Have used film and now DSLR for many years. I am just a serious amateur and have wanted to try MF for a long time. After reading much of this site I have to ask what would I gain over my present 5D2 or if I had a D800e as the OP on one thread has? I would like to get one foot wet, but not soaked. Looked around on eb and see some Hass 500/503 with dig backs and wonder if that is the way to try MF out and then move up? Any help you may have will be greatly appreciated and I thank you, Jay
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Newbie Asks for Advise
- Thread starter Sabrejet
- Start date
dougpeterson
Workshop Member
What sort of things do you shoot?
What do you love about photography? What do you love about your current camera? What do you want to improve on?
What's the budget you could imagine allocating?
What do you love about photography? What do you love about your current camera? What do you want to improve on?
What's the budget you could imagine allocating?
Landscape, birds, animals, flowers, insects, etc. A little close up/macro. Tried some street. Have never done real portrait. The challenge is producing that elusive perfect image. When you know you got a good one, you feel it. I feel that back in my film days, I went a lot slower, because every press of the shutter cost. With the dslr, they a free. I want to slow down and work on composition when called for. The 5D2 the more I use it, the more I know it. It looks like 20k would get you a good outfit, but do I want to go there yet?
dougpeterson
Workshop Member
The simplest answer is of course to try one out. Where are you located? A forum member might live near enough to arrange a get together or you might have a dealer close by you at which you could try some of the options. We also have a few people a year who fly to NYC from places without a good dealer network to try out several systems.
20k will get you a good medium format kit. Whether it will do what you want it to do, or be a good fit for you is a fairly involved question. Landscape and still life are ideal realms for medium format. Birds and insects a bit less so, though there are some medium format shooters doing them.
Likely with the range of subject matter you mention a medium format system will not be the best tool for all of them. So you'd still want a dSLR for those subjects which are better served by a 35mm dSLR. Would you be okay adding a medium format system and having both, rather than attempting to replace your current camera?
20k will get you a good medium format kit. Whether it will do what you want it to do, or be a good fit for you is a fairly involved question. Landscape and still life are ideal realms for medium format. Birds and insects a bit less so, though there are some medium format shooters doing them.
Likely with the range of subject matter you mention a medium format system will not be the best tool for all of them. So you'd still want a dSLR for those subjects which are better served by a 35mm dSLR. Would you be okay adding a medium format system and having both, rather than attempting to replace your current camera?
Here's another thought, why not get a nice medium format camera and shoot film? Sounds to me like you'd enjoy shooting film again, and if you buy the right camera you could even get a digital back in the future if you absolutely want to go that route. But starting with film and see if that scratches the itch might be a good way to start. I'm shooting more film than digital these days, even though I have both digital backs and DSLRs.
Shashin
Well-known member
Well, you can do all that with MF, but I would choose the system carefully. Research cameras and lenses. It probably will not be a Hasselblad 500 series camera. Pentax probably has the most flexible system at the moment.
GregMO
Member
Mamiya 645AFD (versions 1, 2 & 3) are hybrid cameras & accept both digital & film backs. Features, compatible lenses & digital backs may vary.
Kits start around $600. Www.keh.com
You can always resell for about what you paid if you don't like it.
If you have no local film developing labs in your area there are plenty to mail out for processing.
Don Libby
Well-known member
I do a lot of landscape and wildlife with my camera. Landscape is easy as it generally doesn't move. Macro is also easy so long as I have it locked down on a tripod. The real fun begins with wildlife or other things that move around and in general refuse to stand still and pose. The one draw back to medium format is the slow and sometime inaccurate ability to focus - however that can be overcome with practice.
I began using medium format film and the first trip I had was to FL where I shot a combination of sunset and birds. Film isn't dead and is a cheap way to get into medium format. Warning here is that once you crack the medium format door you can easily become a junky and the next step is digital. I'd research local camera store to make certain they can still handle medium format film. If they do and can both develop and scan it it just might help make your mind up.
