Shashin
Well-known member
Rubbish. There are other factors in choosing something except cost. There is more to life than cheap economic pseudo-theory.A smart buyer would normally choose the solution with the lowest cost.
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Rubbish. There are other factors in choosing something except cost. There is more to life than cheap economic pseudo-theory.A smart buyer would normally choose the solution with the lowest cost.
I thought that the wireless tethering was slow and/or unreliable compared to cabled tethering, and cabled tethering is coming later this year, but maybe I'm misinformed?You mean the wireless tethering you can get for the 645Z? It would help if there was no tethering, but there is...
Actually that claim I've heard from a Hasselblad dealer... those are generally camera enthusiasts too thoughSome people think NASA faked the moon landings. Camera enthusiasts are really not a credible source for the business.
Rubbish. There are other factors in choosing something except cost. There is more to life than cheap economic pseudo-theory.
You're on good form today Erik, good answer.Hi,
I don't agree on the issue.
Best regards
Erik
Well, probably a bit bored by now yes . I'd like to see MF reach broader layers of users, and I also think that the current MF business model cannot hold up forever, so I just sit and wait for the change to come. The business model worked perfectly in 2005 with the huge quality differences between the formats and little possibilities of crossovers. Today the landscape is much different, and I don't think it will turn back, competition will just become tougher. Phase One haven't changed an inch, for each new release some of us hope to see signs of change. So far nothing. I'm patient though, and Hasselblad is showing some signs of change, the H5X is an extremely interesting release in trying to reach broader.Torger, aren't you just a little bored with going on about the price differences? The prices are what they are, people will buy it or not. It's a commercial industry, if there weren't enough people valuing the brand, product, support, dealers, rental houses etc. etc. then Phase/ Hasselblad wouldn't be in business, they aren't charities. Can't we just accept that there are differences in price and move on?
I am not a corporation. I don't need a problem to solve to purchase something. Any criteria I use to make my purchase does not make me a good, bad, smart, nor dumb "buyer." Reason cannot always be reduced to simplistic MBA economics. I know it is very fashionable to talk about things in "market" terms, but most people live a human life, or, at least, should.Hi,
Check this: Procurement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I have not said that the cheapest solution is normally chosen. What I said:
"The assumption is made that buyer is looking for a solution to a set of problems. A good buyer looks at alternatives and chooses the one that fits his/her needs best within set limitations. A smart buyer would normally choose the solution with the lowest cost."
So a buyer would find the solutions that best fits their needs within limitations, than select on price.
Best regards
Erik
A Hasselblad dealer? Well, he should know all about Pentax's costs, margins, and sales. Actually, I hate when a dealer makes stuff up to slam the competition--just turns me off.Actually that claim I've heard from a Hasselblad dealer... those are generally camera enthusiasts too though
Well, I have yet to see any feedback on the 645Z and tethering option. My experience with wireless (D800) and cable tether (p25+) is they both work well or don't. Both have been smooth for me and both have given me problems. Personally, I prefer the wireless as the cable can be a pain. But with a lack of data or reviews on the Pentax solution, it is hard to say much about it.I thought that the wireless tethering was slow and/or unreliable compared to cabled tethering, and cabled tethering is coming later this year, but maybe I'm misinformed?
I am calm too, but I use whisky.I've got a nice cup of tea.
Mat
OK I'll bite...Hi,
OK, here it comes:
To talk about MFD without looking at the competitive landscape is simply ignorant and stupid.
Explanation:
The assumption is made that buyer is looking for a solution to a set of problems. A good buyer looks at alternatives and chooses the one that fits his/her needs best within set limitations. A smart buyer would normally choose the solution with the lowest cost.
So, LEAF is now offering a Sony Exmor based back that costs like four Pentax 645z (including four cameras) using exactly the same sensor or 12 pieces of A7r (using a slightly smaller Exmor sensor and still including camera bodies.
