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Thread: Hasselblad X1D

  1. #701
    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by CSP View Post
    but it will be fun to see how much this "unbiased expert" can bend for his new master considering some statements he made about the sony performance
    What MT said about the Sony A7R series he justified. Hopefully he'll do the same about the negatives of the X1D as he finds them.

    I love the performance of my A7RII but I also agree that the UI seriously sucks.
    Ylem ...
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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by DougDolde View Post
    The X1D is a mix of 2 world : MF quality and portability
    I'd like to see 2 kind of photos , portrait / fashion (let's say wide open) and street photography with difficult lights

    thanks for the link
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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    A few random thoughts both serious and frivolous, regarding this new camera and some of the responses on this thread … most of which comes from my having been a long time Hasselblad user, and my experiences with Hasselblad over decades of involvement. I say this only because many here have questions that probably stem from limited or no use of Hasselblad H products.

    I can see a scenario that goes something like this, especially after their misguided missteps in the recent past:

    Hasselblad's new boss: "Gee guys, can't we do something fashionista? Maybe a fancy new shoulder bag, or what about using a good looking spokesperson from the ephemeral fashion end of things since we have always done well with fashion shooters?" Engineers and designers: "Sure boss, as long as you don't fuk with our camera."

    So, no final dusting the body with Peacock feathers, and no Narwhale grip


    Traditionally, Hasselblad has been innovative and fast to announce those innovations, then frustratingly slow to implement. Despite being a AAA type personality, over the years I found this to be a preferable since when it was finally ready, it was usually worth the wait and worked better than expected. Before critics pounce, there are exceptions to anything, and some have had horrible experiences just like with any make system.

    Over a decade, from the H2D-22 to a H4D/60 and 8 different HCD/HC lenses, I never had to become back slapping, cigar smoking, whiskey drinking good friends with Hasselblad reps or service people because I rarely needed them. I had one lens failure … a HC100/2.2 that I bought with my first H camera and used almost daily for over a decade. The AF motor got slowish/noisy and they replaced it quickly and inexpensively. I never had to check each lens when I bought it, never had to examine each one for sample variation. Never had to send a new lens back.

    Subjectively, I've always liked Hasselblad's "True Color" solution … and even Ming's initial and hurried samples show a similar organic look and feel with natural looking color rendition. While many companies may use this sensor, it is up to each of us to evaluate which "secret sauce" implementation of that sensor we prefer. IMO, Ming's pics bode well for the final iteration of the X1D camera, because in the end the only reason to get this camera is IQ you "subjectively" prefer … in a much easier to carry form.

    While I've not had the pleasure of holding this new camera, I have faith that the UI and ergonomics will be splendid. The H has always been a well respected MFD body, so there is no reason to suspect they will dump all that intelligent industrial design experience with this camera. In a very short time, I came to "play the H like a musical instrument" and never had to dumpster dive into a complex menu designed by a dyslexic gamer.

    Some details of this camera will mean more to some than to others.

    For me dual cards is one such feature, particularly if the cards are SDs. Anyone that shoots stuff that a client could sue you for not delivering understands why

    That Hasselblad chose to use Nikon flash protocols is genius. Wish Leica had done the same with the S. Lighting innovations that first hit the market are always Canon and Nikon. My S probably will never be compatible with Profoto's TTL and HSS features on my B1 and B2 lights, the X1D looks like it will be compatible out of the box (TBD for sure).

    Auto Focus: for me the priority is accuracy. Yes, it has to reasonably fast with-in reasonable expectations of a larger sensor camera. However, accuracy is a direct component of IQ … which, again, is the reason to have such a camera.

    After semi-retiring, but still shooting for money and barter, I left Hasselblad for lack of pressing need for such a big gun (H4D/60), and more consideration for ease of transport as I age. This camera makes me reconsider that move.

