Tech System Built around IQx50 / CMOS back

[GrahamWelland]

So having been liberated of my Alpa and lenses but luckily still in possession of my IQ150 and Cambo Actus I'm rebuilding the outfit and thought I'd ask about lens options.

Right now I've bought a replacement Rodenstock 32HR as the base lens and now need to flesh out the other lenses. So far I'm looking at:

Rodie 32HR
Rodie 70HR
SK 120

other options would be the:

Rodie 32HR
SK 60XL
Rodie 90HRSW
SK 150

Other thoughts or feedback? I'm inclined to go with the smaller outfit but I don't have first hand experience with the Rodie 70HR although I have owned/shot the SK 72L for a while but not with my CMOS back.

 

[voidshatter]

Time to build your Christmas tree!

 

[voidshatter]

Other thoughts or feedback? I'm inclined to go with the smaller outfit but I don't have first hand experience with the Rodie 70HR although I have owned/shot the SK 72L for a while but not with my CMOS back.

I have shot both the 70HR and the 72XL (actually 75XL for the Alpa version) with the CMOS back. Both work fine but personally I prefer the 75XL for better portability. The chromatic aberration also seems to be better controlled on the 75XL.

When heavily shifted you would need to shoot LCC for the 70HR, and the sample I tested didn't perform very well for me probably due to slightly off-centered alignment. Though I have never heavily shifted the 75XL as I use it on an Alpa 12 STC and the maximum shift allowed is just 18mm.

The 90HRSW is a monster but the size and weight is also monstrous. Given that both 70HR and 75XL can do just fine, I did not opt for that monstrous 90HRSW.

 

[GrahamWelland]

My dealer is recommending the Rodie 70 over the Schneider due to the retro focus (well, and Schneider long term support). I did look at the older discussions of 72L vs 70 HR.

The 90 HRSW does appeal due to the pure performance but with the crop sensor it does cause problems with the intermediate focal lengths.

 

[vjbelle]

Graham..... are you rebuilding the Alpa outfit or building around the Cambo? I am building around my Cambo for numerous reasons. Firstly the same lanese are available at considerable savings but the most important gain with the Cambo is Yaw free tilt and swing...... worlds better than the Alpa.

Victor

 

[jlm]

I went 32,60,90, about the same fov i had used and liked with the iq160 and 43,70, 120
If the size of the 32 is no problem nevermind the 90
Might want to check how close you can focus with the 120 bearing in mind the slide limitations (may not be an issue) special treat is no extension needed with the actus, unlike the cambo wrs

 

[voidshatter]

My dealer is recommending the Rodie 70 over the Schneider due to the retro focus (well, and Schneider long term support). I did look at the older discussions of 72L vs 70 HR.

The 90 HRSW does appeal due to the pure performance but with the crop sensor it does cause problems with the intermediate focal lengths.

Talking about retro focus, I'm not quite sure about this. My test results on CMOS back shows that the 70HR may have more color cast when shifted. Also as the others mentioned in the old thread, the 70HR may be a tad soft when wide open.

Below shows LCC files for two lenses on the same IQ250 back. I use the "Pick White Balance" tool on the center of the unshifted LCC file, and adjust exposure to the middle, then copy and paste the adjustments to other LCC files of the same lens. I hope this shows a fair comparison of color cast.

 

[jagsiva]

32HR - I think this is a no brainer for wides especially on CMOS or 80MP backs. You had this lens before, I'm sure you know how great it s.

60XL - I went with this over the 70HR given the smaller size, larger IC (120mm) and better focal length match to the 32HR ( I later added the 40HR as well because I am a gear slut, but was able to convince myself that the 40HR provided a portable alternative to the 32HR)

90HRSW - large IC compared to the 90HRW, and better performance. Some have also complained about flare with the HRW. The HRSW is the best performing lens I have used on any platform and with the 32HR makes a great 2 lens kit. Downsides are that it is large, but if you're used to the 32HR, it's not a problem. It also requires a back/barrel extension. The cost is substantial vs. the older 90HRW, but you only live once

120SK ASPH - This a pretty sweet lens. The IC is huge at 150mm, it is very sharp and it is tiny. By tech lens measures it is also quite affordable. It does need a rather long barrel/back extension, but Alpa's newer helical with what looks like great markings looks very nice. I have the Arca version.

