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Non-troll serious MF conundrum

satybhat

Member
Now perhaps, this actually being NOT a troll post, might not get the traction that some others recently have, but here goes, since I really need to ask the question.

I've spent the last 4 years working with the following:

-Leica S-006 + 30-90 + 100f2 + 30 non-cs. I'm OK with everything, save the 2x3 format. Most of my work is cropped to either 5x4 format or 1x1 square.
-Hassy V with film backs.
-Phase DF+ and IQ 280,
-Recently for 2 months on 2 jobs: Phase XF + IQ3100.
-A currently backless Alpa STC with 40HR.

The Leica S and Hassy V I own. All other gear was borrowed / limited use rentals etc.
I would like to have print sizes upto a metre on the short side.
I will be getting into Digital MF 'once and for all' by the end of this year.

My conundrum is this: Should I consider the H6D over the XF ? Hasselblad will give me a good rebate on my S-006.
Should I consider the Pentax 645z (weather-sealed and 4x3) and sell the S006 ?
Should I wait for the Pentax (next edition) since they have access to the sony sensor as well?

It is interesting to note that the Hasselblad marketing until now has been way way behind the phase marketing. They never even marketed their 'True-focus'. That's illogical !!
TBH, the excessive phase marketing is what has prompted me to ask this question in the first place.
Any input on Hasselblad dealerships in Australia?

Thanks for your inputs.

Saty
 

Christopher

Active member
Well here are a few thoughts

First of all it is a Photokina year. Even though the show isn't what is was ten years ago we will see lots of announcements running up to the show. I expect more from Sony, Leica, Pentax, Nikon, (Canon), Hasselblad and Phase One.

So my first question is how long can/do you want to wait till you make the steps.

Next important thing is what do you need. Just a SLR style body, the h6d is a great option and I would go with it over the XF.

If you want to use the back on a technical camera I would choose Phase One. In my opinion using a Hasselblad.

You are correct that waiting for the Pentax would probably save even more. Here the question is flexibility.

Have to run now. More later.
 

Nick-T

New member
Now perhaps, this actually being NOT a troll post, might not get the traction that some others recently have, but here goes, since I really need to ask the question.

I've spent the last 4 years working with the following:

-Leica S-006 + 30-90 + 100f2 + 30 non-cs. I'm OK with everything, save the 2x3 format. Most of my work is cropped to either 5x4 format or 1x1 square.
-Hassy V with film backs.
-Phase DF+ and IQ 280,
-Recently for 2 months on 2 jobs: Phase XF + IQ3100.
-A currently backless Alpa STC with 40HR.

The Leica S and Hassy V I own. All other gear was borrowed / limited use rentals etc.
I would like to have print sizes upto a metre on the short side.
I will be getting into Digital MF 'once and for all' by the end of this year.

My conundrum is this: Should I consider the H6D over the XF ? Hasselblad will give me a good rebate on my S-006.
Should I consider the Pentax 645z (weather-sealed and 4x3) and sell the S006 ?
Should I wait for the Pentax (next edition) since they have access to the sony sensor as well?

It is interesting to note that the Hasselblad marketing until now has been way way behind the phase marketing. They never even marketed their 'True-focus'. That's illogical !!
TBH, the excessive phase marketing is what has prompted me to ask this question in the first place.
Any input on Hasselblad dealerships in Australia?

Thanks for your inputs.

Saty
I'm a Hasselblad user and fan.
Phase make great gear and have done for a while. Hasselblad have been quiet for a while after (IMO) some very poorly executed partnerships with other companies.

The good news is that Hasselblad is back. They really are. Their new offering has (IMO) the edge on the competition (but don't think for a moment that Phase are sitting about doing nothing)

True focus is great and works.

The Pentax AFAIK is a good unit but doesn't really have the depth of lenses and accessories.

In Aussie you'll be dealing with CR Kennedy and specifically with Damon Rulach. Damon is an excellent resource, tell him I sent you.
Feel free to contact me direct with any questions and I'm sure others will chime in.

Nick-T
 
Last edited:

ErikKaffehr

Well-known member
Hi,

What are your needs? Does the Pentax 645Z offer any significant advantage over the Leica S (006) for your needs?

You could consider the Hasselblad VFC backs, it may even be a 100 MP VFC around the corner. That would be fine with your Hasselblad and the Alpa. Or you could consider an older P-series back. That would not work if you need AF.

Do you have lenses for the Leica?

CMOS backs have:

  • Better high ISO
  • Less readout noise (cleaner shadows)
  • Live view
  • Less issues with colour aliasing

But at least some (IQ-260) CCD backs may work better with near symmetrical wide angles.

