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Medium format use: Is photoshop indispensable ?

satybhat

Member
I'm sure this topic has been hammered out quite a lot.
I have myself thought seriously on this, trawled the forums and pulled hair out.
Maybe it's me, but I'm just annoyed that a software product that was so cleverly made by a company that was hugely in profit already, would now want to become greedy and start a subscription service (a costly one at that) to maintain "cashflow".
No, I don't believe that this method prevents piracy. Anyone with an ability to read and use google search can easily find keygens, hacks, cracks and such-like even now, even with CC.
Being an artist, being moral and ethical and for something like this, I am not willing to break the rules.
Adobe has likely already realised that this subscription method does not prevent piracy, but the inherent company red-tape and self-justification will prevent a roll-back anytime soon. Maybe not. Your opinions may vary and I would be interested to read those.
In any case, my question is quite specific: For the work that we do, layers, luminosity masks, cmyk print profiles, etc etc, does Photoshop CS6 / CC maintain its absolute indispensability? But of course I use C1pro8, but it has its limitations.

Have any users here switched over to any other programs that could do the same as photoshop (or better) ?
Thanks in advance.
 

Don Libby

Well-known member
I use a combination of Capture One & Photoshop CC2014. I'm slowly beginning to do the brunt of the work (at least initially) in C1 however I find I still use PS. I also have the Nik software installed so that's another reason I continue to use and like PS. I've been using PS since vr 2 or 3 so I'm much more comfortable with it than C1.

As far as the whole cloud subscription issue goes, I'm on my second year without any issues which include various computers and traveling.
 

engel001

Member
An older version of PS is all I need. For me the last upgrade I made was CS5 and that is sufficient; I don't intend to upgrade PS for a long time. That said, you could import CI Tiff files into LR and also use your favorite plugins there (Nik, Topaz, etc.).
 

Paul2660

Well-known member
I love the subscription service. For 11.00 a month a can run the latest code from Adobe on both macs and PC's. The cost is way less then paying the 550 or so I would be paying every year and not be limited to running the software on only 2 machines.

I wish c1 would go that route.

As for workflow I use C1, LR , Premier Peo and CC In my daily work.

Paul
 

mediumcool

Active member
Only you can say what is indispensable for you. But I really don’t understand the fervent opposition to subscriptions; I am a pensioner and can readily afford $2.28AU a week to rent CS6 (my OSX version doesn’t support CC) and LR4 (even though I don’t like it or use it!). And the subscription is tax-deductible for those who make any money from photography. I consider it a bargain, having paid for a number of upgrades since v3.

I subscribe because there are some things that Pixelmator cannot do, or do as well as PS; I much prefer Pixelmator as it is lean, fast and very Mac-like, whereas PS is now a cross-platform–compromised and bloated mess. I remember when it shipped on a floppy disk!

But my main axe for photography remains Capture One—it gets me most of the way there, with PS and Pixelmator for retouching, distortion control and final scaling.
 

mediumcool

Active member
I love the subscription service. For 11.00 a month a can run the latest code from Adobe on both macs and PC's. The cost is way less then paying the 550 or so I would be paying every year and not be limited to running the software on only 2 machines.

I wish c1 would go that route.
Paul
You can subscribe to C1 these days, but I don’t know about the cross-platform situation.

ADDED:
I worked out sometime ago that the cost of subscription for C1 was about the same as I had paid for upgrades—I started with C1v5 when there was a very good promotion having a go at LR. Need to update my OS from 10.6.8 before I can upgrade to C1v8.
 
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GregMO

Member
Adobe's only concern is increasing shareholder value..nothing more.
I use CS6 and will just stay with that. No interest in renting.
Some of the additions from my CS4 to CS6 jump were nice, but I don't see much more benefit on the continued updates with CC.
My files are from scanned LF film which start at 1.3 - 6 GB files before layers, ex. I am not aware any software other then Photoshop on the market that can handle large files.
 

mediumcool

Active member
Adobe's only concern is increasing shareholder value..nothing more.
Adobe does have concerns about supplying products and services that people, businesses and governments will want to use and pay for, so that’s not, um, correct.

I use CS6 and will just stay with that. No interest in renting.
Good for you; I use CS6 too.

