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calling H5D-50c users
- Thread starter Swissblad
- Start date
voidshatter
Member
Apart from buyer's remorse regarding massive depreciation (which should be treated as common for electronic products) I'm sure it's a very decent camera.Hi folks
I'm really enticed by the new rebate on the H5D-50c....... and would like to hear from any users ....
Thanks
S
The only question remains when Sony is going to announce the next 50+ MP sensor in 35mm format - probably in January? (According to Sonyalpharumors)
Bryan Stephens
Workshop Member
I have been severely tempted to buy back into the MF arena with either the Pentax 645z or now with the new offer on the Hasselblad H5D-50c
I was a Hassy shooter for many many years, but when I upgraded my IQ from the 180 to the 260 I got a DF+ as part of the deal so I ended up selling off my Hassy and lenses since I primarily was using my digital back on my tech cam. I much preferred the Hassy body and controls but that could be because I didn't shoot the Phase anywhere near as much and didnt get used to it.
With the Pentax I would get the body and 3 lenses for the same price I would get the Hassy H5D-50c for, but I did so love the Hasselblad body.
I doubt you would regret it.
I was a Hassy shooter for many many years, but when I upgraded my IQ from the 180 to the 260 I got a DF+ as part of the deal so I ended up selling off my Hassy and lenses since I primarily was using my digital back on my tech cam. I much preferred the Hassy body and controls but that could be because I didn't shoot the Phase anywhere near as much and didnt get used to it.
With the Pentax I would get the body and 3 lenses for the same price I would get the Hassy H5D-50c for, but I did so love the Hasselblad body.
I doubt you would regret it.
voidshatter
Member
I understand that. I also hate Sony's FF mirrorless for the way to choose AF mode and switch AF points as they lack a decent touch screen. I also hate Sony's STL as I never liked that structure (even worse than SLR). However, apart from our subjective feelings that we don't care about Sony's 35mm cameras, it is a fact of life that a smaller format with more pixels, when coupled with a decent enough lens, can beat a larger format with less pixels. An example would be the 645D vs the A7R-II as shown below:I really don't care about a 50mp+ 35mm camera......least of all a Sony. :thumbdown:
Sorry - dedicated Nikon and HB user.
Link for 645D sample image from Image-Resource: Link1
Link for A7R-II sample image from Image-Resource: Link2
The last time when the H4D-40 offered a huge discount was when Nikon announced their D800/D800E. I know that Hasselblad shooters wouldn't care about Nikon, but that's how market goes. A 50+ MP camera from Sony means a possibility for a Nikon D900 as well.
I know with a Sony 35mm camera you'll not get the leaf shutter for 1/800 sync, or the feeling of wielding a medium format. Sometimes only personal preference matters.
I upgraded from the H4D-40 to the H5D-50c and I am really loving it. The sensor is amazing and the True Focus II is great. I also got the 50mm II lens to add to my collection of lenses and it is an amazing lens. My favorite thing about the Hasselblad system is the HTS 1.5 tilt-shift adapter - it becomes a technical camera but with many electronic help (except autofocus), e.g. exposure metering, lens correction, etc.Hi folks
I'm really enticed by the new rebate on the H5D-50c....... and would like to hear from any users ....
Thanks
S
Swissblad
Well-known member
I'll wait for a similar Nikon development - been using their bodies for the past 30 years - too familiar with the ergonomics to switch.
- - - Updated - - -
Thanks - very helpful.
Still need to convince the finance ministry....
voidshatter
Member
I like Nikon ergonomics too! However there is no 17mm TS-E lens for Nikon. Lacking a killer wide-angle lens is really a waste of the astonishing dynamic range. Besides that, some "inside source" just told me that Nikon is currently focusing on the D5, indicating no D900 to utilize the 50+ MP Sony sensor in the near future...
rmueller
Well-known member
Hi S,
don't own the H5D-50c (yet) but as an owner of an old H3DII-31 considering to upgrade to a new H system soon I'd
like to share some thoughts for your consideration:
- My wife recently got the CFV50c and i believe the sensor is the same as in the H5D50c. The technical image quality
is beyond what i have seen so far, its just phenomenal. Life View works well and is responsive when modifying focus
We have a CFV-16 (which has its own strengths) and the H3D31II to compare with but the CFV50c is in another league
altogether. PM me if you'd like some raw files.
- There will be something new coming in the H lineup at photokina 2016, no idea what it is but our dealer indicated that
to us. Might be part of the reason HB has those promotions at the moment, who knows.
I for myself will most likely not jump onto the H5D50c at this point. Will wait for photokina'16 and then make a decision.
The good thing with those promotions is that its hard to justify for any vendor to increase prices after the promotion ends
so I'd hope the prices for the H5D50c won't go up again.
Anyway, the offering is indeed tempting, above is just my personal thought. If you're after it go for it, its a great system
for a good price, you can't do anything wrong here.
