Universalis

[NoBob]

Hi,

Does anybody know what the latest is regarding lenses that can be used on the Arca Swiss Universalis?

Thanks

 

[Paul2660]

Are you referring to Schneider/Rodenstock, or like Canon TS-E glass?

Currently I believe the widest lens on the Universalis with a Sony camera is the Schneider 35XL. Anything wider and you loose infinity.

Arca still is not shipping their focal plane shutter (FP) but showed it in operation at Photoexpo in NYC, working with a Canon TS-E lens. So I figure it's not far away from shipping. Chris Barrett, made a good post on this over on LuLa, with some pics.

Not sure on other manual/aperture lenses, Leica, Mamiya, etc.

Paul

 

[NoBob]

Thanks Paul,

Any lens really, but how do the Schneider 35XL and Sony body, separated by a bellows, communicate with each other?

 

[Paul2660]

With a tech lens, you have no aperture recorded by the camera, you are using the shutter of the camera.

What I do is open the copal all the way, allowing the max amount of light (you might see slight focus shift, I haven't), focus, then stop down the aperture you want on the lens.

When you fire the camera, the aperture is already fixed.

With a Canon lens, I believe you only need the Arca Canon mount board if you are shooting Universalis/sony A7 etc. I think you can still use the shutter of the Sony, the Arca canon board electronically fires the aperture in the Canon lens.
This was also announced at Photokina 2014, but I believe just starting to ship? You have to ask Arca, or a dealer.

I guess if you want to get real creative, you could use a MF back, say IQ180, with the FP (Focal shutter), then use the Canon board to allow use of the Canon TS-E lens on the IQ180. It's a bit convuluted for sure, and as Arca has no website, info is quite hard to come by.

Here is link to the post by Chris B.

Chris' Expo News

Paul C

- - - Updated - - -

Here is a link to Rod Klukas, the US Arca rep. Very knowledgeable in all Arca products and he was at Photoexpo, so he will have the latest info on Universalis stuff.

Arca-Swiss & Large Format Photography - Rod Klukas - Digital & Film - Photography Instruction & Photo Workshops

Paul C

 

[NoBob]

Thanks Paul.

 

[vjbelle]

You should be aware that any of the CCD backs are a real PITA to use with a Universalis/Actus. I have practiced with my IQ180 and finally gave up and ONLY use my Leaf Credo 50 which is just as easy to manually focus as a Nikon or Sony DSLR using live view.

Victor

 

[torger]

You should be aware that any of the CCD backs are a real PITA to use with a Universalis/Actus. I have practiced with my IQ180 and finally gave up and ONLY use my Leaf Credo 50 which is just as easy to manually focus as a Nikon or Sony DSLR using live view.

With the Universalis you can have a sliding back, you can't on the Actus, so I don't think the Actus is a good option for CCD backs.

With a sliding back it's fine, but you need to compose and focus on the ground glass which indeed can be tough, especially with SK35. In my Linhof Techno review here: Review: Linhof Techno I discuss ground glass focusing at length if anyone's interested.

I've only used Linhof sliding backs, but from what I've heard from other users and my own analysis I think that the Kapture Group sliding back is a better buy than the A/S native sliding back, first because Kapture Group's is significantly cheaper of course, but it also seems that the Maxwell Optics ground glass with integrated fresnel does wide angles like the SK35 better (=less bad) than Arca Swiss own ground glass.

As soon as I get CMOS live view I will throw out the sliding back, but meanwhile with CCDs I think it's a "good enough" solution, and I do focus the SK35 from time to time.

It seems like "NoBob" is more interested in using it with a Sony A7r though, so I guess it doesn't apply.

 

[vjbelle]

As soon as I get CMOS live view I will throw out the sliding back, but meanwhile with CCDs I think it's a "good enough" solution, and I do focus the SK35 from time to time.

You sure will throw out the sliding back. But..... even with this gorgeous live view with longer lenses (120mm, 150mm, 180mm) focus is very critical.... its very easy to be a smidgen far or near so I still check the image afterwords.

Victor

 

[RodK]

Hi,

Does anybody know what the latest is regarding lenses that can be used on the Arca Swiss Universalis?

Thanks

The Arca-Swiss Canon lens board allows electronic control of the aperture of a Canon lens on either a 110/Universalis lensboard, or any 6x9 front Arca-Swiss camera. It also will not only set the aperture, but open shutter wide, then stop down with a push of a button to the shooting aperture. There will also be a board for RM3di/RL3di MF cameras, abit later in the Spring.

Lens wise the 17mm or 24mm, better than the 17mm, will now be a lens choice for MF with the Universalis or R series cameras.
It will also be excellent with almost any Mirrorless body, including Sony A7 series, on the Universalis DSLR.