Longer - I don't currently have anything longer than 120mm, but waiting for either a next gen SK or Rodie. The current Rodies don't offer very large IC's. I'm hoping that SK come out with a 150 or 180 along ASPH similar to the 120, but based on forum ramblings, this may not be likely anytime soon.

Good luck, exciting times!

 

[Paul2660]

On the IQ150, I was able to shift the 60XL quite a bit, to the almost to the max on the rm3di when rotated, which allows 30mm and 20mm shifts. The 60 held up to 25mm with the CF. There of course will be color cast but C1 seems to do a good job with it. The 60XL is light but also seem best suited for apertures in the F11 to F16 range. Hopefully Schneider will continue to service their lenses for some time into the future.

I have never used the 70 HR-W, but it's safe to assume it has the same IC edge indicator built in. With a IC of 100mm you still should get quite a lot of movement on the IQ150. No CF is needed either, so you won't loose any shutter speed, (not as much as issue with the IQ150 as can always use a higher iso). Not sure if the 70mm has the same ghosting problems of the 90mm HR, and the potential flare problems of the 40mm?

The 120mm Asph, wonderful, great small lens with a huge amount of movement. On the Arca I need the back extension, but I am assuming on the Aptus, no need for this. You also have a surprised close focus distance, even though this is not the macro version of the lens.

Paul C

 

[Jeffrey]

I have the Rodi 40mm and 70 mm and love them both, using them on my Cambo WRS5000 with a Phase One IQ380 back. I'm far from qualified or knowledgeable on the technical variations of the various lenses. I just know what works for me, and works well at that.

 

[Stephan S]

I started working with a tech camera because I wanted to achieve the closest possible verisimilitude to the scene in front of me, or at the least, as I imagine the scene should appear in its printed form.

For me there is a certain satisfaction in knowing I did an image justice. That I've seen it, not just well, but given that there is this vast ocean of zombie-like casual snapping spreading to nearly every corner of the visible world, that I've recorded an image with finality, singularity. I don't enjoy thinking, well.. I guess it could have been a little nicer here or there. No! I want to capture THE image.

There's a lot more to image making than lenses, and I wish you could, but you can't make every picture with just one lens. All this to say, that when ink hit's paper, there's only one lens that gives me this kind of satisfaction, it's the 90HRSW.

Best of luck putting the new kit together,

-Stephan

 

[Ken_R]

I have the 70mm HR-W and it works great with my IQ160 (on the RM3Di) at the full 15mm L/R shift + about 5-6mm of rise/fall. Have not tried any more. Will do more tests but overall the LCC did not look too extreme. Pretty well behaved lens, no nonsense.

 

[MILESF]

Graham,

I have the 32HR, SK60XL, 90HRSW, SK120 and they are all lovely to use. I also have the Rodenstock 23mm but that is quite a specialist item and would be the one I would probably not re-buy.

I'm not sure if A-S is an option for you but they made me a front spacer for the 120mm so that I can share the 90mm rear spacer between both the 90mm and 120mm lenses and this saves a good amount of space in the bag and a little weight. A-S said they wouldn't want to do this for the SK150mm.

I did also have some issue with focussing the 90mm at f5.6 which was solved by a minor adjustment (turning two small screws) in the RM3d Factum body and it then to allows the helical to go past zero to minus 1 where the focus at f5.6 is fine. From f8 upwards the offset is same across all the lenses (+0.5 or +1).

Tilting the 90mm can give a lovely combination of foreground in focus and keeping distant elements a good size.

If I had to cut the number of lenses to save weight on a particular shoot I would probably drop the 120mm first, then the 60mm. If I could only take one lens it would probably be a choice between the 32mm or the 60mm depending on the location. I can get a good wide angle from using lateral shift (plus tilt) on the Factum/60mm provided the scene is still. Otherwise it would be the 32mm with less leeway for tilt and shift.

The Sony RX1-R has been my backup for bad weather and places (eg slippery rocks) where I don't want to risk the technical camera, lenses and back. It's good to see people on the Sony forum talking about the RX1-R ii giving images with an almost medium format feel to them.

 

[cnabbott]

Grahm:

I have the rodie 50 and 90 and I have used the 32. Talk to CI about the 50. I find it to be great lens. Everything that needs to be said about the 90 and the sk120 has been said.

Maybe 32, 50, 90 and either the 120 or 170?