    - Marc
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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    because in the end the only reason to get this camera is IQ you "subjectively" prefer
    No not exactly or not only, if it is a camera to shoot in studio portrait or fashion there is no needs for portability, the target of this camera seems to be the quality of MF for another kind of photos , street , events , weddings, traveling ...
    Leica M

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by CSP View Post
    but it will be fun to see how much this "unbiased expert" can bend for his new master considering some statements he made about the sony performance
    That's easy, just read that article in the link and find out for yourself. The title already said it is "Very early shooting impressions ....". Knowing him, there will be a bit of write up to come, judging from the comments there.

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by CSP View Post
    but it will be fun to see how much this "unbiased expert" can bend for his new master considering some statements he made about the sony performance

    With respect to Ming Thein, I always have a problem when somebody is paid by a company to review their product. There is an inherent bias that is inevitable. Sadly, there are very few reviewers that are free of the yoke of sponsorship. Amazon now has an army of such reviewers who profess impartiality with the disclaimer 'I was provided with a free sample for an unbiased review'. No way such reviews are totally independent of the influence of the manufacturer. You know that to be the case because NONE of these actually trash the product. A well known pro photographer told me that if he is given a product to review and he does not like it, he writes to the company and they never publish his review, which means that the ONLY reviews he then publishes are positive and product friendly.

    Having said that, I do like what I read in MT's review. The only thing I have a little trouble digesting is his comparison with the Sony "I certainly think it’s no slower or less responsive than say a Sony A7RII in use – the bits that are slow we can live with". I don't know what he means by that. The A7RII has AF that is as fast as my Canon 7D2, shoots at 5 fps and exhibits virtually no shutter lag.

    Still, I think these are good times for MF in general. In all probability the X1D will appeal to many and will be very popular, although I would still wait till Photokina before I order one for myself. By then we would know everything there is to know about it and possibly the competition.
    Too much to list, let's just say I have a bad case of GAS.........
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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by erick.boileau View Post
    No not exactly or not only, if it is a camera to shoot in studio portrait or fashion there is no needs for portability, the target of this camera seems to be the quality of MF for another kind of photos , street , events , weddings, traveling ...
    " … because in the end the only reason to get this camera is IQ you "subjectively" prefer … in a much easier to carry form".

    Doesn't "easier to CARRY form" suggest the applications you outline?

    I will disagree with the studio application you rigidly imply as not needing to be smaller or lighter. Smaller/lighter has more advantages than just "portability". It helps with endurance. I shoot 80% of my in-studio people/fashion/sports work hand-held tethered to a computer and using lighting where flash duration is more important than shutter speed. I do so to spontaniously explore different perspectives, to move with the subject, to quickly move closer to further away, etc. 8 hours of that with a traditional MFD system is back breaking, hard work … as evidenced by my latest MRI

    If I got this camera it'd be for that reason first, closely followed by easy to transport/use on location jobs, the obvious bonus would be serious travel photography … I'd use it for weddings/events only because I had it, not because I bought it for that purpose. Not many wedding businesses can responsibily support the expense of MFD on their own. Street is a possibility, but if that was my primary objective, I'm not sure a leaf-shutter camera with slowish lenses would be at the top of my shopping list.

    - Marc
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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Street is a possibility, but if that was my primary objective, I'm not sure a leaf-shutter camera with slowish lenses would be at the top of my shopping list.
    Sunny street photography :-)
    Leica M

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    Senior Member DougDolde's Avatar
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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    My biggest issue with Hasselblad is not being able to use Capture One. My experience with Phocus is very limited and not very positive. How do you experienced Phocus users find the software ?

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by DougDolde View Post
    My biggest issue with Hasselblad is not being able to use Capture One. My experience with Phocus is very limited and not very positive. How do you experienced Phocus users find the software ?
    Try it and see - it is a free download. IMO - you have to use it because it delivers the best file from Hassleblad's raw- as well as provides the best lens adjustments for Hasselblads HC lens line as well as V series - not to mention tethering.

