Transposure
New member
Dan,
Just a short interruption.....
Beautiful work on your website! Love the Beauty 1 Portfolio.
Ken
Just a short interruption.....
Beautiful work on your website! Love the Beauty 1 Portfolio.
Ken
The GetDPI Photography Forum
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MF direction
- Thread starter Lars
- Start date
modator
Member
Every one have it's opinion.
But this types of treads "MF-Look" "MF-Conundrum" "MF-Direction" "MF-Pizza" seems to have always the same leitmotif : "Over Exposing one opinion, trying to convince themselves they have choose the right direction"... In Photography ? :ROTFL:
Better to buy one system, then going with it to make Photos instead of words.
Then if it's MF go ask / talk / show the result in the MF forum, if is a compact camera go and discuss the issue on the compact camera forum...
That's my opinion.
Domenico.
But this types of treads "MF-Look" "MF-Conundrum" "MF-Direction" "MF-Pizza" seems to have always the same leitmotif : "Over Exposing one opinion, trying to convince themselves they have choose the right direction"... In Photography ? :ROTFL:
Better to buy one system, then going with it to make Photos instead of words.
Then if it's MF go ask / talk / show the result in the MF forum, if is a compact camera go and discuss the issue on the compact camera forum...
That's my opinion.
Domenico.
"The camera choice is also based on your work. As a commercial photographer, the MDF is a must. Agency know what camera we use!! They will question you when you use 35mm ( it happened a lot)"
Never happened to me, a 100mb tiff is more than enough for print (not printing, there is a difference!) as long as the art director likes what they see on screen it's good enough. Lenses make a huge difference, nobody want to see kit-zoom mush and chromatic abhorrations.
Never happened to me, a 100mb tiff is more than enough for print (not printing, there is a difference!) as long as the art director likes what they see on screen it's good enough. Lenses make a huge difference, nobody want to see kit-zoom mush and chromatic abhorrations.
GrahamWelland
Subscriber & Workshop Member
I think this probably accurately describes what really happened here.
There were a number of other people on this forum along with myself that were at this workshop testing out various gear and shooting under limited workshop conditions. Shooting with relatively sophisticated gear, that to be honest takes some getting used to in order to be proficient with it, under conditions where it is new, you are time constrained and it seems unfortunate that you weren't able to take advantage of the many many man years of experience from both CI staff there and the organizers/other attendees. You only had to ask as in my experience that group is very very happy to help or guide you if you had challenges with the usability or results in the field.
Personally I never get the best from shooting scenes under workshop conditions period. Maybe if the light is spectacular on that particular day but compared to shooting it alone or with perhaps just another shooting partner is the only way I can do it. Combine that with unfamiliar gear that has spooked you and I can see how you wouldn't be happy with the experience and build on top of that with not being able to get the best files from the platform and it'll all mount up.
It is tempting when given gear to try to assume that you can just pick it up and run with it alone. I know that I've done it and subsequently found out that perhaps I should have taken advantage of some guidance about where & how certain features work, plus the optimal set up for the system. I'm not sure why you weren't able to get the pdf manuals (they are on the C1 site and come on a USB key with the XF/IQ back) but CI folks should have helped you with that.
The IQ back lock up? I can see how that could spook you and erode confidence to the point where shooting is not enjoyable at all. Heck I've been on workshops where the bad experience of being rushed on a shoot or bundled into a steamed up minivan driven through beautiful scenery and not shooting it (my least favorite experience in Iceland - four of us quit and hired an SUV and followed after that), spoil the experience completely and you just don't enjoy shooting any more and guess what? Everything adds up so that little niggles irritate immensely, nothing goes right and the images just come back as crap.
My $0.02 - the problem here wasn't just the gear. Your experiences are what they were but the tools work just fine in other people's hands and with their experience. I can competently shoot 4x5 film but I have no doubt that if I picked up an unfamiliar 8x10 outfit to shoot that I wouldn't have a hard time shooting and loading film, messing up film flatness issues, worrying about the size of the outfit and bellows blowing in the wind and then forgetting to stop down the shutter before removing the dark slide (a mistake I wouldn't make otherwise) etc etc. Just saying ...
