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So, where is the Leica S2?

Stuart Richardson

Active member
Well, I am not so sure -- if you want R lenses to work on the S2, it would have to have a flange to focal plane distance of at least 46mm or less...this is very unlikely for a medium format camera. If the R10 was to be backwards compatible without the same mount, it would have to meet the same criteria. Designing a "mechanotronic" adapter that is 1 or 2mm wide would not be an easy task. It is unlikely that Leica would design the flange to focal distance to be much smaller than it already is in the Leica R system...

Personally, I think they will either fit on natively, or not be supported. My bet is that they will fit on natively. The Leica R mount is fairly big and fairly from from the film plane for 35mm, so there should be some good room to work with.
 
RobMac wrote:
An R10 that would take existing glass would INCREASE the value of used R lenses (to a degree given small market) and while you'd want to reduce existing inventory of MF glass, doing so at fire sale prices in whole lots makes little sense - unless you have a real need for cash, or you see no value in the inventory going fwd.[/QUOTE]

Very good point, Rob.
 

robmac

Well-known member
Good points - oh well, was a nice idea while it lasted. :)


Well, I am not so sure -- if you want R lenses to work on the S2, it would have to have a flange to focal plane distance of at least 46mm or less...this is very unlikely for a medium format camera. If the R10 was to be backwards compatible without the same mount, it would have to meet the same criteria. Designing a "mechanotronic" adapter that is 1 or 2mm wide would not be an easy task. It is unlikely that Leica would design the flange to focal distance to be much smaller than it already is in the Leica R system...

Personally, I think they will either fit on natively, or not be supported. My bet is that they will fit on natively. The Leica R mount is fairly big and fairly from from the film plane for 35mm, so there should be some good room to work with.
 

carstenw

Active member
Three things come to mind:

1) I think Leica sold the remaining R stock to SH Photo to raise some cash, because apparently normal sales had dropped off a cliff. The 1 1/2 year delay means that the stuff would otherwise just sit around, and would then at the end only be sold at a reduced price *anyway*, due to the missing AF. This way, the stuff is gone, the money is in the bank, and the news has been announced. Loose ends wrapped up.

2) Although R glass would unlikely work on the S2, not only due to flange distance but also due to the smaller image circle, S2 glass might well work on the R10. It wouldn't be the normal way of working or shopping, but if the two systems share so much, then an adapter in that direction would make sense for people who already own the S system, and wanted to use a lens or two on the R.

3) I don't see any particular reason why the R10 shouldn't also get/support CS glass! Traditionally this is not a characteristic of 35mm systems, but it is also traditionally a weakness of the platforms, and one reason pros move to MF. This could be exactly the edge Leica needs to make the R compelling over the Canikon competition.
 

robmac

Well-known member
That's the kicker - no value in the inventory for the foreseeable future. Otherwise, given the meager cash that would have resulted (SH is making a profit at 50% of list, so their price was GOOD) wouldn't be worth it.

Then there's the instant kick to the jewels existing R owners just took on the value of their glass. "Hum, new 100 APO (or 90 AA) with full warranty for $2100, and you want how much for yours...?"

That said, despite management's sporadic mutterings on the matter, I'm pretty well convinced the R line is dead.

If the new Chairman (to take over the role from Dr. K) I read about somewhere coming from Zeiss (?) is true... it is a tried and true management practice to hang decisions no one will like around the neck of the new guy.
 

PeterA

Well-known member
I have been whiplashed a few times over the last year buying stuff. Shortly after finalising a complete kit of R lenses - Leica started dithering and obfuscating about the R10. Then announced an S2 then started dithering about telling R users wether lenses would port over then internet chatter about thow they cant just let R lenses not be compatible..

I dumped the lot at significant nominal cost and switched to H3D11-39. a few months later Hasselblad halved prices. A recent switch into an Hy6/75LV from P45+/Mamiya amount see the manufacturer of the Hy6 body shut shop.*more on this another time...

So I have had an interesting time of it. Fortunately the appreciation the $US has saved my bacon because I wa sable to offload gear down here at $AUD prices which reflect the global used market prices in $US terms translated to Aussie. In effect I was buying gear without ever negotiating prices from people in the US - because @ over 90cents in the dollar it was pretty much parity.

When I sold the gear here a few months later - the $AUD had depreciated by over 40% versus the $US. So I actuallty made a profit on a whole bunch of stuff I had bought.

Truth is ( for me) this camera lens caper is a bit of fun - a distraction whilst I watch the world melt every day and listen to CEO's in my boardroom hungry for cash etc etc etc..I have not participated in ANY capiutal raising down her eand ther ehave been a LOT.

People - start thinking about what the world is looking like and what the world is going to look like a year from now..

Wether Leica or any MF company survives over the next 2 years is NOT a given. No company cares about anything now except cutting any costs that arent 100% necessary and focusing on a strategy that will allow them to survive.

You have seen halving in prices from Hasselblad, a buy a P+ and get 5 lenses free from Phase One..you will see more of this clear the decks -and Leica is now doing it with a dead system called the R system. Man I can buy an F430 at 50% list price ( with 'demo' mileage ) - anyone can - want a Bentley Continental GT?- sure no problem at 50% markdown - easay done!


Are we getting the picture?

All this is a distraction - the camera we have in our hands today is just as good as it was yesterday and will do exactly the same job as the you beaut new stuff beeing touted around.

At the top most people's dollar is worth 50cents, at the bottom a dollar is worth $10. We are heading into a time that will reveal once in a lifetime investment opportunities -if you are disciplined enough to have a $1 left.

Leica have to do somethign that isnt in their nature or culture and for sure wasnt in their business plan - they will have to deliver quality, volume and price - or die.

I would short the stock if I could - they have no hope of doing all three.

Cheers!
 

carstenw

Active member
I have been whiplashed a few times over the last year buying stuff. Shortly after finalising a complete kit of R lenses - Leica started dithering and obfuscating about the R10. Then announced an S2 then started dithering about telling R users wether lenses would port over then internet chatter about thow they cant just let R lenses not be compatible..

I dumped the lot at significant nominal cost and switched to H3D11-39. a few months later Hasselblad halved prices. A recent switch into an Hy6/75LV from P45+/Mamiya amount see the manufacturer of the Hy6 body shut shop.*more on this another time...
Peter, please don't buy a Contax. Oh, wait...
 

robsteve

Subscriber
At the top most people's dollar is worth 50cents, at the bottom a dollar is worth $10. We are heading into a time that will reveal once in a lifetime investment opportunities -if you are disciplined enough to have a $1 left.
I have been saying a similar thing lately. If people had dipped into their savings last fall and bought a new camera, they were using dollar/dollars, not fifty cent dollars :) On the other side of the coin, I am reluctant to spend now, because that dollar I spend now, could be worth two or more in a few years time if left invested.

Robert
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
I am pretty sure we will continue seeing these heavy price drops over the next years in digital photography, especially in MF arena!

Usually the top models always stay at the same price level, this seems to be the only constant :cool:
 
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