    It is a different offer to C1 and LR - which try and replace PS functionality as well as provide decent DAM capability. Phocus doesn't try and do everything - what it does it does very well.
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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Treat it as the raw converter vs 75% of the image processor and phocus works well. I have to use it with my cfv16 and it works well creating tiffs for Photoshop. Capture one goes further but other than the inconvenience of having to use another converter it works well.
    Ylem ...

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Colson View Post
    That's not true. I'm criticizing the ad, not the camera. I'm purchasing the camera. The ad sucks. It's a good ad for the narrator and for the destination, but not a good camera ad.



    Ads have an opportunity to differentiate the product from other products and from other categories. Or to show what the product can do in a real world environment. Witness the recent iPhone ads showing videos that were produced using iPhones.

    Not "good enough for me".

    Joe
    Joey
    It's testimonial advertising this is what 90% of Hasselblad's ads have been, there website is full of the same thing just different photographers with loud music holding the cameras.
    This authenticates the product from a person so it's more believable than coming from the manufacture.

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    https://youtu.be/DMebEmPO1Ew



    Quote Originally Posted by DougDolde View Post
    My biggest issue with Hasselblad is not being able to use Capture One. My experience with Phocus is very limited and not very positive. How do you experienced Phocus users find the software ?
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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by DougDolde View Post
    My biggest issue with Hasselblad is not being able to use Capture One. My experience with Phocus is very limited and not very positive. How do you experienced Phocus users find the software ?
    The newest iteration of Phocus, 3.0, is significantly improved in terms of the UI and its basic functionality. As noted by others, it is NOT trying to be a replacement for PS, like LR and C1. It is a pretty basic raw converter. While its feature set is more limited than LR and C1, Phocus is still a very well designed and functional piece of software. This is NOT at all like the typical raw converters from Japanese camera manufacturers like Canon, Sony, Fuji, Sigma, etc. It's very easy to learn. It is also in my experience quite stable. The biggest shortcoming is the lack of effective highlight and shadow recovery tools. It has the tools, but they are just not effective compared to LR and C1. The color editor in Phocus is also not nearly as powerful as the one in C1. 3.0 does have adjustment layers with limited tools, but I am sure these will increase over time.
    LR also works quite well with Hasselblad files. At the margins, Phocus does do a better job with color and tonality with SOME images, but with others the differences are VERY subtle and LR does allow you make certain adjustments with the raw file that you can't do in Phocus. I have a number of Hasselblad files where I much prefer the LR version to the Phocus version.
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    Senior Member DougDolde's Avatar
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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    I took a look at Phocus and all I can say is UGH. Maybe Phase One will come out with a mirrorless camera. I'd rather lug my heavy XF kit than use Phocus.

    Lightroom would be an option if I could avoid the cataloging function and work in sessions. I guess that leaves working in ACR as the only option I'd want to use.

    I still make my own catalog like I did when shooting film. I use Bridge to create a folder with just one image and a subfolder for the raw files. Guess you can't teach an old dog new tricks.
    Last edited by DougDolde; 6th July 2016 at 10:45.

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Hi,

    The data base based idea of Lightroom is it's raison de étre. If you don't want to use that, you would not use LR. LR is simple ACR with a data base interface, and possibly a better GUI.

    Best regards
    Erik


    Quote Originally Posted by DougDolde View Post
    I took a look at Phocus and all I can say is UGH. Maybe Phase One will come out with a mirrorless camera. I'd rather lug my heavy XF kit than use Phocus.

    Lightroom would be an option if I could avoid the cataloging function and work in sessions. I guess that leaves working in ACR as the only option I'd want to use.

    I still make my own catalog like I did when shooting film. I use Bridge to create a folder with just one image and a subfolder for the raw files. Guess you can't teach an old dog new tricks.

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Hi,

    Ming Thein writes about the X1D supporting EFSC (Electronic First Shutter Curtain) in the X1D. It seems that he missed that the X1D is a leaf shutter camera.