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Lars' experience at Carmel was a surprise to me as well. Probably one of the largest phase concentrations in one spot on the planet, everyone curious and helpful, tons of gear to use, fondle, years and years of experience of all sorts.
And plenty of communal discussion; I don't recall Lars bringing up any issues, and am mystified by his report
And plenty of communal discussion; I don't recall Lars bringing up any issues, and am mystified by his report
jerome_m
Member
Amusing example. I drive an old, tiny city car. It's not that I have no knowledge of more powerful cars, I have driven some on German motorways, but I still have my 20 years old small car. It suits my needs perfectly.
The difference? I don't go to car forums to explain to muscle car drivers that they should get something less expensive.
GrahamWelland
Subscriber & Workshop Member
:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
Dan Santoso
New member
Dan Santoso
New member
Well in my country it is expected. They will not talk infront of you but they will talk behind you. Some of them are not knowledgeable about technical stuff and will ask stupid questions like is it big enough for billboard, etc. Agency already have perception MDF is better so they expect that. All the big name in the industry also use MDF, to make it worse...
Hulyss Bowman
Active member
The competitive advantage is vanishing slowly with VR. Photography will have an advantage in Art and art only but on professional assignments you can start the countdown of the death of "commercial photography". I'm very serious as a coder I know what can be done with virtual reality and I'm able to lure everybody with proper VR and shaded work. Just wait the time phones and tablets will have more computing power, 5 to 8 years.Lars, I mean no disrespect but if your point was not to come across as a rant against MF then I feel you may have failed!
Look, there are tools for everyone, if there is really no competitive advantage then the businesses will go bust, it's as simple as that. Whilst there are people who want to buy their kit they will stay in business. There are so many types of photography and photographer that it is impossible to generalise, what is no advantage for you can be a huge advantage for someone else and rightly so!
I just received an email from a client who is very excited about his display stand and sent me a quick iphone snap, I hope people don't object to me sharing it..
I shot this with the IQ260 on a Cambo, there is absolutely nothing left wanting in this file, it has printed beautifully at 6m wide and more than that, the client loves it. Could it have been taken with another camera? Of course, anything from a box brownie to a Cap Cam depending on what I wanted from the final shot and the budget, as it is, the absolute best camera for the job was the camera I had, despite having no live view, no viewfinder even, no eye focusing af, I didn't even have a manual for the back, I just set aperture and shutter speed and took the shot.
My point is that whilst entirely valid in your limited time with the cameras on your 4 day trip, mf is capable of producing excellent work, as are pretty much all cameras if used to their strengths.
Mat
I think Lytro in on something. But even today you can make a rough scan of an environment and then compute it into a 3D world. It is an another job and need another skills yes. But this is where we are going, sooner or later.
Have a look at my "basic" virtual gallery: https://www.behance.net/gallery/32387485/CRYO
I say basic because I crafted basic shaders but advanced shaders are absolutely realistic. So much that it is almost impossible to differentiate real and virtual. I study this since 1999 and this is where we go.
And when I say Art only... damn I scare myself sometime into VR because I can output everything I want, every atmospheric effect, sun colour, mood ...
On such forum it is easy to mimic every kind of format and environment with VR, clouds, vegetation, seasons, rocks, water, sky... (I do not do it but it is possible).
I would go further saying that the day of photography devices are counted.
jerome_m
Member
Certainly, VR will be a revolution. But don't count photography dead yet. What the public want is to see people expressing emotions, feelings. VR cannot do that as well as real humans. Allow me to demonstrate with some random art:
Carol Jerrems - "Vale Street"
Sally Mann - "Candy Cigarette"
stephengilbert
Active member
Photography's days are certainly numbered.
