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Surface Pro 3 arrived

Paul2660

Well-known member
I also wanted to add:

If you are considering the Surface 3, I would wait a few more months. There is no doubt this product was rushed to market for the fall school purchases.

Compared to my 2, the 3 is less stable, has a shorter battery life, and also errors on reporting said battery life. Once below 30 percent the accuracy gets very poor.

I have had a case open with Microsoft on this for 2 weeks. Net, they want to totally reload the OS on the machine. Which removes everything and brings it back to a as new state. I don't want to do this, because I have already loaded office, (if you have ever tried to get an installation of office to reinstall without 20 support calls, you know what I mean).

The latest firmware (from what I can tell there have been 2 major firmware updates), fixed the wifi issues. However by default Microsoft limits the available power management to only balanced, and gives the user much less control, both when "high performance" or "power saver" times are needed. You can get the 3 to accept this, but I am not sure if in doing so, you are running the hardware as optimally as can be done. If you want to get to the 3 power manage states, I have written how here:

07/09/14 Power Options on Surface Pro-3–How to improve your WiFi Connection with Hyper-V

I believe that Microsoft will get this fixed along with the other problem, with hardware updates, behind the covers, which is typically how this is done anyway. My 2 was purchased at the end of the lifetime curve, is much more stable, and has a BETTER battery life. I have the 8GB 256MB versions of both. The 9 HOUR OF LIFE claims are bogus at least for now. The 3 can't get anywhere close to 9 hours. I have tested it with the specs that Microsoft claims (internet only, with no bluetooth on) screen brightness to totally low, you might get 5 to 6 hours.

When you really think about it, it's not surprising. The 2 has a bit larger battery pack (you can find various websites where they have taken both of them apart) so the 3 was supposedly using a new battery tech, more efficient Lithium cells that weight less and last longer. They may get this done with a hardware refresh to later models.

ALSO, my 3 runs hotter. Most times I run it with the AC plugged in the fan comes on within 15 minutes. If I tether to the Phase One camera, and run in balanced power, after about 10 minutes the fan comes on. The entire unit gets hot to the touch on the upper right back, which must be where the processor is. The 2 will go 30 to 40 minutes before the fan comes on unless I have it out in bright light. The outside heat and humidity in Arkansas right now does not lend itself to extended use of either machine.

One plus, to me the screen of the 3 is excellent, seems easier to read outdoors and for sure makes the use of tethering easier as I prefer the size of the screen, i.e. more a normal ratio, not the more panoramic size of the 2 screen.

Manvex case fits perfectly also.

Paul
 

mmbma

Active member
agree that my pro 3 doesn't get close to 9 hours, using the wifi seems to drain it in 4-5.

but still it's an excellent device. Frankly i didn't notice the above issues until Paul mentioned it. But I'm a computer geek who builds pcs for fun.
 

torger

Active member
I guess this has been asked a zillion of times but it's kind of hard to find the proper answer, so I ask again:

If you have a legacy digital back with firewire connection rather than USB3 and want to shoot tethered with this Surface Pro 3 in the field, is there any not-too-bulky adapter that can be used for this? I assume that the power consumption of the back will be a problem, so the adapter would need some battery?
 

Paul2660

Well-known member
No, there currently is not a firewire to USB3 conversion adapter out there. Some are advertized but they are a high risk to both camera and PC as there is no standard on the voltage being used.

It's a real tragedy IMO as this solution makes a P65+ class back a great solution as the SP3 or 2 works so well for screen preview mode. The actual chip in the P65+ is the same as the one in the 160, and based on my work, not sure that there is much difference between the 160 or 260.

You have to be on a Credo or IQ back for it to work.

If you had a back with a USB2 connection it should work, however much slower speed.

Simple idea, great idea, and it has revolutionized tech camera shooting for me.

Paul
 

kdphotography

Well-known member
Torger--with regard to a Firewire-USB adapter/converter---in a nutshell, it is not possible. The Firewire and USB3 are different protocols. There is some discussion on this in the earlier Surface Pro 2 tethering thread: http://www.getdpi.com/forum/medium-...o-2-enabling-phase-iq-series-credo-mfdbs.html

If Phase One did offer a "upgrade" for older Legacy backs, upgrading and replacing the Firewire card and port with the newer USB3 standard---*wow* this would really breathe some new life into some really great MFDBs. No idea if this would even be possible, even with that special inexpensive price to play here in Dante's Inferno (that's sarcasm btw). But still just the thought....and with the Surface Pro.... ;)

If you have a Firewire MFDB, your best option for tethering on location is a Macbook Pro/Air with Firewire/Thunderbolt.

The Surface Pro is a great tethering on location option. And what a great excuse for you to upgrade to a Credo or IQ series MFDB. :D

Ken
 

miska

Member
So why do you guys like the SP so much better than a Macbook air (11'') ? It seems from the weight and bulk point of view, they are close.
Is the screen better for daylight work ? Or is it the form factor that makes it easier to handle and attach to the tripod ?
I hope it's not one of those "I don't want no stinkin' mac" things :)
 

kdphotography

Well-known member
In short, it's a combination of things including tablet form factor (but with the power of a laptop) and USB3 capability. You can get an idea from my blog review of the Surface Pro 2 and why I think the Surface Pro is a game changer for USB3 enabled MFDBs.

