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Goodbye digital back, Hello analog film (for now)

richardman

Well-known member
Ray, if you are interested in a 617 camera, just get a Shenhao 617. Then you can have a "lightweight" kit with a 4x5 and a 617 and they share the same lens!

(that's what I have but truth be told, I have not taken both cameras out together yet. Hmm...)
 

Grayhand

Well-known member
The Shenhao 617 is a beautiful camera.

But as a brocken record, I just repeat the same thing :D
I can not use a camera with bellow on the windy beach!

I just got back from a sunset on the beach that I photographed with my two Mamiya 6.
And I was hanging on to the tripod in the wind so the camera would not blow over..

So maybe a 6x17 made of concrete :confused:

Ray
 

satybhat

Member
This is an interesting proposition. In an earlier thread, I was wondering about panoramic film formats and the equipment and surprisingly found that MFD ( IQ280) cropped is currently sufficient enough to give me the print sizes needed ( upto 3m long side ).

However,

I have been trialling 35mm film again and some of the bird shots made with velvia and ektar still have the ability to make my jaw drop. In regards to this, I wonder if you have thought of how exactly you are going to digitize your film ?

Just wondering whether the setup (Lightbox + MFD + macro lens + stitching ) would compare favourably to commercial Flextight X1 / X5 scans.....
 

richardman

Well-known member
Ray, sorry, missed that post :)

OK, I did own a Fotoman 617 for 3 months. It was good for what it does. The camera is big of course, but it's the lenscones that are bigger. I sold it and got the SH PTB617. There is no advantage to the Fotoman except for the stability.

Like yourself, I have a metal 4x5 for "windy" work, although mine is the Gaoersi, not the Dayi. I have not done much long exposure as I would like, so it has not been used much, but I'd highly recommend Gaoersi if the specs suit you.

And no, a 612 won't do. If you think you need/want a 617, getting a 612 will just cause you to wonder "ah darn, if only I have that extra 5cm..." besides, you can crop to a 612 with a 4x5 :-O

It's true that it's much more difficult to sell used film equipments now so it's a gamble.

For scanning 617 (and 4x5), I just use my V700. It should not have problems with up to 2m long. 3m you may want to drum scan it.
 

GregMO

Member
For select images, I send my film to Lenny Eiger for drum scanning. He uses an Aztek Premier.
An 8000 dpi scan will yield a 617 image with roughly 17k x 52k pixels which is 6gb file. Only a few scanners on the market will optically scan up to 8000 dpi tho.
Remember, not all scanner operators are equal & it takes skill to pull out all of the detail in film.

Here is a scanner comparison you might find interesting:
Collaborative Large Format Scanner Comparison
 
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Grayhand

Well-known member
The reason I is hoping for a 6X12 is the smaller format :)
But I do have a Sinar Zoom roll film holder that I use for 6X12 on my 4X5.
Kludgy, but it works.

I do my scanning on my Epson V700 with adjustable film holder and anti newton glass.
That combination let me print 1X1 meter from Mamiya 6 photos.
So 1x2 meters would be no problem from a 6x12, and from a 6X17.. :D

I am now thinking about the Plustek 120 scanner that would let me scan up to 6X12.
It seems to have a bit more resolution compared to my Epson V700.

I have forbidden my self to think about drum scanners, I really do not need such a apparatus in my life.
Seems to be some thing that would cost me a lot of time.
And I have enough of that kind of stuff already!

But maybe I should try to send some negatives to be scanned on a drum scanner.
To se for my self how much extra detail I would get?

Ray
 

MartinN

Well-known member
I am lucky to have first bought the Epson V700 and soon also the Plustek OpticFilm 120. In my scientific mind I wanted to measure the performance of my scanners so eventually I ordered the USAF 1951 from Silverfast. The results from my measurements are : V700 at wide transparency (8x10)- Useful 2000-2100 dpi, V700 filmholder (35mm-120-4x5) 2400-2600dpi and Plustek Opticfilm useful 3900-4300dpi. But these results are from the sharpest possible film - probably Lith film - not everyday film and certainly no color film. So in the real world I can not get this much detail on my pictures on normal film. To be sure I use 3200dpi on V700 and 4000dpi on the OF120 not to loose any detail, but the real pictorial detail is probably about 2000dpi. Thats the downside of film and scanners. Getting it all on film isn't easy.:thumbup:
 

Leigh

New member
A good decision, Ray (IMO).

I shoot film in 35mm (Nikon), 6x6 (Hasselblad), 4x5, 5x7, and 8x10 formats.

Permit me to suggest Fuji Neopan Acros black-and-white film.

It's made in all those formats except 5x7, and only in 100 speed.
We can't get 8x10 here in the States, but perhaps you can over there.

Acros is an absolutely amazing film with very fine grain, excellent shadow detail, beautiful gray scale, and wide exposure latitude.
It's impossible to block up the highlights, particularly when developed in a compensating developer.

Good luck with your efforts. Please let us see some of them.

- Leigh
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
Acros is my preferred B&W film, especially for long exposures due to it's almost lack of reciprocity failure and 12 stop DR. That said, Portra 400 is my preferred film, especially in MF or LF, since it has DR that my poor IQ260 can only dream of. :D
 

Leigh

New member
I forgot to mention Acros' almost total lack of reciprocity failure.

No compensation is required at exposures up to 120 seconds, and only +1/2 stop up to 1,000 seconds.