Just as people painting or drawing disappeared once those obsolete practices were replaced by photography.
Just as people painting or drawing disappeared once those obsolete practices were replaced by photography.
Hulyss Bowman
Active member
Photography will not die any-time soon, for sure. But... emotions can be mimicked too, sorry. VR make everything possible. It sound like a blasphemy even into my ears because I'm portraitist but the future will be VR at ALL level (for a time). Then ppl will make a revolution and resurrect photo gear to make real photos after some years of deep depression 
All things related to visual commerce will be VR orientated. I even VRised myself and I'm coding facial emotions... (this is done since 2003).
and so on. Scary ? Hell yes. MFDB should be the least of your problems. You will disappear as fast as not converted film shooters.
Visual support for brands, individuals or industry is changing. The work about visual imagery is changing EXTREMELY fast. If you are young I can only council you to learn code, shaders and modelling. The last Lytro camera is kind of revolutionary, more than you can imagine. It is the first nail in the coffin. This camera (or maybe a tinier model in the future) is able to 3D scan and isolate every thing. Clients will like it. I can't explicate it here because it is very technical and long. Sad but factual.
Ho and printing days are counted too, probably more than photo gear days.
All things related to visual commerce will be VR orientated. I even VRised myself and I'm coding facial emotions... (this is done since 2003).
and so on. Scary ? Hell yes. MFDB should be the least of your problems. You will disappear as fast as not converted film shooters.
Visual support for brands, individuals or industry is changing. The work about visual imagery is changing EXTREMELY fast. If you are young I can only council you to learn code, shaders and modelling. The last Lytro camera is kind of revolutionary, more than you can imagine. It is the first nail in the coffin. This camera (or maybe a tinier model in the future) is able to 3D scan and isolate every thing. Clients will like it. I can't explicate it here because it is very technical and long. Sad but factual.
Ho and printing days are counted too, probably more than photo gear days.
jerome_m
Member
I know that (facial) emotions can be mimicked. The difficulty is to describe them and we are not there yet, VR or not.
That for sure.
There are still people shooting film and, as stephengilbert noted, people drawing and painting.
Don't assume me or other people in this thread cannot imagine things...
Hulyss Bowman
Active member
That is the point of VR
Not here for conflict, only to point something more important, a kind of danger somehow for commercial shooters out there. That's all.
jerome_m
Member
Indeed: between video and VR, the days of commercial photoshooters are numbered. We agree on that.That is the point of VR
Steve Hendrix
Well-known member
The days of everything are numbered.
True, some things sooner than later.
But commercial photography as we know it has changed and morphed always, and the future will be more dramatic and more rapid in that respect, that much is obvious, like so many other industries.
Commercial industries are more susceptible to those changes as other related segments drive the technology and production. Non-commercial 8x10 film shooters maybe not so much.
Steve Hendrix/CI
Dave Gallagher
Active member
Good morning everyone,
I would have responded earlier but my wife and I are on a much needed vacation celebrating our 10th anniversary this weekend. She tries to get me away once a year from the stress of owning a business, but alas, it keeps pulling you back in regardless of how you try to get away.
I am disturbed by this thread. And it’s not about the MF digital vs. DSLR commentary as those discussions have been going on for almost 20 years now. And I am certain that they will be going on for years and years to come. I am disturbed by how misleading and inaccurate the post is.
Since Mr. Vinberg felt the need to “share (his) experience and opinions based on those experience”, I feel that it is only fair that I am able to share mine as well.
* Regarding The Carmel “Anti-Workshop”
https://captureintegration.com/ken-dons-anti-workshop-2016/
Lets discuss the event. This is not a workshop, as the title perfectly states. Click on the link and read the description. This is a few days where good friends and clients get together to play with the latest photographic gear. We go to beautiful locations, share some drinks and food, share our experiences with one another, and just enjoy the time away from the stresses of our normal lives. The ridiculously small fee, $349, doesn’t even come close to covering the expenses of the event. It is just a placeholder to assure that the spots that are filled are not wasted by attendees not showing up.
