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Preferred method of 'seeing' with tech cams

Before my WRS 1200/Rod. 40TS arrives (I've got a 380 back) I'm just trying to get all my ducks in a row so I can hit the ground running. For ~$1000 I can pick up a viewfinder, mask and Leica D2 and take my iPad along for the ride. For possibly the same amount (give or take) I can pick up a Surface Pro.. which is what I think a lot of people have been gravitating towards lately.

What is everyone's 'preferred' method? If I never plan on shooting handheld, is anything lost from not having the viewfinder? Is it worth getting both?

..Does anyone shoot without either?

Input greatly appreciated.
 

torger

Active member
I'm still old-school, using sliding back and ground glass, with a 20x jewelry loupe for focusing. It works fine for me, but it does put some requirements on eye sight, and wide angles in weak light are tough. With some training you can do well in most conditions, but it's not exactly user-friendly.

I was shooting in -20C (-4F) this weekend, one need to hold one's breath while focusing to avoid getting breath on the loupe that fogs it (the ground glass is more resistant, I don't know why). The stiff oil in the gears and cold fingers were more problematic in those conditions though making it tougher to apply movements :).

Personally I don't like the idea of having an extra tablet on the side, one more thing to carry and setup, and one more electronic thing that can fail when weather is tough.

To me a proper CMOS live view on a decent back screen is the only real replacement of the ground glass, but it depends on your shooting style and shooting conditions what works for you.
 

Pemihan

Well-known member
I would say it depends a lot of your shooting style and subjects. I mainly shoot landscapes and have found the viewfinder, though not perfect, fits my style nicely. It's not 100% precise, but after getting used to it I can often compose the image in one shot. I also have the ground glass solution, but haven't really used it yet.

I bought the Leica D2 when I got my kit but never use it. When using the Rodie 40HR I mainly have it at or near infinity and some tilt depending on the scene. With the IQ backs focus mask is a godsend and the 100% zoom is really good.
 

darr

Well-known member
Before my WRS 1200/Rod. 40TS arrives (I've got a 380 back) I'm just trying to get all my ducks in a row so I can hit the ground running. For ~$1000 I can pick up a viewfinder, mask and Leica D2 and take my iPad along for the ride. For possibly the same amount (give or take) I can pick up a Surface Pro.. which is what I think a lot of people have been gravitating towards lately.

What is everyone's 'preferred' method? If I never plan on shooting handheld, is anything lost from not having the viewfinder? Is it worth getting both?

..Does anyone shoot without either?

Input greatly appreciated.

I use a Linhof Multifocus Viewfinder handheld for composition seeking. After my camera is setup, then I compose and focus via Live View (CFV-50c). Before I had a Live View DB, I used the ground-glass which I was accustomed to for many years coming from a 4x5". I personally like to travel light and do not find an additional electronic device attractive, but when it comes to tech cameras, whatever works for you, works.

Kind regards,
Darr
 

jlm

Workshop Member
for a while there was an interest in mounting your i-phone on the cambo, using it's camera as a viewfinder. I made a contraption that did it, as did others. works pretty well, though a bit rube goldberg. limitations are the max wide angle for the phone without an adapter is about 40mm and parallax if shooting close. and of course, it is not a focus aid, only a composition aid.

i tried the cambo viewfinder, but didn't think it was worth it. you can just eyeball the view and get pretty close, then
basically you take a shot and check what you got and adjust

what i do now is use a phone app from Viewfinder pro that will use the phone camera (i use it handheld to figure out the best lens for the field of view i want, as the app will put in frame lines and zoom for your back, lens combinations.

and i use a cmos back, same as Darr, so it has a very useful live view to check focus and composition.
 

jagsiva

Active member
I have a viewfinder for my Arca, also tried the various iPhone apps as well. I find that that just eyeballing the scene and then reviewing a couple of shots before taking the final works best. It is rare that the first shot is my keeper as I have to confirm focus anyway. Also, if I'm stitching, then I find that review on the back is the best way to go.

