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Some P45+/Hasselblad V series samples

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
I think you should post work. The feedback alone is a learning experience. Far too often people think there work is not good enough. It's the same as I don't ask questions because I may sound stupid. Nonsense you learn by doing, sharing and gathering data to be better. As a instructor I cant say that enough that many people have grown so much just by opening up and learn from others. Not pointing at you per say but that's why we are here. To learn, I still learn everyday and sharing is part of that. Just sayin
 
M

mjr

Guest
Come come now Torger, be serious, you are mildly offended? Please, you're a grown man on an internet forum, the chances of everyone agreeing with you all the time is pretty slim.

Actually I read your entire post, I just felt everything you were saying was either absurd or you were professing to know another persons motivations, there are a lot of people who stand by the images they produce rather than the kit they own, it's not unusual you know.

As with all things in life, balance is healthy, you and Eric (are you guys related?) are so singularly focused that sometimes it becomes ever so slightly tedious, the is a photography forum as much as a gear forum so how about commenting on the pleasures or passions of photography as you see it rather than constant cross-talk and mtf graphs, better yet, how's this for an idea, show some incredible photography taken with the extensive kit you carry about? Just a thought.

Have a nice evening.
 

torger

Active member
I think you should post work. The feedback alone is a learning experience. Far too often people think there work is not good enough.
Yes, of course you're right. I do post some images here from time to time, but it's not to showcase my best work or something, I like the "fun with" threads because they're so relaxed and people are being nice to each-other, great artistry and regular snapshots are both welcome.

To really learn from showing work one need to show it in a context where you get criticism. I still feel that I'm developing artisitically on my own so I'm staying low for yet some time. Getting your work criticized is a bit of a stress too, I want to achieve good things but not at the cost of personal enjoyment. After all, the greatest value to me as an amateur photographer is to be out in the nature and feeling relaxed away from the stress. But like many I'm wired in the way that anything I do I want to do as good as I can, so it's hard to make it just a relaxing recreational activity.
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
One fact remains after teaching 23 workshops, some folks buy the absolute best money can buy because its not about the money but about a no excuse tool mentality. If they don't get the shot its their fault not the gear. I totally understand that thinking for those folks. I buy gear to solve a set of issues, its a different purchase mentality. Both reasoning in purchase thought is very valid. People buy for many reasons, brand, feel, style and the list goes on and on.
Since I can relate to this post, I'd also add that beyond the removal of gear impediment, there's also the shooting experience side too - some systems are just enjoyable to use regardless of the ultimate technical quality of the results. It's why the V system appeals to quite a few folks even though ultimately it may not match up to using the V lenses on a Phase One DF+ or 645z with adaptors. Using a V camera body, winding on the mirror/shutter and the twap/click of the shooting experience is a joy and having a great digital option for it makes it even more so. Btw, it's why some of us still will shoot film even though from a practical point of view the same or 'better' technical results could be captured using a mirrorless camera and just about any lens today. Now if only there was a practical digital XPan or 617 ...

I have other friends who consider the camera system a tool that just should be able to capture the images they want with complete flexibility and efficiency. They are very comfortable with what they use, and it may also be the best technical gear too, but when it comes down to it it's just stuff between the eye and the subject that captures the best images with the least effort and with utmost consistency. The thoughts of using most of the gear we're discussing here would just be a total pain in the backside for them in their photography. Full automation, reliable metering, perfect lenses, ideal ergonomics, consistent quality through an efficient workflow are all that really matter to them. For these folks it would be using the latest H5D and AF lenses vs 503CWD & V lenses and a CFV back, or more likely a D810/5DII and the best Nikon G or Canon AF glass vs a Df & AIS lenses.
 

ErikKaffehr

Well-known member
Hi,

We are related trough Adam and Eve.

We are both engineers, Anders Torger is in software development while I am working with nuclear power plant simulation. Anders has also developed some pretty nice software that can merge several images into an HDR raw file. So he knows a bit about raw files.

I guess that Anders and I share the obsession to find out about things and also share our experience.

This thread is actually about images. Some people are interested in buying into the Hasselblad system. Let's say they are willing to spend something like 15-20 k$US, don't you think that a sharing a few raw files indicating what they will get is a relevant endeavour?

If you are not interested in technology and in making best use of your equipment, why are you wasting your time on a technical thread?

Best regards
Erik

As with all things in life, balance is healthy, you and Eric (are you guys related?) are so singularly focused that sometimes it becomes ever so slightly tedious, the is a photography forum as much as a gear forum so how about commenting on the pleasures or passions of photography as you see it rather than constant cross-talk and mtf graphs, better yet, how's this for an idea, show some incredible photography taken with the extensive kit you carry about? Just a thought.

