Ideal MFD travel kit

[mjr]

Algrove man, it's not personal, people like different things, it's all good. There are choices and budgets and technology, buy what you want and enjoy it, if you find the kit that helps you make killer photographs and enjoy the process than more power to you.

All systems have benefits and weaknesses, if there was one system that did everything then that would be boring too. You can buy a Z and older lenses, you can buy an S and a contax adapter and have amazing zeiss af lenses for next to nothing, there are choices for everyone. If your hand gets tired holding an S but not a Z then all good, I never understand the point of defending your choices, who cares whether anyone agrees with what you get, it's just pointless to be defensive.

Enjoy whatever works for you!

Mat

 

[Paratom]

Have you ever used a 645Z? I have used an S 006. The S tired my hand much worse than I would have thought from a DSLR like camera . The S with its 37MP is now hardly MF in MP against the Nikon and Sonys at 36MP, albeit in a smaller format (which is why we prefer MF anyway). Since I often crop having any extra MP goes a long way toward the end result. Like on many counts Leica is behind the technology power curve, but ahead of the pricing curve. Believe me I know since I have owned until recently around 70 M and R lenses and still own many M lenses and M bodies.

Now, let's compare pricing since you say the Pentax 25 is expensive at $5000. Well, the comparable Leica 24 is priced at $9250! The 75/2.8 Pentax I got for $600 (even though I prefer the Pentax 55/2.8 with weather sealing) and the Leica 70/2.5 is priced at $5000. The Pentax 90/2.8 macro, weather sealed with shake reduction, is $4500 and the Leica 100/2.0 although not a macro and f2.0 is $8000 whereas the 120/2.5 macro is $7250.

The 30-90 Leica is $11,750 and is a nice lens since I have used it. I have the 28-45 Pentax at $5k which is weather sealed with shake reduction and I have used it hand held with stellar results.

Hey, we each have our preferences, but dollar for dollar, the Pentax is the way to go especially since it is at the cutting edge of MF technology for a while and is giving Pjase and Hasselblad a run for their money what with using the same sensor and getting more from it than those other two.

On Lula just read carefully Micael Reichmann's essay on using the 645Z. He makes extremely compelling arguments backed up with his facts, findings and 30+ years of user experience with every camera you could buy in that 30 year span of time..

HI there,
I only have handled the 645z for half an hour at Photokina, thats it. I have owned and used a Pentax K5,K5iis and K3 and I believe the AF of the 645z is similar to those cameras. I spent a lot of time with trying to adjust AF-fine-adjustment without being totally succesfull. I also checked out 3 16-50mm and each one was different. Thats why I dont trust in quality control of Pentax lenses. (And yes, I also have owned Leica-M lenses which I needed to send in for adjustment, so I dont say Leica is perfect)
My own impression is more important to me than that of some internet reviewers, so I know what I prefer.
I don't say the S is a better product for everybody but I do know it suits me better. I just try to post pros and cons and my own experience and opinion.
If you feel the Pentax 645 is more comfortable to hold and if you are happy with the lenses,...perfect.

I don't believe the number of pixel is the criteria of being medium format, IMO it is the sensor size. I don't even need 36MP, I would happily use the S if it would have just 24MP.

Nothing against the 645z. You prefer the Pentax, I prefer the S. If it was just about bang for the buck we should probably both use a Canon 6d or a Nikon 600. We can always discuss between very expensive and even more than very expensive.
I repeat myself, I believe both are good systems, the Pentax is priced lower, the Leica has more consistent lens quality, and the user interface is quite different.

 

[Shashin]

If budget is not the issue, I think the biggest difference between the Pentax and Leica MF cameras is the format. Do you prefer 4:3 or 3:2? Personally, I prefer a 4:3 camera. I know others that get along with 3:2 better. But I have found the format a not so insignificant factor.

 

[iiiNelson]

If budget is not the issue, I think the biggest difference between the Pentax and Leica MF cameras is the format. Do you prefer 4:3 or 3:2? Personally, I prefer a 4:3 camera. I know others that get along with 3:2 better. But I have found the format a not so insignificant factor.

Yeah I agree and it depends on what you shoot more. I think for portraits 4:3 seems a lot more natural but when shooting wides for landscape 3:2 (or even 16:9) seems more natural to my eyes.

Regarding the Leica S v. the 645z. The Pentax has the more advanced sensor. The Leica has the most technically advanced lenses. I wouldn't kick either "out of bed" as the saying goes. It's like choosing between Scarlet Johanssen or Beyonce (for a pop culture analogy.) For use with flash I'd probably go with the Leica. For natural light the Pentax... Personally speaking.

Neither is wrong just about how you envisioned the picture in your head.

 

[algrove]

HI there,
I only have handled the 645z for half an hour at Photokina, thats it. I have owned and used a Pentax K5,K5iis and K3 and I believe the AF of the 645z is similar to those cameras. I spent a lot of time with trying to adjust AF-fine-adjustment without being totally succesfull. I also checked out 3 16-50mm and each one was different. Thats why I dont trust in quality control of Pentax lenses. (And yes, I also have owned Leica-M lenses which I needed to send in for adjustment, so I dont say Leica is perfect)
My own impression is more important to me than that of some internet reviewers, so I know what I prefer.
I don't say the S is a better product for everybody but I do know it suits me better. I just try to post pros and cons and my own experience and opinion.
If you feel the Pentax 645 is more comfortable to hold and if you are happy with the lenses,...perfect.