    Now, it may be possible to combine the EFSC implementation of a sensor in combination with a leaf shutter to shorten response time, but Ming Thein's writing actually indicates that the X1D actually has a mechanical second curtain, which I think it clearly lacks.

    Let's put it this way, I am not that impressed by Ming Thein's posting. Sorry for that…

    Best regards
    Erik


    Quote Originally Posted by DougDolde View Post

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Very simple: with a leaf shutter, normally the shutter closes before the exposure begins, but this would not be required for EFCS. Then the shutter opens up - equivalent to the first curtain of a focal plane shutter. After the exposure time is complete, roughly, the (leaf) shutter closes - equivalent to the second curtain of a focal plane shutter. So implementing EFCS with a leaf shutter should not be a problem.

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by ErikKaffehr View Post
    Hi,

    Ming Thein writes about the X1D supporting EFSC (Electronic First Shutter Curtain) in the X1D. It seems that he missed that the X1D is a leaf shutter camera.

    Now, it may be possible to combine the EFSC implementation of a sensor in combination with a leaf shutter to shorten response time, but Ming Thein's writing actually indicates that the X1D actually has a mechanical second curtain, which I think it clearly lacks.

    Let's put it this way, I am not that impressed by Ming Thein's posting. Sorry for that…

    Best regards
    Erik
    Didn't understand his comment on EFSC either.

    I downloaded the FullRes photos at his site and must say that I am a bit disappointed about the high noise level at base ISO (all photos are 100 ISO). Maybe its because of ARC or Flickr sharpenig algorithms. One has to wait for appropiate Raw conversions.

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by ErikKaffehr View Post
    Hi,

    Ming Thein writes about the X1D supporting EFSC (Electronic First Shutter Curtain) in the X1D. It seems that he missed that the X1D is a leaf shutter camera.

    Now, it may be possible to combine the EFSC implementation of a sensor in combination with a leaf shutter to shorten response time, but Ming Thein's writing actually indicates that the X1D actually has a mechanical second curtain, which I think it clearly lacks.

    Let's put it this way, I am not that impressed by Ming Thein's posting. Sorry for that…

    Best regards
    Erik
    The promotional videos i have seen seem to support the idea that the X1D uses a combination of electronic shutter and leaf shutter. There is a lack of terminology here that is confusing some people. The use of the word "curtain" is incorrect. Based solely on my observation of promotional videos only, it seems to me that the X1D starts the exposure electronically and then uses the leaf shutter to end the exposure. If it did not, the routine would be
    1. Press the shutter release.
    2. Leaf shutter closes.
    3. Leaf shutter opens.
    4. Exposure begins.
    5. Leaf shutter closes.
    6. Exposure ends.
    7. Leaf shutter opens again.


    Using the electronic shutter, the sequence goes something like this:
    1. Press the shutter release.
    2. Exposure begins.
    3. Leaf shutter closes.
    4. Exposure ends.
    5. Leaf shutter opens.


    The first method would have two blackouts while the second only has one.
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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by etrigan63 View Post
    The promotional videos i have seen seem to support the idea that the X1D uses a combination of electronic shutter and leaf shutter. There is a lack of terminology here that is confusing some people. The use of the word "curtain" is incorrect. Based solely on my observation of promotional videos only, it seems to me that the X1D starts the exposure electronically and then uses the leaf shutter to end the exposure. If it did not, the routine would be
    1. Press the shutter release.
    2. Leaf shutter closes.
    3. Leaf shutter opens.
    4. Exposure begins.
    5. Leaf shutter closes.
    6. Exposure ends.
    7. Leaf shutter opens again.


    Using the electronic shutter, the sequence goes something like this:
    1. Press the shutter release.
    2. Exposure begins.
    3. Leaf shutter closes.
    4. Exposure ends.
    5. Leaf shutter opens.


    The first method would have two blackouts while the second only has one.
    Sure, but Ming says: "rear curtain remains mechanical", this would only make sense if he refers to "curtain" when he actually means the leaf shutter blades.

