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Hasselblad to be sold to Phase One...?

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f8orbust

Active member
So that would only leave Phase One and Leica? Oh goody, even less competition.

When Phase One got short of cash they opted to go down the route of inviting a private equity firm to invest - maybe Hasselblad should try the same thing. Hang on a second, they already did - with Ventizz - doh! - let's hope things work out better for P1 than they (apparently) have for HB.
 

stngoldberg

Well-known member
My two cents...the Sony chips have changed everything...while I love the experience of composing through the huge, bright Hasselblad viewfinder, I have difficulty seeing the difference between the images from my H5D50 and my Nikon D810 when viewed on my computer.....especially when those images are printed
My friends who are very qualified photgraphers and own the new Sony 7R11 and the lenses that are available for that camera are showing me images and that are absolutely first rate
It's hard to believe that any medium format product is worth many multiples of a Nikon or Sony with the current high megapixel Sony chips!
Stanley-a proud Hasselblad owner
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
My two cents...the Sony chips have changed everything...while I love the experience of composing through the huge, bright Hasselblad viewfinder, I have difficulty seeing the difference between the images from my H5D50 and my Nikon D810 when viewed on my computer.....especially when those images are printed
My friends who are very qualified photgraphers and own the new Sony 7R11 and the lenses that are available for that camera are showing me images and that are absolutely first rate
It's hard to believe that any medium format product is worth many multiples of a Nikon or Sony with the current high megapixel Sony chips!
Stanley-a proud Hasselblad owner
+1 to that. The D810, and particularly the image quality at ISO 64/32, removed all sensible arguments I've been able to dig up to buy a digital MF camera. I'd love to have a CFV 50c at the current discounted price for my GX680, but I keep coming back to the same questions: What photos would I take with it that I can't take with the Nikon? Would I see a gain in image quality?

For the discounted cost of the back, $10,000, I can buy any lens I would need, including T/S and exotic Zeiss glass. What remains is the giant viewfinder, but that works fine when I shoot film also :)
 

fotografz

Well-known member
" … and some information suggesting that it is unlikely Hasselblad will see 2016 as a stand-alone company because they are out of cash. They are desperately seeking for investors and one of the likely outcome is to be purchased by Phase One."

I wonder what "some information" means? Also, why would Phase One purchasing Hasselblad be a "likely outcome"? I guess you can speculate about anything you wish in the guise of a "rumor".

MFD verses high resolution 35mm arguments aside,:banghead: , I think Hasselblad squandered a few choice advantages and opportunities to capture more of the MFD market even if it was shrinking (marketing 101: when your market stops growing, then grow your share).

H had the body advantage for quite some time. They never capitalized on it.

They under marketed True Focus/Absolute Position Lock (APL) … True Focus is the technology that automatically micro-adjusts AF when stopping down to account for any focus shift for each HC/HCD lens, where TF/APL is the tech that allows off-center focus, repositioning.

Hasselblad never brought out a body with dual shutters (Like Leica S), which was a major missed opportunity IMO. The advantage H had was that ALL their lenses were already leaf shutter, and with a dual shutter body all of them then could have been used in FP shutter mode to 1/4000. A Hasselblad owner would not have needed to buy new lenses to use LS or FP mode. Had they introduced dual shutter in the H5, I probably never would have completely switched to the Leica S. No 35mm or even the S could compete with my H4D/60 in terms of IQ … on screen, or in print.

Hassey never really solved the digital back power issue to allow use of H backs on a tech camera … which is a key market for MFD. My H4D/60 back was supposed to take a battery, but that was so slow coming that I was out of the system before it was possible.

Instead, they poured cash into the Sony fiasco, and treated the customer base like rubes at a carnival … looking to bilk them of money with pretentious fluff that only Leica has proven capable of foisting off on the faithful (at least their's is eye candy applied to an already prestigious piece of gear rather than a Fiat with a Bentley grill.:)

- Marc
 

Swissblad

Well-known member
A big ditto to Stan and Jorgen...... as much as I would love a CFV-50c ..... just to have the thrill of using my old 503.... I just cannot justify 10K.

4-5K would be an entirely different matter.

