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Hasselblad H5D 50c WiFi vs. Phase One XF/IQ350

tjv

Active member
Thanks Domenico, that's really interesting although I admit to it being a little over my head.

I have actually tried a CFV-50c back on my Linhof Techno, and while the performance was excellent – although not quite versatile enough for my own needs in terms of freedom of movements before crosstalk etc set in – the live view at the time was very poor. The screen didn't refresh enough (i.e. read off the pixels quick enough) for me to have the back set to 100ISO and focus with the tech lens wide open at f5.6 in broad daylight. When doing this to find critical focus, the entire image blew out. I needed to stop down past f16 at least, or use a strong ND to control the light. Neither option was acceptable to me, and in the end I opted for a 60mpx full-frame back and just enjoy using / persevere with using the ground glass on my Techno. In another demo with the Credo 150, the live view worked very well at any setting. But the price was over double of what I eventually paid for my used Credo 60, which was also the same price of the CFV-50c new.

I state the above about live view because I wonder if it still applies today for this back, or if it also applies to the H5D-50c live view. Before I committed to buying my Credo 60, Hasselblad put me in touch with a very well knowen Hasselblad architectual photographer (who was very generous with his time to talk to me, half way around the world,) who was beta testing an updated firmware to enable faster live view to fix the performance issues I'd encountered. He said he'd been using it for some time with no issues encountered and that a firmware update release was imminent. That was a year ago now and I wonder if there have been any firmware updates in the meantime, either for the CFV or the H?

Still, all that said, if I were an SLR shooter mainly, I'd personally go for the H as I like the ergonomics and local Hasselblad dealer, and can't stand the local Phase / Leaf dealer "network" (I put this in quotes as I'm being sarcastic. Not every country is blessed with the good fortune of Capture Intergration like service and support.) This, plus the H is substantially cheaper here for what by popular account – going by this this and other user accounts I've read – is identical if not better aspects of performance that matter to me on some fronts.

I'm interested to hear what Hasselblad will release on the 7th. I am hoping to by an H kit for work this year, and I'd love it if they updated their 35mm lens like they did the 50mm II, and pushed the user interface to new heights – this is where I really love my Credo, as it's simply the easiest menu on a piece of gear I have ever used. It never gets in the way.
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
I'd suggest those who are concluding the Phase One file doesn't hold up at higher ISO take another look with a highly detailed subject and a large print. I think they've chosen an excellent balance of noise handling and detail retention, but of course I'm biased. I tend to push the noise reduction *lower* than default. It can look a bit rough on screen but in print the resulting grain is something I find very pleasant.
 
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Michael is an accomplished action/adventure photographer. However his review of the XF350 is inaccurate. I would suggest partnering up with a photographer who shoots with the XF system on a regular basis. Not sure how helpful to make assertions when you have limited experience with a camera system. I would gladly rent an IQ350 and meet Michael to do some photography. He could give me some pointers of the actual use of Hasselblad system. I have only shoot with the H1/H2 and not the latest models.

Upon a quick reading of Michael’s blog I noticed several statements which are not factual.

The article asserts that the Auto-focus on the XF is poor. This is not true.
The article makes some incorrect remarks about LS glass and flash syncing.
His opinions about the Reliability based upon “Almost everyone has to send in their XF for service” are disingenuous and could greatly benefit from fact checking.


AUTO FOCUS

I have shot over 10,000 frames with my XF and have a very high percentage of sharp images. Recently I shot three magazine covers for a national sports magazine. The photo editors were very happy with the take. No problems with focus on the XF.

This is how I do it.

In my long term experience in photography I have found that the majority of the time when a photographer has a lot of out of focus images it's due to operator issues and poor camera technique. Here’s just a few examples.


1. Out of focus VS camera shake/motion Blur. It's vital to remember when handholding any camera to use at twice the focus length of the lens as a shutter speed. This is especially true when shooting on a MFD camera.

2. Diopter adjustment. On the view finder of the XF is a Diopter adjustment. A) Focus on an object. B) While looking through the viewfinder - turn the dial until the image is crisp.

3. Holding the camera. The elbows should be in. One hand cups underneath the lens while the other hand holds the camera. When you place your (non-shutter) hand over the lens it's easy to actually push the lens down a bit while shooting causing a bit of motion blur.

4. Focus assist light. Go into the menu of the XF and you can adjust the brightness to help the camera/lens snap into focus.

