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New to MF: Thoughts on Hassey vs. Phase One

michaelclark

New member
Jerome -

Elinchrom strobes have some very short flash durations particularly at full power when compared to Profot and Broncolor. They will work just fine - it is just a matter of finding a transceiver to trigger them as with any other brand of strobe with Leaf Shutter lenses. Most sports photographers shoot with Elinchrom strobes because they have some of the fastest flash durations at full power of any brand out there. To be clear here, I suppose most folks haven't read the beginning of this thread, the MF gear would not be for high action but for other scenarios where the subject wasn't moving really fast and also for Portraits and Action.

Check out Tim Kemple's work - he is Phase One's major photographer these days and he shoots tons of action with his Phase One MF setup:

http://www.kemplemedia.com/commercial/phase-one/1

It can certainly be done using Hyperlocal distance focusing techniques.

For most of my action spots photography I will certainly be using my Nikons but for other stuff that is why I am looking at the Hasselblad and Phase One offerings.

Cheers, Michael

Either system is stellar, the systems are roughly equivalent. The differences are mainly ergonomic (especially for the tethering software: Capture 1 versus Focus/Lightroom) and the rendering of the lenses.

This being said, I had a look at your web site and I am a bit puzzled as to why you would buy an IQ350 or H5D50c. The only reason would be to feed your Epson 9880, but do you print large often enough? If you do, then the better MF lenses will show on 44" prints, but a larger sensor would be even better (and cheaper).

For the rest: Elinchrom high-speed flashes are not designed for a central shutter (you'll need flashes with short duration for this kind of shutter) and MF cameras are not better than 24x36 DSLRs for action shots. What do you have in mind with your future MF camera?
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
I believe you can work on blad Raws in Lightroom
Both Hassy and Phase Raws can be opened in generic raw processors like LightRoom.

But it is pretty universally (90%+) recognized among users of both brands that the best results are had by using the coupled raw processor (Phocus for Hassy and C1 for Phase). Not a big surprise given the programmers for those have the best access to the cameras, technical info, and are financially and personally motivated to make sure their processing is fine tuned for their respective cameras, whereas for generic processors like LightRoom they are just one of hundreds of cameras on more-or-less equal footing.
 

jerome_m

Member
Jerome -

Elinchrom strobes have some very short flash durations particularly at full power when compared to Profot and Broncolor. They will work just fine - it is just a matter of finding a transceiver to trigger them as with any other brand of strobe with Leaf Shutter lenses. Most sports photographers shoot with Elinchrom strobes because they have some of the fastest flash durations at full power of any brand out there.
I did not know these lights had a short duration modus. I saw that they could be used for so-called "hypersync" and that normally implies long durations.


Check out Tim Kemple's work - he is Phase One's major photographer these days and he shoots tons of action with his Phase One MF setup:

http://www.kemplemedia.com/commercial/phase-one/1

It can certainly be done using Hyperlocal distance focusing techniques.
On can certainly shoot action with a MF camera, but what would the benefits be for you? Some photographers use MF for huge prints, that may be a reason. Others, like Tim Kemple apparently, have a MF brand as sponsor. A third reason could be the flash capabilities of a central shutter, some unique action pictures were made in that way. Does any of this applies to you?

Something else: I see many pictures taken with a wide-angle on your site. That is a specific advantage of Hasselblad: they have a 24mm while Phase stops at 28mm. That may be important, especially with the CMOS sensor, which is a x1.3 crop.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Michael, obviously, there are pros and cons with any MFD choice.

For your stated purposes, any of them will do the job. Most of my experience has been with Hasselblad H and Leica S, so I will speak mostly to those experiences.

