Leica S replacement at Photokina

[peterv]

David F. says that this sensor might be based on one in the M240, but the new processing engine has improved noise performance. Perhaps it will also improve colour? Fingers crossed.

Furthermore, I just read the LFI article about the new S, and they say the S sensor is based on the M240 sensor, but newly developed with the experience from the M240. So fingers crossed, indeed ...

 

[anGy]

Depth of field indication is also very nice, live view with focus peaking, AF point & spot meter anywhere also very cool.
3,5i/s + better iso than the M, this 007 starts growing on me....
But as you said, color separation & rendering remain to be checked.

 

[tjv]

Yes, max long exposure time currently would be a problem for me, too. Hasselblad just did a good job with their 50c update and getting rid of the need for a dark frame...

 

[tjv]

I was thinking today that people have been saying that the S system lens line up is "complete". For my purposes, this is probably true. But don't others desire something like a 90–250mm zoom, or longer primes in the area of 200 - 300mm?

 

[RVB]

I was thinking today that people have been saying that the S system lens line up is "complete". For my purposes, this is probably true. But don't others desire something like a 90–250mm zoom, or longer primes in the area of 200 - 300mm?

And a wide TS lens.. a 30 or 35..

 

[tjv]

Haha, you read my mind!!! I can't imagine better lenses to add than a series of tilt-shifts, especially now the S has live view.

 

[stephan_w]

I was also a bit shocked by what Leica suggested to us S users. To little, to late.

On the other hand:

For a major improvement of resolution, we should have seen something upwards from 60 mb, which makes the handling of the files slow and heavy, even with powerfull hardware. So why not stick at the current 37 mp?

Added higher ISO would add much more versatility to the System. I have often situations, where I run out of light, especially with longer lenses. So a CMOS is not bad per se. I'm just a bit disapointed about the limit of 6400 ISO, which sounds a bit conservative. But we have to see results to judge this.

My biggest concern is the price. I was hoping for something a bit more democratic, so it would be possible to add the new camera while keeping the old one as backup. But at the new price, I think I will either look for a second used one, or wait till prices drop in some years.

For me the point is the following: I actually use the Sony A7r as backup/walkaround camera, and with the 55/1.8 and at higher ISO it is so good, that I don't miss anything else. A high resolution/high ISO camera would have given me some sleepless nights, but actually I'm very fine as it is.

 

[fotografz]

I was also a bit shocked by what Leica suggested to us S users. To little, to late.

On the other hand:

For a major improvement of resolution, we should have seen something upwards from 60 mb, which makes the handling of the files slow and heavy, even with powerfull hardware. So why not stick at the current 37 mp?

Added higher ISO would add much more versatility to the System. I have often situations, where I run out of light, especially with longer lenses. So a CMOS is not bad per se. I'm just a bit disapointed about the limit of 6400 ISO, which sounds a bit conservative. But we have to see results to judge this.

My biggest concern is the price. I was hoping for something a bit more democratic, so it would be possible to add the new camera while keeping the old one as backup. But at the new price, I think I will either look for a second used one, or wait till prices drop in some years.

For me the point is the following: I actually use the Sony A7r as backup/walkaround camera, and with the 55/1.8 and at higher ISO it is so good, that I don't miss anything else. A high resolution/high ISO camera would have given me some sleepless nights, but actually I'm very fine as it is.

I agree with you, and I say that from the perspective of moving "down res" from a Hasselblad H4D-60.

I was using the S2P and H4D/60 concurrently for a few years, and used the Hasselblad less and less as my work demands changed. I found that the 60 meg FF-645 was less useful for many projects that the S2 handled just fine, including paying product table-top assignments that I did with the 60 meg back just because I had it, not because I needed it.

I recently picked up a new S(006) for half the price of the new CMOS S camera which I'm sure will be fine or even necessary for many, but not for me since the high ISO aspect has never been an issue with the S or any other camera I use … I simply do not like the high ISO results on anything I've seen to date including the A7/A7R, M(240), and some other highly touted lower light options. It's just a matter of personal preference.

Plus I have my shooting and PP technique down on the S CCD camera and want to maintain consistency and continuity with my previous S works.

So, I have three years of new warranty coverage while the CMOS is sorted out and any other possible fixes or updates that may happen.