Some of the additions from my CS4 to CS6 jump were nice, but I don't see much more benefit on the continued updates with CC.
I am not clairvoyant, so … :D

My files are from scanned LF film which start at 1.3 - 6 GB files before layers, ex. I am not aware any software other then Photoshop on the market that can handle large files.
As long as you have a computer, OS and application software that can adequately handle the work, you’re sitting on velvet. Of course, Adobe has lost you as a customer. One justification for the subscription model is that it evens out cash-flow for the vendor—Adobe’s revenue has slumped since its peak a few years back, but it is increasing as the new model gets taken up.
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
When I consider what my gear cost in the first place the incremental subscription cost for PS CC 2014 etc is inconsequential. I don't really understand the reluctance to use the best tools when considering the overall workflow and expenses we already pay for. Ok, I get that people are averse to subscriptions generally but in the enterprise commercial software world (which pays my salary), software comes with mandatory maintenance for ongoing support and upgrades.
 
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jagsiva

Active member
I have the monthly 11$ subscription and as long as they offer it, I think it is good value. I would easily have paid this amount for a new upgrade. Of course, the 50$ a month thing is a different story.

Back to your question, I do as much as I can in C1. Version 8 is getting there in terms of local adjustments. I also find working on the RAW file gives me better results.

I use C1 mostly if I need to use Nik or some other plugin, for stitching and for printing. I can do all these with pretty much in LR if I want to.

Longer-term, I'd like C1 to offer a capability to apply LCC and stitch a RAW file and keep it in one file or a "file package" as they do today, except they currently do not support stitching across multiple files. If printing was improved along with this, I would have no need for PS.
 

GregMO

Member
Adobe does have concerns about supplying products and services that people, businesses and governments will want to use and pay for, so that’s not, um, correct.



Good for you; I use CS6 too.



I am not clairvoyant, so … :D



As long as you have a computer, OS and application software that can adequately handle the work, you’re sitting on velvet. Of course, Adobe has lost you as a customer. One justification for the subscription model is that it evens out cash-flow for the vendor—Adobe’s revenue has slumped since its peak a few years back, but it is increasing as the new model gets taken up.

From CS4 to CS6, the spot healing tool is much improved & the distortion correction tools do a better job of holding pixel quality.
95% of my needs are done with masks & adjustment layers which have remained pretty much the same.
The Content Aware Fill feature with CS6 has limited use IMO and complex object removal & re-building of a scene is best done manually.
Tony Kuyper has a nice set of Luminosity Mask actions with a full panel for CS6, but cant fully be loaded in CS4.
For me, I dont see much benefit going forward with CC & like you said, as long as the computer, OS & software program can handle the file load..I'm set.
 

Shashin

Well-known member
My dislike for the Adobe model is they are effectively making me lease my work from them. In order to get into the house I built, I have to pay rent on the keys.
 

jianghai

Member
When I consider what my gear cost in the first place the incremental subscription cost for PS CC 2014 etc is inconsequential. I don't really understand the reluctance to use the best tools when considering the overall workflow and expenses we already pay for. Ok, I get that people are averse to subscriptions generally but in the enterprise commercial software world (which pays my salary), software comes with mandatory maintenance for ongoing support and upgrades.
I think the issue is that not everyone can justify continual updates on photoshop. While the pricing structure may be equivalent to the traditional model if one upgrades every time an update is issued, this is not true for the more typical user, who may have skipped a couple of versions in between, and who could save money by skipping a few versions (i.e. perhaps from CS to CS4 to CS6).

In effect, what adobe is doing is *forcing* all their customers to become the same as the first case – where everyone is forced to continually pay for incremental improvements rather than having the choice to upgrade or hold off. That's what irritates most.
 

Wayne Fox

Workshop Member
I love the subscription service. For 11.00 a month a can run the latest code from Adobe on both macs and PC's. The cost is way less then paying the 550 or so I would be paying every year and not be limited to running the software on only 2 machines.

Paul
Agreed. When you look at cloud services in general and what you get with the Adobe Photographers pack (PS, LR, dropbox like storage space, sync between computers, plus a few other perks) it’s a steal. I pay $13 a month just to play a stupid computer game that I probably need counseling for to try and overcome the addiction, my rationalization is I’m doing that instead of watching tv like many others. I pay $6 a month for Neat Cloud, which is amazing and something I cannot live without. So $10 a month to Adobe for all I get and avoiding big upgrade payments every year or so ... no problem. I don’t begrudge adobe at all for trying to ensure they are economically viable.

I use C1, LR, and PS. Nearly every single image of mine ends up making a trip to Photoshop. So to answer the question, for me yes. If I had to choose between the 3 and could only use 1 (thankfully I don’t have to) it would be using Bridge/PS/ACR.

But it could be a few more features and improvements in LR (such as better sharpening and better healing) might change things, but I”m not sure I could say the same about C1. I struggle with it’s workflow, seems cumbersome and complicated, and I much prefer LR’s approach to local adjustments. I use C1 some of the time because I can milk more quality out of my IQ180 files, but quite often LR handles the job just fine.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
If there is a post program that reaches as deep as PS does, I'm not aware of it.