Software: Hasselblad and Leica have supplied all their proprietary profile data and DAC Lens Corrections to Adobe for inclusion in Adobe Camera RAW-LR Develop Module. Leica directly shoots DNG files and doesn't have their own RAW software. Hasselblad's Phocus is more sophisticated than would seem indicated on some forums, and is better for some types of critical color work and for tethered operation ... but in general LightRoom is quite good IF you already use it, know it, (especially if you use PS/Nik/Other Plug-Ins in tandem with it). When I have shot with either Hasselblad H or Leica S, it often was in tandem with a 35mm DSLR for more active images requiring that sort of AF performance. I sometimes process images from up to 4 different cameras in LR in order to maintain consistency, and keep all images from a job together in one LR Library and sorted by time shot.

Strobe work: Leica S, Hasselblad H and Phase One offer Leaf-Shutter solutions to better control bright ambient light in balance with strobe lights. Hasselblad H does up to 1/800, Leica does up to 1/1000, and Phase One up to 1/1600 (with the correct Profoto configuration). For the less active type work associated with MFD, action freezing flash duration is of less importance compared to full strobe output at a higher shutter speed (as long as that flash duration doesn't fall below the shutter speed in use). It is this sync speed that helps differentiate these systems from focal plane based cameras that tend to max out sync speeds at 1/250 or slower (1/125 for most focal plane Medium Format cameras). Phase One and Leica S also offer dual shutter capability so you can use their Focal Plane shutters up to 1/4000 in order to shoot fast apertures in brighter situations. Hasselblad is strictly a Leaf-Shutter camera with a max shutter speed of 1/800.

I believe you can remote trigger at these higher sync speeds with any strobe system by adding a Profoto AIR receiver to the Pack/Mono-Lights, or simply hard wire to a pack.

Auto Focus: For the type of work you indicated, Hasselblad has True Focus APL which his nothing short of amazing. It allows you to place focus on the subject, lock on TF, then reposition that subject anywhere in the frame
and the camera micro adjusts based on that movement to maintain critical subject focus. TF also micro adjusts if you alter aperture settings to account for any focus shift that may occur. The CMOS based Leica S(007) has added a read-out that allows you to see current DOF so you can employ hyper-focal-distance techniques. None of these MFD AF systems are as fast as even a mid-level 35mm DSLR.

Lenses: Hasselblad offers 24mm to 300mm and can employ older Zeiss Leaf-Shutter V lenses using a somewhat clunky adapter. The HC and HCD optics have been improved over time and the newer HC-50mm plays second fiddle to no one. Leica S offers 24mm to 180mm, and sells adapters for Hasselblad H and Zeiss Contax 645 optics while maintaining all electronic connections including full AF ability. The S can also take all Zeiss V lenses, Pentax 6X7 (and others I believe), but these are dumb adapters. I don't know what P1 offers in this regard.

Resolution: if comparing 40 to 50 meg capture, the resolution differences are splitting hairs IMO. For me it came down to how the lenses rendered with any given system ... I tended to favor Leica's look and feel, but that is pure subjectivity. Leica S optics were newly developed in tandem with the S camera, and where designed from the ground up so they are ALL very consistent one to the another.

Hope this helps a little,

- Marc
 

michaelclark

New member
Thanks - Great info Marc!

Michael, obviously, there are pros and cons with any MFD choice.

For your stated purposes, any of them will do the job. Most of my experience has been with Hasselblad H and Leica S, so I will speak mostly to those experiences.

Software: Hasselblad and Leica have supplied all their proprietary profile data and DAC Lens Corrections to Adobe for inclusion in Adobe Camera RAW-LR Develop Module. Leica directly shoots DNG files and doesn't have their own RAW software. Hasselblad's Phocus is more sophisticated than would seem indicated on some forums, and is better for some types of critical color work and for tethered operation ... but in general LightRoom is quite good IF you already use it, know it, (especially if you use PS/Nik/Other Plug-Ins in tandem with it). When I have shot with either Hasselblad H or Leica S, it often was in tandem with a 35mm DSLR for more active images requiring that sort of AF performance. I sometimes process images from up to 4 different cameras in LR in order to maintain consistency, and keep all images from a job together in one LR Library and sorted by time shot.

