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(New to MF) - Some very specific questions for the PROS

maxshafiq

Member
Dear members

I am a Canon DSLR non-professional (do not make my living from photography) type of person, looking to get my feet wet with Medium Format (MF). I am intrigued by all the Image Quality references I hear about everywhere and when I see images taken with MF cameras I am wowed...

Trying to decide which equipment to buy (used) and have been going back and forth between used and part new part used.

Also been reading various forum posts and watching promotional videos, and anything in between.

Bottom line is I am confused.

So basically there are 2 camps, the Hasselblad (H5D-40) and Phase One (645DF+ or XF) that I am considering. In either case I like the IQ140, I like the ability to use the LCD to check focus and I am told these are the best.

I have a several questions bugging me regarding the Medium Format cameras/systems for the style of shooting I do. Which is mainly Indoor portraiture and outdoor editorial/fashion style. With that in mind can you please help me with the following questions.

1. Is the Hasselblad H5D True Focus system truly revolutionary? How does it work compared to say the 645DF+ or XF? I had read somewhere the new Phase One XF even though has a new AF system, it still will run into the same issues as the 645DF+ when it comes to focus and recompose which is what I do alot. Maybe at F8 or F9 it does not matter, but definately at wide open.

2 Do most users of MF on fashion/Editorial shoots using tethered? Is the ability of the IQ2 series backs to Wifi replace the need to tether and if so do the professionals no longer tether? or are you guys soley relying on the LCD to check focus?

3. I am hearing on the Phase One forums that it is not uncommon for 645DF+ bodies malfunction or the lenses to lockup? I have not been able to find similar lockup issues for the Hasselblad's. Maybe I am not looking at the right place? or are they just more reliable?

4. How much of a big difference does 1/1600 as opposed to 1/800 really make in practice when shooting fashion/editorial outside? I mean those with Hasselblad's do you wish you could go to 1/1600? or does 1/800 work fine?

5. Does the newer CMOS sensors really make that much of a difference if all I want to do is shoot with strobe or in bright light? I honestly don't think I will be shooting high ISO's just to get a shot...or would this help if I was shooting natural light portraiture as I do with my 5D mk3 and Zeis Otus fully open at f/1.4? Can that be done with the CCD backs satisfactorily?

6. Is there a big difference between the IQ2 series digital backs when trying to check focus on the LCD? or is a IQ140 just as good? Where do CREDO backs fit in all this?

7. When comparing Hassie and Phase One, does the fact that the Hassie is being marked down considerably not mean it is a great deal? Somewhere I had read about Phase One units/digital backs loose close to 40% straight after purchase...so does that not put both in the same bucket?

8. Why would I not get the best of both worlds and get a Hasselblad H5X and IQ140, that way I get True Focus, better LCD and ability to use C1 for RAW conversion?

9. Are the schneider lenses and Hasselblad lenses equally as good? or is the quality of one blow the other out of the water? I am interested in 110-150mm focal length.

Your comments greatly appreciated.
 

epforever

Member
I'm happy to contribute my two cents, but bear in mind, the likely reason you love some of the MF images you see is because they were shot with a lot of care, planning, production value, lighting and retouching. A mediocre image shot on MF will still look mediocre. You might be surprised at how un-different images look, once you get a MF camera. That being said, my H5D-50 is practically the only camera I use (I'm a pro -- www.ethanpines.com), and there are a lot of reasons to love it. I'll try to answer your questions where I can.

1. I love True Focus, and it works great. I'm amazed no one thought of it or implemented it before Hasselblad did. You lock in focus with the True Focus button, release it, recompose, and at the instant of capture the camera adjusts for how you moved the camera when recomposing. I suppose it is a bit revolutionary (though that word might be dramatic). I don't worry about my shots being in focus. I no longer worry about focusing and recomposing. I've done tests, and it makes a real difference. I've never shot with the XF or DF+, so I can't compare.