So a smart guy checks the alternatives:
If 50 MP is needed but intention is not to use on MFD on a technical body the Pentax 645z may be an interesting option. It is well the most advanced MF camera. It is also build with high precision as sensor is aligned to the rest of the camera, an advantage of the integrated approach (that also Leica has chosen with the S).
If 36 MP is enough the D810 or the A7r may be an interesting choice. The A7r obviously has some issues with shutter vibration, but it seems MFD owners are not much disturbed by that issue. In 3-4 months a new Sony is coming with 46 MP, but perhaps a new Phase One camera will hit the market before that?
If you need leaf shutter, high ISO and so, the CMOS based MFDBs are optimal, you can go with IQ-250, Hasselblad 50c or the new Leaf back. Still some competitive landscape, isn't it?
If you need tilts and shifts the older CCD based backs may be better.
So there are a lot of options, simply.
Best regards
Erik
Personally speaking, I'm not bored at all. The biggest failing of MF has been (and, for the most part, continues to be) its 'reassuringly expensive' pricing structure. Back in the days of film, you could put the same emulsion in your camera as any of the greatest photographers on the planet. The equipment wasn't priced stupidly. Cost wasn't a barrier to entry. With digital, some 'suit' decided on the high-initial-price-to-make-upgrade-attractive model - i.e. get 'em on board and get 'em to upgrade every couple of years. Make it painful for them to miss an upgrade. And what happens when you do get off this merry-go-round, or try to - you find out your 9000 shot IQ180 with VAW can't even make $14k on eBay. Ouch.Aren't you just a little bored with going on about the price differences? The prices are what they are, people will buy it or not. It's a commercial industry, if there weren't enough people valuing the brand, product, support, dealers, rental houses etc. etc. then Phase/ Hasselblad wouldn't be in business, they aren't charities. Can't we just accept that there are differences in price and move on?
OK I'll bite...
So you are quoting me and then choosing to use "stupid" and "ignorant" in your comment. I know this is not personal but I don't think one can just throw this kind of judgement without looking at the complete picture. Having some personal experience with the products in discussion can go a long way toward adding credibility to your statement...
Have you used/ tried/ tested any of the modern medium format systems? Have you compared it to e.g. D810 or A7R through the eyes & wallet of a potential buyer and in his/ her typical environment?
A smart buyer IMO would first look at their needs and wishes (as opposed to "problems"), then look at the products that can potentially fulfil those needs/ wishes, consider each product's strengths & weaknesses inc. costs of acquiring, running etc. and ideally should also have some hands-on experience, as limited or as extended as possible.
If medium format is the product getting the highest score and gets picked, we're all happy.
If something else gets picked, some of us might be a bit happier but that is the nature of healthy business and there is nothing new or wrong there.
BR
Yair
The Zeiss lenses for the Hassy 400 are quite old. What's surprising about them is they are still pretty decent, especially when stopped down, and they have a nice look (even if the technical performance is not perfect). But they have not been the benchmark for image quality in medium format lenses for a long time.The Otus is designed to deliver near optimal sharpness at maximum aperture, with no longitudinal chromatic aberration (green/magenta fringing in out of focus areas), any lenses for MFD designed that way? For instance, the Zeiss lenses for the Hasselblad have significant colour bokeh. Which lenses don't have that in MFD?
What is your preferred crop/ composition Erik?the Leaf Credo 50 has marginally larger sensor size and also marginally higher resolution, 50 MP vs 36 MP on DSLRs, a 17% (linear) advantage in MP.
Clearly, it is a relevant question to ask weather a 44x33 mm sensor on the Credo combined with the available lenses will offer significant benefits over 36 MP DSLRs.
The Zeiss lenses for the Hassy 400 are quite old. What's surprising about them is they are still pretty decent, especially when stopped down, and they have a nice look (even if the technical performance is not perfect). But they have not been the benchmark for image quality in medium format lenses for a long time.
If you'd like to make a comparison to something more recent, like the Schneider LS and Phase One D lenses our office is always open to you.
Using a lens like a 110LS/2.8 might well change your mind on this.