The other option is to bypass film and go directly into digital using one of the great sponsors on this forum that have a location in FL. Set up a visit to do a test run. There's a lot of great used values out there.
In the end which system you use is a personal thing. What works best for be may not for you; just like what feels better in my hands might not in yours.
Good luck to you.
I began using medium format film and the first trip I had was to FL where I shot a combination of sunset and birds. Film isn't dead and is a cheap way to get into medium format. Warning here is that once you crack the medium format door you can easily become a junky and the next step is digital. I'd research local camera store to make certain they can still handle medium format film. If they do and can both develop and scan it it just might help make your mind up.
The other option is to bypass film and go directly into digital using one of the great sponsors on this forum that have a location in FL. Set up a visit to do a test run. There's a lot of great used values out there.
In the end which system you use is a personal thing. What works best for be may not for you; just like what feels better in my hands might not in yours.
Good luck to you.
Shashin
Well-known member
Hybrid film/digital systems would include Hasselblad V and H, Mamiya 645, Pentax 645, Alpa, Arca Swiss, and Linhof. But like Greg pointed out, you need to do a bit of research. I think the only thing that would tempt me in film would be 6x6 or panoramic systems. Film handling and scanning can wear out the novelty of film. When film and processing is easily and cheaply available, it is not bad, but when that becomes a hurdle, then it makes too much inertia.
Don Libby
Well-known member
I agree with Will, the only thing that would bring me back to film is a pano camera or large format and only if I could keep total control over developing it as I do with digital but that would require a wet dark room, a place I haven't visited in decades.
But the pano camera is tempting.....
But the pano camera is tempting.....
GregMO
Member
I agree with both Will & Don that if high volume comes into play, film gets old very fast. On the other hand if you are going for a select few shots per outing, the entry into film with a hybrid camera is pretty cheap way to test the waters.
Also, 645 is small in the film world. 617 is great for panos. LF is very nice, but a is completely different experience.
Also, 645 is small in the film world. 617 is great for panos. LF is very nice, but a is completely different experience.
I use a Mamiya rz67, Hasselblad 501cm, and Rolleiflex 3.5F with film. I also have a Mamiya 645AFD that I use strictly with a digital back, I can also mount the DB to my rz67 Pro IID which is my favorite camera by far. It's got a huge 6x7 negative, beautiful bright finder and it's very versatile thanks to the bellows focusing. The only downside is the weight, but I personally find it very manageable.
As far as development and scanning goes I send it out, there are plenty of good and relatively cheap lab options, especially in the states. Here's a couple of them...
Indie Film Lab
Blue Moon Camera and Machine | Cameras, Typewriters, and Film Processing | Portland, Oregon, USA
Richard Photo Lab
North Coast Photographic Services
Digital Printing | Large Format Graphics | Design Services | Duggal New York
I have checked out the rz67 7 645AFD on ebay and find some nice ones.
Just a slight change of thought. I have read a lot of the threads and follow ups on this page. I do not know if I am correct with my observation, but I feel the majority by far, refer to Phase One/Mamiya. Is there a reason that is so few references to Hasselblad? Talked to a pro last week that was selling his H4D because he did not need it any more. His 5D3 was all he needed.???
Jay
Just a slight change of thought. I have read a lot of the threads and follow ups on this page. I do not know if I am correct with my observation, but I feel the majority by far, refer to Phase One/Mamiya. Is there a reason that is so few references to Hasselblad? Talked to a pro last week that was selling his H4D because he did not need it any more. His 5D3 was all he needed.???
Jay
Shashin
Well-known member
Most members have Phase systems here.
That is probably a good choice for him and his work. But how does that relate to anyone else?
iiiNelson
Well-known member
I'm not a MF expert by any means but I will speak from my research experience of looking into possible MF systems for my needs.