2. I tether whenever I can. And it's not really for checking focus (though that's a reason too). It's to see the shots large, which helps immensely in evaluating content, composition, lighting, styling, etc. And of course it lets the client see the images. It's easy to check the focus on the H5D cameras (one button zooms in to where you focused). But every commercial shooter I know, myself included, shoots tethered when possible. Fashion? Not sure, but I imagine so. Editorial? I do, when there's the budget and resources. (My laptop is too slow.) So we hire a digi tech. Even without a digi tech, I tether while setting up, for evaluating the shot.

3. Don't know.

4. I'm happy with 1/800, haven't wished for more. It's pretty easy to overpower ambient light at 1/800. In bright sunlight at ISO 100, standard exposure at 1/125 is f/16. So at 1/500 you're at f/8. At 1/800 you're at f/5.6.3. And that's pretty limited DOF on MF, and it's pretty easy to reach f/5.6.3 with strobes. I've also read somewhere that shots synced at 1/1600 can come out a bit flat, not sure why, unless you have all the exact right gear (certain strobes, certain transmitters and receivers, etc.). And of course your flash duration has to be faster than 1/1600.

5. "Does the newer CMOS sensors really make that much of a difference if all I want to do is shoot with strobe or in bright light?"
> Not in terms of image quality -- the CCD sensors are gorgeous at base ISO or one stop over. I don't own a new CMOS back, but I think they do have more ability for highlight and shadow recovery. That being said, the CCD sensors have a lot of those abilities already. They have long been known for that.
"...would this help if I was shooting natural light portraiture as I do with my 5D mk3 and Zeis Otus fully open at f/1.4? Can that be done with the CCD backs satisfactorily?"
> It all depends on what ISO you're using on your Canon. Above 400 ISO, yes, CMOS would help in that case. The fastest lens you'll get in MF is f/2.2 (Hasselblad HC 100mm), f/2.0 in certain cases (say, the Contax 80mm f/2). With the H5D-40 (which you mentioned), you can have great quality up to ISO 400, and quite good up to 800. At 1600 you'll probably be disappointed. With a CMOS sensor, I think you'll get very nice quality up to 3200, and usable even at 6400. I haven't used one, but think of it as a larger version of your Canon sensor. At high ISOs, the Canon gives cleaner files than the MF CCD sensors.

6. Not sure, but I've played with an IQ140, and it's easy to check focus.

7. I think Hassy is a very good system. An XF body with a newer Phase back is probably more desirable and worth more, and you can use Capture One. But outside of the XF, I think the Hassy bodies are much better, they have a great viewfinder, the lenses are excellent, they work well, they have True Focus. All digital backs lose a lot of value once used, since they are often overpriced new, and technology changes so quickly that people no longer want to pay as much for the prior model, even though at the time it might have been one of the top cameras in the world.

8. Probably a good idea, and that's what a lot of pros do. Drawback of the IQ140 is the smaller sensor (33 x 44). I'm sure quality is great, but you can't shoot as wide.

9. Both are very good. I don't think one blows the other out of the water, but I've never used the Schneiders. They're pricey; Hassy lenses are more widely available on the used market. My guess is, at some focal lengths the Hassy is the standout, and at some the Schneider is. In my mind, the standout Hassy lenses are the 35-90, the 50mm II, the 28mm, the 80mm (overlooked because it's the kit lens, but it's amazingly sharp when stopped down), 100mm, 120mm. And I'm sure the 150 and 210 and 300 are great too; haven't used them.

Hope that helps.

ethan
 

Ken_R

New member
Dear members

I am a Canon DSLR non-professional (do not make my living from photography) type of person, looking to get my feet wet with Medium Format (MF). I am intrigued by all the Image Quality references I hear about everywhere and when I see images taken with MF cameras I am wowed...

Trying to decide which equipment to buy (used) and have been going back and forth between used and part new part used.

Also been reading various forum posts and watching promotional videos, and anything in between.

Bottom line is I am confused.

So basically there are 2 camps, the Hasselblad (H5D-40) and Phase One (645DF+ or XF) that I am considering. In either case I like the IQ140, I like the ability to use the LCD to check focus and I am told these are the best.

