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Phase One IQ3 100mp. Shipping now. Full frame CMOS. HDMI.

Paul Spinnler

Well-known member
What is the upgrade price from a 1st gen 80mp class back (Aptus II 12 / IQ 180)?

-> I really hope that P1 uses the opportunity to provide fair upgrade paths!

PRICE, PRICE, PRICE!
 

Egor

Member
One sad thing is the timing for US based customers:

- We have just (Dec 31st) finished our tax year, and if we had been able to buy/put deposits down on this in 2015, could have deducted it from the last years taxes. That saving is now lost to the Feds forever.
1st of all, this is a big and welcome surprise! Congrats, PhaseOne!

Narikin, you are quite correct, but thats OK, I think most of us make those kinds of decisions by late August/September anyway. This year we just upgraded a lens and added a IQ140 kit but the majority of our tax write-offs went into lighting and non-camera gear. The decisions were made in late August based on sales.
This announcement gives great amount of time for bleeding edge evaluators to let us know all the cam's ins and outs. Also should mean better pricing on IQ150/250's toward August or earlier :)

Doug, congrats again! Always exciting stuff coming out with you guys.
Any word on white balance with the CMOS in Live View yet?
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
My Leica 007 manual says it is 16-bit color. What am I missing?
I asked Doug if the IQ3 100 REALLY has 16bit colour or is it the same as every other MFDB and has 14 or 15bits of real usable data packed into the standard 16bits.

If if the new back really does then it'll be a true upgrade.

If previous discussions of this topic are anything to go by this'll be an interesting and no doubt heated conversation. :watch:
 
Ken & Don's Anti Workshop 2016 will be very exciting this year!!!

Dave Gallagher, please put my name against IQ3 100mp tryout!

Subrata
 

torger

Active member
BSI is not all good, there are some challenges with it too related to manufacturing, electrical crosstalk, pixel non-uniformity etc. The A7r-II (BSI) seems to have (very) slightly worse DR than the older A7r. I think the main advantage of BSI so far is good high ISO, not better DR at base ISO.

I don't think this new sensor is a BSI sensor, but it's just a pure guess. We'll find out at some point. I don't think it's actual 15 stops either (DxOMark per pixel definition, but indeed downsampled 8MP definition they will probably do it), something also time will tell.

It's surely 100 MP and 645 fullframe and all the usual CMOS advantages though, and I think it's so revolutionary that I would not be surprised if the IQ3 is the last range with CCD sensors in them, because who's going to want to buy a new 80MP CCD now with this new king of the hill?
 
BSI is not all good, there are some challenges with it too related to manufacturing, electrical crosstalk, pixel non-uniformity etc. The A7r-II (BSI) seems to have (very) slightly worse DR than the older A7r. I think the main advantage of BSI so far is good high ISO, not better DR at base ISO.

I don't think this new sensor is a BSI sensor, but it's just a pure guess. We'll find out at some point. I don't think it's actual 15 stops either (DxOMark definition), something also time will tell.

It's surely 100 MP and 645 fullframe and all the usual CMOS advantages though, and I think it's so revolutionary that I would not be surprised if the IQ3 is the last range with CCD sensors in them, because who's going to want to buy a new 80MP CCD now with this new king of the hill?
Well if it's not BSI then it's probably not going to work well with tech wide angles. Alpa currently have only posted a sample with the 90 HR-SW, but not yet the 32 HR-W.
 

markymarkrb

New member
IMO, while this is welcome advancement, Phase One have put themselves into a corner for a competitor to emerge. Sony has Phase One by the boot straps with sensor development as they have demonstrated they will sell the same sensor to anyone (Pentax rocked the 50MP implement for a lot cheaper) and if their contract allows them to use the sensor and SONY releases a mirrorless MF camera with interchangeable lenses, it will be tough times for Phase One. I personally don't ever want to own a camera with an optical viewfinder ever again as I think there are some incredible tools gained by mirrorless for landscape work and I enjoy the smaller size for traveling. I really do think Sony could release an MF camera this year. Will it be as fine tuned as a Phase One probably not but it will probably be incredible for the price advantage. We all want incredible cameras with the best IQ but at $48K, there is an awful amount of room for Sony to step in and make a move. Even if they came out with an 80MP CMOS mirrorless MF camera and charged $24K, it will take a lot of business from Phase One. I am grateful I sold my IQ180 this last year and have been pleasantly surprised at how nice the photos from the A7RII with OTUS lenses are. Some disadvantages but the Sony is so much more capable in multiple circumstances. Still waiting for the day I get a digital 617 camera. Your thoughts?
 
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markymarkrb

New member
Very curious to see if Pentax introduces a 100MP camera with this sensor and if so, what the price point will be.
I think Pentax's latest 645 lenses do not cover Full Frame MF with the image circle so I don't know if Pentax would get it. That being said, I think Sony could go for it and reintroduce Zeiss MF lenses that we have missed so much from Contax.
 

