Let's begin a discussion on technical cameras

[Paul2660]

Hi Paul

Quick question, do you have shoot an LCC with 28HR when shooting straight on - no shift or rise? have you had any experience with 28 HR on the 180 or 280?

thanks so much

Phil

Phil:

Yes I shoot the LCC for even straight on shot, even with the CF installed. I have gotten away with a few shots where the color cast was not too extreme
and did not have solids (blue/grey/white) where the color cast always shows more. The 28mm without the CF will tend to show some noise in the corners unless you are overexposing a bit, and if you add a filter system to the lens without the CF, the vignetting becomes pretty harsh.

I have used the 28mm on a 180, and it worked great. On center, and 5mm of shfit. I actually pushed the lens to 7mm on one shoot and was able to use the shifts . I felt the LCC was very important on the 180 shots, as I did see a bit more color cast even on center. But details were amazing.

What I often do with the 28mm is shoot a single and then take a short pano from it with a crop. With the 180/280 this becomes even more simple as the greater amount of resolution really helps.

The 28mm will flare but not as bad as the 23mm or the 40mm. I have taken sunsets (shooting at the sun) with the 28 and many times the flare is not that bad, plus if you shoot one series with a finger blocking the sun the flare is not there (this is harder to do than one may think as you don't have a true view finder and Live View won't work here, so it takes some trial and error. You have to watch the 28mm when shooting where the sun is on your side, as that seems to me to the the worst time for flare.

I have modified a Lee hood, with their 95mm to 105mm filter adapter. This lets me have a ND filter in the the one slot and Lee's new 105mm CL-PL filter on the front of the hood. Their new filter is slim and thus won't vignette.

I can send you a couple of shots if you like, raw, with LCC. Just PM a email address. These will be from a 180.

Paul

 

[alajuela]

Phil:

Yes I shoot the LCC for even straight on shot, even with the CF installed. I have gotten away with a few shots where the color cast was not too extreme
and did not have solids (blue/grey/white) where the color cast always shows more. The 28mm without the CF will tend to show some noise in the corners unless you are overexposing a bit, and if you add a filter system to the lens without the CF, the vignetting becomes pretty harsh.

I have used the 28mm on a 180, and it worked great. On center, and 5mm of shfit. I actually pushed the lens to 7mm on one shoot and was able to use the shifts . I felt the LCC was very important on the 180 shots, as I did see a bit more color cast even on center. But details were amazing.

What I often do with the 28mm is shoot a single and then take a short pano from it with a crop. With the 180/280 this becomes even more simple as the greater amount of resolution really helps.

The 28mm will flare but not as bad as the 23mm or the 40mm. I have taken sunsets (shooting at the sun) with the 28 and many times the flare is not that bad, plus if you shoot one series with a finger blocking the sun the flare is not there (this is harder to do than one may think as you don't have a true view finder and Live View won't work here, so it takes some trial and error. You have to watch the 28mm when shooting where the sun is on your side, as that seems to me to the the worst time for flare.

I have modified a Lee hood, with their 95mm to 105mm filter adapter. This lets me have a ND filter in the the one slot and Lee's new 105mm CL-PL filter on the front of the hood. Their new filter is slim and thus won't vignette.

I can send you a couple of shots if you like, raw, with LCC. Just PM a email address. These will be from a 180.

Paul

Thank you so much Paul - very precise and informative response - I certainly would like to see the files. I will send you my work address as msn, won't accept large files.

Thank you again

best

Phil

 

[Don Libby]

Peter, care to share what you did to modify the Lee hood?

Don

 

[Pemihan]

Peter, care to share what you did to modify the Lee hood?

Don

Don, I think you mean Paul?
Not enough coffee? :sleep006:

 

[Paul2660]

Peter, care to share what you did to modify the Lee hood?

Don

Actually I have to give full credit to Wolfgang for this. I had been banging my head :banghead: for over a year on this, and had all the parts, but did not put it together in my head. Common for me.