Below find a note on lens choices I put together:


FFD for Canon, Nikon F, Sony and Leica. * Lens possibilities for DSLR use on Arca-Swiss Universalis, MF2, Monolith, or Fline.

Nikon F 46.5mm from lens mount (flange) to sensor

Canon EF and EFS 44mm from lens mount (flange) to sensor

Leica M 27.8mm from lens mount (flange) to sensor

Sony A7 series 19.6mm from lens mount (flange) to sensor

Hasselblad 500 and 2000 series 74.9mm from lens mount (flange) to sensor

You need to know the flange focal distance for the lens,(FFD), less the flange distance to end of rear group.
Compare this to body/mirror box/lens mount depth of body, shown above, of lens at infinity.

The net number must be greater than the Net FFD, listed above, for your camera.

Some examples:

28mm 5.6 L Schneider Super digitar FFD: 35.2 Flange to end of lens 20.5 yielding 14.70 Will not work!

28mm 2.8 Schneider Apo-Digitar L FFD: 67.7 Flange to lens end 18.4 yielding 49.30 OK for Sony and Canon.
Gets so close to Nikon not really useable at infinity with movements
Lots of lateral chromatic aberrations when moved, unfortunately...

43mm Schneider Apo-Digitar XL FFD: 48.9mm. Flange to lens end 21.9mm yielding 27mm OK for Sony, Canon Nikon and Leica

40mm Rodenstock Apo-Digaron W FFD: 69.5mm. Flange to lens end 44.4mm yielding 25.1mm OK for Sony *

32mm Rodenstock Apo-Digaron W FFD: 69.2mm. Flange to lens end 46.9mm yielding 22.3mm Ok for Sony*

35mm Rodenstock HR-Digaron S(Apo-Sironar Digital) FFD: 34.8mm. Flange to lens end 10.5mm yielding 24.3mm OK for Sony*

35mm Schneider Apo-Digitar XL FFD: 39.4mm. Flange to lens end 17.4mm yielding 22mm OK for Sony*

50mm Apo-Digaron W FFD:76mm. Flange to lens end 44.3mm yielding 31.7mm OK for Sony or Leica M

60mm 5.6 Schneider Apo-Digitar FFD: 60. Flange to lens end 40.9mm yielding 19.1mm Will not work!

60mm 4.0 Schneider Apo-Digitar N FFD: 52.9 Flange to lens end 12.8 yielding 40.1mm OK for Sony

70mm Rodenstock Apo-Digaron FFD: 69.5mm. Flange to lens end 44.4mm yielding 25.1mm OK for Sony

72mm Schneider Apo-Digitar FFD: 68.4mm. Flange to lens end 9.8mm yielding 58.6mm OK for Sony, Nikon, Canon, and Leica.

Longer LF and MF digital lenses will have no problems.

* These focal length and particular design, lenses will work on small view cameras designed for mounting the above mentioned brands to work with DSLRs.
But please be careful, as you will be moving the glass surfaces very close to the metal of the mounts,
especially when focus is at infinity. Be gentle...

This should clear up some confusion.

The Focal Plane shutter with DEX controller, is coming soon. We are hopeful for first deliveries in December, or January at the latest.

Hope this helpful.
Rod

 

[Paul2660]

Hi Rod.

Great note.

One question. On the 60 XL Schneider F 5.6 your note says it won't work. I used the 60 XL With the Arca DSLR2 and Sony A7R with no problems. 60 XL in R mount. When you say won't work do you mean with the Universalis? Just curious why this lens won't work with the Universalis/Sony when it's fine with the DSLR2 or M2.

Thanks
Paul C

 

[NoBob]

Thanks Rod. Great info. Will you be posting an update here when the Canon shutter becomes available?

 

[RodK]

Hi Rod.

Great note.

One question. On the 60 XL Schneider F 5.6 your note says it won't work. I used the 60 XL With the Arca DSLR2 and Sony A7R with no problems. 60 XL in R mount. When you say won't work do you mean with the Universalis? Just curious why this lens won't work with the Universalis/Sony when it's fine with the DSLR2 or M2.

Thanks
Paul C

You are correct. I mistakenly wrote 60 for FFD, and it should have been 67.3 yielding a clearance of 26.40 and therefore would work fine as you found in use.
Thanks for catching that.
I will fix it on my chart now.
Be well,
Rod

 

[RodK]

Re: Universalis and FFd chart

Here is corrected chart for any who want to keep it around for reference:

FFD for Canon, Nikon F, Sony and Leica. * Lens possibilities for DSLR use on Arca-Swiss Universalis, MF2, Monolith, or Fline.