First thing I will say is to try out as many of the systems as possible. Look at sample images and see how the rendering appeals to you. Read as many reviews and anecdotal accounts as possible. Take it all with a grain of salt as presences are very subjective but the education into the pros/ cons as well as potential problems go a long way into being an educated consumer.
What's your digital workflow like? Cameras under the Phase One Umbrella work best and are designed to be used with Capture One. Hasselblad Cameras are designed with a Phocus + Lightroom workflow. Pentax and Leica work well with most of your standard RAW converters that aren't Capture One or Phocus. Ask yourself if you're comfortable with potentially switching RAW converters... I'm not. Having a great and responsive dealer BEYOND THE POINT OF SALE seems to also be an important factor.
So cameras I've tried out so far are the Pentax 645D, 645Z briefly, and a few MF Film cameras. The 645D was definitely nice although shutter shake is very prominent on longer lenses when not on a tripod. The 645Z was easier to hand hold an vastly more responsive for a person coming from 35mm systems. Between the two I'd go 645Z and maybe get a 645D for back up if peace of mind is needed. When the local dealer gets another Leica S in I will try that as well. I also wouldn't mind trying a Hasselblad either as I really like the look and skin tones I've seen out the camera. True focus seems like a great feature for slower studio and portrait work. Regarding Phase One, they makes a great digital back... Possibly the most advanced technically. Capture One Software eliminates the possibility of me ever owning a Phase system. I just don't like Capture One after trying it out again recently and prefer to remain working in Adobe software - that's all personal preference. It's not a slight to the capability of the camera but it comes down to personal choice.
Photokina is around the corner so there will probably be new announcements coming which means some newer gear will be offloaded soon after for more reasonable prices. Get out there and test and rent what you can though.
dougpeterson
Workshop Member
All modern Phase One backs are supported in LightRoom, so if you want a P1 back you can use LR if that's your preference, including for tethering via the hot-folder option.
My understanding from your comments on other threads is you've never done any formal instruction on Capture One. It has one of the larger learning curves, but it's very popular amongst digital techs, rental houses, and major production studios as well as many quality-oriented individual photographers.
We include Capture One training with every digital back sale and if learning the software is an obstacle to your considering the equipment I'm sure we could arrange for some free training to help you get the most out of the software as part of your evaluation.
Wandering around C1 without training can be a bit painful. But with even a bit of "here's what they were thinking" overview the overwhelming majority of our clients find it pretty straightforward.
This is my personal advice. This is what I did. I waited. 20K can give you a reasonable system that is currently out of date and will be even more so 2 yrs down the line. I'm not sure you would want to go film. If you did, you would have already. There is one exception here: using Velvia for landscaping. Except for the IQ180, nothing beats or comes close to Velvia and 8x10 or even 5x4. Now that is a completely different ballgame.
Coming to your question and situation: "I am just a serious amateur and have wanted to try MF for a long time". Its a bit like getting introduced to alcohol.
You can either try a run of the mill brew, or try the best available port or malt. The first one might grab you by the senses initially, but when you collect more experience, you will really begin to understand greatness of the second.
So my advice is to wait if you are considering a digital back. Today, if my budget was close to 20K, I would consider waiting a few months and then considering a Leica S system ( expected to drop to 15K body only by Sept when a new model is rumoured to be announced ).
Coming to your question and situation: "I am just a serious amateur and have wanted to try MF for a long time". Its a bit like getting introduced to alcohol.
You can either try a run of the mill brew, or try the best available port or malt. The first one might grab you by the senses initially, but when you collect more experience, you will really begin to understand greatness of the second.
So my advice is to wait if you are considering a digital back. Today, if my budget was close to 20K, I would consider waiting a few months and then considering a Leica S system ( expected to drop to 15K body only by Sept when a new model is rumoured to be announced ).
That makes a lot of sense to me. I think I have come to the conclusion, the normal MF cameras are really best suited for the studio and they produce big files. The reviews I have read and the one Leica dealer I talked to, indicate the S is like holding a 35mm. I will find a dealer and go see one.
Jay
Jay