Marc - I agree with your comments - I like the issue on market share.

Problem is that HB became very arrogant..... but as we know - pride comes before the fall!
 

richardman

Well-known member
Fortumers are hard crowd to please - the honeymoon of $10K CVF50C didn't even last more than 3 days :grin:
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Fortumers are hard crowd to please - the honeymoon of $10K CVF50C didn't even last more than 3 days :grin:
Ha ha... I was very close to posting enthusiastically on the discounted CVF-50c thread, but maths got the better of me. I checked How many Zeiss Milvus lenses I could buy for the price of that back. The answer is: All six of them.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
I do agree fully on the dual shutter story / dilemma of Hasselblad! Before I finally owned my H3D a few years ago, I was discussing multiple times with them why they should introduce a focal plane shutter and they were just so ignorant about that. Albeit they had FP shutter already decades ago in their 2000 film cameras.

Today the market for MFD is shrinking every year and a company needs to have a full modern and aggressive offering (like Phase) in order to survive, as cameras like the D810, A7rII and for sure also the upcoming D850/D900 are just so excellent with high res FF, plus they do offer the benefits of large lens systems and most of them for a much more attractive price than a MF lens.

I only do not get the point why Phase would want to buy Hasselblad, as at the current state of their product development I absolutely do not see any synergies through a Hasselblad acquisition.
 

CSP

New member
...interesting, did anybody else here the rumor that fuji will introduce a mf camera in the next 2 years ? a fuji takeover would make perfect sense. maybe i have to keep my hasselbland lenses for a mirrorless fuji mf camera :)
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
...interesting, did anybody else here the rumor that fuji will introduce a mf camera in the next 2 years ? a fuji takeover would make perfect sense. maybe i have to keep my hasselbland lenses for a mirrorless fuji mf camera :)
Fuji is the only potential buyer who could possibly make a profit acquiring Hasselblad. They already produce the lenses and they know the body inside out. It's difficult to see any other reason for Phase to buy it other than getting rid of a competitor.
 

tjv

Active member
Why wouldn't Leica buy them? They've already bought Sinar and I imagine would like to produce a body to fit Sinar backs on; have reverse engineered an H Lens adaptor that even manages to maintain autofocus with the HTS (which Hasselblad couldn't even manage themselves) and would most likely benifit from aquiring other technology, including the flextight scanner range. Besides, I'd imagine Leica are worth more than Phase on paper? At least Leica have a respect for the heritage of the respective brands.

Failing all that, I hope Hasselblad survive. Competition is good for us all, especially for price.
 

jlm

Workshop Member
maybe capture one will finally convert hasseblad raw files! there has been some sort of feud there...
 

MrSmith

Member
my 2p worth on this (based on no facts or real inside information whatsoever) is that a Phase purchase of HBlad would probably not be a be good thing for current users or the brand, i guess they would grab the tru-focus patent for their own use. Fuji on the other hand would be a better fit as a way back into MF and a compliment to their existing camera business. they obviously already have close links with HBlad.

most photographers i know would love an H5 with a fully integrated back that tethered to capture 1 without the phase pricing and mediocre body offerings. i doubt that would ever happen.
 

Stefan Steib

Active member
Ha ha... I was very close to posting enthusiastically on the discounted CVF-50c thread, but maths got the better of me. I checked How many Zeiss Milvus lenses I could buy for the price of that back. The answer is: All six of them.
That is exactly the point. Even if the CFV50 would sell for 5000$, the lenses and everything elese still costs multiple thousands.
People need to look at the overall system price and the net output and compare. There is still some advantage to 80 Mpix and maybe the BW Achromatic 60 Mpix, as well as 200bit Multishot systems for Repro purposes.

But the whole rest of the world can safely settle with the actual 5Dsr or an A7RII.
Used with the right glass, the results are stunning, not to say better than MF, if AF and stabilization is needed.

24x36 is the new Medium Format.

And I am not the only one who has this opinion

Zeiss Vicepresident: ” Full Frame is the future” and “Sony was surprised by E-mount success” | sonyalpharumors

Greetings from Germany
Stefan
 

miska

Member
I am not so sure FF is the new MF. I think (but I may be completely wrong) that Sony made their 50Mpix MF sensor to test the waters. I think the test was positive, and there will be more MF sensors coming from Sony.