Nikon F 46.5mm from lens mount (flange) to sensor

Canon EF and EFS 44mm from lens mount (flange) to sensor

Leica M 27.8mm from lens mount (flange) to sensor

Sony A7 series 19.6mm from lens mount (flange) to sensor

Hasselblad 500 and 2000 series 74.9mm from lens mount (flange) to sensor

You need to know the flange focal distance for the lens,(FFD), less the flange distance to end of rear group.
Compare this to body/mirror box/lens mount depth of body, shown above, of lens at infinity.

The net number must be greater than the Net FFD, listed above, for your camera.

Some examples:

28mm 5.6 L Schneider Super digitar FFD: 35.2 Flange to end of lens 20.5 yielding 14.70 Will not work!

28mm 2.8 Schneider Apo-Digitar L FFD: 67.7 Flange to lens end 18.4 yielding 49.30 OK for Sony and Canon.
Gets so close to Nikon not really useable at infinity with movements
Lots of lateral chromatic aberrations when moved, unfortunately...

43mm Schneider Apo-Digitar XL FFD: 48.9mm. Flange to lens end 21.9mm yielding 27mm OK for Sony, Canon Nikon and Leica

40mm Rodenstock Apo-Digaron W FFD: 69.5mm. Flange to lens end 44.4mm yielding 25.1mm OK for Sony *

32mm Rodenstock Apo-Digaron W FFD: 69.2mm. Flange to lens end 46.9mm yielding 22.3mm Ok for Sony*

35mm Rodenstock HR-Digaron S(Apo-Sironar Digital) FFD: 34.8mm. Flange to lens end 10.5mm yielding 24.3mm OK for Sony*

35mm Schneider Apo-Digitar XL FFD: 39.4mm. Flange to lens end 17.4mm yielding 22mm OK for Sony*

50mm Apo-Digaron W FFD:76mm. Flange to lens end 44.3mm yielding 31.7mm OK for Sony or Leica M

60mm 5.6 Schneider Apo-Digitar FFD: 67.3 Flange to lens end 40.9mm yielding 26.4mm OK for Sony

60mm 4.0 Schneider Apo-Digitar N FFD: 52.9 Flange to lens end 12.8 yielding 40.1mm OK for Sony

70mm Rodenstock Apo-Digaron FFD: 69.5mm. Flange to lens end 44.4mm yielding 25.1mm OK for Sony

72mm Schneider Apo-Digitar FFD: 68.4mm. Flange to lens end 9.8mm yielding 58.6mm OK for Sony, Nikon, Canon, and Leica.

Longer LF and MF digital lenses will have no problems.

* These focal length and particular design, lenses will work on small view cameras designed for mounting the above mentioned brands to work with DSLRs.
But please be careful, as you will be moving the glass surfaces very close to the metal of the mounts,
especially when focus is at infinity. Be gentle...

Hope this helps,
Rod

 

[T.Dascalos]

The Focal Plane shutter with DEX controller, is coming soon. We are hopeful for first deliveries in December, or January at the latest.

Rod

Rod, could you please explain how the focal plane shutter will work on multishot mode with (say) Sinar 6.1.2 software? What the hardware selection should be for one to have the software to recognize the set up?

Also, do you consider a Contax 645 lens board now that the Eos board is ready and the interface is similar?

And another question, do you consider adapters with mirrorless mount that will plug directly on the same hinges as MFDBs do, so that one may be able to simply detach the MFDB and attach the mirrorless on?

Thanks,

 

[T.Dascalos]

With the Universalis you can have a sliding back, you can't on the Actus, so I don't think the Actus is a good option for CCD backs.

With a sliding back it's fine, but you need to compose and focus on the ground glass which indeed can be tough, especially with SK35. In my Linhof Techno review here: Review: Linhof Techno I discuss ground glass focusing at length if anyone's interested.

I've only used Linhof sliding backs, but from what I've heard from other users and my own analysis I think that the Kapture Group sliding back is a better buy than the A/S native sliding back, first because Kapture Group's is significantly cheaper of course, but it also seems that the Maxwell Optics ground glass with integrated fresnel does wide angles like the SK35 better (=less bad) than Arca Swiss own ground glass.

As soon as I get CMOS live view I will throw out the sliding back, but meanwhile with CCDs I think it's a "good enough" solution, and I do focus the SK35 from time to time.

It seems like "NoBob" is more interested in using it with a Sony A7r though, so I guess it doesn't apply.

I have a different proposal than using a sliding back at all with CCD backs that should also work very well with other backs than the Contax 645 backs I use...

