MF direction

[CSP]

The theme of this thread has been sad from the start for grown men, saying the files from the new 100mp phase are crap is obviously a load of bs, people need to be held accountable when bad naming a person and their business on the internet, sounds like OP has hurt feelings and needs to move on, I agree that this forum has changed but there are still many good threads with people who know their stuff, there are a heap of pros using phase ones in the field and all I've heard are great things and the prints look incredible that I've seen in galleries.

the sad thing is that some mf dealers use forums like this as extended storeroom for their business but its seems they can not handle negative comments in an appropriate way.

 

[Jeffery Salter]

the sad thing is that some mf dealers use forums like this as extended storeroom for their business but its seems they can not handle negative comments in an appropriate way.

How many dealers do you know would get on a plane with twenty digital backs and a ton of Alpa gear to let you play for four days in a beautiful scenic spot?

There is a photo of me online with my tripod and an IQ300 surrounded by a rising tide. Do you think that was my digital back?

When was the last time anyone from B&H has offered to do anything for you but offer free shipping?

Think about it.

In hindsight it's easy to offer conjecture about these things. If you weren't at the event. Then perhaps it's a bit difficult to see what exactly happened.

I mean this with all due respect to everyone.

 

[jerome_m]

This all thread is getting ridiculous beyond reason.

We have had a member posting, basically, that the MF back he tried in a workshop/photographers gathering was not very ergonomic to use and had bugs. So far, so good. MF backs on technical cams are indeed not that intuitive to use for everyone and MF backs are known to have bugs. It is a reasonable thing to complain about, even if it would be better for the forum if these regular complains were somewhat grouped together in their own thread.

Then we had the criticism of the reseller present in that photographers gathering. Personally, I could not care less: I have never used their services and am unlikely to ever need them, because I live in another continent. And, frankly, I do not see where the problem was: Lars was not satisfied by the service and said so in a reasonably polite manner. Dave answered in an equally reasoned and polite post. I would suggest we consider the case closed and move on.

 

[athimbleofdan]

Lots of good info here.

Out of curiosity...Lars, what are you expectations from these MFD cameras?

 

[Lars]

Out of curiosity...Lars, what are you expectations from these MFD cameras?

Good question.

Obviously the overwhelmed CCD was not in line with my expectations.
Neither was dealer's response that it was normal and user error.
This in turn illuminated the need for documentation, whereas I was told by dealer when I picked up the gear that there was no manual, and that I should ask questions instead.

I also expected raw files correctly exposed at base ISO from CCD to look far cleaner pre-denoise.

-Lars

 

[Lars]

The theme of this thread has been sad from the start for grown men, saying the files from the new 100mp phase are crap is obviously a load of bs, people need to be held accountable when bad naming a person and their business on the internet, sounds like OP has hurt feelings and needs to move on, I agree that this forum has changed but there are still many good threads with people who know their stuff, there are a heap of pros using phase ones in the field and all I've heard are great things and the prints look incredible that I've seen in galleries.

Correction of your post: I criticized the files from the 60MP CCD back, not the 100MP CMOS back.

 

[Lars]

That someone who handled a certain system for the first time feels entitled to draw bold conclusions about this system and to think about its position and future in the market is an embarrassment that can hardly be outdone and shows an all through amateurish attitude. What a pain to read through all this BS ...

Perhaps you should re-read what you wrote... You state that for me to even think about a product and its market is an embarrassment.

This is pretty much contrary to the openness that is behind this and all other public forums that are not censored.
If you want that heavy level of moderation then you need to find another forum.
I even asked the moderator to remove this thread, for the benefit of everyone involved. He declined. So uncensored it is.

 

[thomas]

This is pretty much contrary to the openness that is behind this and all other public forums that are not censored.

there are two sides to everything. The openness in forums like this allows knowledge exchange as well as nonsense exchange by every idiot.

 

[Lars]

there are two sides to everything. The openness in forums like this allows knowledge exchange as well as nonsense exchange by every idiot.

So... did your post contribute to knowledge exchange or did it fall into the other category you mention?

 

[stephengilbert]

I think there's a clear relationship between emotion (and name-calling), and the quality and usefulness of internet threads. The more of the former, the less of the latter.

Sometimes it's hard to let someone you think is insulting have the last word, but if you don't, these things go on forever.

 

[Landscapelover]

Correction of your post: I criticized the files from the 60MP CCD back, not the 100MP CMOS back.

I thought I would not give any more comment but I'd like to correct your massage.

You might be too upset to remember what you wrote.

"In fact, I would decline to use a P1 back even if it was free - it completely ruins my creative process, I would hate every second of the experience, and the upside in imaging results is debatable. Had I used my 8x10 at the Carmel workshop, I would have had a handful of truly amazing exposures, as opposed to dozens of crappy, noisy, bulky files. Sure, it would take a bit of time and effort in post including development and drum scanning, but there would be a real contribution to my portfolio, whereas what I got from the P1 backs (60 MP CCD and 100 MP CMOS) was frankly utter crap".