Curtiss

 

[dougpeterson]

So having been liberated of my Alpa and lenses but luckily still in possession of my IQ150 and Cambo Actus I'm rebuilding the outfit and thought I'd ask about lens options

Since you have a clean slate, have you backed out to the wider view and considered whether you want to switch from Alpa to Cambo or Arca?

We'd be glad to help you make a comparison to an Arca R or Cambo Wide.

 

[GrahamWelland]

This time I'm leveraging the Cambo Actus DB+ as my base system for tech camera vs a proprietary system with helicoids / mounts etc and the associated extra expense. With CMOS live view I've been very happy with the Cambo and in fact was using my Alpa mounted lenses on it more than I was on the Alpa bodies.

I had the Rodie 90 HRW and 40 HR (and SK 150) when I shot with my IQ260 and found those focal lengths worked well. When I got the IQ150 I changed the Rodie 40 to the 32 which was a better focal length with the cropped sensor, although the spacing from 32 to 90 was a little far at times and I was contemplating the 60XL as the intermediate lens. I was thinking that the 70 & 120 might fill the range with the 44x33 sensor better this time around.

It certainly would be good to be able to plan around a full size CMOS 80mp sensor - that would without a doubt be the 32/60/90 system.

 

[dougpeterson]

This time I'm leveraging the Cambo Actus DB+ as my base system for tech camera vs a proprietary system with helicoids / mounts etc and the associated extra expense. With CMOS live view I've been very happy with the Cambo and in fact was using my Alpa mounted lenses on it more than I was on the Alpa bodies.

As you'll recall Arca builds their helicoid into the body, which means their R-mount lenses (which can be used on a Universalis or on a Cambo with adapter) are lighter and smaller than the proprietary Alpa mounted lenses. Add to this their engineer-not-fashion business gestalt and the markup to buy an R-mount lens rather than a naked lens is quite reasonable when compared to Alpa.

If going with just or mostly the Actus I think it's even more important to avoid any Schneider lenses on the wide and normal range as their symmetrical designs lead to a harder time focusing on a bellows style camera (regardless of the precision of that system).

 

[DougDolde]

Why not forget tech cam and buy the XF plus new 35mm to start. Excuse me if you already have one, But it's quite IQ180 friendly as well

I have to admit to prejudice, I don't like tech cams.

I can see the virtues, light weight for hiking, hmm trying to think of another. Well yes superb lens quality but with the new Phase One 35mm and 40-80mm (which I have) who needs tech lenses ? OK you are able to shift which could be valuable for an architectural photog but for landscape who needs it?

I can also see the vices. no autofocus, no exact framing without serious effort, LCC capture a PITA

Anyway just my two cents.

 

[GrahamWelland]

Why not forget tech cam and buy the XF plus new 35mm to start. Excuse me if you already have one, But it's quite IQ180 friendly as well

I have to admit to prejudice, I don't like tech cams.

I can see the virtues, light weight for hiking, hmm trying to think of another. Well yes superb lens quality but with the new Phase One 35mm and 40-80mm (which I have) who needs tech lenses ? OK you are able to shift which could be valuable for an architectural photog but for landscape who needs it?

I can also see the vices. no autofocus, no exact framing without serious effort, LCC capture a PITA

Anyway just my two cents.

Unfortunately technical cameras and DSLRs are like chalk & cheese. I don't have the XF but I do have a pretty complete DF+ system from 28mm through to 240mm. The new body does appeal but the problem for me personally is the lack of lenses with movements. The system as far as I am concerned doesn't have any in the focal lengths I want.

 

[torger]

OK you are able to shift which could be valuable for an architectural photog but for landscape who needs it?

I do

Let's not forget tilt/swing too, which may actually be a key feature to make use of all those megapixels, unless you're into focus stacking.

But sure it depends on your photographic style. If you're used to shifting and tilting it's hard to be without though, render trees upright, make front anchors sharp etc. There are tilt-shift lenses for DSLRs, but it's basically only the Canon TS-E 24 and 17mm that are any good, concerning lens quality and flexibility in tilt/shift settings.

Here's one shot, made with the SK47mm with lots of shift down (or actually back shifted up):



Sure I could have pointed the camera down instead of shifting, but having the camera (almost) level makes the perspective both stricter and more dramatic at the same time, at least I think so. Camera movements is an integral part of my landscape photography style, and it's not something I'd like to give up.

I'm pretty allergic to ultra-wide shots with trees angled strongly inwards or outwards, which to me is a typical "DSLR perspective".