23mm HR guidance

[jagsiva]

Jim,

I use the 23HR and 32HR on an Arca RM3Di. Mostly used with an IQ180, but also used it on a 260 Achromat.

23HR - much smaller. Can mange a couple of degrees of tilt and a couple of mm of shift. Shift is useful purely for composition, not really an option for stitching. You can get some nasty flare in the middle of the image in the form of a red blob. When care is taken to avoid this, the lens is fantastic. It is very sharp and of course, as wide as you can go short of the 17 TSE. CPL vignettes a little when used with the CF. Alone is OK.

32HR - A real monster and even bigger with the 105mm CF. Some have complained about lenses getting decentered on transport or in the bag, but I have not experienced this. Supports shifts of +/- 15mm. I love the perspective, and gives a horizontal FoV close to the 23HR when stitched. Works fine with CPL (upto 10mm +/-) and ND filters. This could be my all time favorite lens in any format. It is also super sharp.

I also have the 40HR, but use the 32HR far more. Only times I take the 40HR is if I want something a little more compact than the 32HR.

I think the 32HR is much more versatile than the 23HR. This may be too much of a change than you're looking for, but you could replace both your lenses with a 32HR and SK60XL. Adding an SK120ASPH or Rodie 90HR-SW would give you 3 lenses with huge image circles. As for sharpness all 3 are as good as I have seen.

Let me know if you want some RAW files, just PM me a drop site.

23HR

32HR +/- 15mm LR stitched

IQ180|32HR|CF|2-frame flat-stitch, 15mm L/R shift in Landscape|6mm fall|All processing in C1, Stitching in PS CC[/QUOTE]

Cheers...

 

[voidshatter]

May I please ask if anyone uses a solid ND (not graduated) filter in this combination and if so which one(s) ? As far as I understand it the Lee Series 100 3, 6 and 10 stop filters are too small (100x100mm) and the Series 150 filters are too big (with no solid ND filters in that range). Series 100 Graduated ND's are of course not a problem.

Any suggestions/ideas ? Or am I barking up the wrong tree ?

There's also the wide angle lens hood as explained by Graham but this has to be CF-less and likely noisy in darker areas when the LLC is applied.

I have tested vignetting of two types of 100x100mm ND filters, i.e. the Lee Big Stopper (10-stop) and the Singh-Ray 15-stop Mor Slo.

With the practical dynamic range of the IQ260, the center filter (CF) is a must for me to have when I do long exposure shots during day time, otherwise the vignetting is beyond repair.

The center filter of the 23HR is 95mm in diameter, which is fully compatible with the Lee push-on filter holder.

Unfortunately if the sun is above or behind the camera, both the Lee Big Stopper and the Singh-Ray 15-stop Mor Slo suffer from light leakage issues. For such reason, a screw-in 95mm ND filter is a lot more reliable. I use a Heliopan 95mm ND 3.0 (10-stop) under the sun. Singh-Ray now also makes 5/10/15-stop screw-in ND filters of 95mm (available in thin mount). Stacking the Lee push-on filter holder outside a screw-in ND filter (thin mount) outside the center filter of 23HR would cause a darkened band on one side of the picture unless one layer of the filter holder is removed (i.e. only one layer remains), which would suffice in accommodating one ND Grad (such like the Lee 0.9 ND Grad, or the Singh-Ray 0.9 reversed).

Luckily, for sunrise and sunset, with the Lee Little Stopper (6-stop) + 0.9 ND Grad + center filter I am usually able to get exposure time to about 2-4 minutes at f8-11, without going past the diffraction limit at the cost of loss of sharpness. As far as I am aware, this setup has no issue of light leakage. It is recommended that you take an LCC shot with the ND grad so that life is easier correcting the color cast of the ND grad.

 

[jagsiva]

And on the issue of filters, here is the 32HR and what it behaves like with CF/ND/CPL

32HR on ARCA RM3Di
IQ180 in landscape orientation
CF - 105mm Rodenstock CF for 32HR
CP - 105mm Heliopan multi-coated Slim (used with 86mm step up ring when used without CF)
ND - 105mm Heliopan 3 stop multi-coated slim (used with 86mm step up ring when used without CF)

Imported into C1 adjusted exposure to match and just a simple screen capture to show here.