I own a IQ160 in Hasselblad H Mount and use it with basic H1. Works great even wide open with the 80mm lens.

I have a several questions bugging me regarding the Medium Format cameras/systems for the style of shooting I do. Which is mainly Indoor portraiture and outdoor editorial/fashion style. With that in mind can you please help me with the following questions.

1. Is the Hasselblad H5D True Focus system truly revolutionary? How does it work compared to say the 645DF+ or XF? I had read somewhere the new Phase One XF even though has a new AF system, it still will run into the same issues as the 645DF+ when it comes to focus and recompose which is what I do alot. Maybe at F8 or F9 it does not matter, but definately at wide open.

No issues with the 80mm f2.8 lens wide open on my H1.

2 Do most users of MF on fashion/Editorial shoots using tethered? Is the ability of the IQ2 series backs to Wifi replace the need to tether and if so do the professionals no longer tether? or are you guys soley relying on the LCD to check focus?

I use the IQ160 / H1 tethered in the studio some times but most times I use it untethered just like any DSLR even on location outdoors. Th LCD is VERY good and the 100% zoom fast and really good for checking focus on shot images.

3. I am hearing on the Phase One forums that it is not uncommon for 645DF+ bodies malfunction or the lenses to lockup? I have not been able to find similar lockup issues for the Hasselblad's. Maybe I am not looking at the right place? or are they just more reliable?

Again, I have had no Issues with my IQ160 and H1 combo.

4. How much of a big difference does 1/1600 as opposed to 1/800 really make in practice when shooting fashion/editorial outside? I mean those with Hasselblad's do you wish you could go to 1/1600? or does 1/800 work fine?

Since base iso is 50~100 on my IQ160 I have found 1/800 enough for shooting even at f 2.8 in sunlight. I am sure 1/1600 is helpful to have in some situations but generally I have not found the lack of it a limitation for me

5. Does the newer CMOS sensors really make that much of a difference if all I want to do is shoot with strobe or in bright light? I honestly don't think I will be shooting high ISO's just to get a shot...or would this help if I was shooting natural light portraiture as I do with my 5D mk3 and Zeis Otus fully open at f/1.4? Can that be done with the CCD backs satisfactorily?

The CMOS backs will allow you to use the full range of ISO while retaining awesome image quality. Generally my IQ160 is limited to iso 50-400 (in 60MP mode) but with the sensor + on, the 15mp files are stunning up to iso 1600 easy.

6. Is there a big difference between the IQ2 series digital backs when trying to check focus on the LCD? or is a IQ140 just as good? Where do CREDO backs fit in all this?

Same lcd on all IQ backs AFAIK

7. When comparing Hassie and Phase One, does the fact that the Hassie is being marked down considerably not mean it is a great deal? Somewhere I had read about Phase One units/digital backs loose close to 40% straight after purchase...so does that not put both in the same bucket?

8. Why would I not get the best of both worlds and get a Hasselblad H5X and IQ140, that way I get True Focus, better LCD and ability to use C1 for RAW conversion?

Again, I find the Hasselblad H and IQ combination awesome but the new Phase XF is stunning I would at least check it out

9. Are the schneider lenses and Hasselblad lenses equally as good? or is the quality of one blow the other out of the water? I am interested in 110-150mm focal length.

From what I have seen there is not much difference

Your comments greatly appreciated.
Please see my response to each question above.
 

DougDolde

Well-known member
I am not going to answer all your questions, but do have one piece of advice:

Buy an 80 megapixel back from the get-go and be amazed at the files. I had the IQ140 and though it was good the IQ180 I traded up to has massively more robust files. The detail is mind blowing.

The system, to me is secondary. Even an Aptus 12 on a Contax 645 would amaze and could be an economical way to get in big. You still have the benefit of Zeiss lenses and you can process your files with Capture One.
 

Jeffrey

Active member
Why not rent both cameras that you mention, use them in your typical shooting situation, and then determine what is best for you? What works for each of us might or might not be what you are looking for.