The Lee Wide angle hood, will ship with:
1. no slots
2. 1 filter slot
3. 2 filter slots (they may not have this model anymore as it's so easy to just
add the parts after the fact)

Lee's wide angle rings stop at 82mm, they don't make an 86 or 95mm. Schneider/Lee made a "wide" angle ring @ 95mm but it was for the Schneider system and it's not a wide angle ring, in that it doesn't fit in the way the rest of the wide angle rings do, i.e. they actually move along side the lens barrel and make the ring almost flush so to reduce vignetting. Lee may have made a 95mm "wide angle" at one time, but they don't anymore and the ring that BH used to have listed is not a wide angle design, ( know this as I purhcased one and they changed out their website due to my issues).

You can't dremel down the inside enough to not allow vignetting as the rings are actually two pieces, and once you thin it down the ring wants to come apart not to mention you now have bare aluminum to paint or coat.

Lee makes a 95mm to 105mm adatper. This mounts over the CF of the 28mm Rodie perfectly. It has a screw down style adatper so it stays in place.

All you have to do is take a Lee hood with the 1 filter slot adapter, remove the standard filter slot adatper and screw back in the 95mm to 105mm adapter. This give you 1 4 x 4 or 4 x 6 slot and you can still mount the 105mm adapter ring to the front for a CL-PL. Even the Lee thin CL-PL will cause a bit of vignetting on a 5mm shift, but it's still fine on center.

Only issue--now your hood only fits the 28mm Rodie. So to adapt back, you have to take 5 minutes to unscrew the 95mm to 105mm adapter from the back of the hood, and put back the standard 1 slot that came with the hood.

This I use with wide angle adapter rings on my 35XL, 40Rodie, 60XL 90 and 120.

You could always pick up a 2nd hood, but carrying around 2 of them in the field is a bit of weight.

One other neat feature: of the Lee.

CI used to sell a great LCC plate, that can on a clip so you wear it around your neck. This fits into the standard filter slot of the Lee hood, so taking a LCC is really quick and hands free. If I am using a ND in the slot, I always take out the ND for the LCC, but leave on the CL-PL as all the ND should be doing is dropping light (if it's not plagued with color cast as some are)

You can also easily mount the standard Phase One LCC plate (which I still prefer to use) to the front of the hood with spring clips, one on each side. It just fits. You will have to watch for light leaks in the area between the hood and adapter ring as there is a small gap there, but I just cover that with a cloth.

This allows the hood to work as the LCC holder and it just makes things simpler for me.

I will try to get a shot up later today, as I know it's worthless without a pic.

Paul

 

[jagsiva]

In Barcelona at MWC, so missed a lot of the cool action on this refreshing thread. A few comments addressing several different posts...

1. LCC's taken with the "hard" edge showing can be problematic. They appear not just to affect the dark areas, but also have a strong halo around them. So had you shot without the hard edge in your frame, you would have had a larger FoV to work with.

2. Based on above, it is still not advised to shoot to the max shift available on the body disregarding the limits of the lens IC.

3. 40HR vs. 32HR - he 32HR can shift just as much. It is not quite as fragile as folks make it out to be, and perhaps a little sharper than the 40, and certainly less prone to flare. If people are interested, I can post samples with max shift on both. The biggest points for the 40HR over the 32HR are size, price and "can get away without CF".

4. Something that may not be quite so obvious as a benefit of tech cams, and perhaps why the other thread on CMOS/CCD took such a bad turn, is that not only are you "forced" to slow down in your workflow, but you take on a totally different perspective on the technology rat-race. I am on Phase now, but if I want to get a has CFV-50c back, my extra expense for a switch is only about $700 for the Arca 6x9-mamiya adapter. So, there really is no panic in having to change lenses, bodies etc. If phase comes out with a 120MP CMOS back without micro lenses, then perhaps Universalis or even a Monolith is in the cards, again, no issue with compatibility of my current lenses or accessories. At a little larger cost, if I decide to go switch my tech cam platform from Arca to Alpa or Cambo, my lenses are still the same lenses (I know Cambo will mount used lenses, but need to confirm for Alpa).

5. Outside of a few bits of the ocean, our little blue planet has been photographed to death. My take is that the only thing that separates me is what I can do differently - lighting, framing, perspective, resolution, colors. With the exception of lighting, a tech cam gives me more control of everything else, and that's why I have one, and it has certainly proven itself in use.