So now I rarely use a VF. If tethered, then the bigger screen is certainly better. I would invest in a surface pro rather than the VF. With the IQ380, you also have iPad with capture pilot as an option, but I think the wired Surface Pro with a full C1P is more robust and flexible.
 

Paul2660

Well-known member
I thought that Capture Pilot only supports Live View on the 250, 350 via wifi. That may have changed with the 380 as I have not kept up. But do check with your dealer. But the 380 is CCD so even if it works the blooming delay will cause issues.

As a tech user, Arca. I 100% would prefer Live View. When I briefly used an IQ150, I did love being able to frame the scene from the LCD on the back. The Arca viewfinder is OK, but is a bit of a hassle and as already mentioned is only giving you a close idea not exact.

As for Live View on CCD, even with Wayne's technique which I tried, IMO it just takes too much battery and generates way to much heat on the back. In my climate, Arkansas, midsouth, but even in Colorado. You can literally feel the back get quite warm running Live View. Even with the ND filter (which will not work with wides like the 23, 28 and 32mm you get plenty of blooming and each time you make any change, either focus, or aperture you bloom, and wait for the back to settle down. Inside different story works quite well, but I went back to the Arca variofinder for most setups.

Paul C
 

kdphotography

Well-known member
When I first acquired a technical camera, it was the Cambo, IQ180, and the HR40 t/s. This remains my favorite combination to this day. Initially I was concerned about a viewfinder, but it really hasn't been an issue. When I had a small micro 4/3 Panasonic GF-1, it worked pretty well mimicking the approximate field of view, and doubled as a great IR camera. I had the ground glass and cambo magnifier for a while, but never really used it. After a while, you get really really good at setting up the camera quickly and composing sans viewfinder. Usually a few test shots is the most I'll need to tweak composition with movements. Sometimes I'll scan the area with a viewfinder app on my phone handheld which helps judge focal lengths used in the composition.

With the Surface Pro tethered---you can do a lot more---although it does add some time and pack weight to the equation. I think your money would be well spent on a Surface Pro. I'll place bets the used/recertified market will open up more once the SP4 is released.

Ken
 

dchew

Well-known member
Another here who has a viewfinder but never uses it (IQ180). I carry the ground glass and sometimes use it for framing, especially when planning a two-image stitch. I do not use it for focusing; I use a Leica Disto for focusing.

Dave
 

jagsiva

Active member
I thought that Capture Pilot only supports Live View on the 250, 350 via wifi. That may have changed with the 380 as I have not kept up. But do check with your dealer. But the 380 is CCD so even if it works the blooming delay will cause issues.

Paul C
paul, as far as I understand, the 380 will do LV with the CCD limitations over WIFI. Apparently, it is improved over the 180, but not anywhere in the same league as CMOS. I would of course confirm with a dealer and/or hands on.
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
paul, as far as I understand, the 380 will do LV with the CCD limitations over WIFI. Apparently, it is improved over the 180, but not anywhere in the same league as CMOS. I would of course confirm with a dealer and/or hands on.
Negative.

Only WiFi Live View is using an IQ250 or IQ350.

The CCD backs do not support Live View over WiFi. Though of course they do support it on the LCD on the back of the camera or on a laptop or USB-supporting tablet like the Microsoft Surface.
 

jagsiva

Active member
Negative.

Only WiFi Live View is using an IQ250 or IQ350.

The CCD backs do not support Live View over WiFi. Though of course they do support it on the LCD on the back of the camera or on a laptop or USB-supporting tablet like the Microsoft Surface.
thanks Doug, I stand corrected. Do they still support WIFI tethering without LV?
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
I frame and compose roughly using the Alpa eFinder app for the iPhone with a wide angle lens adapter which gives me the correct view for the lens/sensor. Once I have the rough composition I'm after I'll set up the tripod and fine tune using live view with the MFDB.