If you prefer to not rent, there probably are some dealers who will work with you in helping you to find the best solution.
 

jerome_m

Member
1. Is the Hasselblad H5D True Focus system truly revolutionary?
True focus works very well. It is already available on the H4D series, BTW. I have no idea how it compares to the XF camera.

2 Do most users of MF on fashion/Editorial shoots using tethered? Is the ability of the IQ2 series backs to Wifi replace the need to tether and if so do the professionals no longer tether? or are you guys soley relying on the LCD to check focus?
It seems that part of the attraction for wifi is that you can send the image to an iPad that the customers have in their hands.

3. I am hearing on the Phase One forums that it is not uncommon for 645DF+ bodies malfunction or the lenses to lockup? I have not been able to find similar lockup issues for the Hasselblad's.
They do lock up from time to time.

4. How much of a big difference does 1/1600 as opposed to 1/800 really make in practice when shooting fashion/editorial outside? I mean those with Hasselblad's do you wish you could go to 1/1600? or does 1/800 work fine?
1/800 is fine.

5. Does the newer CMOS sensors really make that much of a difference if all I want to do is shoot with strobe or in bright light?
Not on the images. However, you have live view on the cmos sensors and you seem to want that.

9. Are the schneider lenses and Hasselblad lenses equally as good? or is the quality of one blow the other out of the water? I am interested in 110-150mm focal length.
All 110-150mm MF lenses are stellar.

And then a question from my side: what about getting a used MF camera to see whether you like this kind of camera? If you don't like it, you can always sell it back without losing too much money.
 

JeRuFo

Active member
I guess you want to build a system and maybe upgrade the back in the future?
In that case I would also take into consideration what you can expect from the companies in the future. Although there are still plenty of upgrades within the Hassy system from where you are planning to step in, the future of Phase one seems brighter which might create more options for you when the time comes to upgrade.

Since the modular system seems to worry you a bit and you find focussing very important, why not give the Pentax 645Z some consideration? It focusses better than either, has the newer sensor and live view. Since there now is a work around for the slow flash sync speed, that shouldn't give much trouble either.
New glass is coming out fast with already plenty of options. It is less prestigious, but probably more comfortable and faster to work with coming from a DSLR.
 

kdphotography

Well-known member
Unless you are intimately familiar with a particular platform, it is best to "try before you buy" or use on a critical photography job. Much of what you may see on the forums may not necessarily apply to your own situation or uses, or be entirely accurate. With that in mind, nothing beats being able to sit down and chat with others, actual users that have medium format systems in their hands, as opposed to a few that like to wax poetic on the forums on the what ifs and what might be...

Working with a dealer helps. Finding a workshop or individual medium format photographers that you can meet in person helps. Capture Integration in Carmel will be held in February 2016, which is a great opportunity to try new equipment and meet other like-minded photographers. This is the seventh annual CI - Pigs in a Blanket event---wow time flies! You have a lot of great, well-reasoned questions, and good replies as well---but nothing beats the camera in hand.

ken
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
So basically there are 2 camps, the Hasselblad (H5D-40) and Phase One (645DF+ or XF) that I am considering. In either case I like the IQ140, I like the ability to use the LCD to check focus and I am told these are the best.
The review interface of the IQ/Credo series is very good. Modern, bright, high-res, retina-grade, touch LCD with tap-to-check-focus anywhere in the frame, customizable exposure warning, customizable grids and guides, and a simple touch-driven star rating system which translates into Capture One when you download the card. In addition the IQ's have a focus mask system which provides excellent at-a-glance evaluation of focus throughout the frame, and a clipping warning (different and more useful than the ordinary exposure warning) and an exposure heat map (excellent for judging exposure of skin or other known-subjects in a high-key or low-key or backlit situation).