6. MWC - Not really a photo show, but given the "Convergence" mantra for the past 5 years, I'm sure some people are wondering. Lots of NFV/Virtualization/SDN/IoT blah blah blah. Saw the Dell XPS 13 - gorgeous screen, super light, still think the SP3 is better as a tethering tool for MFDB. Sony has some cool Android stuff that will give Apple run, no camera stuff in their booth.

 

[Chris Valites]

CI used to sell a great LCC plate, that can on a clip so you wear it around your neck. This fits into the standard filter slot of the Lee hood, so taking a LCC is really quick and hands free. If I am using a ND in the slot, I always take out the ND for the LCC, but leave on the CL-PL as all the ND should be doing is dropping light (if it's not plagued with color cast as some are)

We still do! The Pocket LCC is something we can't recommend enough to people.

In Barcelona at MWC, so missed a lot of the cool action on this refreshing thread. A few comments addressing several different posts...

1. LCC's taken with the "hard" edge showing can be problematic. They appear not just to affect the dark areas, but also have a strong halo around them. So had you shot without the hard edge in your frame, you would have had a larger FoV to work with.

Totally agree with this. I had been shooting to the edge, and ended up with some magenta shifts on my images as well as the haloing. I will say that I ended up with the shot in black and white anyways, and manually adjusting the haloing as best I could.

2. Based on above, it is still not advised to shoot to the max shift available on the body disregarding the limits of the lens IC.

Always shoot to the ability of the lens itself. No point in getting out beyond what the lens is capable of; at that point you're just throwing away data.

4. Something that may not be quite so obvious as a benefit of tech cams, and perhaps why the other thread on CMOS/CCD took such a bad turn, is that not only are you "forced" to slow down in your workflow, but you take on a totally different perspective on the technology rat-race. I am on Phase now, but if I want to get a has CFV-50c back, my extra expense for a switch is only about $700 for the Arca 6x9-mamiya adapter. So, there really is no panic in having to change lenses, bodies etc. If phase comes out with a 120MP CMOS back without micro lenses, then perhaps Universalis or even a Monolith is in the cards, again, no issue with compatibility of my current lenses or accessories. At a little larger cost, if I decide to go switch my tech cam platform from Arca to Alpa or Cambo, my lenses are still the same lenses (I know Cambo will mount used lenses, but need to confirm for Alpa).

Actually, ALPA will do it as well. I'm not sure on the pricing, but if you're seriously interested, let me know and we'll talk to them about it.

5. Outside of a few bits of the ocean, our little blue planet has been photographed to death. My take is that the only thing that separates me is what I can do differently - lighting, framing, perspective, resolution, colors. With the exception of lighting, a tech cam gives me more control of everything else, and that's why I have one, and it has certainly proven itself in use.

Totally on board with you. At this point, I'm sick of trying to create something so unique nobody has seen it before; I just want to create what I want to create. The options available with the resolution of the backs, combined with movements, is what sets even the Cambo WRC I've been using on hiking expeditions apart from anything I've used before.

 

[Don Libby]

I've recently begun thinking of getting a wider lens that my current HR40 as I was under the mistaken impression I'd be limited to less than 10mm movements while using either Mt Lee filter holder or newly acquired Lee wide-angle hood. I've been running movement tests for the past couple days and seeing movements out to approximately 8mm when the Lee hood was attached and 1 of the 2 filters slots filled. Frankly I wasn't liking what I was seeing and began to start looking at the 23 or 28 as a possible "1-shot" lens (super wide without movements).

All this changed today. I removed one of the two filter slots on the hood and took the camera out to test everything. Shooting center then 5 & 10mm left & right I first did the LCCs. Running the LCC files through C1 where I profiled the lens and created the LCc files for each shot. The files looked great, clean even color with no vignette even at 10mm (which is what I had seen before). Went back outside and shot a test image. I eventually stitched the 10mm files together (after running the LCC in C1). Great file! No distortion no vignette just a file that was perfect to process. The 10mm stitched file turned out close to 9" longer that the single centered file while the difference between the 5mm file is close to 3".

Bottom line is removing the seldom used 2nd filter slot made a world of difference. I also tried the same test without filters or hood and think I might be able to go close to 15mm since the LCC shot cleaned up nicely.