A commercial retoucher once told me that you can get the basics of PS down in a reasonable amount of time, the rest will take a lifetime to fully understand, if at all. I now believe he was right.

The cumulative time I've spent mastering what I need from PS is part of its value. As I progressed, I never really ran out of program to keep pace. Just recently a retoucher showed me a new way to do something that would have saved me a zillion hours in past.

I am a LR user, so the subscription that gets me LR and PS for $11 a month seems a bargain. I already own PS-6 as a back-up if I can't afford that $11 some day in future ... but if that ever happened, I'd have bigger problems than a $11 subscription.

- Marc
 

fotografz

Well-known member
My dislike for the Adobe model is they are effectively making me lease my work from them. In order to get into the house I built, I have to pay rent on the keys.
I suppose you could apply that thinking to a lot of things.:rolleyes:

We may own a TV, computer, phone, but we "lease" it's use from the power company, cell company and cable company.

Heck, even if you own your own car, you are "leasing" it's use from the Oil companies.

- Marc:)
 

gazwas

Active member
I refuse to pay the subscription charges to Adobe but not because I'm apposed to subscription services. Can someone please tell me apart from the background save feature in CS6 has Adobe released any must have new tools, performance enhancements or quality improvements since my last payed upgrade (or probably since CS3) that make CC a must have upgrade?

I'm not sure of the compulsive need to have the latest Adobe "code" on my machine, and pay monthly for it when it offers no added benefit over CS6 (which still receives camera updates)?

So please this is a genuine question, what does paying a monthly fee for CC give me over CS6 that is making all the posters in this topic so bemused why us none payers haven't signed up already???
 

torger

Active member
Subscription is the future regardless of what we think about it. Adobe is early out because they have a strong position, and their software is so mature they can't just add more and more features, but more will follow. If I was a pro I would pay and use PS. As an enthusiast photographer with low volume work I use alternative tools though. Photoline instead of Photoshop and Rawtherapee instead of Lightroom or Capture One, and various small specialised tools. I can get high end results just as with the standard tools, but it takes a bit more work I guess.
 

Wayne Fox

Workshop Member
I refuse to pay the subscription charges to Adobe but not because I'm apposed to subscription services. Can someone please tell me apart from the background save feature in CS6 has Adobe released any must have new tools, performance enhancements or quality improvements since my last payed upgrade (or probably since CS3) that make CC a must have upgrade?

I'm not sure of the compulsive need to have the latest Adobe "code" on my machine, and pay monthly for it when it offers no added benefit over CS6 (which still receives camera updates)?

So please this is a genuine question, what does paying a monthly fee for CC give me over CS6 that is making all the posters in this topic so bemused why us none payers haven't signed up already???
I don’t care if anyone signs up. It’s more about those that don’t sign up seem to think Adobe is ripping people off and it violates some ethical principle of doing business so they are making sure everyone knows why they don’t sign up. simple fact is it’s a really good deal.

If you are using LR and PS, then you pay $5 a month each to use them, and there is a lot more to the CC cloud than just using those. Sure maybe you don’t need them, but how much cheaper could it be?

As far as CS6 vs CC there are several features, but to me the most important is the ability to use ACR as a filter, and if I do it on a smart object it becomes editable. Interface elements are vastly improved (no more little tiny dialog boxes for most things), healing and and patch tool are improved and better, smart sharpening added some functionality and is improved. Speed wise I can’t really say because it’s been so long since I used CS 6, but CC 2014 seems snappier than the original PS CC. There are a ton of other features, but as photographers we only tend to use a fraction of what it offers so upgrades may not provide much usefulness.

But adobe does seem to be enhancing the product constantly. Here’s a list of things added to PS CC since it was released and at the bottom a list comparing features with older versions of PS.

things move ahead but certainly if what someone is using is getting the job done and they want to stay there fine. I don’t think CS6 ACR will support all new cameras forever, at some point adobe will cut it off. Not to force people to do anything but hard to finance support of something that doesn’t offer any revenue to offset the expense of providing that support. And some day processor and OS advancements will create hardware that will probably not run CS 6. Nothing new with that, I’ve tossed tons of old software that won’t run on anything anymore.
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
I just don't get it. Bitching and moaning about $11/month when that's less than a glass of wine in a bar, probably way less than people spend on coffee a week (I'm being charitable - my coffee friends do more than that a day), the price of a single lunch, or ... Well you get the point. In return you get ongoing support of the ultimate version of PS/LR and let's face it you probably already have that perpetual license for CS5/6 or earlier anyway so it's not like you'll never be able to open your files.
 
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