The GetDPI Photography Forum

Great to see you here. Join our insightful photographic forum today and start tapping into a huge wealth of photographic knowledge. Completing our simple registration process will allow you to gain access to exclusive content, add your own topics and posts, share your work and connect with other members through your own private inbox! And don’t forget to say hi!

Should I or not?

Thanks Bryan. I agree that in good light condition and with balanced light any digital back with more pixels than the D800E can overwhelm the D800E.

I have stated that I only shoot milky way, sunrise (backlight) and sunset (backlight). When I shoot directly against the sun, the image quality is bound by shadow noise (dynamic range) because I have alignment issues with bracketing. For my specific use cases when I print large, the D800E (Sony CMOS sensor) outperforms any CCD regardless of number of pixels, sensor size or superiority of glasses.
 

Bryan Stephens

Workshop Member
For what you shoot, I would say that you are spot on, as I have yet to be able to shoot directly into the sun without losing a lot of my detail, even with the amazing highlight correction of C1. I also have difficulty shooting at night even in long exposure mode, then again I don't do it that often so I am out of practice so to speak.

I used to do it quite often when I shot my Hasselblad 503cw with Fuji film. I shot an outdoor moonlit shot of my father-in-laws cabin in the woods of Maine. The exposure was 29 minutes at f8 and the image looks as though it was shot at dusk. due to the color of the sky. The great part of the image is the star trails are roughly 2 or 3 inches long on a 20x20 print, and it is tack sharp. I haven't been able to reproduce something like that, but I don't try too often either.

Are you considering looking at Nikons new camera the D810a? It is supposed to be excellent for astrophotography.
 

Pradeep

Member
After thinking about it for several days now and much internal debate I have decided to give it up.

The IQ180 is going on sale shortly. I will sell the camera body and lenses separately later. If anybody is interested in this item please PM me. I will be putting it up for sale officially on this and other fora in the next couple of days.

I am very thankful to all of you here. It has not been an easy decision at all and I really appreciate all the help I have received.

Pradeep
 

Paratom

Well-known member
After thinking about it for several days now and much internal debate I have decided to give it up.

The IQ180 is going on sale shortly. I will sell the camera body and lenses separately later. If anybody is interested in this item please PM me. I will be putting it up for sale officially on this and other fora in the next couple of days.

I am very thankful to all of you here. It has not been an easy decision at all and I really appreciate all the help I have received.

Pradeep
Have you also decided which system to use? Just out of interest.
 

Paul2660

Well-known member
For what you shoot, I would say that you are spot on, as I have yet to be able to shoot directly into the sun without losing a lot of my detail, even with the amazing highlight correction of C1. I also have difficulty shooting at night even in long exposure mode, then again I don't do it that often so I am out of practice so to speak.

I used to do it quite often when I shot my Hasselblad 503cw with Fuji film. I shot an outdoor moonlit shot of my father-in-laws cabin in the woods of Maine. The exposure was 29 minutes at f8 and the image looks as though it was shot at dusk. due to the color of the sky. The great part of the image is the star trails are roughly 2 or 3 inches long on a 20x20 print, and it is tack sharp. I haven't been able to reproduce something like that, but I don't try too often either.

Are you considering looking at Nikons new camera the D810a? It is supposed to be excellent for astrophotography.
Hi Bryan

It's amazing when you shoot at night with the light of the moon. The moon gives a wonderful blue hue to the night sky at least to film and digital. The eye won't see it.

You should try stacking with your Nikons. Much more work than leaving the shutter open for one long exposure but well worth the results. MF by design makes this much harder although it could be done now with the 150/250 but still there is a need for some form of intervalometer.

Paul
 

Dogs857

New member
After thinking about it for several days now and much internal debate I have decided to give it up.

The IQ180 is going on sale shortly. I will sell the camera body and lenses separately later. If anybody is interested in this item please PM me. I will be putting it up for sale officially on this and other fora in the next couple of days.

I am very thankful to all of you here. It has not been an easy decision at all and I really appreciate all the help I have received.

Pradeep
Good luck with your future photography, I really hope you find something that will fit your needs and get the fun back into it for you. The best decision is always the one that makes you happy.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Agree, find something that makes you want to go out and shoot not something where it's a drag when you do. My famous line. This is supposed to be fun
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
I just shot a complete 9 hour day today and it was fun but glad I got paid for it. After 40 years it's not easy to have fun but I still do . Otherwise I would go flip burgers. Lol
 

Pradeep

Member
Have you also decided which system to use? Just out of interest.
I have the A7R for now plus my Canon gear.