See, Microsoft’s Surface Pro 2: A Game Changer for Phase One IQ Series and Leaf Credo Medium Format Digital Backs | Kendoophotography's Blog

It's definitely not one of those "I don't want no stinkin' mac things"---in fact, I know a few dedicated Mac-users who very reluctantly purchased a Microsoft Surface Pro to accompany their Phase IQ series MFDBs. ;)

And, imho, the IQ2 series MFDBs using it's WiFi coupled with Apple iPad and Capture Pilot pale in comparison to the capability of a MFDB tethered to the Surface Pro. It's not even close. And when comparing Firewire to USB3, USB3 is simply much easier to use. There is no fiddling around; it just works.

The Surface Pro with its touch screen interface is like a natural extension of the IQ MFDB screen. The SP3 adds a slightly larger screen and in a lighter package. What's not to like? :)

Ken
 

Paul2660

Well-known member
There is no Mac that allows you to take the keyboard off. In the field that same keyboard gets in the way and does not allow as streamlined a setup.

I assume Mac will follow up eventually if they see that the Surface 3 and 2 have made a good toehold.

Most of the rest of the products either don't have the necessary horsepower, storage or a keyboard that is removable.

Paul
 

torger

Active member
A compact carriable MFD tethering solution for using in the field is an interesting aspect for many of us tech cam users. It's easier to understand a composition when you see it on a large screen.

For me personally I'd love a compact portable solution to circumvent the really bad screens of most legacy backs (the only backs I can afford) where you can't even check sharpness, which do me is a desirable feature. However as the helpful responders above pointed out it's not possible as the legacy backs have firewire and Surface Pros don't, and there is no working converter on the market.

I don't find Macs being a good solution for me, much too fragile for the type of hiking and various weather conditions I do. The Surface Pro is probably to fragile too, but there's a lot more likely to find robuster units in the Windows world than in the Mac world, but firewire is kind of dead for PCs :-\. So what I'm looking at is staying with the Aptus series for the time being which is the only legacy back that has working sharpness check.
 

torger

Active member
Thanks gerald, interesting unit, seems like it could work. I realize now that I've seen it before... memory is short sometimes :).
 
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kdphotography

Well-known member
Interesting thread this, but why is it on the MF forum?
If you read through the entire thread (as well as the preceding thread with the introduction of the Surface Pro 2 being used with the Phase IQ and Leaf Credo) you'll get a better understanding of why the Surface Pro is a game changer for those tethering on location with USB enabled MFDBs.

It's especially valuable for those using technical cameras and MFDBs, though I've also found it helpful at times using the Phase DF on location as well.

And certainly much more on point than, oh say, discussion about a beta Sony camera app for the Nex 5/6 and adding cute heart-shaped catch lights in the eyes. :rolleyes:

:)Ken
 

Paul2660

Well-known member
The Sahara slate is interesting especially the part about the LCD optimized for outdoor viewing. But I could only see a 4 gb ram max. There may be other models I missed. Aldo did not see a FireWire port.

Paul
 

alajuela

Active member
Beautiful two shots Ken of the Cambo and kit- makes me want to go out and shoot now!! .:thumbup:

Last time i forgot the stylus, makes life difficult :facesmack: - now I have two extras, one lives in my camera bag, the other in the elastic loop. :toocool:

Best

Phil
 

steve_cor

Member
The Sahara slate is interesting especially the part about the LCD optimized for outdoor viewing. But I could only see a 4 gb ram max. There may be other models I missed. Aldo did not see a FireWire port.

Paul
The link takes you to Sahara Slate PC i500 Tablet PCs (1st Generation) which have Firewire 400. But it looks like those have been discontinued.

Would this 6-pin IEEE1394a (Firewire) power a Leaf Aptus back?


The new Sahara Slate PC i500 Tablet PCs (2nd Generation) don't list firewire. These have upgradeable memory, so the included 4.0 GB can be upgraded to 8.0 GB or 16GB.

Looks like they come with 32-bit Windows 7. Capture One Pro 7 requires 64-bit Windows.

As for pricing, the new Sahara Slate PC i575 Intel Core i7-based model starts at US$2,149 (4GB RAM, 500GB HD).


Without Firewire 800 and 64-bit Windows, these will not be what we wanted for tethering.


--Steve.
 

gerald.d

Well-known member
The link takes you to Sahara Slate PC i500 Tablet PCs (1st Generation) which have Firewire 400. But it looks like those have been discontinued.

Would this 6-pin IEEE1394a (Firewire) power a Leaf Aptus back?


The new Sahara Slate PC i500 Tablet PCs (2nd Generation) don't list firewire. These have upgradeable memory, so the included 4.0 GB can be upgraded to 8.0 GB or 16GB.

Looks like they come with 32-bit Windows 7. Capture One Pro 7 requires 64-bit Windows.

As for pricing, the new Sahara Slate PC i575 Intel Core i7-based model starts at US$2,149 (4GB RAM, 500GB HD).


Without Firewire 800 and 64-bit Windows, these will not be what we wanted for tethering.


--Steve.
Steve - why is Firewire 800 required for tethering?

Speaking to Phase One, I think I'm right in saying that all backs prior to the IQ series used 400 (certainly my Achromatic+ does). If you have a back with Firewire 800, then it's IQ series, and therefore also has a USB 3 port, so it's not an issue because you can use the Surface.

The lack of 64-bit Windows would appear to be the deal breaker IF you weren't prepared to use an older version of Capture One for tethering, but what would be the problem with that?

The model linked to can be upgraded to 8GB of RAM, and is listed as still available to "legacy" customers.

Kind regards,


Gerald.
 

Paul2660

Well-known member
Torger's back, the Leaf, only has the firewire connection.

Steve, thanks for the info. I also wonder now for the price point if the 500GB drive is a 2.5 sized normal drive, or solid state. If the later that's a pretty good deal.

Surprised they default to 32 windows however, and do they support the 64ibt OS (drivers).

Paul
 
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