The GetDPI Photography Forum

Great to see you here. Join our insightful photographic forum today and start tapping into a huge wealth of photographic knowledge. Completing our simple registration process will allow you to gain access to exclusive content, add your own topics and posts, share your work and connect with other members through your own private inbox! And don’t forget to say hi!

Hassy CFV-50C - Under the radar?

gmfotografie

Well-known member
i also looked at the pack at photokina but it was not possible to test it accurate.
i'm very exciting about your experienece with this system. please share it soon because i also want to order it ��
 

vjbelle

Well-known member
So far the only way I would touch this would be after seeing live view in the back. It doesn't have to be as good as Phase but it has to be a monster step up from my IQ180. If it looks good then I'm in.....

Victor
 

vjbelle

Well-known member

torger

Active member
Thanks for posting..... Your testing didn't say what a 'significant shift' was for artifacts showing up with the 60mm XL. I keep my shifts to 10mm or less so maybe I could just get by. It would be one of the the issues to resolve before parting with any real money.
The acceptance of crosstalk is a subjective matter so it's not easy to say for sure, as discussed in the Cambo Actus thread:
http://www.getdpi.com/forum/medium-...acks/51828-new-cambo-actus-digital-backs.html

As I discuss there you should have a safe 70mm image circle on the 60mm XL, outside that you may depending on scene start to see serious loss in color fidelity. Shifting the 44x33 mm sensor 10mm on the 60XL should not be a problem (you will then use 70mm image circle), but I'd try the combination to make sure if it's important for you.
 

tjv

Active member
I think the Rodie 32mm works just ok, particularly considering how expensive it is and that you're paying for an image circle that you can't make anywhere near the most of. Someone may correct me if I'm wrong...
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
Thanks for posting..... Your testing didn't say what a 'significant shift' was for artifacts showing up with the 60mm XL. I keep my shifts to 10mm or less so maybe I could just get by. It would be one of the the issues to resolve before parting with any real money.

Victor
That's correct. We provided an image circle we thought was a reasonable assement of maximum usable image circle. But we more so relied on potential users downloading the stitched and labeled JPGs and making their own assessment as to what was acceptable and what was not - everyone's threshold is different. I'd be glad to discuss further with you when I'm at the office on Monday if you'd like.
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
Are you safe with the Rodie 32mm HR or is that going to be problematic ?
That lens was also covered in our test:
Phase One IQ250 Tech Cam Testing - DT Blog

Less usable image circle with a 32HR than with other backs. Whether the amount of usable image circle is acceptable to you is a decision only you can make.

Also keep in mind our test was done with Capture One's LCC tool which I would consider the leader in widely available commercial raw processors, especially in terms of tech camera usage. So your results with Hassy's Phocus tool may very - you'd need to work with a Hassy dealer who has done extensive tech camera testing to make that determination.
 

torger

Active member
Capture One's LCC tool is indeed very good but any basic implementation makes a great job unless the sensor produces extra artifacts. The Dalsa 6um and smaller pixel sensors produce extra artifacts in the form of tiling and microlens ripple (Dalsa-based 40, 60, and 80 megapixel backs) which normal LCC won't correct, Capture One has good suppression for that (and my own Lumariver HDR if I too may do some sales work... :) ), which I don't think Phocus or Lightroom has, haven't really tested it recently though so I don't know for sure.

Fortunately the Sony sensor does not produce any (strong) tiling and no microlens ripple, so I think any basic LCC implementation will do just fine here, but I haven't tested Phocus personally.

There's one other factor too though, if the file has crosstalk in it the demosaicer may be put out of balance and you get mazing artifacts. Demosaicers that extract a very high amount of detail are generally more unstable and will not tolerate almost any crosstalk, the DCB mosaicer in some open source raw converters is particularly unstable in this case. The demosaicer in Capture One is a nice tradeoff between detail and stability so it can tolerate quite much crosstalk before it breaks down. I have not enough experience with Phocus to know how it behaves, but my guess is that it is too quite stable, becase I think that demosaicers designed for cameras without AA filters (ie all MF cameras) are more stable by nature.

Long post, but the message is that although I haven't personally tested Phocus with the Sony MF sensor and tech wides I think it's very likely that it will work out just as good/bad as C1, unlike for the Dalsa sensors where I think C1 is better.
 

vjbelle

Well-known member
FWIW I wouldn't consider wasting money on this back for use with V lenses. I've had and still do have numerous V lenses and they are nowhere near capable of keeping up with these new sensors. I recently bought an adapter for my 800e for V lenses and shot with my 60, 80, 120, and 180. The 60 was useless. The 80 just OK. The 120 can only be used for Macro or semi close work and even then just OK. The 180 was just OK. None of these lenses performed anywhere near as well as modern optics. If someone likes how one of these lenses draws or renders then that may be a different story but they aren't for me.....YMMV. A tech camera and modern lenses is a whole different animal!