Best Regards,
Ralf
don't own the H5D-50c (yet) but as an owner of an old H3DII-31 considering to upgrade to a new H system soon I'd
like to share some thoughts for your consideration:
- My wife recently got the CFV50c and i believe the sensor is the same as in the H5D50c. The technical image quality
is beyond what i have seen so far, its just phenomenal. Life View works well and is responsive when modifying focus
We have a CFV-16 (which has its own strengths) and the H3D31II to compare with but the CFV50c is in another league
altogether. PM me if you'd like some raw files.
- There will be something new coming in the H lineup at photokina 2016, no idea what it is but our dealer indicated that
to us. Might be part of the reason HB has those promotions at the moment, who knows.
I for myself will most likely not jump onto the H5D50c at this point. Will wait for photokina'16 and then make a decision.
The good thing with those promotions is that its hard to justify for any vendor to increase prices after the promotion ends
so I'd hope the prices for the H5D50c won't go up again.
Anyway, the offering is indeed tempting, above is just my personal thought. If you're after it go for it, its a great system
for a good price, you can't do anything wrong here.
Best Regards,
Ralf
i too hope that with the help of fuji hassalblad will show us a real modern state of the art mf camera and not just a pimped version of the same old technology like the new phaseone.
Swissblad
Well-known member
Thanks for the info Ralf, and kind offer - I'll take you up on that.
I'm playing around with my old H3D31 - and it is a nice feeling - somehow MF does have a different magic.
:thumbup:
Camera gear does not make good financial instruments. Horrible ones in fact. And medium format digital is even worse given the much higher prices and correspondingly higher depreciation in cash terms but not in % of purchase $ terms. I mean a Canon that was 3500 new might go for 1000 in 4-5 years, thats over 70% decrease, get a H5D-50c now for 15K and in 4-5 years it mill most likely still be worth well over 5k so % wise it has less depreciation. Yes, full price a Phase One IQ Back might be the worst (lets take a IQ380 for $49k list, in 4-5 years you sell it for $15k (on the low side), thats about 70% depreciation, same as the Canon, lot more money yes, but % wise, about the same).
If you want to have a much lower % of depreciation then buy used. There are a LOT of options nowadays.
Of all the digital backs Id say the sweet spot is the IQ160. It works well with a wide range of lenses including tech camera lenses, the large sensor gives you wider angle of view with available lenses, tethers very well, produces really nice file with deep color depth and differentiation and dynamic range plus gobs of resolution potential. It is still expensive but can be had at a price that won't depreciate much. The Credo 60 is similar for a few grand less although the IQ series is/feels more robust and have a few more features. Once the IQ150 are available at lower prices that is a great back as well, specially for SLR use and longer focal lengths. The Credo 40 and IQ140 backs are also very very nice specially if you do not mind the crop, they are very nice backs for tech camera use.
Regarding whats next from Sony it doesnt really matter. The current cameras/backs will still depreciate (as explained above) and its not like the current sensors are gonna stop working when the new Sony comes out.
voidshatter
Member
I agree. If you buy the Hasselblad at full price then the depreciation could still be high. If you buy used Phase One and sell it with a trade-in offer when a new product is released, then the depreciation could be even less. However if a product is offering a huge discount then there is indication that it *may* soon lose the technology superiority due to something new is going to be released soon.
Yes it is perhaps still the best sweet spot for architecture I believe.
Not true when you need shift capability for wide angles. For single exposure, you could get a wider angle of view with an IQ150 + 23HR combo than that you could get with an IQ160 + 32HR combo.
Agreed. Just lacks a good Live View.
This is perhaps useless as the lower 4-bits out of the 16-bits are noise. The only possible usage for the extra color bit precision is perhaps when I want to do heavy post-processing of a certain flat highlight area with almost pure color and attempt to bring out texture details out of it by applying some heavy HDR filters or super-micro-contrast boost.
Given that it is compared against Canon, and is not doing long exposure.
No doubt it is still providing sufficient pixel count and sharpness, and has more tolerance for lenses than smaller formats like 44x33.
Not quite sure about this, as the P25+ still had further room to depreciate. However I get your point that when the second hand price is below a certain threshold you no longer care about depreciation that much.
I still believe it matters and the depreciation of medium format is driven by technology advancement of 35mm format. However I agree with you that you wouldn't need to care about these 35mm format products when your shooting requirements are relying on heavily specialized gear such like technical cameras (if depreciation is nothing to be worried about).
I believe the IQ150 (and any of the backs with the same sensor) do not work well with the 23HR lens at all. The alternative is the Canon 24mm TS-E II (which also works well on the IQ160 where you get wider angle of view in a single shot) but obviously you need a shutter unit system.
35mm is limited and always will be by the size of the sensor. Its just physics. Yes it is at the forefront of technology since its the format with the much higher sales (in the ILC world alongside APS-C) but with the Sony sensor Medium Format is right there at the cutting edge. The CCD sensors, while obviously not technically as advanced as the newer CMOS sensors, do offer something different and are still a great alternative for a lot of people. They are still being used to produce stunning imagery.
voidshatter
Member
If you are picky with color precision then yes the shift capability is very limited, but otherwise it's very usable for me (see my previous tests). The IQ250 + 23HR combo is my most used combo. I even shot a photography magazine cover with that combo when it was shifted 6mm (which was well enough to move the skyline to golden ratio position).