1. Is the Hasselblad H5D True Focus system truly revolutionary? How does it work compared to say the 645DF+ or XF? I had read somewhere the new Phase One XF even though has a new AF system, it still will run into the same issues as the 645DF+ when it comes to focus and recompose which is what I do alot. Maybe at F8 or F9 it does not matter, but definately at wide open.
When focus and recomposing there is a slight difference between focus point and subject. This is more pronounced when shooting wide-angle lenses (since the angle change will be greater) and when shooting wide open with very fast lenses. It is less problematic with longer lenses and moderate focus+recompose or at any aperture that isn't wide open. Many of our customers using an XF or DF+ will simply make a slight lean after focusing knowing that the focus offset is pretty consistent for any given style of shooting; a low-tech but effective solution. I use a 130mm f/2 lens and have no problem with nailing focus most of the time (at 130/2 on full-frame you will NEVER get 100% of frames in perfect focus) using this method. You can also manually focus (the focus screen and viewfinder of the XF is brighter and larger than any other I've used) or focus and capture from live view (on the 50mp IQ backs).

The True Focus system is a novel approach to this problem and can be helpful provided:
- the subject does not move
- you don't move
- you don't allow forward-backward movement of the camera after focusing (it only adapts for angle change, not the location of the camera)

The best option here would be to shoot with an XF and an H5X and ramp through enough shooting scenarios to see what your real-world results are like with each.


2 Do most users of MF on fashion/Editorial shoots using tethered? Is the ability of the IQ2 series backs to Wifi replace the need to tether and if so do the professionals no longer tether? or are you guys soley relying on the LCD to check focus?
Nearly 100% of our fashion/editorial shooters tether at least some of the time. Most do not tether 100% of the time. Ideally you want a back that can work very well in both cases.

Note that with an IQ or Credo you can shoot tethered, and you'll still see the most recent images on the LCD including the ability to check focus, use focus mask or exposure/clipping warning. This is useful for a quick glance at the images without breaking rapport with the model.

With IQ/Credo backs, Capture One v8, and USB3 the speed is such that you can see the most recent image on the screen 2-3 seconds after capture, even when shooting a long continuos burst. C1 is used on the majority of pro tethering sets in major markets and it's speed and flexibility when tethering is a big part of that.

3. I am hearing on the Phase One forums that it is not uncommon for 645DF+ bodies malfunction or the lenses to lockup? I have not been able to find similar lockup issues for the Hasselblad's. Maybe I am not looking at the right place? or are they just more reliable?
When the DF launched it had many bugs, including several that were power related. If you combined an early-firmware DF with a mediocre power supply (e.g. generic AA batteries) the results were surprisingly poor.

With firmware updates over the years, and the introduction and standardization on the LiOn battery, stability was greatly improved. So the current situation there is very very different than it was initially, or even (regrettably) for a year or two after launch.

The DF/DF+ were based off the firmware/communication/protocols of the AFD1 developed many years ago. It was not a modern camera and so building modern features into the firmware was both time consuming and problematic. The XF was developed specifically to address this issue, and is a fully modern digital-born platform.

4. How much of a big difference does 1/1600 as opposed to 1/800 really make in practice when shooting fashion/editorial outside? I mean those with Hasselblad's do you wish you could go to 1/1600? or does 1/800 work fine?
This depends 100% on your shooting style. I often use 1/1600th at a wedding to stay at f/2.8 and up the ISO a stop or two in order to add fill-flash on a back lit portrait or backlit scene (e.g. if it is an outdoor ceremony and the bride/groom have the sun behind them) so that I can fill flash with very little power. It's also useful if you want to shoot day-as-night and bring the sky down to a darker blue – overpower, rather than just match, the sun.

Notably the DF+/XF also allow 1/4000th of a second using the focal plane shutter so if you're using continuous light (e.g. bounce or tungsten) then you can shoot even faster. The focal plane shutter also allows you to use any lens that will mount and focus, rather than be limited to the lenses designed for the system. For instance:

This was shot with a Contax 80/2 that I had converted (and am now selling to finance an engagement ring).