Have a nice evening.
 

torger

Active member
Come come now Torger, be serious, you are mildly offended? Please, you're a grown man on an internet forum, the chances of everyone agreeing with you all the time is pretty slim.

Actually I read your entire post, I just felt everything you were saying was either absurd or you were professing to know another persons motivations, there are a lot of people who stand by the images they produce rather than the kit they own, it's not unusual you know.

As with all things in life, balance is healthy, you and Eric (are you guys related?) are so singularly focused that sometimes it becomes ever so slightly tedious, the is a photography forum as much as a gear forum so how about commenting on the pleasures or passions of photography as you see it rather than constant cross-talk and mtf graphs, better yet, how's this for an idea, show some incredible photography taken with the extensive kit you carry about? Just a thought.
I'm quicker than most on the keyboard, that's my problem. I can put out massive amounts of text in notime, and I can get excited. Sorry for overflowing the forum at times :D

Anyways, in this context I pledge guilty of simplifying. I wanted to show that there are valid means to be interested in technical performance, and the ones that claim that they are not often still is but is not so interested in the measuring part of it.

I also wanted to show that not all strive to become artists and can still have a strong interest in photographic equipment and their performance. It is an exciting area with great technological achievements over the years, which involves both electronics, mechanical and optical advancements. I thought the Otus lens line was an impossibility until I saw them. CMOS in MF is finally here. Low cost MF is coming, lots of exciting stuff going on.

There are threads which has images in them, and there are threads that discuss gear and argue about gear, and argue about things like this. There are even sections dedicated for photographic art criticism, not so much on GetDPI but on other photographic forums I visit.

As I write so much and long I guess you miss that I actually do write about the pleasures of photography. I'm a strong view camera advocate and I often return to the reasons, I'm also a strong advocate to not bring sharpness too far as you loses other flexibility.

Crosstalk is a special interest, but it has great impact on the future of tech cams as we know it today. I want to raise awareness of the issue so tech users can put pressure on the manufacturers to solve the issue rather than moving further and further away from the great performance that we had in the Kodak sensors. If the trend continues it will be the end of tech lenses as we know them today, we'll see even more heavy and complex optical constructions than current Digarons. Symmetrical wides are small, light cheap and still have very good performance. I think there's value in keeping that optical design possibility, and well it's not only about symmetrical designs, it's about weakly retrofocus too. The trend has been going for breaking that design as well.

Ending with "why don't you show your work for a change" is a classic. But anyway, here are a few random shots (my lack of order is becoming an issue...) from the past year, I hope you enjoy them. They of course become out of context here but should give some idea of my shooting style and why I like to work with a view camera. Actually I don't use wide angles as much as one might think from my interest in wide angle design :), but I have them in my arsenal and use them from time to time. I enjoy making images out of ordinary subjects, I think it's fantastic that only placing the four corners of the frame on a particular postition can create an image out of nothing. Of course I also enjoy to capture grand photos of famous locations in wonderful light, but that is to me more of a experience of nature to me and there are already so many that do that well. Creating an image out of nothing in particular is the ultimate photographic experience to me.

I also think that a great part of the artistry in landscape photography, perhaps the greatest these days, is choosing what you show. You decide what is to be shown and what is good, the audience have to adapt (or not come, which probably is more likely in reality...). Therefore I don't believe in the excellence of the single image, anyone can shoot a great image once in a while. Artistry comes from a body of work, the feelings you convey when many images are watched together. I don't think you can convey a message with a single image, especially in the landscape genre, but you can with many. Being careful when choosing images is key of course, but even in which order you choose to display them can have an impact on what the images convey.
 
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mjr

Guest
I can promise you that I'd much rather look at your images than read your words Torger, maybe in the spirit of balance, you can show both in equal measure?!
 

ErikKaffehr

Well-known member
Hi,

This is a thread about the usability of the Hasselblad system. I don't feel you contribute to that?

Why don't you start a new thread, discussing the issues you happen to have at heart?

Best regards
Erik



I can promise you that I'd much rather look at your images than read your words Torger, maybe in the spirit of balance, you can show both in equal measure?!
 

torger

Active member
I can promise you that I'd much rather look at your images than read your words Torger
I don't know if that is a compliment or an insult :D

Maybe in ten years I can show of both of equal measure. I develop slow and from all time I spend on the forums discussing technical details there's not much time for shooting ;)

(I kind of enjoy when the temperature rises in a discussion, gets to test standpoints etc, I have strong opinions about things, but in the end there's no hard feelings.)
 