- Marc

 

[peterv]

I cross-posted this on a few Leica S related forums hoping to read how other Leica S users feel about the new camera.


Now that Photokina-storm is behind us and we’ve all had a little more time to let everything sink in, here are some of my thoughts and questions (to Leica) on the new S. The more I think about it, the more I like the new camera, but I have some questions/suggestions. The final version is still at least 6 months away, so I guess there’s enough time for the design team to sit down and evaluate some of the feedback from potential customers.

This write up by David Farkas is quite interesting:

» Photokina 2014: Day 2 – Everything you need to know about the Leica S (Typ 007)

The pictures on this website (in Dutch) made me think about the video implementation as it was presented at PK’14.

Leica introduceert Leica S-E en Leica S met 4K video #photokina2014. | Leica in Nederland

Video/motion:

- Why not CinemaDNG instead of Motion JPEG? This should give considerably more headroom in post. Of course there’s a lot of data to be chewed on, but Motion JPEG seems too limited.

- Why not HDMI 1.4(a) out for external 4K recording? HDMI v1.3 cannot carry 4K signals and will be quite out of date in 2015 and beyond. Lots of consumer electronics come with the new HDMI standard already.

- 4K recording from the whole sensor would make the camera much more interesting, even if this means pixel binning/line skipping. The look from the complete 30x45mm sensor would make it quite unique and wide angle lenses would stay wide angle.

- Looking at the picture of the video camera rig I can’t understand why they’d have designed it like this; looking through the optical viewfinder makes no sense since the mirror has to be up for video-shooting. Why not make the flash-shoe take an EVF so that is an option for more ergonomically handling in video-mode?

- As for sound, I don’t think the use of 3.5 mm jack connections is going to be enough for professional sound. Balanced XLR is what will be necessary if sound is recorded directly on the camera.

- I think Leica still has a lot of work to do concerning video in the new S. I suggest they take a long, hard look at the video specs of for example the €1500 Samsung NX1. Again, to really be of interest to the motion/video crowd in 2015-2019 (2-4 years for the next completely new S to arrive) the video specs need to be much better implemented and certainly be more modern than the newly announced S.


I’ll leave it at that for now, with one more minor remark about the hyperfocal distance read-out on the top-display, I think the order should be reversed so that it reads back/focus/front instead of front/focus/back. To me, this seems much more logical from the POV of the camera operator. Maybe Leica can make the order of appearance a menu option.

 

[RVB]

I cross-posted this on a few Leica S related forums hoping to read how other Leica S users feel about the new camera.


Now that Photokina-storm is behind us and we’ve all had a little more time to let everything sink in, here are some of my thoughts and questions (to Leica) on the new S. The more I think about it, the more I like the new camera, but I have some questions/suggestions. The final version is still at least 6 months away, so I guess there’s enough time for the design team to sit down and evaluate some of the feedback from potential customers.

This write up by David Farkas is quite interesting:

» Photokina 2014: Day 2 – Everything you need to know about the Leica S (Typ 007)

The pictures on this website (in Dutch) made me think about the video implementation as it was presented at PK’14.

Leica introduceert Leica S-E en Leica S met 4K video #photokina2014. | Leica in Nederland

Video/motion:

- Why not CinemaDNG instead of Motion JPEG? This should give considerably more headroom in post. Of course there’s a lot of data to be chewed on, but Motion JPEG seems too limited.

- Why not HDMI 1.4(a) out for external 4K recording? HDMI v1.3 cannot carry 4K signals and will be quite out of date in 2015 and beyond. Lots of consumer electronics come with the new HDMI standard already.

- 4K recording from the whole sensor would make the camera much more interesting, even if this means pixel binning/line skipping. The look from the complete 30x45mm sensor would make it quite unique and wide angle lenses would stay wide angle.

- Looking at the picture of the video camera rig I can’t understand why they’d have designed it like this; looking through the optical viewfinder makes no sense since the mirror has to be up for video-shooting. Why not make the flash-shoe take an EVF so that is an option for more ergonomically handling in video-mode?

- As for sound, I don’t think the use of 3.5 mm jack connections is going to be enough for professional sound. Balanced XLR is what will be necessary if sound is recorded directly on the camera.