1. *No filters - 15mm L/R Shift

2. *CF Only - 15mm L/R Shift

3. *CF + ND - 10mm L/R Shift

4. *CF + ND - 15mm L/R Shift

5. *CF+ CP - 15mm L/R Shift

6. *ND Only - 15mm L/R Shift

7. *CP Only - 15mm L/R Shift

 

[jagsiva]

Now with LCC and WB corrections in C1:

1. *No filters - 15mm L/R Shift

2. *CF Only - 15mm L/R Shift

3. *CF + ND - 10mm L/R Shift

4. *CF + ND - 15mm L/R Shift

5. *CF+ CP - 15mm L/R Shift

6. *ND Only - 15mm L/R Shift

7. *CP Only - 15mm L/R Shift

 

[Paul2660]

Jagsiva:

Thanks for the posts with the LCC's.

As much as I would love the 32mm, your posts point out just how limited it is on shifts with the CF installed and a CLPL, which I use a lot around water.

As I recall the 32CF outer is 112mm? or 105mm, I can't remember now, but with either a CLPL is not very "slim".

Have you shot the 32mm much without the CF or are the shifted sides, just too dark and noisy to recover with an LCC.

The weight and delicate nature of the 32 also has kept me away, did I mention the price?

I love the 40mm for what it can do, and more than likely would save a bit more for a 32mm if it was a bit more filter friendly. On your shots where you show the CF and CP you are losing about 5mm or of image on the 15mm shift due to the hard vignetting.

I have noticed that even the 40 on 15mm shifts can be a bit noisy, even at iso 50 with a IQ260 or 160, especially in the summer with outdoor temps at around 95 degrees and 99% humidity, not the best conditions for a CCD back.

Paul

 

[GrahamWelland]

Just when I thought I was done with spending money on my Alpa outfit for a while ... time to bite the bullet I fear and get that CF for the 23HR after all. The vignette drop off without it is ok in most well lit scenarios but it is seriously limiting at times in post when the light levels are low.

Oh well. There goes more $$

 

[jagsiva]

Paul,

The 32HR CF is 105mm on the outside. The CPL I have is a slimmest MC Heliopan, and yes it does vignette with the CF + CPL. Without the CF you can make it work, but as you say, the corners will be a little darker, or you pay with a little noise in the corners.

Having said that, I do find the 32HR quite usable without the CF.

With the CPL + CF, I would say you do lose about 5mm of shift. So you can go +/- 10mm.

An interesting note on C1 and LCC -- I find that if you hit the hard vignette on a shift, you are prone to banding when you apply the LCC. So still best to stay within the limit.

On the issue of price, I think mine has only appreciated in value, especially when you compare it to the bath you take on a MFDB At the very least, it is a good story for my wife.

 

[jagsiva]

Just when I thought I was done with spending money on my Alpa outfit for a while ... time to bite the bullet I fear and get that CF for the 23HR after all. The vignette drop off without it is ok in most well lit scenarios but it is seriously limiting at times in post when the light levels are low.

Oh well. There goes more $$

Graham, I'd try one out first, it could just be me, but I find the lens even more finicky with flaring with the CF. Again this is highly context dependent on where the light is coming from.

On a positive note, the same filter goes on the Rodie 28mm so you can dollar-cost-average your CF if you get that lens as well

 

[stephengilbert]

Dollar cost average.

 

[jagsiva]

May I please ask if anyone uses a solid ND (not graduated) filter in this combination and if so which one(s) ? As far as I understand it the Lee Series 100 3, 6 and 10 stop filters are too small (100x100mm) and the Series 150 filters are too big (with no solid ND filters in that range). Series 100 Graduated ND's are of course not a problem.

Any suggestions/ideas ? Or am I barking up the wrong tree ?

There's also the wide angle lens hood as explained by Graham but this has to be CF-less and likely noisy in darker areas when the LLC is applied.

Take a look at at these guys. Not cheap, but are supposed to be high-quality glass filters. Come in 100x100, 127x127 and other sizes.

Hitech ProStop IRND Glass Filter Kits

I looked into them initially, but ended up going with 105mm screw-in filters in the end, just a little more idiot proof for my use cases.

 

[stngoldberg]

Jagsiva:

Thanks for the posts with the LCC's.

As much as I would love the 32mm, your posts point out just how limited it is on shifts with the CF installed and a CLPL, which I use a lot around water.

As I recall the 32CF outer is 112mm? or 105mm, I can't remember now, but with either a CLPL is not very "slim".