5. Focus trim. Is not only for dialing in the sweet spot of a lens. The most important use of focus trimming is when your camera in lock into place and you chose not to focus and recompose. For example you a shooting a vertical magazine cover featuring three quarter photograph of a woman wearing a swimsuit. You can focus on her midriff area and simply apply a minus/negative amount of focus trim. This reduces the adjusts focus and brings the focus the eyes.

This also comes into play when you have a background that is extremely contrasty or backlighted and the auto focus has the tendency to back focus leaving the foreground subject blurry, simple dial in a positive amount of focus trim. It’s pretty straightforward to use.

SCHNEIDER KREUZNACH 35mm LS f/3.5

Yes it does sync at 1/1600 of a second. I own this lens. The strobe system I use is Profoto combined with the Profoto Air Sync remote.

I also shoot with an LS 28, LS 55, LS 110, LS150 and they all sync at 1/1600 of second with Profoto Air Sync remote on the Profoto packs.

The LS 40-80 Zoom syncs at about 1/800 to 1/1000 with Profoto air sync.


RELIABILITY

(In the blog it says everyone who has a Phase One system has to send it in for repair?)

This is not true.

I don’t climb mountains or jump out of planes. Just do advertising and editorial photography. My Phase digital back has about XX,XXX frames on it. I’m a bit shy to say how many…..it has never been to Denmark for service. My XF has as mentioned about 10,000 on the shutter. Never been in for service. My Phase One system lives in a Gura Gear backpack (the 34L) I wish I could say that I wrap my gear in bubble wrap, most readers of the forum would say Jeff please please put a little protection around your gear……

xf_frame_counter.jpg
 
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kdphotography

Well-known member
.... I wish I could say that I wrap my gear in bubble wrap, most readers of the forum would say Jeff please please put a little protection around your gear……
Actually, last time I saw you with the Phase XF with the IQ3 100MP at Capture Integration in Carmel, we were more worried about protecting you! ;)

Ok, so maybe Ziv was a little antsy about the proximity of the waves and the new IQ3 100....

kenDSCF5889.JPG
 

jerome_m

Member
I'd suggest those who are concluding the Phase One file doesn't hold up at higher ISO take another look with a highly detailed subject and a large print. I think they've chosen an excellent balance of noise handling and detail retention, but of course I'm biased. I tend to push the noise reduction *lower* than default. It can look a bit rough on screen but in print the resulting grain is something I find very pleasant.
It is a comparison review and, to my eyes, Phase One has color blotches (which I personally find ugly) while Hasselblad does not. That's all.

This being said, one would expect the noise reduction to be tweaked with every new version of Phocus or Capture One, so this is probably not a very bid deal.
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
It is a comparison review and, to my eyes, Phase One has color blotches (which I personally find ugly) while Hasselblad does not. That's all.

This being said, one would expect the noise reduction to be tweaked with every new version of Phocus or Capture One, so this is probably not a very bid deal.
Are we talking about the same comparison image?
http://www.michaelclarkphoto.com/files/ISO6400_H5D50c_vs_XFIQ350_fullres.jpg

Both cameras show significant wonka-wonka (low-frequency) color blotchiness in that side by side. If you don't see it right away (we all have different color perception) just bring the image in Photoshop and crank the saturation so you see the pattern; hard to unsee it after. You'd expect to see more in the Phase One file since it's of a red subject matter where only 1/4th of the pixels are getting strong light (red channel only) vs the neutral subject matter of the Hassy where all pixels are getting strong light.

Both images could probably be improved by increased color noise reduction in their respective software. Notably, in C1 you can do that on a local adjustment layer so it doesn't affect other areas of the image.

I would personally also turn down the luminance noise reduction on the P1 file; it looks to be at default, which is a perfectly defensible setting for a review, but not the setting I'd normally recommend our customers to use (if they, like me, don't fear grain, they fear ugly grain).
 
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jerome_m

Member
Yes we are.

Both cameras show significant wonka-wonka (low-frequency) color blotchiness in that side by side. If you don't see it right away (we all have different color perception) just bring the image in Photoshop and crank the saturation so you see the pattern; hard to unsee it after. You'd expect to see more in the Phase One file since it's of a red subject matter where only 1/4th of the pixels are getting strong light (red channel only) vs the neutral subject matter of the Hassy where all pixels are getting strong light.

Both images could probably be improved by increased color noise reduction in their respective software. Notably, in C1 you can do that on a local adjustment layer so it doesn't affect other areas of the image.