- I think Leica still has a lot of work to do concerning video in the new S. I suggest they take a long, hard look at the video specs of for example the €1500 Samsung NX1. Again, to really be of interest to the motion/video crowd in 2015-2019 (2-4 years for the next completely new S to arrive) the video specs need to be much better implemented and certainly be more modern than the newly announced S.


I’ll leave it at that for now, with one more minor remark about the hyperfocal distance read-out on the top-display, I think the order should be reversed so that it reads back/focus/front instead of front/focus/back. To me, this seems much more logical from the POV of the camera operator. Maybe Leica can make the order of appearance a menu option.

Good post Peter,Your background in video really bringing a clear perspective on the video implementation.

Rob.

 

[elitegroup]

I recently picked up a new S(006) for half the price of the new CMOS S camera which I'm sure will be fine or even necessary for many, but not for me since the high ISO aspect has never been an issue with the S or any other camera I use … I simply do not like the high ISO results on anything I've seen to date including the A7/A7R, M(240), and some other highly touted lower light options. It's just a matter of personal preference.

Plus I have my shooting and PP technique down on the S CCD camera and want to maintain consistency and continuity with my previous S works.

So, I have three years of new warranty coverage while the CMOS is sorted out and any other possible fixes or updates that may happen.

- Marc

Hi Marc,

have you installed the new firmware update 2.4.0.0 for your S (typ 006) body and lenses? is it true the AF speed and tracking is significantly improved? I read on another forum that the 120CS lens no longer has hunting issues, is this the case? also have you noticed any tethered speed improvements with the 006 on the latest version of LR5? I'm currently on the look out to buy a good used S myself, cheers for any info.

 

[fotografz]

Hi Marc,

have you installed the new firmware update 2.4.0.0 for your S (typ 006) body and lenses? is it true the AF speed and tracking is significantly improved? I read on another forum that the 120CS lens no longer has hunting issues, is this the case? also have you noticed any tethered speed improvements with the 006 on the latest version of LR5? I'm currently on the look out to buy a good used S myself, cheers for any info.

Yes, I've updated all firmware in camera and for all my lenses including the CS120/2.5.

I just shot a wedding using the lens with and without off-camera lighting on the S type 006. (I've sold my S2P already).

I was sloooow going in low available lighting, it did small spurts of hunting, but it no longer went from one extreme to the other when working its ***-off trying to acquire focus. My CS35 and CS70 were both noticeably faster even in low light and very accurate.

In no way are the typical 35mm AF lenses in any danger of being challenged … (except my ZA85/1.4 screw drive on the A99 while using off center AF points … which drove me crazy with all the hunting).

I didn't try any tracking, and haven't shot the new camera tethered yet.

- Marc

 

[elitegroup]

Yes, I've updated all firmware in camera and for all my lenses including the CS120/2.5.

I just shot a wedding using the lens with and without off-camera lighting on the S type 006. (I've sold my S2P already).

I was sloooow going in low available lighting, it did small spurts of hunting, but it no longer went from one extreme to the other when working its ***-off trying to acquire focus. My CS35 and CS70 were both noticeably faster even in low light and very accurate.

In no way are the typical 35mm AF lenses in any danger of being challenged … (except my ZA85/1.4 screw drive on the A99 while using off center AF points … which drove me crazy with all the hunting).

I didn't try any tracking, and haven't shot the new camera tethered yet.

- Marc

Thanks for that, I look forward to testing an updated S (006) asap, cheers

 

[RVB]

Yes, I've updated all firmware in camera and for all my lenses including the CS120/2.5.

I just shot a wedding using the lens with and without off-camera lighting on the S type 006. (I've sold my S2P already).

I was sloooow going in low available lighting, it did small spurts of hunting, but it no longer went from one extreme to the other when working its ***-off trying to acquire focus. My CS35 and CS70 were both noticeably faster even in low light and very accurate.

In no way are the typical 35mm AF lenses in any danger of being challenged … (except my ZA85/1.4 screw drive on the A99 while using off center AF points … which drove me crazy with all the hunting).

I didn't try any tracking, and haven't shot the new camera tethered yet.

- Marc

Marc,I know your not in for 100mm from as it lacks CS but these are nice samples..

2014 Leica Summicron-S 100 - SORTVITT

Exif is on the top left of each image..

Rob