(New to MF) - Some very specific questions for the PROS

[dougpeterson]

Good luck with funding that engagement ring, those rocks can start climbing in price when you start hitting places like Tiffany's

Thanks!

Aforementioned lenses are now listed for sale:
http://www.getdpi.com/forum/gear-fs-or-wtb/56845-classic-hassy-110-2-a.html
http://www.getdpi.com/forum/gear-fs-or-wtb/56844-contax-80mm-remounted-mamiya-phase.html

 

[michaelclark]

Dang, some great honesty and stellar advice in this post! Thanks Fotografz.

You really didn't talk about what and how you shoot in detail, but I think some of that can be inferred by the questions you asked. However, it really does depend on specific factors like what sort of studio environment you have access to (including strobe equipment and modifiers); what sort of subjects you love to photograph; whether you live in an outdoor area where the sun is frequently a larger factor than other places may exhibit; etc., etc.

MF Background: It's been a Saga, so skip if you wish

My MF experience has been pretty long ... starting with the classic V camera using an Imacon back, then a CFV back, a full Contax 645 system with a Kodak 645C digital back, RZ Pro-II and Mamiya 645 with a 33 meg Leaf Aptus 7s digital back ... then migrated to the H Digital through the H4D/40 and 60, and used a Rollie 6X9 studio camera with full movements and a Hasselblad 39 meg MultiShot back. These were all used for both professional and personal applications: (industrial, corporate, advertising lifestyle and product, travel, portrait ... (even weddings and events because I already had the MF gear so why not use it?).

All the above is now gone. My choice of MF kit is now the Leica S system.

In tandem with these MF solutions, I kept pace with 35mm systems: Canon Pro cameras and 5 series cameras, Nikon Pro series camera up to 24 meg FF, then Sony from the FF 24 meg A900 to the 36 meg FF A7R, and I just did a test shoot with the FF 43 meg Sony A7R-II.

Experiential Conclusion: In the eye of this beholder when the meg count was the same or similar between MF and 35mm, MF always won. Always. This doesn't factor in high ISO, but I personally believe high ISO is some sort of a compromise in IQ regardless of camera used. Speed of operation and higher ISO available light work is the only reason I had a 35mm kit ... mostly for weddings. All I know is that in most cases (not all), higher ISOs usually means bad light, and being able to shoot in it doesn't alter that it is still bad light. So, I try to time shoots in better light, or I use lighting.

Answers/Opinions:

True Focus: yes, dramatic as it may seem it was/is revolutionary for MF. In theory the subject nor you can move, in practice using the rear TF focus thumb button and proper technique it is so fast to do that it rarely misses unless you have vertigo or the subject is an on-coming race car Composition is the big winner with TF ... it promotes exploration of dramatic compositions ... you can TF and then instantly place a focal point anywhere in the viewfinder, even at the very edge of the frame, and it's bang on. Love it a lot, and sorely miss it with my current kit.

Tethered: MF or 35mm, absolutely Fabulous way to work ... I shoot to a 27" 5K Retnia screen in studio. Prop-masters, stylists, and make-up artists can see exactly what is happening on set, I can check composition, critical focus, and relative DOF at a glance; art directors, corporate brand managers keep informed and provide feed-back, or regular portrait clients can see results instantly ... 27" or 30" screen trumps 3" every time. Heck even a 15" laptop wins. Also, during breaks, you can instantly tweak a select shot in the software, or double check that you have enough background for the layout or print size, etc.

Tethered is the best Teaching/Learning tool ever IMO. All the subtile lighting nuances are there to see, so refining the shot or your technique is a no-brainer.