M

mjr

Guest
I'd say it's a compliment in the most part, haha. There is never any hard feelings from my view, nor any raised temperatures, it's just a discussion.

Have a nice weekend, hopefully you will spend at least a part of it taking photographs.
 

stephengilbert

Active member
Erik,

Maybe you should wait 'til you've reached a hundred posts before you tell people to go away. This isn't LuLa, yet.

SG

Hi,

This is a thread about the usability of the Hasselblad system. I don't feel you contribute to that?

Why don't you start a new thread, discussing the issues you happen to have at heart?

Best regards
Erik
 

torger

Active member
I'll try making some images during the weekend... having a bit of a angst-period concerning photographs though.

Last weekend I went out in the forest for several hours without shooting a single frame. Afterwards I was mentally exhausted. In theory I think I have the skill to become a decent artistic photographer, but I just don't have the stamina so staying at an amateur level is best for me. Two days of creative photographic work and I need a week's rest from further photography, a bit depending on how it goes.

One side of having some sort of ambition and a big camera that requires tripod is that you don't bring it out if you don't think the image is going to be good, and it can be really frustrating at times when you don't manage to see anything that inspires and fits your vision. There's also a risk ending up wanting to be better than you actually are, that can take joy out of photography as successful photographs then become really far between. I think I'm dangerously close to that, which is a part of the reason I don't like to put my images out there for open criticism. I'm afraid of losing the joy.

A key driving force behind my photography is the feeling I get when I succeed with an image. Finding a composition, thinking already at shooting time how it will fit into a context, making the image and see that it come out well just as I imagined, not just a nice image but also one that can fit into an artistic context.

(sorry for being a bit off-topic, but the thread is long enough now to be pulled away I think... I always pull threads off-topic... haha)

It's inspriring to look at your images Mat by the way, both because they're good and also as I recognize some of the shooting locations as they're closeby, at least one of them has the same subject as I've shot myself :)
 
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PSon

Active member
I have used many systems and still own all of them. In the long stretch of my photographic journey, I learned to respect many camera systems for their strengths and overcome their weaknesses. I enjoy the learning and experimenting processes of each system like many gear gurus. In the end I found photography is much deeper than the pages that I can write about each gear. So you would think that I would stop investigating about gears, but to the contrary I ended up investigating more about them because I find them to be fascinating especially when each system is limited by its closed system. In my research, I began to have answers to the many questions that arised in my photography. Some of the answers helped me addressed some of the problems that I had faced in my photography, while other answers led me to new questions for both, more technical and creative questions.

One of the camera systems that I like to use is the Hasselblad V system. I don't talk much about them because what I like may not be suitable for another photographer. The only way a person would know the camera is for them is after they have the opportunity to use the system. The more the systems the photographers use, the more the confirmation to the system that would fit them; experience is the best teacher. I think every system has its users; folks feel like it is an extension of their arm to reach out and facilitate their imaging process. I like to exercise with people that I enjoy their company to burn the amount of calories I need to do in order to keep my weight stable. I can still reduce the same amount of calories with folks that I have less comfort in their company but why not enjoy the process since life has too many complications as it is. In the end all of the things we try to do ended up only being important if it can help us being a better human.
 

ErikKaffehr

Well-known member
Hi,

OK, but quite a few readers are interested in the images posted, the capabilities of the lenses and so on.

As this is a technical thread I would prefer it to stay a technical thread, because it actually is intended to serve people who are considering spending significantly on a Hasselblad system.

Best regards
Erik


Erik,

Maybe you should wait 'til you've reached a hundred posts before you tell people to go away. This isn't LuLa, yet.

SG
 

PSon

Active member
I like to contribute to the thread with some images as well. These were taken with either the Hasselblad V lens or Hasselblad V camera and digital back or all in combination. I have hybridized my different photographic systems so that they all can be interchangeable to overcome the limitations of each closed system.





 

torger

Active member
Technical infos on forum is valuable to many, due to my internet precense also outside the forums I get contacted now and then with questions (mostly regarding tech cams), and it's often remarkable how limited and sometimes incorrect information people get from local dealers here in Europe. I think the dealers in the US are better as they seems to be larger and more used to various types of equipment and odd combinations. Anyway there's no lack of appreciation of providing unbiased, broad and deep technical information about a system.

A forum like this with all contributors collected sits on a remarkable amount of knowledge of many systems. If I wonder about performance of some special MFD combination I search the GetDPI and Lula forums first. Often you can find actual samples along with the regular opinions. I think it's wonderful. Before it was all like "it's great because it's medium format and it's 16 bit and you can't afford it", now with some of those systems within reach to many more users it's great to find out how they perform so one can compare it to other alternatives.
 