Have you shot the 32mm much without the CF or are the shifted sides, just too dark and noisy to recover with an LCC.

The weight and delicate nature of the 32 also has kept me away, did I mention the price?

I love the 40mm for what it can do, and more than likely would save a bit more for a 32mm if it was a bit more filter friendly. On your shots where you show the CF and CP you are losing about 5mm or of image on the 15mm shift due to the hard vignetting.

I have noticed that even the 40 on 15mm shifts can be a bit noisy, even at iso 50 with a IQ260 or 160, especially in the summer with outdoor temps at around 95 degrees and 99% humidity, not the best conditions for a CCD back.

Paul

I have not found the 32mm Rodie to be delicate, although I handle it carefully like any other lens. I always use Cf and take an LCC.
Stanley

 

[Paul2660]

I have found that the Lee 6 stop (little stopper) works very well with my shooting, at times it does tend to a cast to the image, but it does help to hold the light down.

Schneider now is shipping an excellent series of ND 100 x 100 glass filters, that are 4mm, instead of the 2mm of the Lee's.

I have the 6 stop Schneider and so far it's showing to be an excellent solution. This is the Schneider 4 x 4 Platinum IRND filter.

You will have light leak issues as pointed out by other posters, but I have found I can get around most of this with a cover over the rig.

The Schneider fits in a standard Lee holder, with a 4mm slot. I have a Lee standard holder that takes a 2mm and 4mm slot. This works OK so far.

The Schneider filters do have an IR coating, Lee states they have an IR reduction but many folks seem to feel that quite a bit of IR pollution gets through on the longer shots.

Lee also has a glass 0.9 and 0.6 2mm series of ND filters that I use in my work, for shorter exposures that do an excellent job, but scratch very easily.

Paul

 

[jotloob]

I have found that the Lee 6 stop (little stopper) works very well with my shooting, at times it does tend to a cast to the image, but it does help to hold the light down.
. . . .
Paul

Paul
What digital back do you use ? ? ?
I use the CFV-39 and CFV-50 and get a strong blue cast on both backs , when using the LEE 6 stop , little stopper . This cast can not be satisfactorily corrected .
I now have the equivalent filter from HAIDA , 100x100 glas , and the HELIOPAN screw in filter and both filters give an almost neutral image . The remaining cast is corrected by LCC processing .

I found this to be true for my HR DIGARON-S 28mm , HR DIGARON-W 40mm as well as for HASSELBLAD lenses .

If someone should be interested in the LEE ND 1.8 (little stopper) and a LEE ND 0.9 ( both glas 100x100 , as new ) send me a PM . I will give these away for a song before I throw them away .

 

[Paul2660]

I have used the Lee 6 stop on the IQ260 and the big stopper on the IQ160. I should qualify my longest exposures with either have been 20 to 30 second shots.

I see a bit of a blue cast on the shots taken with the Lee stoppers but so far nothing I can't correct.

Paul

 

[jotloob]

Thank you Paul .

 

[MILESF]

Take a look at at these guys. Not cheap, but are supposed to be high-quality glass filters. Come in 100x100, 127x127 and other sizes.

Hitech ProStop IRND Glass Filter Kits

I looked into them initially, but ended up going with 105mm screw-in filters in the end, just a little more idiot proof for my use cases.

Jagsiva, I think I'm heading in the same direction. Thanks for the suggestion though.

 

[MILESF]

Heliopan 5 stop ND 'slim' 95mm filter ordered and in the post.

 

[jimban]

Hi-

Again, thanks for your help. Thanks Jag and voidshatter for the examples and LCCs.

jim

 

[jotloob]

Take a look at at these guys. Not cheap, but are supposed to be high-quality glass filters. Come in 100x100, 127x127 and other sizes.

Hitech ProStop IRND Glass Filter Kits

I looked into them initially, but ended up going with 105mm screw-in filters in the end, just a little more idiot proof for my use cases.

The glas Hitech ProStop IRND uses , seems to be the very same glas Schneider uses for their ND filters . It is SCHOTT glas 4mm .
They also have very similar prices .

 

[[email protected]]

Hi, just wanted to show how I use the HR23 with CF and Lee WA lens hood. I can extend the hood about 30 mm before it starts vignetting. Off topic a little hint how to fix a Surface tablet totally secure to the tripod.

Kind regards

Wolfgang