I have the optical viewfinders and also ground glass but I don't use them any more. The optical viewfinder is a nice alternative to the eFinder app, especially unattached to the body.
 

fmueller

Active member
I frame and compose roughly using the Alpa eFinder app for the iPhone with a wide angle lens adapter which gives me the correct view for the lens/sensor. Once I have the rough composition I'm after I'll set up the tripod and fine tune using live view with the MFDB.

I have the optical viewfinders and also ground glass but I don't use them any more. The optical viewfinder is a nice alternative to the eFinder app, especially unattached to the body.
+1 except (with Credo 60) I don't use live view. I use the iPhone app "Mark II Artists Viewfinder" which is similar to ALPA e-finder. I use it handheld and wag it for the initial shot and revise camera position by reviewing on the rear LCD, sometimes a few iterations needed to get it just right. It goes fast. Works well. I am unconvinced that a mount is needed for the phone.

Just bought a Moment wide angle lens and mounting plate for iPhone 6s and can't say enough good things about it. You can use the mount on (underneath) most iPhone cases which means no need to use proprietary phone case or no case at all. The lens itself is worlds better than the Schneider iPhone lens it replaces. The accessory wide angle lens is not yet supported by the "Mark II Artists viewfinder" on the iPhone 6s series (developer tells me it will be by end of month) but is supported on iPhone 6, 5s, 5 and I think the 4 and 4s.
 

Jeffrey

Active member
Sometimes I use a Surface Pro II with Capture One for focusing, and sometimes I start at a meaningful place through experience and test shoot one or two shots to fine tune my "guestimates." More often than not I skip using the Surface Pro II and simply enjoy shooting.
 

vjbelle

Well-known member
Maybe I'm missing something but I can't imagine using anything other the LCD on the back of my IQ180 for composition. I approximate just by using my eyes and experience and then compose using LV on the back. If I'm either a little long or wide it takes just 30 seconds to change lenses. ND filters aren't needed since I can just stop down. I usually ballpark focus if over 150 feet and check focus on a test shot on the LCD or just take a quick Disto reading if under 150 feet. All of this is moot if I'm using my Leaf Credo 50..... then I just use LV for everything including tilt.

Victor
 
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Just bought a Moment wide angle lens and mounting plate for iPhone 6s and can't say enough good things about it. You can use the mount on (underneath) most iPhone cases which means no need to use proprietary phone case or no case at all. The lens itself is worlds better than the Schneider iPhone lens it replaces. The accessory wide angle lens is not yet supported by the "Mark II Artists viewfinder" on the iPhone 6s series (developer tells me it will be by end of month) but is supported on iPhone 6, 5s, 5 and I think the 4 and 4s.
I actually have the Moment Wide already ..and I was looking at picking up the 6+.

Do you think it's worth simply enabling wifi, composing with the phone via MII AV, and then using that same screen to review? Does that app indicate shift, too?
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
I think that you need to just get out and try shooting and develop a workflow. The various VF and review options all sound great in theory and you'll think that you need X or Y options but once you get used to it I'm sure you'll find very little need for various extra components.

Most of the time you'll know what focal length you'll want (or have) and so you'll be previsualizing the scene with that. Things like the iPhone apps or optical VF will help with testing compositions before setting up the camera. After that, I've personally found the same approach as others stated works - i.e. use live view for tuning composition or shoot and adjust. With the CMOS backs you can use it for focus and tilt too (it's fabulous!) but with the 40 TS you can pretty much just dial in a base amount (1-2 degrees at normal height - if you set up low or higher then you'll need more/less) and get away with a lot more DOF that the back might suggest.

I suspect that you'll find it a lot easier than you expect once you start shooting. You get very efficient with shooting after a while and will wonder what all the fuss was about. The only challenge that I've ever had was starting out with tilts in the absence of live view but typically only with longer lenses. In the end even that becomes second nature and starting with the 40mm it should be a lot easier to just go by the numbers. (I use snapi tilt calculator for iPhone).
 
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