I don't believe the number of pixel is the criteria of being medium format, IMO it is the sensor size. I don't even need 36MP, I would happily use the S if it would have just 24MP.

Nothing against the 645z. You prefer the Pentax, I prefer the S. If it was just about bang for the buck we should probably both use a Canon 6d or a Nikon 600. We can always discuss between very expensive and even more than very expensive.
I repeat myself, I believe both are good systems, the Pentax is priced lower, the Leica has more consistent lens quality, and the user interface is quite different.

Just about the 16-50 lens you used on the 645Z. It is probably one of the worst FL to use in that it is not a current built lens. The 55/2.8, 28-45, 90 macro and the now to be rereleased 25. I love my 25, but they have stopped making it for the time being I am told.

As for bang for the buck, I vote for the Leica C. Amazing little beast.

 

[GrahamWelland]

If budget is not the issue, I think the biggest difference between the Pentax and Leica MF cameras is the format. Do you prefer 4:3 or 3:2? Personally, I prefer a 4:3 camera. I know others that get along with 3:2 better. But I have found the format a not so insignificant factor.

I agree. It's part of why I shoot MF as 4:3 or 6:7 or even 6:6 seem natural to my eye. 3:2 only works in landscape orientation for me.

 

[Paratom]

Just about the 16-50 lens you used on the 645Z. It is probably one of the worst FL to use in that it is not a current built lens. The 55/2.8, 28-45, 90 macro and the now to be rereleased 25. I love my 25, but they have stopped making it for the time being I am told.

As for bang for the buck, I vote for the Leica C. Amazing little beast.

No, I used that lens on the K5IIs. I wanted to find a good sample but never did.
The 20-40 was fine, the 50-135 needed a new AF motor to finally work, the 31/1.8 was great besides some CA wide open, overall my 35mm experience with Pentax did not really increase my trust in Pentax lenses, some very nice lenses but more sample variations than I had expected, at least for he 35mm lenses.

The 645 lenses might be different. I read the 90mm should be a very good lens as well.

 

[jaree]

FWIW, ignore the prices of Leica S2 lenses that some are quoting here, i.e. Leica 70/2.5 is priced at $5000 whereas the 120/2.5 macro is $7250....

You can get EXCELLENT used copies of Leica 70/2.5 for around $3,000 and 120/2.5 for around $4,000. S 30-90 zoom is a bit harder to come by used, but can be had for about $8,200 or less. How do I know all this? Well, I have personally bought the S lens trio of 35/70/180 for $8,800 and 120/2.5 for $4k. I am talking of non-CS versions.

I bought a used S2 body, with 1 year Leica warranty for $9k - that was more than one year ago. Now S2 bodies can be had for under $7k. Just wanted to give data points so the OP can make the appropriate choice.

 

[algrove]

Of course, all lenses from just about any company can be had in the 50-60% range of new, Penatx also. I bought my 90 macro from Japan for $3k whereas its priced at $4500. My lens looks new to me and never used.

 

[satybhat]

Thanks for the responses so far.
From the looks of it, it is very likely that I will go for a Leica S system.
Have to offload a lot of M gear for that
On that note, I would like to hear from anyone with experience what they think about the 30-90 zoom on the S (006). As I understand it, the CCD sensor will limit the usefulness in cloudy / shady situations. There is not a lot of information out there about it, on the S section of Leica forum, it has both been maligned and praised. Its also quite pricey TBH. The option is to go for the 70 and the new luscious 100 (with only a 2K difference). Any thoughts?

 

[mjr]

Satybhat

Don't be too caught up on low light performance, I have been using mine every day for the last 4 months in the far North of Sweden, we didn't have sun for over a month and only an hour of lighter sky in the day, temperatures down to -35c and regularly below -20c, the S performed amazingly! Cloudy or shady is never going to be a problem, I do shoot a lot on a tripod when it's dark but normal day conditions are no problem at all.

I haven't tried the zoom so can't comment, it would be very interesting on the 007 when it's released, I would likely never take it off!

This is ISO 800, handheld, jumped out of the car, focussed and shot before they ran off, this is pretty much dark!



This is 4 seconds at ISO 800



This is ISO 400 in a horrific storm, handheld, no light and wide open with the 100



These are just personal shots processed in a way I like, I'm sure others would do things completely differently so please don't take this as me trying to show what the S can do, just what it can do for me.

Get one, shoot with it and enjoy!

Mat

 

[satybhat]

I would like to thank everyone for their inputs here.
After due consideration, I plonked down some hard cash (after getting rid of my entire M kit) into a Leica S(006) kit (70cs and 100 cron)
I did handle the Pentax 645z as well, this seems like an impressive outfit, however I was completely floored by the handling of the Leica.
I had an opportunity to compare two 36-24 prints of the same subject matter (landscape and portraits) done by the same lab and shot at identical times. While I do not wish to raise any controversy here, I must admit that despite the high resolution of Pentax and similar software conversions, print profiling etc, the Leica shots very marginally more pleasing to the eye.
So thanks again, I'm off to Sydney tonight and will carry the S2+100 cron along !!!

 

[algrove]

Congrats. You are happy and that's what counts.

Is there a way to elaborate on the lenses used on each system in the side by side shots and then printed 24x36?

 

[satybhat]

120 Cs and 90 macro, I think