Strobe work: Leica S, Hasselblad H and Phase One offer Leaf-Shutter solutions to better control bright ambient light in balance with strobe lights. Hasselblad H does up to 1/800, Leica does up to 1/1000, and Phase One up to 1/1600 (with the correct Profoto configuration). For the less active type work associated with MFD, action freezing flash duration is of less importance compared to full strobe output at a higher shutter speed (as long as that flash duration doesn't fall below the shutter speed in use). It is this sync speed that helps differentiate these systems from focal plane based cameras that tend to max out sync speeds at 1/250 or slower (1/125 for most focal plane Medium Format cameras). Phase One and Leica S also offer dual shutter capability so you can use their Focal Plane shutters up to 1/4000 in order to shoot fast apertures in brighter situations. Hasselblad is strictly a Leaf-Shutter camera with a max shutter speed of 1/800.

I believe you can remote trigger at these higher sync speeds with any strobe system by adding a Profoto AIR receiver to the Pack/Mono-Lights, or simply hard wire to a pack.

Auto Focus: For the type of work you indicated, Hasselblad has True Focus APL which his nothing short of amazing. It allows you to place focus on the subject, lock on TF, then reposition that subject anywhere in the frame
and the camera micro adjusts based on that movement to maintain critical subject focus. TF also micro adjusts if you alter aperture settings to account for any focus shift that may occur. The CMOS based Leica S(007) has added a read-out that allows you to see current DOF so you can employ hyper-focal-distance techniques. None of these MFD AF systems are as fast as even a mid-level 35mm DSLR.

Lenses: Hasselblad offers 24mm to 300mm and can employ older Zeiss Leaf-Shutter V lenses using a somewhat clunky adapter. The HC and HCD optics have been improved over time and the newer HC-50mm plays second fiddle to no one. Leica S offers 24mm to 180mm, and sells adapters for Hasselblad H and Zeiss Contax 645 optics while maintaining all electronic connections including full AF ability. The S can also take all Zeiss V lenses, Pentax 6X7 (and others I believe), but these are dumb adapters. I don't know what P1 offers in this regard.

Resolution: if comparing 40 to 50 meg capture, the resolution differences are splitting hairs IMO. For me it came down to how the lenses rendered with any given system ... I tended to favor Leica's look and feel, but that is pure subjectivity. Leica S optics were newly developed in tandem with the S camera, and where designed from the ground up so they are ALL very consistent one to the another.

Hope this helps a little,

- Marc
 

Ken_R

New member
I am new to the GetDPI forums and I am seriously considering a medium format system. I have already checked out the Phase One XF and IQ350 backs, having received an email a few days about with the stellar deal on the Hasselblad H5D 50c WiFi, I was wondering if the more enlightened readers on this forum had any thoughts about these systems?

I realize that by asking about Phase One vs. Hasselblad I am kind of asking for it. I know both systems are excellent. If money were no object then I think the Phase One system is slightly superior - but not having used either for an extended period of time I thought I would ask here....thanks for any insight. I will be trying them both out before making a decision.
I prefer the PhaseOne IQ backs mainly due to the screen (and UI) and the software. Capture One is just too good. I use my IQ back on a Hasselblad H body though. (Although I got my gear years before the XF was announced)

Phase backs are tough and IMHO one of the best things ever designed and produced regardless of industry.
 

SrMphoto

Well-known member
For the heavy duty action I will be using DSLRs as I have done for a long time. I have shot some action with MF and it can be done using Hyperlocal distances. Rock Climbing and Ice Climbing in general have action but not fast motion so that is a great application for MF. I also shoot portraits and lifestyle images for the outdoor industry and that would be the bulk of the work I would shoot with MF Digital gear.



- - - Updated - - -

Can you work up Hasselblad images in Lightroom?
I use Lightroom with my H5D50c images frequently. Lightroom has lens corrections for HC and HCD lenses and supports 3FR raw files. However, Lightroom does not provide corrections for HTS (tilt/shift), converters and extension rings.
 
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