I would personally also turn down the luminance noise reduction on the P1 file; it looks to be at default, which is a perfectly defensible setting for a review, but not the setting I'd normally recommend our customers to use (if they, like me, don't fear grain, they fear ugly grain).
Doug, I appreciate your efforts as a salesman, but, frankly, let us just wait for a new version of Phocus and Capture One. I am pretty sure both Phase and Hasselblad can do better than that.
 
Actually, last time I saw you with the Phase XF with the IQ3 100MP at Capture Integration in Carmel, we were more worried about protecting you! ;)

Ok, so maybe Ziv was a little antsy about the proximity of the waves and the new IQ3 100....

kenView attachment 117692
This is photo belongs in the NSFW section of Getdpi! Anyway much thanks to your son, the water polo champion for keeping an eye on me.
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
Let us just wait for a new version of Phocus and Capture One. I am pretty sure both Phase and Hasselblad can do better than that.
I think that's fair. Just looking at an H25 file in Capture One 3,4,5,6,7,8, and 9 shows you what improvements in raw processing can have.
 

jlm

Workshop Member
Jeffery is shown flagrantly violating his third principle; a compelling reason to avoid MF users' advice. 😄
 

DanielDuarte

Active member
I've handled a friends XF, seems like a powerful tool. I own a 50c, it's a powerful tool.

That said, MF is a bit much for me and I'd move the camera and go back to 35mm. I was working on a project where I was regularly printing 40x60 inch prints. It helped a lot, but now I'm back to working in my normal print range and I feel like I'm wasting the potential of this tool.
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
In this thread and in the original article there was some confusion over sync speeds of the Schneider / Team Phase One LS lenses.

For absolute clarity:
- the 240LS syncs at 1/1,000
- ALL other Schneider LS lenses sync at 1/1,600

Your flash transmitter needs to be capable of communicating at 1/1600th if you want to go that fast.
- An example of a transmitter not capable of this is the standard PocketWizard which can only fully sync up to 1/500th.
- An example of a transmitter capable of this is a Profoto Air transmitter.

Notably a Profoto Air transmitter is built into the Phase One XF. That allows you to trigger (at up to 1/1600th) any Profoto Air light without any separate transmitters/receivers/cables/batteries or with any other kind of light (e.g. Broncolor) by attaching a Profoto Air receiver to it. You, of course, can also put any transmitter (e.g. a Broncolor RFS) you want on the XF.

We have the full Schneider LS lens specs on our website.
 

kdphotography

Well-known member
In this thread and in the original article there was some confusion over sync speeds of the Schneider / Team Phase One LS lenses.

For absolute clarity:
- the 240LS syncs at 1/1,000
- ALL other Schneider LS lenses sync at 1/1,600

....
Not interested in the 75-150LS, but I think this zoom is also limited to 1/1000th flash sync, but still no slouch.

I love the built-in Profoto Air on the XF! If using the Profoto transmitter (e.g., DF+ body), you need to set the Profoto Air to "fast" mode, which will eat batteries faster. No need to set fast mode on the XF! Just shoot!

ken
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
Not interested in the 75-150LS, but I think this zoom is also limited to 1/1000th flash sync, but still no slouch.
Ken, thanks for watching out for me! However, the information I posted is correct. The 240LS syncs at 1/1,000. EVERY other LS lens in the lineup (including the 75-150LS and 40-80LS) sync at 1/1,600th.
 

kdphotography

Well-known member
Ken, thanks for watching out for me! However, the information I posted is correct. The 240LS syncs at 1/1,000. EVERY other LS lens in the lineup (including the 75-150LS and 40-80LS) sync at 1/1,600th.
I think you better watch out for Phase One! :ROTFL: Their website has the 75-150LS listed with a 1/1000 flash sync. Still no slouch either way! I don't have the 75-150LS so can't test. No matter---it's not on my shopping list.

https://www.phaseone.com/en/Products/Camera-Systems/Lenses/Schneider-Kreuznach-75-150mm-LS.aspx

ken
 

stephengilbert

Active member
Ken,

Buy the lens or shut up. You know that GetDPI does not permit posts not basd on personal knowledge or experience.

Steve
 

kdphotography

Well-known member
Ken,

Buy the lens or shut up. You know that GetDPI does not permit posts not basd on personal knowledge or experience.

Steve
Damn, Steve. This Dante's Inferno crowd is tough. So I had the old 75-150, and I did shoot the new 75-150LS once at a CI in Carmel, but I guess that doesn't count. I'll have to call CI this afternoon....:ROTFL:
 
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