Lobalobo

Member
The IQ3 100MP has a slightly greater pixel density than the 50MP version. There is a possibility that the 100MP is an enlarged version of the IMX251 (A7R-II), which suggests possibility of BSI design, which suggests possibility of compatibility with symmetric wide angles :)
This was my first thought as well (though I'm just a kibitzer here, still shooting 4x5 film). The only thing I'll add is that DPReview announced the new Phase One back with an express speculation that the press release's reference to "exceptional wide angle response" suggested a version of the Sony a7RII's sensor. But then the DPReview announcement was edited to delete that reference (or at least I can't find it again). Maybe DPReview learned this was wrong. Also, wouldn't Doug Peterson know the specs? He did mention that there would be tech camera tests, but don't think he addressed the BSI design question. So maybe not. But I may be way off.
 

JohnBrew

Active member
Good. Maybe the price of the used 60mp and 80mp backs will drop enough to put my ALPA TC into use.
 

Mgreer316

Member
I think Pentax's latest 645 lenses do not cover Full Frame MF with the image circle so I don't know if Pentax would get it. That being said, I think Sony could go for it and reintroduce Zeiss MF lenses that we have missed so much from Contax.
The more I think about it, the more I think it wouldn't make sense for Sony not to introduce a medium format system. It doesn't seem that Phase One would have enough volume on its own to sufficiently monetize Sony's investment. They already supply sensors to Nikon on one hand, then compete with them on another. I can easily see them doing the same with Phase One.
 

drevil

Well-known member
Staff member
i think if it would be BSI, they would have mentioned it big time in the announcement.

great system for sure, but since it no longer supports the contax 645(since iq3 introduction) i will be looking for an iq1(2)80 at some given point
 

tjv

Active member
Pretty safe to assume Hasselblad will follow with an announcement soon enough. Still, Leaf customers will wait for a firmware to use Credo backs on the XF...
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
The more I think about it, the more I think it wouldn't make sense for Sony not to introduce a medium format system. It doesn't seem that Phase One would have enough volume on its own to sufficiently monetize Sony's investment. They already supply sensors to Nikon on one hand, then compete with them on another. I can easily see them doing the same with Phase One.
I'm not so sure. Perhaps Sony might invest in a loss leading camera solution to elevate the brand but to be honest I don't think that they really need to given the success of their A7/A7xII series cameras. Better to leave it to Phase One, Hasselblad, Pentax to duke it out over what must be a miniscule market compared to Sony's mirrorless market. How would you justify the investment in lenses for this format for a start? A true medium format RX2 with a fixed lens, aka a modern day Mamiya 6/7/Fuji 680/690 with a single Zeiss lens option perhaps?

That said, it's not at all unknown for Sony to build those loss leader technology advancing solutions that make no sense economically. However, given their current money losing state would this be justifiable?

But hey, what do I know? If I knew these answers I wouldn't still be working for a living! :toocool:

Pretty safe to assume Hasselblad will follow with an announcement soon enough.
I'd buy a much cheaper Hasselblad 100mp back in a heartbeat given what I know about trade in options for my IQ150. If the 50c is anything to go by, the differential price would be more than enough to let me keep my current CMOS back (which is still AWESOME btw) and add the newer uber resolution back as well. I can live with a 50mp on a DSLR platform and 100mp on a technical / mini-view camera solution with the best glass on the planet.
 
I'd buy a much cheaper Hasselblad 100mp back in a heartbeat given what I know about trade in options for my IQ150. If the 50c is anything to go by, the differential price would be more than enough to let me keep my current CMOS back (which is still AWESOME btw) and add the newer uber resolution back as well. I can live with a 50mp on a DSLR platform and 100mp on a technical / mini-view camera solution with the best glass on the planet.
Do you think Hasselblad will improve the LCC functions (i.e. scene calibration) in Phocus well enough? If this 100 MP sensor is not BSI then...
 

JeRuFo

Active member
Waiting a bit for some test results and doing financial planning sounds like a good idea, but I was never a fan of speculating what manufacturers will do in the future. If you can make money with the camera now, you should buy it now. There has been talk of a P1 100MP back for a few years, that's a long wait if you have work to do. If you hardly make money with it but can afford it anyway it only matters which camera system you want.
Sure, Sony might step in, but don't have anything besides a sensor yet. And given the financial trouble surrounding the MF companies in recent years, I doubt if they want to invest in a lot of development. A fixed lens mirrorless might be on the cards, but the market for it is probably smaller than he MF market now. And since they already make money on every sensor, investing in development of a body in the style of the a7 doesn't make sense either.

This news might be best for the used back buyers, as a new king of the hill always brings quite a few of the last one to the market.
 
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