Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
Might be a perfect purchase for Leica and i would not be surprised for one second if they went for it
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That would be great, but doubtful. The history of Leica is in their own engineered systems and products, practically to a fault. The F&H system is built around a whole other product base, their own manufacturing, and of course, outsourced lenses of some major complexity.
Apart from some likely engineering rivalry, the manufacturing could possibly overlap. It would be nice to see this all under one roof - gee, for a moment, I'm dreaming of a Hy6/S2 overlap... but then again, hard to see. Oh well....
Apart from some likely engineering rivalry, the manufacturing could possibly overlap. It would be nice to see this all under one roof - gee, for a moment, I'm dreaming of a Hy6/S2 overlap... but then again, hard to see. Oh well....
As I think that both, Leica and F&H have some idealism and maybe some "german overengineering" in their products (which I really like) I would think it would be better for each of them to partner with a company working more "grounded", offering some less sophisticated but higher volume products to make money.
So they could keep and develop their prestige products but still would not need to economicly depend on them - because they might have some cash cows in the area of a little less sophisticated cameras and systems.
anyways, I guess its not my business.
So they could keep and develop their prestige products but still would not need to economicly depend on them - because they might have some cash cows in the area of a little less sophisticated cameras and systems.
anyways, I guess its not my business.
Ben Rubinstein
Active member
Given that PMA has just started I'm just glad I'm not on a Sinar or Leaf stall with a nice shiny and now horribly embarassing Hy6 in my hands...
Stuart Richardson
Active member
Well, I don't know why the Hy6 has suddenly become embarrassing....dead maybe, but embarrassing? It's still one of the most advanced medium format digital platforms you can get, and I would bet that there are more than enough already made to cover demand for the next AFi and Sinar digital back releases...at least for a little while. The lens manufacturers (Zeiss and Schneider) are not out of business, so at least that is a bright spot...I don't think we will see that 6x6 film back though, which is unfortunate.
And as others have said, it seems fairly likely that either Sinar (Jenoptik) or Leaf (Kodak) will try to pick up the slack and buy up at least the Hy6 manufacturing part of F&H. They will likely cut loose part that was still making TLR's, Xact2 and any earlier 6000 series items....just keep on the production line doing the Hy6. It can't be that many people.
And as others have said, it seems fairly likely that either Sinar (Jenoptik) or Leaf (Kodak) will try to pick up the slack and buy up at least the Hy6 manufacturing part of F&H. They will likely cut loose part that was still making TLR's, Xact2 and any earlier 6000 series items....just keep on the production line doing the Hy6. It can't be that many people.
Graham Mitchell
New member
I agree. However Jenoptik already owns the Hy6 so technically they can go to any workshop to continue productin, afaik.
Still, this is very troubling news...
besides the hy6 I think the potential for the lenses on other platforms is great.. and is being used on alpa and different viewcameras via the rollei lens control and 6000 lens adapter.. I would like to see someone update this into a modern small viewcamera system to replace the limited xact2 which I use. . I do hope sinar/jenoptik or leaf/kodak would do the deed to keep it all going.. and forward... or a dr.kaufman/leica type guy with very deep pockets.
David Klepacki
New member
Paul, Linhof has already done this with their new Techno view camera, fully supporting the Rollei 6000 lenses:
http://www.linhof.de/news-1_e.html
yes I know, that was my point, other manufacturers have been using the hy6 lens system..
but I was hoping for a full view camera replacement..but the 679 is a great little field camera..
ptomsu
Workshop Member
Franke & Heidecke (Rollei/Hy6) insolvent
This seems to be the end of one competitor in the digital MF market
http://www.bjp-online.com/public/showPage.html?page=845439
This seems to be the end of one competitor in the digital MF market
http://www.bjp-online.com/public/showPage.html?page=845439
carstenw
Active member
Re: Franke & Heidecke (Rollei/Hy6) insolvent
There are already long threads on this on the various forums. I don't know why it took BJP so long to translate it. Ultimately, insolvency is not the end, just a signal of trouble. Jenoptik owns all the rights to the Hy6, and Leaf has already announced to dealers that they will start manufacturing the Hy6 (probably only if it becomes necessary). Jenoptik is apparently sufficiently happy with sales that a solution is currently being sought for Franke & Heidecke. There is not much more to say here. Time will show what solution they come up with. Manufacturing continues...
There are already long threads on this on the various forums. I don't know why it took BJP so long to translate it. Ultimately, insolvency is not the end, just a signal of trouble. Jenoptik owns all the rights to the Hy6, and Leaf has already announced to dealers that they will start manufacturing the Hy6 (probably only if it becomes necessary). Jenoptik is apparently sufficiently happy with sales that a solution is currently being sought for Franke & Heidecke. There is not much more to say here. Time will show what solution they come up with. Manufacturing continues...
Graham Mitchell
New member
In case it hasn't been mentioned until now, EPd on LL has always delivered scoops on F&H news and has ties to the company.