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    I went to the X1D road show demo in Palo Alto during my lunch break today, and handled two prototypes (both early functioning hardware and near final hardware) with the 45 and 90 mm lenses. Many details of the firmware were not yet solidified in either of these prototypes, but there was enough to get a sense of the camera. My impressions:

    - very solid, well-balanced feel and balance with both lenses

    - button placements are excellent

    - shutter sound is solid, light and crisp, similar volume level to my SL as a first impression. Very restrained overall.

    - EVF is very good; I found it easy to manually focus either lens even without magnification (I didn't find the control for that, if it was implemented). This also says that the lenses are contrasty and clean-imaging wide open.

    - at least one of the tech reps said that the X1D supports wired tethering as well as wireless control. This means a wired remote could be made using the USB port; there is no separate port for a wired remote. No wired remote exists at present.

    - AF seemed fine on speed and accuracy to me, but given how early the fw in both of these prototypes is and how little I use AF there's little else credible I could say about it.

    - We talked a little bit about future lenses. The 30mm we've all heard about was mentioned, what to follow that depends (most likely) on what customer feedback highlights.

    - The touch screen control seems pretty easy to learn and reasonably quick in use.

    My overall impression is that this is a camera that will do Hasselblad very well and be appealing to a broad audience of users. It's not a replacement for my other cameras, for which I have a substantial lens portfolio, but presuming that the ultra-wide lens I would like is produced, I would have no reservations about owning/using one. The design, feel, and balance of the camera as a package is outstanding. I can take it on faith at this point that the sensor is excellent and the lenses' quality is par for their price.

    The local store sales contact gave me his card and said he expects production demo units to arrive within a few weeks, when I'll be able to experiment with it on a longer basis and take some exposures home to work with.

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    I went to the demo in Palo alto today and all I can say is WOW! I want one. The camera is smaller than I thought, maybe half the size of my D810. The user interface looks good with buttons you can program. The one thing I was not impressed with is the EVF, very high contrast (but the demo was inside), but what I did like is when you move the camera to your eye it automatically switches from back view to the viewfinder. What I didn't check is what info is displayed in the viewfinder. No shutter release port but you can control the camera with you smartphone to tablet, kind of like the Cam Ranger.
    I think they are going to sell a lot of these!

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Gale View Post
    ... What I didn't check is what info is displayed in the viewfinder. ...
    I don't think all the EVF/LCD display options were implemented yet. A "rule of thirds" grid was available, the viewfinder display had all the essentials (ISO, shutter setting, aperture setting, manual metering readout, and EV compensation setting in auto modes). Like the rest of the camera, it seemed a clean and spare display design.
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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Hi,

    As I have posted in my original posting, it may be possible to shorten exposure time and response time by resetting the sensor instead of closing the leaf shutter.

    If the 44x33 mm CMOS sensor has an EFCS option it may be used for that, but it would be much more optimal to just reset the sensor and start the exposure and close the leaf shutter to end the exposure.

    Talking about an electronic first curtain indicates a sweeping reset, because that is what EFCS does. Ming Thein also clearly talks about a mechanical second curtain, which the X1D clearly lacks.

    So, that leaves me with a clear impression of sloppy writing.

    Best regards
    Erik


    Quote Originally Posted by siddhaarta View Post
    Sure, but Ming says: "rear curtain remains mechanical", this would only make sense if he refers to "curtain" when he actually means the leaf shutter blades.

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by ErikKaffehr View Post
    Hi,

    As I have posted in my original posting, it may be possible to shorten exposure time and response time by resetting the sensor instead of closing the leaf shutter.

    If the 44x33 mm CMOS sensor has an EFCS option it may be used for that, but it would be much more optimal to just reset the sensor and start the exposure and close the leaf shutter to end the exposure.

    Talking about an electronic first curtain indicates a sweeping reset, because that is what EFCS does. Ming Thein also clearly talks about a mechanical second curtain, which the X1D clearly lacks.

    So, that leaves me with a clear impression of sloppy writing.