The first day of the event is an equipment day. All of the equipment is set up in a location where attendees can come and play and learn about the gear. Tech cameras, MF bodies, and view cameras are on tripods waiting to be touched and tested. You can come learn how to use the gear and sign it out, at no cost to you besides the small attendance fee. This time is set aside to get familiar with the gear that you will shoot on location with very knowledgable people were ready to answer any questions that you may have.
During this day, and for the remainder of the trip, 4 Phase One Certified Technicians are there to answer any questions that you may have. Yes, 2 professionals from Phase One and 2 from Capture Integration are at your disposal for 4 days. Beyond this, the attendees and the hosts, Don Libby and Ken Doo, are some of the most gracious people that I have ever met in my life. The amount of “sharing” of both information and experience that goes on at these events is incredible. I will go beyond that and say that it is actually heart warming to see and it makes you want to come back year after year due to the giving and talented people that you meet for these 4 days.
* Regarding Digital Capture Equipment
I am a photographer. I have a BS degree in Imaging Technology from RIT. To pick up any camera that is new and start learning its nuances is not logical even to someone with a strong background. Buttons are in strange places. Menus have to be read and reread to understand them. Time needs to be spent understanding this new piece of electronic equipment…. even if you are a semi-intelligent individual. : )
If some of you didn’t know, I also distribute Leica and love the products. I always bring an M with me even when shooting medium format. I picked up our new Leica SL two months ago and did not like it. It was hard to get comfortable with the video feed focusing rather than my beloved rangefinder. The menus were longer and I got stuck on a few features that did not work “like I thought they should.”
Why am I stating this? Because I didn’t blame the camera. I didn’t go online to a public forum and call it names. I wasn’t condescending by making exaggerated misleading remarks implying that it couldn’t have been my fault and instead that ALL Leica’s must be “crap”. My reaction instead? Take it with me on my “vacation” and give it another try. And just spending 4 hours with it yesterday, I see all sorts of features that I now really like (along with a 90-280mm zoom that is pretty damn sweet). There are some amazing minds at Leica and I by no means think that they make inferior products because I didn’t feel comfortable with the product the first time I picked it up.
* Regarding Lars Vinberg
I was called out by name personally. My company, the treatment of my clients, and our ethics were disparaged. I apologize to anyone for the drama here. It’s not something that I like to be a part of whatsoever. However, it’s not fair to have the mud slung and not stand up for yourself. So here is my rebuttal
1) There was a day of training on the gear before the workshop started. There were incredibly talented people to help with any questions that he might have had. Computer workstations were set up so we could download documents and Capture One to jump drives and hand them out to anyone who needed them. Unfortunately, this great opportunity was missed.
2) Mr. Vinberg neglected to point out that he was using the Phase One on a Technical camera for the first time. Who would pick up an 8x10 view camera and think that they can learn it in an hour? Using a digital back on a view camera or tech camera is not like “spraying” with a Nikon. This is not recommend by us or anyone in the industry. With this said, Mr. Vinberg also neglected to point out that our technician, Cam Williams, helped him set up the tech camera system and was right by his side to answer any questions from the beginning. In fact, here is a picture of the first actual shooting location on the first day where Cam is setting the equipment up for Lars while Lars is NOT paying attention. Another opportunity missed and proof that his statements were misleading at best.
3) "Yeah CCDs do that sometimes when overloaded with light, just power it off for a few minutes.". This statement is false and outright nonsensical. But let’s chalk this one up to an English translation and someone not understanding what is being said. I want to believe this at least. Listening to the problems as stated by Mr. Vinberg, my analysis was that the Phase One IQ3 60mp was left in the direct sun and the back overheated. Leaving any black metal electronics in the direct sun to bake is a bad idea. Anyone lose an iPhone this way? My daughter did and she was not happy about it. : ) I can actually see where this can be misconstrued. But if you are confused, then don't post a direct quote that is not correct.