5. Does the newer CMOS sensors really make that much of a difference if all I want to do is shoot with strobe or in bright light? I honestly don't think I will be shooting high ISO's just to get a shot...or would this help if I was shooting natural light portraiture as I do with my 5D mk3 and Zeis Otus fully open at f/1.4? Can that be done with the CCD backs satisfactorily?
CMOS provides higher ISO, faster shooting speeds, and better live view. If you NEED those then you want CMOS. If you don't then any of the backs will work just as well.

Here's an article I wrote on the path to profiling the IQ250, something Phase One was uniquely situated to do as the provider of raw software and highly-regarded profiles for CMOS cameras (Canon/Nikon) for over a decade.
https://luminous-landscape.com/the-phase-one-iq250-cmos-fully-realized/


6. Is there a big difference between the IQ2 series digital backs when trying to check focus on the LCD? or is a IQ140 just as good? Where do CREDO backs fit in all this?
Credo = IQ minus some features

Generally speaking, between refurbished options, trade-ins, and promotions we can usually offer an IQ very close to the price of a Credo. So the price difference is not as big a factor as it once was.


8. Why would I not get the best of both worlds and get a Hasselblad H5X and IQ140, that way I get True Focus, better LCD and ability to use C1 for RAW conversion?
Maybe 20% of our new customers do just that. 80% choose the XF.

You really just need to try both and see what you like and what you don't. Nobody can tell you how well a camera will fit your hand or how well an interface will match your mind.

9. Are the schneider lenses and Hasselblad lenses equally as good? or is the quality of one blow the other out of the water? I am interested in 110-150mm focal length.
You'll find both have excellent lenses. The new Schneider Blue Ring lenses have a build quality that is a bit above anything previously offered on either platform. Optically they both have some amazing lenses and some pretty good lenses. Very few dogs in medium format world.
 

epforever

Member
I'm happy to contribute my two cents, but bear in mind, the likely reason you love some of the MF images you see is because they were shot with a lot of care, planning, production value, lighting and retouching. A mediocre image shot on MF will still look mediocre. You might be surprised at how un-different images look, once you get a MF camera. That being said, my H5D-50 is practically the only camera I use \
Regarding my statement above, I wanted to clarify. When I said that MF images won't look that different to you, it's because the cameras aren't a magic bullet. Your images won't suddenly have that glow and polish that you often see in MF, but I think you probably know that. With that in mind, MF images are fantastic in the digital realm, miles beyond what the Canon produces. The MF files are deep, rich, robust, can be pushed around a lot in post, can be up-rezzed beautifully without breaking apart. High flash-sync speeds mean less strobe output required, faster flash recycling and faster flash durations. The systems have nice big viewfinders and better lenses. And I think the limitations and the file quality of the systems lead you to work more thoroughly and deliberately on your shots.
 

maxshafiq

Member
Ethan

Sorry for the delayed response...just was not in a place where I could connect to the internet :-(

I enjoyed reading your comments and they all make sense. This is exactly the type of feedback I was hoping for. Just your point of view minus any hearsay :)

I agree 100% that a mediocre image taken with a MF will still look mediocre. and that planning is the key to a great image.

Thanks
 

maxshafiq

Member
Ken

Thanks for your comments, I was hoping to come across a real Hassie/P1 combo user.

Good to hear that you are liking the setup with best of both worlds :)
 

maxshafiq

Member
I am not going to answer all your questions, but do have one piece of advice:

Buy an 80 megapixel back from the get-go and be amazed at the files. I had the IQ140 and though it was good the IQ180 I traded up to has massively more robust files. The detail is mind blowing.

The system, to me is secondary. Even an Aptus 12 on a Contax 645 would amaze and could be an economical way to get in big. You still have the benefit of Zeiss lenses and you can process your files with Capture One.
Doug,

That is an interesting perspective to get the highest pixel count one can...never thought of it that way.

I will look at the Contax 645 too but isn't it built on the same body as Mamiya/P1 645? My ignorance without doing ay research :-(

- - - Updated - - -

Why not rent both cameras that you mention, use them in your typical shooting situation, and then determine what is best for you? What works for each of us might or might not be what you are looking for.