In the end it would appear I can save some cash and while a 28 or 23 would be "nice" to have it isn't and urgent need to have as I once thought.

Don

 

[Paul2660]

Yes that 2nd slot adds quite a bit to the thickness. I use the Lee Wide Angle with 1 slot and you can easily get to 15mm of shift with the 40 Rodie. Can't rise much from 15mm due to the hard vignette of the IC indicator.

You can also add the Lee 105mm on the front of the hood and still get about 14mm of shift. This gives you the one filter slot for a ND and a CL-PL in front. Using the Lee CL-PL in the slot is hard since to rotate it you have to rotate the hood.

Love the 40mm for sure.

Paul

 

[GrahamWelland]

In the end it would appear I can save some cash and while a 28 or 23 would be "nice" to have it isn't and urgent need to have as I once thought.

Don

Ok Don, I'm bookmarkng this post and coming back to it later ... because never in the history of GetDPI has any thread ended like this and not been proven to fall victim to Dante's GAS :ROTFL:

 

[Dogs857]

Don

I have the 24XL on a P45+ (roughly equal to a 28mm of FF I guess) and it is certainly a "nice to have" rather than a "have to have" lens as it is more often than not too wide.

Still, I'm glad I have it though oke:

 

[Don Libby]

Ok Don, I'm bookmarkng this post and coming back to it later ... because never in the history of GetDPI has any thread ended like this and not been proven to fall victim to Dante's GAS :ROTFL:

So true and we're now up to 2-pages!

However it isn't the end of the thread, just the end of my testing the usefulness of one of my lenses. I'll come up with something else shortly either that or Ken or you or Steve will. :angel:

 

[tjv]

My problem is that I need to replicate my two favourite focal lengths on the CFV-50c (that I'm 95% sure I will buy soon) that I use on 6x7cm film. I have the long end covered, but to get my preferred wide angle coverage I'd need to pony up for the 32HR. I don't really care about the physical size of the lens, but the cost is substantial compared to the 40HR. Eventually it'd be nice to have both the 32HR and 40HR, but I'd only be able to buy one to begin with. My wallet is telling me to settle for the 40HR in the meantime, but my brain tells me it'd be a strain on my shooting style and frustrate me.

 

[GMB]

So true and we're now up to 2-pages!

However it isn't the end of the thread, just the end of my testing the usefulness of one of my lenses. I'll come up with something else shortly either that or Ken or you or Steve will. :angel:

Hear! Hear! I am not into this at present because I hardly have time ti put my existing systems to good use but I know one day I will end up with a back and a tech camera. So please keep the discussion and advice coming.

 

[GrahamWelland]

I don't think that this thread overall is dead at all, just Don's statement about not wanting a 23/28mm lens which of course is ridiculous here at GetDPI as we all know He will succumb at some point to a wider lens :ROTFL:

 

[kdphotography]

...Eventually it'd be nice to have both the 32HR and 40HR, .....

Having the right attitude makes all the difference in Dante's Inferno...:ROTFL:

 

[stephengilbert]

How do we know that was even posted by Don?

It's the kind of amusing comment one would expect from an imposter, like Ken.

Or maybe it was posted by Don, but he omitted the emoticon:

 

[Don Libby]

I've learned that there's going to be a 23mm out from Atlanta next month to temp me. Going to be an interesting time in Tahoe...

 

[Dogs857]

:watch:

Make sure you take plenty of cash.

 

[rga]

Along with leaving the back cap on, add the on going (still!!) black frames from not releasing the lever that holds the shutter open for focusing prior to shooting. The two combined account for about 1/3 of my "exposures"...
Bob

A couple more things;

The lenses have a back cap, remember to take that off. If I had a dollar for every time I have shot black frames and spent ages checking everything wondering what the hell has gone wrong :cussing: Take the back cap off.

The shutter. I religiously now check my shutter is fired before I try and open the lens for framing. This is very important as you can damage them and I have been in the unfortunate position of forgetting and having my 24XL stuck in a kind of half working half not mode. Luckily I got it rectified, but it was scary. I always check now, and I only cock my shutter just before I fire. No changing settings after the shutter is cocked.

For my back a one shot release cable is a godsend. Get one and stop whinging about how much they cost. It will save you a lot of frustration in the long run.