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CFV-50c as a kit with 43XL and techno… ?

archivue

Active member
i've just received an email from a dealer in paris, they are selling a bundle :
CFV-50c as a kit with 43XL and techno…

i thought the 43 wasn't the best alternative for movements with this back… ?!

Le_Moyen_Format_News_
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
We list this lens as "very limited" on our Tech Camera Lens Overview when used with the IQ250, IQ150, or Credo 50*.

That doesn't mean "not usable in any circumstance" but it does mean, in our opinion (after extensive testing and experience), that most users would be much better off with a Rodenstock 40HR instead.

An exception might be someone using it on a ultra-compact tech camera (Factum, Alpa TC) with the intention of using it without movements. That, of course, is a different situation than the Techno.

Another exception would be those shooting table top or still life, since the limitations are mostly at infinity and near-infinity focus distances, and quickly lift when used at more macro-oriented distances (since the lens is further away).

*Note that Capture One's very sophisticated LCC tool, using it's special "wide angle tech camera lens" mode, and Phocus' lens cast removal tool will not necessarily handle outlying situations equally well - so our assessment may be a bit optimistic when translated into CFV-50C.
 

yongfei

New member
How much would be the saving if priced separately?

This kit is advertised as being multi-purpose "en Studio et Architecture". This reminds me of a saying that SOME dealers conveniently overlooked the compatibility issue between some Schneiders and the latest generation of digital backs. So hats off to those who have done a thorough investigation for us. Thanks for the age of internet...
 
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tjv

Active member
Linhof & Studio are doing packages with the Techno / STC / Silvestri with the 40H and CFV-50c. Paula says the 43XL in not good at all, so doesn't recommend it. I've seen results with the 60XL that are superb, even with moderate movements, processed in Phocus. C1 may be a great bit of software, but let's not overstate the difference between it and Phocus when it comes to output.
 

torger

Active member
It all depends on the amount of movements you need. I have test shots with the 43XL, and it will work unshifted. If you're picky about color and don't want it disturbed by crosstalk you can't move it off center almost anything, but as we've seen from Guy's Credo 50 testing you can stretch it quite a bit and still get results that look good.

With the same type of stretching the limits it seems like the 43XL would do about 10mm shift on the long side (similar on the short side), which can be enough for a 44x33mm back. If you're into stitching you'd need more, or if you're like me both interested in being able to use most of the image circle and don't like to push a sensor into crosstalk it would not look like a good combination.

I have haven't run Phocus much and don't know it's LCC capabilities. The CFV-50c doesn't present (strong) tiling or ripple fortunately so you won't need specific algorithms to clean up movement artifacts (like some of the Dalsa sensors require), so any basic LCC algorithm should produce a good result. When it comes to crosstalk you need a demosaicer that is robust against green channel separation (one green will get leaks from red and the other from blue so they will separate in the case they should be the same, which can cause the demosaicer to produce false detail and mazing artifacts). The demosaicer in Capture One is robust against this, but that is not the case in all raw converters. I don't know what it is in Phocus. My guess is that it will work, but I would like to see it in person first.

And no I don't think it's great marketing to put out these combinations without a disclaimer, but let's hope they inform the potential buyers before buy of what the limits are and not only go on about the advantages of live view and high ISO. From a lens with a 110mm image circle you get ~75mm usable when stretching it, and that may not be what the typical user is expecting to get. It will be perfectly fine for some though, 75mm is more than the Digaron-S 70mm.

But it's also about the upgradability of the system. You need to inform the buyer that when you want wider angle than this starting 43mm lens (which is not super-wide on a 44x33mm sensor) there are limitations, the SK35 and SK28 will be even more limited, so limited that you probably want the Rodenstock Digaron series and that may not seem like a good option for a system that is market as a low cost MF system.

If you have all the facts on the table, it can still be a good option in the end for your shooting style and budget, and I hope to see the live view backs on tech cams soon.
 
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torger

Active member
By the way, latest price on a new CFV-50c back including taxes is 970,000 yen which is about 9100 USD.

https://www.mapcamera.com/item/7392544342207

It can be something to compare with when you see the new package deals from the european dealers. The Japanese pricing on this back is different from the european (and US) by some unknown reason, I guess they have some specific V system market they want to reach there. I think it would be interesting if Hasselblad tried this pricing also in other markets, it would make these tech cam deals even more attractive, where you can get a complete system for less than what a competitor's back costs.
 

TuomasU

New member
But it's also about the upgradability of the system. You need to inform the buyer that when you want wider angle than this starting 43mm lens (which is not super-wide on a 44x33mm sensor) there are limitations, the SK35 and SK28 will be even more limited, so limited that you probably want the Rodenstock Digaron series and that may not seem like a good option for a system that is market as a low cost MF system.

If you have all the facts on the table, it can still be a good option in the end for your shooting style and budget, and I hope to see the live view backs on tech cams soon.
Do you have any idea what would be the situation using CFV-50c with Digaron lenses 28mm or even 23mm? Would this combination allow decent movements? Anyone has any first hand experience on this on any setup?

Tuomas
 

tjv

Active member
Actually, I've heard another report from a very accomplished photographer who has tested the 43XL / 50c combo who says it works pretty well. Not as good as the 40HR or even 60XL, but "not bad". Still, not a combination that I'd want to buy from scratch, but if you already have the 43mm then maybe it's an okay interim lens?
 
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