PSon

Active member
Torger, I agreed with you on the important of smart buying. But sometimes we are too smart for our own good too. Furthermore, I believe when we present technical information alone it may very well be negative to someone who is not so experienced in the gear and might alter their thinking when that system may be the right system for them. Sometimes we do a good service for someone but it may not ended up what we want it to be. We should present the look or mood that a gear can offer and then followed up with technical info to help them. It is very difficult to present apple and orange in the same concept. If we are to present pure technical of a system we must present all the elements of that system in order to give a fair assessment of that system. As you know sometimes a photographer can do everything with just one lens. Thus even the system like the Bronica SQ, there is a wonderful lens made by Schneider for the SQ system and it is a lot cheaper than the Rollei version. Perhaps someone could make a successful career with that just one lens. Thus we should not overlook a system even it is very limited. Sometimes it is in these systems that we find the best value. But sometimes getting value does not mean we don't have to pay for it in a different way.
 

torger

Active member
Working with only one focal length is interesting, if I was into street photography I think I could be a Lecia M guy shooting the 50mm. For my landscape work it's the complete opposite, got seven lenses and I use them all, all the time.

Some can be empowered by having lots of options through an all-around system, some can be empowered by having a narrow system so they can concentrate better on the task at hand. With my Linhof it's a little bit of both. I want and benefit from movements on all lenses and having many focal lengths, but also feel more relaxed that it's a slow system suited for a quite narrow genre, the one I'm primarily interested in.

That's more about handling than quality though. I have not been in contact with many MFD potential buyers that would get it if they did not see a quality advantage from their point of view. Quality to people is not always centered around resolving power though, although in the case of tech cameras it generally is the key focus.
 

darr

Well-known member
One reason I continue to like the V system besides the look from some of the lenses (BTW, beautiful portrait PSon of the elder), is I use some of the V/SWC system components with my ALPA Max.

The biggest hurdle I faced with the ALPA was the viewfinder option, which was zero for me except for the ground-glass which I totally enjoy after the camera hits the tripod. But, many times depending upon what the shoot is for, I may end up walking in the landscape looking for the right angle, etc. The best solution I came up with that works for me 100% of time is a series of Hasselblad viewfinders that fit onto their 41050 Focusing Screen Adapter. After trying to figure out what I could use, I purchased an ALPA V back adapter and went from there. To me this is telling of how well designed the Hassleblad system is and how their system stayed in my mind a few years after I sold off the last system I owned.

I am a mixed bag of artist and technical knowledge. I am certainly not as astute as the gear gurus here, but I was a math major and an art major in college and that shows I have tenacity if nothing else. I am in photography for the art stuff now that I have retired from a working studio environment that started decades ago. I do APPRECIATE the tech writings and all the images posted no matter how anyone else comments; keep them coming!
 

ErikKaffehr

Well-known member
Hi,

The way I shoot is that once I see a potential subject I usually try to find a god vantage point. At this point I often use my hands as a view finder frame. When I am happy with that vantage point I set up my tripod. It can often be a bit problematic to find a good piece of ground.

Next step is choosing the camera, sometimes I start with the DSLR and a zoom, but now more often with the Hasselblad. After choosing camera I select a lens. Since I have chosen my vantage point with a certain lens on mind it is often an easy choice. Often I cannot move significantly as I tend to choose the highest point around, and moving around a lot would change perspective.

Quite often I use stitching as a zoom, shooting with the back mounted vertically. I have 40/50/80/120/180 mm, turning the back and stitching gives me like 62 and 100 mm lenses.

Best regards
Erik


One reason I continue to like the V system besides the look from some of the lenses (BTW, beautiful portrait PSon of the elder), is I use some of the V/SWC system components with my ALPA Max.

The biggest hurdle I faced with the ALPA was the viewfinder option, which was zero for me except for the ground-glass which I totally enjoy after the camera hits the tripod. But, many times depending upon what the shoot is for, I may end up walking in the landscape looking for the right angle, etc. The best solution I came up with that works for me 100% of time is a series of Hasselblad viewfinders that fit onto their 41050 Focusing Screen Adapter. After trying to figure out what I could use, I purchased an ALPA V back adapter and went from there. To me this is telling of how well designed the Hassleblad system is and how their system stayed in my mind a few years after I sold off the last system I owned.

I am a mixed bag of artist and technical knowledge. I am certainly not as astute as the gear gurus here, but I was a math major and an art major in college and that shows I have tenacity if nothing else. I am in photography for the art stuff now that I have retired from a working studio environment that started decades ago. I do APPRECIATE the tech writings and all the images posted no matter how anyone else comments; keep them coming!
 
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