4) Laughing at a customer. My wife and my employees often ask me why I have so much patience when it comes to clients as compared to them. And admittedly, it’s not even close. I truly need to do better by both my wife and my employees, but I am working on it. I work very hard to have the utmost respect and patience for both potential and current clients. If I had known that Mr. Vinberg was so “sh#% scared” to talk to me that he was thinking about “quitting his job and moving to a foreign country” I would not have laughed at his stressful situation. Secondly, the reason why I laughed is that Lars thought he had damaged the camera by taking the protective rear cap off the sensor and exposing it to daylight. I found this funny and yes I laughed. I want to state that Lars laughed along with me at this moment and I didn’t see any sign of an issue. But importantly, I am not above reproach. I make mistakes. And if I would have known that this would have caused any form of distress then I would have quickly apologized. Furthermore, Mr. Vinberg and I have shared multiple e-mails since the event and this was never brought up. This makes no sense to me.
If I have done anything in any manner to upset someone, I implore them to speak to me directly so they can personally understand the man that I am and the company that I run. You will then have a strong perspective change at judging me and my character. However, not telling me personally how you feel when given multiple chances, then going online to a forum, and disparaging me publicly makes me question everything that you share about any subject and this post. Trust is lost.
Sorry, but this is me “sharing my experiences and opinions”.
Dave Gallagher
CEO
Capture Integration
I would have responded earlier but my wife and I are on a much needed vacation celebrating our 10th anniversary this weekend. She tries to get me away once a year from the stress of owning a business, but alas, it keeps pulling you back in regardless of how you try to get away.
I am disturbed by this thread. And it’s not about the MF digital vs. DSLR commentary as those discussions have been going on for almost 20 years now. And I am certain that they will be going on for years and years to come. I am disturbed by how misleading and inaccurate the post is.
Since Mr. Vinberg felt the need to “share (his) experience and opinions based on those experience”, I feel that it is only fair that I am able to share mine as well.
* Regarding The Carmel “Anti-Workshop”
https://captureintegration.com/ken-dons-anti-workshop-2016/
Lets discuss the event. This is not a workshop, as the title perfectly states. Click on the link and read the description. This is a few days where good friends and clients get together to play with the latest photographic gear. We go to beautiful locations, share some drinks and food, share our experiences with one another, and just enjoy the time away from the stresses of our normal lives. The ridiculously small fee, $349, doesn’t even come close to covering the expenses of the event. It is just a placeholder to assure that the spots that are filled are not wasted by attendees not showing up.
The first day of the event is an equipment day. All of the equipment is set up in a location where attendees can come and play and learn about the gear. Tech cameras, MF bodies, and view cameras are on tripods waiting to be touched and tested. You can come learn how to use the gear and sign it out, at no cost to you besides the small attendance fee. This time is set aside to get familiar with the gear that you will shoot on location with very knowledgable people were ready to answer any questions that you may have.
During this day, and for the remainder of the trip, 4 Phase One Certified Technicians are there to answer any questions that you may have. Yes, 2 professionals from Phase One and 2 from Capture Integration are at your disposal for 4 days. Beyond this, the attendees and the hosts, Don Libby and Ken Doo, are some of the most gracious people that I have ever met in my life. The amount of “sharing” of both information and experience that goes on at these events is incredible. I will go beyond that and say that it is actually heart warming to see and it makes you want to come back year after year due to the giving and talented people that you meet for these 4 days.
* Regarding Digital Capture Equipment
I am a photographer. I have a BS degree in Imaging Technology from RIT. To pick up any camera that is new and start learning its nuances is not logical even to someone with a strong background. Buttons are in strange places. Menus have to be read and reread to understand them. Time needs to be spent understanding this new piece of electronic equipment…. even if you are a semi-intelligent individual. : )
If some of you didn’t know, I also distribute Leica and love the products. I always bring an M with me even when shooting medium format. I picked up our new Leica SL two months ago and did not like it. It was hard to get comfortable with the video feed focusing rather than my beloved rangefinder. The menus were longer and I got stuck on a few features that did not work “like I thought they should.”