I suspect (again, could be wrong) that sensor size may become a significant marketing argument to sell "serious" cameras. As camera-phone with small sensors become more and more popular (but can they be more popular than now) and FF cameras are getting "too cheap" to make good money out of them, selling an expensive camera with good margins becomes more and more difficult. And the only "easy" argument why camera A costing 5k Euros is better than camera B costing 1k Euros will be "because it has a bigger sensor".

But again, maybe MF is dying and FF will remain the only "reasonable" alternative.
 

synn

New member
Hi Stefan,

My 645 DF+, Credo 40 and a handful of old Mamiya lenses would cost about the same as a D810/ 5DSR and a handful of Otii. Cheaper if you go for used or refurb.

Files still blow everything from 135 away, at least for the things I shoot.

Sure, this pony only knows one trick, but it's a wonderful trick.

I wish the rest of the world all the best settling down with "The new medium format". I am quite happy with the old one.

Viele Grüße,
Sandeep
 

Stefan Steib

Active member
Sandeep

while that is true for used stuff, it doesn´t keep companies like Hasselblad alive.

I am talking about the new sales they need to generate their turnarounds and proceed with
R&D to stay competitive.

I know how you feel about the systems you use, but this is like all the older stuff, marked with a timestamp.
Sooner or later, you may drop something, a board in the backs may fail,one part of the chain breaks down.

And then ? Would you really invest another 50K $ to get into MF ? Or would you have a severe talk with your bank,
your customers and find 95% would work exactly the same as before for maybe 20% of the costs ?

@ miska
Sony is a consumer electronics company. They sell volume and they build stuff according to their mindset -
which I love as it changed photography right now - a lot of fresh air coming from the electronics market.

The Chip Fab of Sony is not "Sony". I believe they have barely gotten the costs for the devellopment of this 50 Mpix chip
(which is probably 15-20 Mil.$) divide that by roughly 25000 pieces until today (so maybe 12-15k chips made /year)
and you will see how tight the financial frame is.

Unless all other makers who have signed this contract Blad/Pentax and Phase/MamLeaf won´t
ALL order on another bigger CMOS it will not happen. I doubt if Phase can fullfill such a volume order to Sony alone.
If Hasselblad dies, Pentax is the biggest customer and they probably have not much interest in a 100 Mpix or more chip for their
next - let´s call it 645 Omega body. Maybe 60 Mpix but I really doubt it. Ricoh sells primarily to wedding and People photographers in Asia. That´s what this camera is made for. And it works very well - if these numbers are right with 17000 units sold last year since the new version came out.

And again: this is a niche market now, replacing the large format. If the former MF Makers can survive with these niche numbers ?
I wish them luck.
So I keep saying: 24x36 digital is the new "Medium Format" market segment.

Greetings from Germany
Stefan
 

synn

New member
Stefan,

I invested nothing close to 50k in MF. The same back I bought can be had for 4 digits NEW now and the low end of MF will continue to be offered around that price range (Or even lower, hopefully).

If I drop or break mine, I will first try to repair it (After calling my insurance woman, first ). At least for Phase/ Leaf, the timeframe between product discontinuation and service discontinuation is quite long, so I am not worried too much that it will not be repairable.

Failing that, either go to the used market or buy another low end MF back. However, most owners are lucky in that regard and I know people who still shoot with Lightphase or Volare backs in the studio, still going strong.

I can't speak for everyone here, but I shoot for personal pleasure, so providing work for customers at 20% of the cost etc. Is not a factor for me. Maximum smiles/hour while I create my art however is. :)

Sandeep
 
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algrove

Well-known member
So that would only leave Phase One and Leica? Oh goody, even less competition.

When Phase One got short of cash they opted to go down the route of inviting a private equity firm to invest - maybe Hasselblad should try the same thing. Hang on a second, they already did - with Ventizz - doh! - let's hope things work out better for P1 than they (apparently) have for HB.
You forgot Pentax too which also uses the Sony 51MP sensor.
 
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