Best regards
Erik



Now perhaps, this actually being NOT a troll post, might not get the traction that some others recently have, but here goes, since I really need to ask the question.

I've spent the last 4 years working with the following:

-Leica S-006 + 30-90 + 100f2 + 30 non-cs. I'm OK with everything, save the 2x3 format. Most of my work is cropped to either 5x4 format or 1x1 square.
-Hassy V with film backs.
-Phase DF+ and IQ 280,
-Recently for 2 months on 2 jobs: Phase XF + IQ3100.
-A currently backless Alpa STC with 40HR.

The Leica S and Hassy V I own. All other gear was borrowed / limited use rentals etc.
I would like to have print sizes upto a metre on the short side.
I will be getting into Digital MF 'once and for all' by the end of this year.

My conundrum is this: Should I consider the H6D over the XF ? Hasselblad will give me a good rebate on my S-006.
Should I consider the Pentax 645z (weather-sealed and 4x3) and sell the S006 ?
Should I wait for the Pentax (next edition) since they have access to the sony sensor as well?

It is interesting to note that the Hasselblad marketing until now has been way way behind the phase marketing. They never even marketed their 'True-focus'. That's illogical !!
TBH, the excessive phase marketing is what has prompted me to ask this question in the first place.
Any input on Hasselblad dealerships in Australia?

Thanks for your inputs.

Saty
 

jerome_m

Member
Leica S-006 + 30-90 + 100f2 + 30 non-cs.
In Hasselblad, the equivalent would be H6D-50c, 35-90, 100f/2.2 and 28. You'll lose a bit on aperture and on wide-angle on the zoom.

Whatever you do, make sure you get to take these cameras in your hands as their weight, balance and ergonomics are surprisingly different (H, Pentax, Phase).
 

Dogs857

New member
Just a thought mate but why not keep the 006 :confused:, you already own it after all.

Is there something that it is not doing for you?? Printing 1m on the short edge from that camera should be fairly easy. Ask Mat (mjr) he used one for years and took some cracking photos with it. I understand if you are always cropping it can be a bit of a pain, but on the plus side should you want to take a one shot panorama then the 2:3 format is a lot better than 3:4.

Another cheaper way in would be a Pentax 645, D or Z. AFAIK the D has a similar sensor to the 006 so if you like that camera you may like a 645D and they are pretty cheap for low shutter second hand units. You could pick up a couple and be on your way.

I know I have owned a lot of gear in the past, and the only things that I regret having to sell was my Phase One gear.
 

AreBee

Member
Christopher,

If you want to use the back on a technical camera I would choose Phase One. In my opinion using a Hasselblad.

Have to run now. More later.
In your opinion, using a Hasselblad... what?
 
M

mjr

Guest
What subjects are you shooting Saty? Commercial or for pleasure?

To be honest, you have shot with some really fantastic kit and you're probably in a better position to offer advice than most! If you have a really clear idea of what you want to shoot and what the output will be then the options will naturally present themselves I would think.

I decided ages ago that if I need something to work with then I would look at what I could shoot with now and go with what suited best, what might be around the corner is of no interest to me if I need to be working now. That said, with the Hasselblad not far off being in the shops then you're in a great position to try it and compare against your XF experiences.

Bottom line is what are you missing from what you already own? What has renting kit told you about what's available now? And just as important, what do you want to shoot with?! If I was asking the same questions as you, I'd have the S 006 kit for portrait work, love it! Keep my IQ260 and Cambo just for architecture projects as it's brilliant and buy a D500 for the odd event/low light jobs, that would do everything! I have sold hundreds of prints from the S at decent sizes and have a number of 60x120cm cropped panos on my walls from single files and they look really nice, I wouldn't be worried about the S files keeping up. Have you tried the 007?

Looking forward to hearing what you go with.

Mat
 

Paul2660

Well-known member
Saty:

I am confused, in your list, you have IQ3100 and XF listed, would you want 2 100MP backs, both Hasselblad and Phase?

Just curious as both will require different raw converters, C1 and Phocus and neither works with the others files, thus 2 totally different workflows. I guess you can use LR for both.

Paul C
 
M

mjr

Guest
I think he rented the XF and 3100 Paul, he's now thinking of buying a kit for himself rather than renting, hence wondering if the 'blad might be better, I don't think anyone has actually shot a production H6D100 yet though.

Mat
 

Paul2660

Well-known member
Hi Mat,

Thanks, I was wondering. One other thought, unless Hasselblad has stocked up chips, the wait on their 100MP will not be a short one.