He wrote: "I have checked with my F&H contacts and past week they have been in full swing, while upcoming week looks normal too. The consultant who is to decide about the legal allowing of the insolvency was going through the books and buildings during last week. It may even happen that the insolvency may not be granted, but if it is it will most likely mean a (temporarily) escape from debitors. Insolvency is supposed to help companies find a way out in difficult situations during difficult times. It is by no means bankruptcy."
He wrote: "I have checked with my F&H contacts and past week they have been in full swing, while upcoming week looks normal too. The consultant who is to decide about the legal allowing of the insolvency was going through the books and buildings during last week. It may even happen that the insolvency may not be granted, but if it is it will most likely mean a (temporarily) escape from debitors. Insolvency is supposed to help companies find a way out in difficult situations during difficult times. It is by no means bankruptcy."
yaya
Active member
Re: Franke & Heidecke (Rollei/Hy6) insolvent
They've only contacted me after going to press so the update only goes into the on-line version next week
Yair
BJP have now updated their page
They've only contacted me after going to press so the update only goes into the on-line version next week
Yair
Last edited:
PeterA
Well-known member
Yair thanks for posting this link.
Sadly, this merely underlines the fact that making a new camera is not a trivial matter.
I am sure best intentions on the part of Jenoptic in using F&H as the manufacturer never envisioned what looks like failure in the overall F&H business management.
Too many years focusing on digital backs and ignoring what they 'hang off' sees the industry dynamics moving back towards a more balanced status where respect for lenses and bodies in the total strategic picture is underlined in bold.
I am hoping this does not lead to a permanent diminution of back choice. However, in a small industry - it isnt usually natural to see too many competitors as the industry matures - the pressure on consolidation increases. The truly intergrated company usually wins in these niche markets.
The elephant that Phase One has to concern itself with is not the spoof posted in another thread.
If I were Hasselblad I would now go much harder in price reductions - shutting out a still born S2 as well as continuing to increase market share against Phase et al - when people are concerned with the viability of the Hy6/Afi platform.
The sooner production issues can achieve a definitive long term solution the better - time is quickly running out.
I am sure you guys knwo all this anyway.
All the best
Pete
Sadly, this merely underlines the fact that making a new camera is not a trivial matter.
I am sure best intentions on the part of Jenoptic in using F&H as the manufacturer never envisioned what looks like failure in the overall F&H business management.
Too many years focusing on digital backs and ignoring what they 'hang off' sees the industry dynamics moving back towards a more balanced status where respect for lenses and bodies in the total strategic picture is underlined in bold.
I am hoping this does not lead to a permanent diminution of back choice. However, in a small industry - it isnt usually natural to see too many competitors as the industry matures - the pressure on consolidation increases. The truly intergrated company usually wins in these niche markets.
The elephant that Phase One has to concern itself with is not the spoof posted in another thread.
If I were Hasselblad I would now go much harder in price reductions - shutting out a still born S2 as well as continuing to increase market share against Phase et al - when people are concerned with the viability of the Hy6/Afi platform.
The sooner production issues can achieve a definitive long term solution the better - time is quickly running out.
I am sure you guys knwo all this anyway.
All the best
Pete
PeterA
"If I were Hasselblad I would now go much harder in price reductions - shutting out a still born S2 as well as continuing to increase market share against Phase et al - when people are concerned with the viability of the Hy6/Afi platform."
It will be interesting to see just how ruthless the Swedes/Danes are willing to get.. Some of that Viking heritage may creep out ;>
"If I were Hasselblad I would now go much harder in price reductions - shutting out a still born S2 as well as continuing to increase market share against Phase et al - when people are concerned with the viability of the Hy6/Afi platform."
It will be interesting to see just how ruthless the Swedes/Danes are willing to get.. Some of that Viking heritage may creep out ;>
Graham Mitchell
New member
I found a good article on German insolvency procedure here:
http://www.burkardlaw.com/newinsolvencylaw/
It should help clarify what is actually going on.
http://www.burkardlaw.com/newinsolvencylaw/
It should help clarify what is actually going on.
I just got back into meduim format the much loved contax. If money was no object I would've been a hy 6 . Such a nice camera but lenses were very expensive even the manual older pq non autofocus were more expensive then used contax lenses. Do not get me wrong the contax is a nice camera. The Leica S2 is nice thought but digital oly I want the option of film black and white that is and right now the leica will be too much money.
M
msglueck
Guest
there is some information about the Hy6 and Sinar on a German photo news site.
Sinar claims they have the knowlegde and tools to continue building the Hy6 at a Sinar site...
http://www.photoscala.de/Artikel/Keine-Information-über-Franke-Heidecke
Best regards,
Markus
Sinar claims they have the knowlegde and tools to continue building the Hy6 at a Sinar site...
http://www.photoscala.de/Artikel/Keine-Information-über-Franke-Heidecke
Best regards,
Markus