Why am I stating this? Because I didn’t blame the camera. I didn’t go online to a public forum and call it names. I wasn’t condescending by making exaggerated misleading remarks implying that it couldn’t have been my fault and instead that ALL Leica’s must be “crap”. My reaction instead? Take it with me on my “vacation” and give it another try. And just spending 4 hours with it yesterday, I see all sorts of features that I now really like (along with a 90-280mm zoom that is pretty damn sweet). There are some amazing minds at Leica and I by no means think that they make inferior products because I didn’t feel comfortable with the product the first time I picked it up.
* Regarding Lars Vinberg
I was called out by name personally. My company, the treatment of my clients, and our ethics were disparaged. I apologize to anyone for the drama here. It’s not something that I like to be a part of whatsoever. However, it’s not fair to have the mud slung and not stand up for yourself. So here is my rebuttal
1) There was a day of training on the gear before the workshop started. There were incredibly talented people to help with any questions that he might have had. Computer workstations were set up so we could download documents and Capture One to jump drives and hand them out to anyone who needed them. Unfortunately, this great opportunity was missed.
2) Mr. Vinberg neglected to point out that he was using the Phase One on a Technical camera for the first time. Who would pick up an 8x10 view camera and think that they can learn it in an hour? Using a digital back on a view camera or tech camera is not like “spraying” with a Nikon. This is not recommend by us or anyone in the industry. With this said, Mr. Vinberg also neglected to point out that our technician, Cam Williams, helped him set up the tech camera system and was right by his side to answer any questions from the beginning. In fact, here is a picture of the first actual shooting location on the first day where Cam is setting the equipment up for Lars while Lars is NOT paying attention. Another opportunity missed and proof that his statements were misleading at best.
3) "Yeah CCDs do that sometimes when overloaded with light, just power it off for a few minutes.". This statement is false and outright nonsensical. But let’s chalk this one up to an English translation and someone not understanding what is being said. I want to believe this at least. Listening to the problems as stated by Mr. Vinberg, my analysis was that the Phase One IQ3 60mp was left in the direct sun and the back overheated. Leaving any black metal electronics in the direct sun to bake is a bad idea. Anyone lose an iPhone this way? My daughter did and she was not happy about it. : ) I can actually see where this can be misconstrued. But if you are confused, then don't post a direct quote that is not correct.
4) Laughing at a customer. My wife and my employees often ask me why I have so much patience when it comes to clients as compared to them. And admittedly, it’s not even close. I truly need to do better by both my wife and my employees, but I am working on it.
I work very hard to have the utmost respect and patience for both potential and current clients. If I had known that Mr. Vinberg was so “sh#% scared” to talk to me that he was thinking about “quitting his job and moving to a foreign country” I would not have laughed at his stressful situation. Secondly, the reason why I laughed is that Lars thought he had damaged the camera by taking the protective rear cap off the sensor and exposing it to daylight. I found this funny and yes I laughed. I want to state that Lars laughed along with me at this moment and I didn’t see any sign of an issue. But importantly, I am not above reproach. I make mistakes. And if I would have known that this would have caused any form of distress then I would have quickly apologized. Furthermore, Mr. Vinberg and I have shared multiple e-mails since the event and this was never brought up. This makes no sense to me. If I have done anything in any manner to upset someone, I implore them to speak to me directly so they can personally understand the man that I am and the company that I run. You will then have a strong perspective change at judging me and my character. However, not telling me personally how you feel when given multiple chances, then going online to a forum, and disparaging me publicly makes me question everything that you share about any subject and this post. Trust is lost.
Sorry, but this is me “sharing my experiences and opinions”.
Dave Gallagher
CEO
Capture Integration