    Best regards
    Erik
    Maybe Ming was averse to coining a new phrase. To my knowledge, this is the first interchangeable lens mirrorless camera with leaf shutters. Therefore someone has to come up with appropriate terminology. Yes, the Sony RX1 & Fuji X100 (and their descendants) had leaf shutters, but those are fixed mount cameras. Perhaps when the manual is published, we will see what the Swedish engineers call it.
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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Erik,

    I think that Ming Thein merely adheres to terminology any photographer will understand.
    E.g., the H series have a rear sync flash mode, as is described in the manuals, although they don't have a focal plane shutter.
    It may not be technically accurate, but we all can understand the principle.
    I suppose the techniques to implement 1/2000 shutter speed is the same as on the H6D. Which makes me wonder if the same shutters are used in both lens series. If not, the new shutters for both platforms may well have been developed in conjunction.
    I very much admire the way in which Hasselblad have adapted H platform techniques into the X1D.



    Quote Originally Posted by ErikKaffehr View Post
    Hi,

    As I have posted in my original posting, it may be possible to shorten exposure time and response time by resetting the sensor instead of closing the leaf shutter.

    If the 44x33 mm CMOS sensor has an EFCS option it may be used for that, but it would be much more optimal to just reset the sensor and start the exposure and close the leaf shutter to end the exposure.

    Talking about an electronic first curtain indicates a sweeping reset, because that is what EFCS does. Ming Thein also clearly talks about a mechanical second curtain, which the X1D clearly lacks.

    So, that leaves me with a clear impression of sloppy writing.

    Best regards
    Erik
    Frans Rutten

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Regards to EFCS, couldn't that someone with a XF + IQ x50 Test. ( or the same sensor. )

    I only have my 100 here and there it is easy to "see" hear the EFCS at work. Just use vibration delay mode on the XF and you will hear shutter opening st the beginning at the count down and no sound at the beginning of the exposure. The shutter is only closing after it's done.

    For comparison one can use the timer delay instead of the vibration delay. In this mode EFCS is not used (WHY PHASE ?!?) and you can hear the difference quit easily.

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by Miller View Post
    Erik,

    Which makes me wonder if the same shutters are used in both lens series. If not, the new shutters for both platforms may well have been developed in conjunction.
    I very much admire the way in which Hasselblad have adapted H platform techniques into the X1D.
    Yes same shutters in both to the best of my knowledge.

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Erik,

    If the 44x33 mm CMOS sensor has an EFCS option...
    Quote Originally Posted by Ove Bengtson
    ...the system uses two 1/1000sec shutter speeds, one electronic and one mechanical, and off-sets them by half a shutter speed so that they are only open together for 1/2000sec – when the flash is at its peak. 'In tests we have achieved shorter shutter speeds and flash sync speeds' says Mr. Bengtson, 'but we need more tests to ensure the system is reliable. The electronic shutter function is otherwise only available in video mode, so we won't be introducing a general electronic shutter for normal shutter speeds as this sensor works best with a mechanical shutter.'
    Emphasis mine.

    Ming Thein also clearly talks about a mechanical second curtain, which the X1D clearly lacks.
    Ming Thein clearly talks about a mechanical rear curtain, presumably referring to the (obviously mechanical) leaf shutter:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ming Thein
    ...responsiveness is good though I’m told will improve with an EFC mode (not full electronic; rear curtain remains mechanical) that doesn’t require the leaf shutter to close first to expose.
    ...that leaves me with a clear impression of sloppy writing.
    "Sloppy writing" is not synonymous with "Ming Thein".

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    Senior Member ErikKaffehr's Avatar
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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Hi Rob,

    Unfortunately I have noted some inaccuracies in another Hasselblad oriented article by Ming Thein.