I belive the Canon 24mm TS-E II has very similar usable image circle as the Canon 17mm TS-E has, which indicates that if you mount it with something like an Alpa fps with a fullframe sensor like the IQ160 you would still get very limited room for shift. Gerald did a comparison between the 23HR and the 24mm TSE-II and the 23HR had sharper corners. When I tested the Canon 17mm TS-E on the IQ260, I never liked the lens as it had very limited room for shift, and the corners are very soft unless you stop the lens down to f16 which makes the whole picture prone to softness due to diffraction. Even if you surrender Rodenstock-level sharpness and opt for a 24mm TSE-II + IQ160 combo, I still doubt you could get a useful shift to move the skyline to the golden ratio position of the picture given that the official image circle is only 67mm. I did not pick the Alpa FPS route because the shift of the 17mm TS-E and 24mm TS-E relies on the front element of the lens (instead of the digital back), and the shift of longer Rodenstock lenses would still rely on another technical camera of the Alpa 12 series (e.g. STC, MAX etc), and many Rodenstock lenses will not be compatible with such FPS movement combo. It is also a lot heavier, much less practical for hiking.
Edit: I found a sample image with the 24mm TS-E II + IQ180 combo. The usable shift was only 3mm (with very soft corners), which is the same as the 17mm TS-E lens, far from enough to move the skyline to golden ratio position. Credit goes to chrismuc. I would say 3mm shift of fullframe is hardly anything close to 6mm shift of a smaller format.
Also, don't forget that due to the limitations of the Canon mount, when you shift a fullframe 645 sensor on a TS-E lens you also cripple the lower part (hard vignetting) of the image. This isn't a problem for stitching but could be a problem for single exposure. (and again, you get parallax errors when you stitch shifts by moving the front element of the TS-E lens)
What is your opinion with the Phase One P25+? It has 2x the size as the Canon 5DSR, but could you find evidence that when the Canon 5DSR is coupled with a decent enough lens (e.g. Sigma Art or Zeiss Otus) how does the P25+ win detail reproduction? (PS: I totally agree that new products will not stop older products from making stunning images.)
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bab
Active member
It would seem if live view is one of Hasselblad's greatest weaknesses that alone would be enough to replace the 50C and just to sweeten the pot add a 3-4mb screen, a little more ISO and a few tweaks to the body and you have a mid year model release before photokina!!!
Photokina announcement would likely include a 2017 new sensor release?....
Photokina announcement would likely include a 2017 new sensor release?....
ericborgstrom
Member
Encouraging to here that you find Live View to work well. Can you expand on how you use it?
When I use Live View the picture at 100% never gets sharp. And it is not only a rather underwelming screen that is at fault.
It gives me some help in focusing but not as much as I am used to form other cameras (Leica, Nikon)
/Eric
modator
Member
Hi Swissblad !Hi folks
I'm really enticed by the new rebate on the H5D-50c....... and would like to hear from any users ....
Thanks
S
What can I say, owning this camera since when it's appeared on the market curious about CCD / CMOS rendition / Film Look etc, after months of testing and use, I'm very satisfied on the result, the image quality at base ISO is the same if not better than my previous H4D-40 CCD, above ISO 200 the difference in image quality is massive, I have used it also at ISO 6400 with very good result much more better than any 35mm reflex...
To me, good points to go over the H5D-50c is the HC Lens family that's very complete, then the used market is full of good deals making possible to have a good kit of lenses with a fraction of the cost.
The last firmware release have strongly improved the reliability of this camera and then I never faced any error or lockups, the LCD display is not top notch like the latest 35mm DSLR but is large and improved in respect of the H4 serie, the live view of the H5D-50c / WiFi is working very well but to be sincere I often use it because the high quality and precision of the Viewfinder that's like to see from a balcony..
Talking of special functions that other's only dream on, there is the True Focus II thats very useful for portrait or in studio work also for fast product photo, the GIL (global Image Localizer) requires no iPad / Phone to capture the image with and for specific architecture / geological work is an advantage, finally the integrated color calibration flow permit to profile the sensor for very critic color specific work's (IE art reproduction) with high level result also without multishot, the HTS is another accessory that adds T/S to many of the lens (from 24mm to 100mm) permitting the use of the camera like a thecnical camera (with some restriction)...
I'm a H5D-50c user not a talker that have never touched it... I don't drive any Hasselblad or Phase or Nikon or Canon shop / business, But I admit I'm little biased about this camera that never left me unsatisfied ..
Conclusion:
If today I have to buy MF camera considering Lens family, Image Quality, Functions, and price... I buy the H5D-50c WiFi hand's down.
Domenico.