Sync Speed: high sync speed without the loss of lighting power that the typical pulsed HSS sacrifices is essential to me. Never had much of an issue with 1/800th sync (or my current 1/1000 with the S system and CS lenses). Not sure how Phase One accomplishes 1/1600 but I believe that you needed the grip with the Profoto module (maybe the new P1 camera has it in the body now) ... BUT is is a Profoto module as far as I know ... so, do you have Profoto lighting? Most strobe systems top out at 1/500 sync ... to breach 1/500 you have to set the standard Profoto AIR transceiver to the "speed setting" for up to 1/1000 sync. Maybe Doug can comment on how P1 accomplishes the proprietary 1/1600 sync without some vignetting effect from the circular leaf-shutter?

The Contax camera was wonderful in its' day, and the current Pentax digital camera is a sweet deal, but would never work for me because I want ALL of my lenses to be leaf-shutter. The advantage of the later P1 Kits and the Leica S system is that, with the right lenses, they can be used with leaf shutter for high sync speed, or as a focal plane shutter camera to 1/4000 in brighter available light with open apertures.

In either case, for this advantage you will pay through the nose ... including harvesting all of your organs, and sacrificing your first born. If you buy new, you better have large nostrils to pay through. Do not expect to get any of those harvested organs back later either. Resale is dismal, so the real value of MF is strictly in the using ... and frequently using ... preferably with a pay check, tax write offs, commercial usage fees at the end.

Meg count: depends on your end game. The Hasselblad CCD 40 meg camera is fine to ISO 800 and with exposure care to 1600. Modern software is much better than old when it comes to noise control. The Hasselblad CCD noise is more pleasant like in character than noise from the 35mm cameras I've used. 60 meg was great, and I think is decent compromise between usability and improved IQ ... plus it is a larger chunk of real-estate compared to the 40 or the newer 50 CMOS sensors. I never used a 80 meg, so cannot comment.

I still like CCD sensors over CMOS ... and nothing has come along that has changed my take on the subject. Luddite. Neanderthal. Whatever. My work, my call.

Reco:

Run. Hide. Lay down until the urge passes. Once you enter the Inferno ... "Abandon hope all ye who enter here". MF is a financial sink hole, a money pit the size of the Grand Canyon. The term "restraint" is a concept that flies out the window (along with your money).

My observation is there are two basic groups of MF buyers:

One that dreams of all the wonderful stuff MF can deliver, but lacks the will/time/discipline/patience to actually realize it ... so the stuff gathers dust, they complain about crappy residual value, and they get out sooner than later, buy a higher meg 35mm FF for a LOT less money and spend a lot of time and words trying to evangelize that it is as good as MFD:thumbdown:

The other realizes all those wonders, see the differences others can't, revels in using such gear, loves all the rewards from their steadfast learning the techniques, and adores the end results of their patience and self-control ... but often find themselves at the bottom of the financial sink hole:facesmack:

- Marc

 

[med]

...
Sync Speed: high sync speed without the loss of lighting power that the typical pulsed HSS sacrifices is essential to me. Never had much of an issue with 1/800th sync (or my current 1/1000 with the S system and CS lenses). Not sure how Phase One accomplishes 1/1600 but I believe that you needed the grip with the Profoto module (maybe the new P1 camera has it in the body now) ... BUT is is a Profoto module as far as I know ... so, do you have Profoto lighting? Most strobe systems top out at 1/500 sync ... to breach 1/500 you have to set the standard Profoto AIR transceiver to the "speed setting" for up to 1/1000 sync. Maybe Doug can comment on how P1 accomplishes the proprietary 1/1600 sync without some vignetting effect from the circular leaf-shutter?
...
- Marc

Great post, Marc! Sorry to dredge up an old thread.... I just wanted to point out for anyone who stumbles across this and is curious about the vignetting question. From what I understand about leaf shutters is that since from the moment the shutter opens until it closes, the entire frame is being exposed equally (just not at full intensity; that only happens while the shutter is fully open), you won't get any vignetting from the shutter if the flash fires early or late; it will reduce the incoming light similarly to closing the aperture down.

As Doug mentions the trick is having a flash with a short enough duration. Ideally the flash output would peak at precisely the same moment that the shutter is fully open.