I am seriously thinking of the Pentax 645Z. There is a kit available now with the 55 2.8 lens and then there are a lot of used lenses around. The whole thing should come in for less than $10K overall. I might get that while waiting for the Phase to sell, which could take time. If I don't like the Pentax I can still recover most of my money.

In the past I have been able to get back 75% or more of my investment on my cameras and lenses, including Leica. It is a nightmare that with the Phase system I will get less than 50% in just over a year. I think it is truly an overpriced item but I walked into it with my eyes open, so nobody else to blame.

The Pentax is unique in its price range, I am really surprised it is not the rage yet.
 
Last edited:

kdphotography

Well-known member
In general, if you think of photography equipment in terms of an investment in financial terms (e.g., getting 75% of money on sale) you're going to be sorely disappointed most all of the time. Don't think for a second that the Pentax is going to magically hold its value any better either. I've seen some pretty cheap offerings on the Pentax 645D of recent, less than 50% of new.

The point being is that I've found it best to look at photography equipment in terms of utility rather than financial return. If I want financial returns, I go to the stock market or other investment opportunities. It ain't in cameras. The utility or return that I get on my equipment is in generating income photographing for clients, and of course, the pure satisfaction I receive in my photographic endeavors. Nothing more, nothing less.

If a camera doesn't provide some utility (generate income or photographic satisfaction) it's time to part ways. Quite frankly, I think you're moving kinda quick and it really has this forum worried. You break up with your IQ180 and you're already looking to get together with the Pentax. You don't even know her. It's a rebound relationship. She's a whore. She's cheap and let's almost anyone use her. I think when the novelty wears off, you'll dump her too. And get a boat.

:D
 

Pradeep

Member
In general, if you think of photography equipment in terms of an investment in financial terms (e.g., getting 75% of money on sale) you're going to be sorely disappointed most all of the time. Don't think for a second that the Pentax is going to magically hold its value any better either. I've seen some pretty cheap offerings on the Pentax 645D of recent, less than 50% of new.

The point being is that I've found it best to look at photography equipment in terms of utility rather than financial return. If I want financial returns, I go to the stock market or other investment opportunities. It ain't in cameras. The utility or return that I get on my equipment is in generating income photographing for clients, and of course, the pure satisfaction I receive in my photographic endeavors. Nothing more, nothing less.



:D
Ken, I never went into Dante's inferno thinking about getting any financial rewards. Photography is absolutely the wrong 'business' in that sense, I have always known that. However, one does expect some of the equipment to hold value, at least for a year or two. Like the big lenses from Canon, even my M9 and M240, my Summilux lenses. They all cost a whole lot of money but are still worth a lot even after many years in some instances.

THe fact is that Phase is priced too high to begin with, which makes its resale value that much lower. They are still selling a lot of units, particularly in the far east (just like Leica is) so they are not going to do anything about the price structure for a while yet.

I may be a minority of one here, but I feel there is far too much hype and not enough substance with some of the 'high end' photo gear. Bit like clothing or other 'fine items' of personal use. Does a $10K watch give you more accurate time? Or is a Lacoste T-shirt more enduring than a no-name (they are both made in China anyway)? I can see the 'value' in automotives to an extent and can understand the 'prestige' factor in many of these things.

But do people buy a camera because it makes them look good or because it makes their pictures look good? I bought into the Leica dream and soon realized that it did not deliver what I had thought it would. Sold it, but a year later bought the M240 when the virtues of CMOS were being sung from the rooftops in the photography world. Found it wanting again.

I am not a pro, just a serious enthusiast and quite passionate about photography. I am not averse to spending money on it either, heck I've done a lot of that already, not just in cameras and lenses but all the other things that go with them. I want the best that money can buy and yet there is the law of diminishing returns. If it costs ten times more to get that extra 10% then it is not for me. Perhaps that is the crux of the matter and maybe I realize that too late in the game.

If a camera doesn't provide some utility (generate income or photographic satisfaction) it's time to part ways. Quite frankly, I think you're moving kinda quick and it really has this forum worried. You break up with your IQ180 and you're already looking to get together with the Pentax. You don't even know her. It's a rebound relationship. She's a whore. She's cheap and let's almost anyone use her. I think when the novelty wears off, you'll dump her too. And get a boat.

:D:D

Perhaps. Maybe it is justification of sorts. My first SLR was a Pentax, way back in the 80s (before that I had used a rangefinder, the Kodak Retina IIc for about 20 yrs). It is only fitting then that I should go back to it. :)

Which is why I do not mind the 'cheap whore' that the Pentax may be.

And as for boats, well, I'd rather drive my Tesla :D
 
In the past I have been able to get back 75% or more of my investment on my cameras and lenses, including Leica. It is a nightmare that with the Phase system I will get less than 50% in just over a year. I think it is truly an overpriced item but I walked into it with my eyes open, so nobody else to blame.