Back to the question, it will be a tough call for sure as both platforms have a great solution now. For me with a lot of P1/Mamiya glass, the choice was easy to stay in the P1 lineup. The XF has delivered for me.

Paul C
 

tjv

Active member
I'd keep the S006, buy the Hasselblad H6D-50c and some H lenses, the H lens adaptor for Leica S so you can mix and match lenses with your S, and get shooting...

Best of all worlds there if you ask me
 
M

mjr

Guest
If I was spending Saty's money and I was going to do as tjv suggests and mix the S with a Hasselblad then for me it wouldn't be the 50c, it's another crop sensor and the S lenses are so good, I would have to have the 100c to give some value to the blad over the S. Just my opinion and Saty's money! Haha!

I don't know what Saty's priorities are, for me, the only reason to add a XF or H6 to the S would be to have the option of a tech cam for architecture or landscapes, the Phase would win for me in that situation.

Mat
 

Jamgolf

Member
Hi Saty

If I was in your situation, I would not consider making the change for a 44x33 sensor because the S is so close to that level any way.
That would leave H6D-100c and IQ3100 as my options.

I don't know about you but the price difference between H-100c and IQ3100 is significant enough for me to go toward H-100c.
Factor in the trade-in value for your S and I think the argument is even more compelling (excuse me for using this c word).

Other benefits of H6D over XF:
- Ability to use film back. So you would not need to keep your V system.
- Ability to use polaroid back. OK - that is a bit of a stretch, but its a possibility.
- True Focus.

I am sure XF has some features e.g. Focus Stacking tool, that H does not offer, but then the price premium is also significant.

Go 100MP and be content for some period of time.

Have fun deciding :)
Cheers!
 

kdphotography

Well-known member
If mere mortals read your post, they would literally just :loco:

This could only happen in Dante's Inferno. You've got a pretty nice list of camera systems. :thumbup:

Take two steps back----if all the camera systems can produce what your work/needs require, I'd simply choose the system that gives you the most photographic enjoyment and giggles.


ken

p.s. Be careful, that could also mean acquiring 3 out of four systems....:ROTFL:
 

ondebanks

Member
Hi Saty

If I was in your situation, I would not consider making the change for a 44x33 sensor because the S is so close to that level any way.
That would leave H6D-100c and IQ3100 as my options.
I'd agree with this.

Other benefits of H6D over XF:
- Ability to use film back. So you would not need to keep your V system.
- Ability to use polaroid back. OK - that is a bit of a stretch, but its a possibility.
It was such a huge and unnecessary mistake by Phase to disable film back support from the DF onwards. I will never comprehend that move. All that was ever needed to operate the AF film backs is a signal across the contact pins - the same pins shared for use for the digital backs. So why stop providing that signal?

I am sure XF has some features e.g. Focus Stacking tool, that H does not offer, but then the price premium is also significant.
I think the #1 feature of the XF (and Mamiya/Phase bodies in general), vs. the H line, is the focal plane shutter. You can stick any optic with > 63mm flange distance on the front. But it sounds like satybhat is happy with the existing lens choices of the S and H.

Go 100MP and be content for some period of time.
With 100MP 645 CMOS, I'd be contented forever. :D

Ray
 

jerome_m

Member
Maybe I should explain a bit more.

The o.p. uses a Leica S-006 and the 30-90 + 100f2 + 30 non-cs lenses. He also wants to print quite big, but not huge.

Leica S lenses are amongst the finest money can buy. They are also fast for MF lenses.

The zoom and 30mm will be difficult to replace. Pentax has a 28-45mm, bit it is wide-angle only. There is no equivalent of the 30mm in Pentax land, the 28mm was discontinued.

In Phase/Mamiya land, the zoom is a 40-80mm, a noticeably smaller range. The 35mm is supposed to be excellent, but the 28mm has poor reputation.

Hasselblad has a 30-90, so something comparable but it will only cover the x1.1 sensor. Further, the equivalent of the Leica 30mm in Hasselblad would be:
-the 35mm on a full size sensor (100mpix) or
-the 28mm on a small size sensor (50 mpix).

I don't think the H 35mm will compare favourably to the Leica 30mm. The lens is better than its reputation, but needs to be stopped down quite a bit to be sharp all over. Conversely, the 28mm is excellent, but will not cover a full size sensor.

Therefore, considering what is available, the equivalent of the Leica S-006 + 30-90 + 100f2 + 30 non-cs is going to be a H6D-50c, 30-90, 100f/2.2 and 28mm, if one wants to buy new.

If one wants to buy second hand, other choices would be possible, of course.
 
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