- Leigh
 

MartinN

Well-known member
Now, this website seems to be a bit "Plustek unfriendly", but the Braun does get a very positive review:
Yes indeed :D, this german site got something stuck in the throat when reviewing the Plustek OpticFilm 120. They stated that OF120 is slow and this is a problem with Silverfast on PC not a feature of the OF 120. I have a Mac Mini (4core ) and it is fast as a storm breeze(so just pair it with a mac). Then i measured the resolution and got really higher performance than the quoted site, they probably had a mis aligned sample from the first production batch. In my opinion the Plustek OpticFilm 120 is the gold standard for home scanning. I would not buy a Braun or Pacific or Reflecta or fork out for a Hasselblad.

Martin
 

MartinN

Well-known member
I have been experimenting with the most unfriendly film and also one of the most amazing films around for 4x5 : Rollei ATO 2.1 (advanced technical ortho;)).
It needs special low contrast development like Kodak TechPan.
I bought quite many sheets of this superfilm from Macodirect and now they are Out of stock :D

Edit: Grain - not to be found !!!
 

Grayhand

Well-known member
MartinN
That was impressive result with the Plustek 120!

What made a substantial differens with my Epson 700 was the use of film holders that I could adjust the height of.
It is a bit of a lottery when the Scanner don’t have a autofocus system!
So I am happy with the Epson 700 för 4X5 or bigger, there it is no problem to print big from those scans.

But it is from 6X6 and up, I want a bit more detail. And it is there I am a bit suspicious about the Plustek scanner because it is not autofocus.
That means that I am back in the lottery department regarding the individual exemplar I get of the scanner!

The info about the Braun scanner was new to me. Thanks Jorgen :thumbup:
I did like the fact that it had auto focus!
But as always, I need to do a little bit more investigation regarding scanners.

But interesting things happens with multi-scanning.
One way is to: Scan, tap the scanner lightly, rescan, and then use PTgui to combine scans for higher resolutions.
The simple test I made got me better result than multipas in the scanner. But I will do more tests.

Film, it is like paper for your ink printer :D
You can work with them all and drive your self crazy, or stick with a few and really learn them.

I mostly use Porta 160 and 400 + Ektar for medium format and 4X5 for C41
Regarding E6 I am still testing what I will stick with.
I dont shoot much black and white. But I have a lot of Shanghai 100iso B/W film from 120 to 8X10. and maybe 800 sheets go 8X10 X-ray film…

I will put up some film example later. This is the last of my 4 week here on the island.
And it been the worst 4 weeks in the last 11 years I been here :eek:
Not ONE really good sunset. Lots of heavy clouds and rain in the west that blocks the sun. But next year…

Soon it is time to go visit Söderåsen nature reserve and the beech forest there in the fall!!!

Ray
 

SHV

Member
+"What made a substantial differens with my Epson 700 was the use of film holders that I could adjust the height of."
******
I found the same improvement with aftermarket film holders. To my eye, there wasn't a major difference between scanning 6 x 6 with the Epson or my Nikon 9000ED.

Steve
 

MartinN

Well-known member
That means that I am back in the lottery department regarding the individual exemplar I get of the scanner!
Yes, I was optimistic or completely MAD to be one of the first persons to buy an Opticfilm 120 in Europe. But I was lucky and my suspicions went away after I had confirmed my scanner to provide at least 4000dpi of resolution.

The problem with autofocus is that you have to set it once and it can't anyhow follow a curved film. I don't need it and am perfectly happy with fixed focus and set aperture.

And yes, I have the betterscanning holder for V700 and ANR glass, but the Nyquist theorem - 6400dpi scanning resolution can never quite reach more than 3200dpi of resolved detail. Anyhow !
 

Grayhand

Well-known member
Yes Graham, that is the holder I have and the ANR glass!
I have the same experience that they are simple to adjust.

My simple workflow is to take a negativ of Shanghai developed in R09 under constant agitation = Grain!
Then I scan and if I can not clearly see grain in the scan, then there is something wrong with the scanner/film holder.
It has nothing to do with the camera or lenses or tripod or...

But that I should reach the promised resolution in my Epson V700, that I have never believed :D

Ray
 

MartinN

Well-known member
I got a few rolls of 120 Shanghai and was seriously disappointed with the coating of my films. They all had some 'blotchy' structure that was severe with overdevelopment and overexposure and almost acceptable otherwise but I decided not to use Chinese film anymore. I also got 5 rolls of 'Lucky' as a gift, but I should have known better than to beleive somebody giving avay something for free - They were all defect 120 rolls- no taping and the film was not coiling up uptake spool. Of course the were all completely useless.

Maybe I change my mind if nothing else is available in the future:confused:
 

Grayhand

Well-known member
I read a lot of negative comment about the Shanghai film brand.

But I have not really had any problem!
Just some "pin point" loss of emulsions on a few rolls.
But it is no more problem that cloning out dust on the film from the scanning!

I bought couple of hundreds roll of 120 film and maybe 150 sheets of 4x5 and a few packages of 8X10.
And I bought it because it was cheap! Real cheap when I bought it. So for the price it works brilliant for me.
It was little less than a US dollar at the time per roll!

But I also have a lot of old E6 film, like close to 10 years old, that work perfect for me.

I got more "hang up´s" about content than media or technical details.

So I really like old and cheap film :D

Ray
 
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