The Pentax is unique in its price range, I am really surprised it is not the rage yet.
But it is already the rage, at least among people who can afford something of this level, the D800 was much more affordable, even though $3000 is still a lot of cash for many people. The difference between the reception of these two cameras is noticeable though, for every mention of the Nikons and Sonys in the MF forum was someone else rolling their eyes at the proposition that a 35mm camera was somehow superior to their beloved MF systems, but the Pentax suffers no such polarity.

Regarding investment... besides running a cut-throat business like wedding photography, there are very few ways to actually make any money, photography is almost certainly for self-fulfillment more than anything else. You want your images to be the best, and so you pay for the privilege of having the best.

I'll just say that photography as a hobby isn't nearly as expensive as some of them are - your camera doesn't run on fuel, your lenses don't wear out, resale value isn't nearly as terrible as other kinds of gear, and the only consumable media is paper and ink if and when you choose to print something.
 

Don Libby

Well-known member
There seems at times a general disconnect between professionals and non-professionals and how we look at the camera systems we use (I know I'm guilty at times). Professionals look at their gear more as tools rather than cameras, lens, lights etc., and that can ever spread into the computer systems we use to produce the finished product. Professionals use camera systems to generate income. I've just offered a 40x30 image that I've decided to limit the printing to no more than 50 total. The lifetime sales of that one-image will generate in excess of $30,000 on the conservative side. I have another image that is nearing the end of its lifetime having just sold #22 out of #25 (a 30x60 that has also been licensed by Phase One for world wide use in their shows). The other aspect of a professional at lest in the US is that we get to write-off our tools off our income taxes. So professionals look at their systems differently from non-professionals.

Non-professionals buy into a system thinking that it great because others are using the same thing so it'll help me take stunning images as well. Okay that may be a little too harsh and over simplified.

Whether you're a professional or not you need to give the equipment a chance to prove it's worth. You can't expect to take a system right out of the box and go out and expect it to deliver. To use Ken's terms - you need to play with it a little. No system is perfect so you need to see what the warts are and how to work around them. Don't get discouraged if your new system won't put out the first time you use it - keep after it a while and soon it'll be treating you nice. Okay, enough of that visual.

Bottom line is that there's a difference between how we look at the systems we use. Is the equipment overpriced? It depends on what you use it for. I have never thought that on any of the systems I've used whether it be a camera, lens, computer or printer but then they all generate income.

This was just some random thoughts I've had running through my brain for awhile....

Don
 
I'd look towards something that you enjoy using----that makes you want to take the camera system out and use it. I'm just shaking my head at where this thread has gone with all its psuedo-academic (emphasis on pseudo) cerebral vomiting. If you're happy reading the DxO charts, stay at home read it online, sell all your cameras, save some $ and call it a day.

...

I think if I were in your quandary and actually read all the psuedo-cerebral DxO-it-was-on-the-internet-so-must-be-better-than-taking-actual-photos comments, I would just buy a boat.
dxomark score used to be a selling point for the IQ180 when it was first available. The IQ180 used to be the best in the list. Phase One's official site even used the dxomark score to promote the IQ180. It then got surpassed by the Sony CMOS sensor (the later D800E, and now the IQ250) in the metrics related to SNR.



You break up with your IQ180 and you're already looking to get together with the Pentax. You don't even know her. It's a rebound relationship. She's a whore. She's cheap and let's almost anyone use her. I think when the novelty wears off, you'll dump her too. And get a boat.

:D
In the (foreseen near) future the IQ180 might be cheap enough for almost anyone to use. Now it's already very affordable in the second-hand market.
 

kdphotography

Well-known member
I don't care who uses DxO in their marketing. It is of limited use, imho, except for pixel peepers. I like to go out and use my camera and half the fun is being able to work with and workaround purported limitations. :loco:

Read it again: If you're happy reading the DxO charts, stay at home read it online, sell all your cameras, save some $ and call it a day.:dh2:

Shoot what you want. Not a happy? Buy a boat.

:salute:
 

Don Libby

Well-known member
I don't care who uses DxO in their marketing. It is of limited use, imho, except for pixel peepers. I like to go out and use my camera and half the fun is being able to work with and workaround purported limitations. :loco:

Read it again: If you're happy reading the DxO charts, stay at home read it online, sell all your cameras, save some $ and call it a day.:dh2:

Shoot what you want. Not a happy? Buy a boat.

:salute:
Stop beating around the bush and tell us how you really feel Ken ;)
 

stephengilbert

Active member
Ken,

I'm intrigued by your boat idea.

Do you have any suggestions as to size, etc.?

Are larger boats better?

Please tell us more.

Thanks, Steve
 
Top