If you prefer to not rent, there probably are some dealers who will work with you in helping you to find the best solution.
I did originally think of renting but for a non professional photographer, it is expensive, at least that is they way I see it. I think we are talking what close to $1000+ for trying out 2 bodies maybe more!
 

maxshafiq

Member
Jerome

Thanks for your comments.

Wifi is an attraction but can I live without it? most likely


As for getting a used, well that is the route I was taking and it seems we are still looking at close to $9-$14 depending on where I buy from etc...on the other hand a new Hasselblad is closer to $10-$11K.

Then the question of resale. I am, seeing that people who already own the Phase backs and body's are having a pig of a time trying to sell at the price they want. I am seeing many ads for 645DF+ bodies selling in the $2000-$3500 range, and I know if I was to reverse and call a dealer up and say hay I am selling I will not get anything more than $900-$1200. So I am learning the resale market on these kits is terrible compared to DSLR camera's. Even those trying to sell lenses are having a tuff time.

If I buy I want to use and be happy first time around but that might be wishful thinking :)

Makes sense what I am saying?
 

maxshafiq

Member
I guess you want to build a system and maybe upgrade the back in the future?
In that case I would also take into consideration what you can expect from the companies in the future. Although there are still plenty of upgrades within the Hassy system from where you are planning to step in, the future of Phase one seems brighter which might create more options for you when the time comes to upgrade.

Since the modular system seems to worry you a bit and you find focussing very important, why not give the Pentax 645Z some consideration? It focusses better than either, has the newer sensor and live view. Since there now is a work around for the slow flash sync speed, that shouldn't give much trouble either.
New glass is coming out fast with already plenty of options. It is less prestigious, but probably more comfortable and faster to work with coming from a DSLR.
Upgrade back in the future - quite possibly but at the prices these backs are coming off the assembly line no. Another used one down the road? maybe.

I am taking into consideration future products etc...The obvious elephant in the room seems to be Hasselblad and the rumours around it going belly up, or some other fate worse than death...not that I have made a decision but what if? it goes belly up. Ok so I got some equipment that I will be able to use for 2-4 years. Then at that time I'll just reinvest in new equipment or whatever else is in fashion at that time...

I am not disagreeing, just avoiding unwarranted sliding towards one side of the house because some event might happen in the future.

Not worried about modular at all, but will look into the 645Z too.

Thanks for your input.
 

maxshafiq

Member
Unless you are intimately familiar with a particular platform, it is best to "try before you buy" or use on a critical photography job. Much of what you may see on the forums may not necessarily apply to your own situation or uses, or be entirely accurate. With that in mind, nothing beats being able to sit down and chat with others, actual users that have medium format systems in their hands, as opposed to a few that like to wax poetic on the forums on the what ifs and what might be...

Working with a dealer helps. Finding a workshop or individual medium format photographers that you can meet in person helps. Capture Integration in Carmel will be held in February 2016, which is a great opportunity to try new equipment and meet other like-minded photographers. This is the seventh annual CI - Pigs in a Blanket event---wow time flies! You have a lot of great, well-reasoned questions, and good replies as well---but nothing beats the camera in hand.

ken
I am working with a couple of dealers. They are helpful. The suggestion re workshop is a good one. I will look into it. I will also try and find out who locally uses a medium format and see if they can let me shoot a few frames to get some perspective.

Thanks for your advice. Always good to hear from people in the know :)
 

maxshafiq

Member
Doug,

Wow very informative and Thank You for your input from a dealer perspective. I am still chewing over what you have said :)

Good luck with funding that engagement ring, those rocks can start climbing in price when you start hitting places like Tiffany's :thumbup:

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Regarding my statement above, I wanted to clarify. When I said that MF images won't look that different to you, it's because the cameras aren't a magic bullet. Your images won't suddenly have that glow and polish that you often see in MF, but I think you probably know that. With that in mind, MF images are fantastic in the digital realm, miles beyond what the Canon produces. The MF files are deep, rich, robust, can be pushed around a lot in post, can be up-rezzed beautifully without breaking apart. High flash-sync speeds mean less strobe output required, faster flash recycling and faster flash durations. The systems have nice big viewfinders and better lenses. And I think the limitations and the file quality of the systems lead you to work more thoroughly and deliberately on your shots.
No I was not planning on jumping off the cliff after reading your original post...lol

Thanks for clarifying.
 