What I've ended up with, is to use a film back case of the Contax and glue a (very bright with Fresnel) Hartblei screen which I've cut for height as to change the ratio of it at 4:3 (it is square), the width needs no cutting, it is exactly the same size as the film backs opening. Then, I've removed the port and cut most of the bottom side of the film back so that the Hartblei chimney finder/magnifier would fit over the screen and secured it there. This way one can just take the back off and attach the (what was a) film case instead and vise versa in seconds...

Another advantage I found by doing the above, is that one can very easily shim the screen to be "dead on" for focus accuracy with respect to the back's sensor.

 

[mandonbossi]

Also, do you consider a Contax 645 lens board now that the Eos board is ready and the interface is similar?


I would also be very interested in such an adapter as have seen some very encouraging samples of these lenses, both in terms of large image circle and sharpness.. Just need a way to control the aperture!

Any prospect of this happening with the Universalis?

 

[T.Dascalos]

Also, do you consider a Contax 645 lens board now that the Eos board is ready and the interface is similar?


I would also be very interested in such an adapter as have seen some very encouraging samples of these lenses, both in terms of large image circle and sharpness.. Just need a way to control the aperture!

Any prospect of this happening with the Universalis?

There is a (DIY) way in working around this, but one has to sacrifice a Contax 645 body and it includes some personal involvement and some (basic) skills... The solution is applicable to many view cameras that have the ability to have their lens mount plate on the front standard to come real close to the rear standard.

I am working on this currently using a Rollei xAct as a base which will end up having Contax lens mount, focal plane shutter, automatic aperture control, it will accept MFDBs for Contax cameras on it (the ones with multishot ability too), but will also work with mirrorless and even with Contax film backs with automatic film rewind...

 

[RodK]

Rod, could you please explain how the focal plane shutter will work on multishot mode with (say) Sinar 6.1.2 software? What the hardware selection should be for one to have the software to recognize the set up?

Also, do you consider a Contax 645 lens board now that the Eos board is ready and the interface is similar?

And another question, do you consider adapters with mirrorless mount that will plug directly on the same hinges as MFDBs do, so that one may be able to simply detach the MFDB and attach the mirrorless on?

Thanks,

The shutter is self-cocking and will have bracket abilities as well.
I am not sure as i am not knowledgeable about how the software you mentioned works.
The MPU can be connected to a computer though, through a network cable.
The remote is a wireless control to open, close and fire the shutter.

We are considering the Contax 645 lenses for a lens board, but no decision yet.

We do not feel that a plate adapter works well as it introduces mechanical vignetting with the tube required to mount the body. The body also usually has a grip which protrudes forward, further increasing the length of the tube and therefore Mechanical vignetting. For example, the grip on an A7RII is deeper then that of the A7R...

In the case of the Universalis, in particular, you can detach the front of the bellows, and detach entire DSLR assembly from the back function carrier and attach the MF back assembly and connect bellows to front, and vise-versa, very quickly. Remember, the change in format, will also alter the lens appearance. A 50mm on MF is wide angle while a 50mm on a FF Mirrorless or Nikon/Canon, is a normal lens.

Hope this helps.
Rod

 

[T.Dascalos]

We do not feel that a plate adapter works well as it introduces mechanical vignetting with the tube required to mount the body. The body also usually has a grip which protrudes forward, further increasing the length of the tube and therefore Mechanical vignetting. For example, the grip on an A7RII is deeper then that of the A7R...


Hope this helps.
Rod

Hi, thanks for the reply, what if the adapter would have a slight conical shape towards the mirrorless mount? This should take care of the possible vignetting... I insist on this because it is important for some pros to just detach one and plug the other in between the same project... You may as well consider making such an adapter with a warning that some lenses won't do...

I am working on a personal DIY project currently, where I am using a Contax 645 camera's mount on the front mount & the whole back plate of it with the shutter and the CPUs included on the rear mount of a Rollei xAct 2 body and then the electronics on a separate box which will be connected with front and rear standard via (flex) cables and attached at the edge of the rear standard.
The solution I came up with for the visual screen & the ability to use mirrorless also, is to convert the cases of two film backs, one to have the screen & magnifier and another to use as base for the mirrorless, so that one can simply attach one and detach the other.
The calculations show that there will be no problem with the mirrorless and MF or enlarger lenses, there can be a problem with some traditional lenses and the Canon TS are near the limit as to touch the shutter... but I'm not going to use the Canons anyway since I recently found that the Pentax 645 25mm can be converted for Contax mount and thus I will use that instead...

I think you should consider making a "direct" adapter shaped conical to add the distance needed as to allow for the mirrorless grip, as many pros are looking for solutions which will shrink as much as possible the equipment they have to carry, yet adapting it to as many tasks as possible... So I think there will be a large number of pros that will decide to use their MF lenses for all tasks.

 

[T.Dascalos]

Shall I guess that this won't be discussed anymore?