 

[f8orbust]

Getdpi is headed the way of lula and hopefully not those other sites like dpreview but the absence of the mods in the MF section is noticeable. I put it down to shift in focus of Guy, Bob & Jack from MF but the site is poorer for it. I actually pay a little to support this place but I'm starting to wonder why.

I wasn't aware that Guy, Jack and Bob had all moved out of MF. In a large part due to their enthusiasm, GetDPI had carved out a particular niche with medium format digital, so that news is a real shame.

MR over at LuLa was always a champion for MF (perhaps too much at times), but even that began to wane .. and now, under new management, MF seems to have taken a back seat too (even though Kevin Raber still dusts it off once in a while).

There seems to be an almost silent drift away from MFD in arenas such as this - I wonder what can be done to reverse the tide ?

Jim

 

[f8orbust]

...what I got from the P1 backs (60 MP CCD and 100 MP CMOS) was frankly utter crap...

Hmm, now let me think ...

 

[mjr]

Hej Lars!

There's always a positive to every seemingly terrible situation, now you can strike MFD from your list of options and concentrate on something else, and all it cost you was a few hundred bucks and a weekend with some decent people, maybe you should be thanking them for saving you from spending many thousands and then finding out it's crap!

All the best with what you end up using, as long as it gives you pleasure then that's all that matters.

Mat

 

[dchew]

Before this thread I was disappointed that I've never attended a Pigs. Now I'm down right pissed at myself.

Then it occurred to me that this thread is nothing but a marketing ploy by Dave, Lars, Ken and Don. In six months Lars will be posting another thread saying his new IQ3100 blows away his 8x10 captures. In exchange for these posts Dave is giving Lars a free back.

Well played guys, all the way down to the, "In fact, I would decline to use a P1 back even if it was free" comment. But I'm on to you all. I'm making my reservation the day next year's invitation goes live.

Gotta get up pret-ty early in the morning to fool me.
:salute:

Dave

 

[Don Libby]

I find this experience odd. Odd that in the 8-years Ken and I have hosted Pigs that this is the first to my knowledge where someone was so dissatisfied that he felt the need to publicly pronounce his displeasure. I also have never heard of someone contacting either Ken, Dave or myself personally to express displeasure.

Regarding deleting a post after it goes sideways – you (meaning anyone) who begins a conversation (any conversation) should be adult enough to withstand the ups and downs of the conversation. I’ve been following this particular conversation since it began and only this morning decided to comment on it. I’d recommend to anyone that before you post either a new conversation or part of one, think of what you’re doing. It’s easy to write things in a manner that one wouldn’t normally do if that person was face to face. I for one am pleased that Guy didn’t delete.

Clearly there isn’t going to be any clear winners in this conversation and we should just allow it to die.

Just my 2-cents worth

Don

 

[Lars]

I thought I would not give any more comment but I'd like to correct your massage.

You might be too upset to remember what you wrote.

"In fact, I would decline to use a P1 back even if it was free - it completely ruins my creative process, I would hate every second of the experience, and the upside in imaging results is debatable. Had I used my 8x10 at the Carmel workshop, I would have had a handful of truly amazing exposures, as opposed to dozens of crappy, noisy, bulky files. Sure, it would take a bit of time and effort in post including development and drum scanning, but there would be a real contribution to my portfolio, whereas what I got from the P1 backs (60 MP CCD and 100 MP CMOS) was frankly utter crap".

You're right - and this is a model example of how to hold a contributor accountable.
I was in my mind referring to the 60MP CCD back only. The 100MP CMOS back has a different file format so I have been yet been unable to evaluate the raw files.
I will correct my OP. (EDIT: the OP is no longer editable.)
My mistake,
-Lars

 

[kdphotography]

Before this thread I was disappointed that I've never attended a Pigs. Now I'm down right pissed at myself.

Then it occurred to me that this thread is nothing but a marketing ploy by Dave, Lars, Ken and Don. In six months Lars will be posting another thread saying his new IQ3100 blows away his 8x10 captures. In exchange for these posts Dave is giving Lars a free back.

Well played guys, all the way down to the, "In fact, I would decline to use a P1 back even if it was free" comment. But I'm on to you all. I"m making my reservation the day next year's invitation goes live.

Gotta get up pret-ty early in the morning to fool me.
:salute:

Dave

Actually, we did succeed in fooling you, Dave. It is a ploy alright, but it's actually all about distributing my world class BBQ baby back ribs smoked on the Traeger to combat Vegan superpowers and crimes against humanity. See, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFCAcQxmYDI We almost got Jeanine Henebry (vegetarian) to partake in the ribs, but she opted for a vegetarian sandwich, which I spiked with a slice of bacon. Of course, we document all incidents using medium format digital. :ROTFL: Next years CI/Pigs event goes on location (Don has the details already!). I probably won't take my Traeger on the road, but you can still count on some pretty good BBQ and great company. :thumbup:

See you next year! ken

 

[GrahamWelland]

Sometimes its hard to let someone you think is insulting have the last word, but if you don't, these things go on forever.

No they don't :ROTFL:
(sorry I couldn't resist)

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Just FYI lets keep it respectful of others and please no name calling. The GetDPI golden rule applies. Thanks