Pradeep

Member
Hi Shafiq (I hope I am not making the wrong assumption about your name, if so, my apologies).

I think the best advice I can give you, having 'been there and done that' is to try before you buy.

I know it costs money to rent/try, but believe me it will cost a lot more if you buy and then don't like it.

The Phase One dealers are exceptionally good at their job and will be the best source of information and guidance. Get to visit one of them in your area, check out what's available and see if you can work out a deal. From what I see of your needs, it will probably be the best system for you though it is quite expensive. There are other alternatives as mentioned here and some are certainly worth considering. However, none of the systems are as cheap as Canon and making a mistake may prove to be quite costly in the end.

A workshop is a good idea and may also get you a discount, plus you get to try the stuff for free (well, almost).

Medium Format is great to lust for but it truly is Dante's Inferno :)

Disclaimer - I am not a Pro but then as I see it, neither are you so our perspectives may be similar. Finally, I have been a Canon shooter for a long time.
 

maxshafiq

Member
Hi Shafiq (I hope I am not making the wrong assumption about your name, if so, my apologies).

I think the best advice I can give you, having 'been there and done that' is to try before you buy.

I know it costs money to rent/try, but believe me it will cost a lot more if you buy and then don't like it.

The Phase One dealers are exceptionally good at their job and will be the best source of information and guidance. Get to visit one of them in your area, check out what's available and see if you can work out a deal. From what I see of your needs, it will probably be the best system for you though it is quite expensive. There are other alternatives as mentioned here and some are certainly worth considering. However, none of the systems are as cheap as Canon and making a mistake may prove to be quite costly in the end.

A workshop is a good idea and may also get you a discount, plus you get to try the stuff for free (well, almost).

Medium Format is great to lust for but it truly is Dante's Inferno :)

Disclaimer - I am not a Pro but then as I see it, neither are you so our perspectives may be similar. Finally, I have been a Canon shooter for a long time.
Pradeep

No wrong assumptions :)

I am being offered a descent deal to rent by one of the dealers here in the US. I could be persuaded to go this route as you are the 2nd person to advise this option.

After having held the XF for about 5 minutes last week my Canon feels like a toy camera...Anyone interested in a brand new Zeis Otus 85 and a 200mm Canon L 2.0?

Thanks for your advise.
 

jerome_m

Member
Jerome

Thanks for your comments.

Wifi is an attraction but can I live without it? most likely


As for getting a used, well that is the route I was taking and it seems we are still looking at close to $9-$14 depending on where I buy from etc...on the other hand a new Hasselblad is closer to $10-$11K.

Then the question of resale. I am, seeing that people who already own the Phase backs and body's are having a pig of a time trying to sell at the price they want. I am seeing many ads for 645DF+ bodies selling in the $2000-$3500 range, and I know if I was to reverse and call a dealer up and say hay I am selling I will not get anything more than $900-$1200. So I am learning the resale market on these kits is terrible compared to DSLR camera's. Even those trying to sell lenses are having a tuff time.

If I buy I want to use and be happy first time around but that might be wishful thinking :)

Makes sense what I am saying?
Not really, no.

Sorry to be blunt, but you cannot say at the same time that buying at decent price is so difficult and that all sellers find it so difficult to get the price they want. This simply does not add up. Market, law of supply and demand, etc...

I don't know where you live. I live in Germany. If I want a second hand MF, I can get a second hand 50 mpix CCD for 7000€ and a second hand 39 mpix CCD for 3500€. That is the market, and the 39 mpix would be a perfect choice for someone wanting to try MF but not so sure about it.
 
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