Victor
 

gmfotografie

Well-known member
yes i supposed that the good old lenses cannot work with such a digipack :-(

i would be very interested in comparing this digipack with old "analog" lenses and digital schneider or rodenstocks.
 

darr

Well-known member
FWIW I wouldn't consider wasting money on this back for use with V lenses. I've had and still do have numerous V lenses and they are nowhere near capable of keeping up with these new sensors. I recently bought an adapter for my 800e for V lenses and shot with my 60, 80, 120, and 180. The 60 was useless. The 80 just OK. The 120 can only be used for Macro or semi close work and even then just OK. The 180 was just OK. None of these lenses performed anywhere near as well as modern optics. If someone likes how one of these lenses draws or renders then that may be a different story but they aren't for me.....YMMV. A tech camera and modern lenses is a whole different animal!

Victor
The images you made with your 800e + Hassy lenses, did you use Phocus to post-process the images? I read Phocus has "Sophisticated lens corrections for H and V system lenses (DAC)" and think that is part of the IQ chain.

Have you tried using a DB on a 500 series camera body and used Phocus for post-processing? If so, was the result as bad as using the lenses on your 800e?
 

vjbelle

Well-known member
The images you made with your 800e + Hassy lenses, did you use Phocus to post-process the images? I read Phocus has "Sophisticated lens corrections for H and V system lenses (DAC)" and think that is part of the IQ chain.

Have you tried using a DB on a 500 series camera body and used Phocus for post-processing? If so, was the result as bad as using the lenses on your 800e?
I did not use Phocus...... the lens corrections you elude to would have to be dramatic to make the 60mm or 120mm work properly on an 800 series camera. Maybe there would be a better match with a 500 series system. I have various Leica M lenses that were completely useless on an A7r but reportedly performed admirably on an M240.

The 60mm and 120mm had edges that were completely out of focus..... really out of focus!! Central area was in focus. I didn't shoot much with the 80mm but what I saw seemed to be pretty much OK across the frame. I had expected more from the 180 but it just didn't resolve enough for me..... its a nice focal length on ff 35mm. Also, at that focal length extra precaution must be taken for shutter vibration.

I started out Digital MF with a V system and Phase P25. As I recall I was never happy with the 60mm and the 120mm was very iffy at infinity..... but this is from memory going back almost 10 years. I am now strictly a tech camera shooter or occasionally my 800e but only with certain lenses. Am awaiting the next iteration of the A7r.......

Victor
 

darr

Well-known member
I did not use Phocus...... the lens corrections you elude to would have to be dramatic to make the 60mm or 120mm work properly on an 800 series camera. Maybe there would be a better match with a 500 series system. I have various Leica M lenses that were completely useless on an A7r but reportedly performed admirably on an M240.

The 60mm and 120mm had edges that were completely out of focus..... really out of focus!! Central area was in focus. I didn't shoot much with the 80mm but what I saw seemed to be pretty much OK across the frame. I had expected more from the 180 but it just didn't resolve enough for me..... its a nice focal length on ff 35mm. Also, at that focal length extra precaution must be taken for shutter vibration.

I started out Digital MF with a V system and Phase P25. As I recall I was never happy with the 60mm and the 120mm was very iffy at infinity..... but this is from memory going back almost 10 years. I am now strictly a tech camera shooter or occasionally my 800e but only with certain lenses. Am awaiting the next iteration of the A7r.......

Victor
Thanks Victor.

I am eying the CFV-50C back and interested in hearing about others experience using the 500 system and lenses with DB backs. I have been using a P45 with an ALPA MAX + Schneider lenses, and also with a RZ IID for studio portrait work. I am thinking it may be time for me to make an upgrade to a newer back and may reinvest in a 500 system again (third time :banghead:). I am a patient buyer so excuse my investigative questions. ;)

Kind regards,
Darr
 

vjbelle

Well-known member
I dug up some images from a China trip (2005) I took with a P25 and 503 with SWC, 60mm, 80mm, 120mm, 180mm (I never cull but should!) As I look across various images they're good for the time but nothing like modern day stuff. Corner smearing is a common issue with most lenses. I'm truly spoiled by the Digitar's on an STC - corner to corner, edge to edge perfection even when shifted..... f11 or bust!;)

Good luck with your quest.....

Victor
 
Top