    Take this article: https://blog.mingthein.com/2013/01/2...blad-v-series/

    Let's look at this statement: "Bodies
    Generally, for a shooter, you want to look at buy the 500-series (also known as the V series; includes 500, 500C, 500C/M, 501, 501C, 501C/M, 503CW, 503CX etc). The C means that it uses C-mount lenses which have built in Copal leaf shutters; anything with /M means upgraded/ modified"


    What is the issue with that? Well, no Hasselblad V-series camera ever had a Copal shutter. The original C-series had Synchro-Compur while the later CF models all use Prontor shutters. What may be of a certain importance that the Prontor shutters are regarded to be much more reliable than the Synchro-Compurs. But, that may be an urban myth.

    So, let's check this statement: "CF lenses are the best bang for the buck. They have coupled aperture/shutter speed rings (with the exception of the 80/2.8 CF T*) and upgraded shutter mechanisms; CFE and CFI lenses are later models with electronic coupling and are several times more expensive than CF, often for no particularly good reason. "

    The CF lenses have normally decoupled aperture/shutter speed rings. There is a button you can press to couple the rings. The C-series have continuously coupled rings. As said before CF-lenses have Prontor shutters. CFi lenses don't have electronic couplings. Hasselblad claims that the CFi lenses are significantly improved regarding light shielding, even if I have my doubts. The CFE lenses allow for aperture coupled metering on F-series bodies. With CFi and older you need to manually set aperture the metering prism and manually set the EV value on the exposure scale.

    So, Ming Thein says: "The good lenses – all CF or higher – are the 40/4 Distagon FLE, the 50/4 Distagon FLE, the 80/2.8 Planar, 120/4 Makro-Planar, 150/4 Planar and 180/4 Planar. These are roughly 24, 28, 45-50, 85, 100 and 120 equivalents. The FLE lenses have a separate correction ring for optimising close-range performance."

    A small issue with that statement is that two of those lenses don't actually exist. The 150/4 and the 180/4 are not Planars but Sonnars. Saying that the 40/4 Distagon FLE is a good lens may be over the edge, it suffers from severe astigmatism and probably quite extensive field curvature. More importantly, Hasselblad actually has a truly excellent 40/4 Distagon, the Distagon® T* 4/40 IF CFE. The later lens is clearly superior to the older versions. I clearly feel the new lens deserve a mention…

    The Planar 100/3.5 CF (in all vesions) is know to be a superior lens at long distances. Zeiss recommends the Planar 100/3.5 CF if the subject area is above 1 square meter and the Planar 120/4 CF below that. The Planar 120/4 CF has good performance at macro distances, but has a lot of field curvature at long distances. Worth mentioning, is it not?

    The Distagon 60/3.5 is a decent lens, in the same league as the 50/4.

    I own or have owned most of those lenses.

    Distagon 40/4 CF FLE, (Distagon 50/4 CF FLE), Distagon 60/3.5 CF, Planar 80/2.8 CFE, Planar 100/3.5 CF, (Planar 120/4 CF), Planar 120/4 CFi, (Sonnar 150/4 C T*), (Sonnar 150/4 CF) and the Sonnar 180/4 CFi. The lenses in parenthesis are the ones I no longer have. I have been shooting those lenses with a 555/ELD combined with a Phase One P45+ back. So, I feel I have some experience with the system and with the lenses.

    Just to say, I don't think the information from Ming Thein is bad, just that his writing is not accurate, with quite a few factual errors. I perhaps also feel some bias.

    Just to complement, here are MTF data for a few lenses, first the two 40/4 Distagons:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Followed by the Planars 120/4 and 100/3.5 at infinity:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Just to say, the Makro Planar 120/4 is pretty good at close up range, so claiming it is a good lens is not far fetched, assuming that you intend to shoot close up:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Best regards
    Erik





    Quote Originally Posted by AreBee View Post
    Erik,





    Emphasis mine.



    Ming Thein clearly talks about a mechanical rear curtain, presumably referring to the (obviously mechanical) leaf shutter:





    "Sloppy writing" is not synonymous with "Ming Thein".

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    So what.
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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Thanks Erik for pointing that out and for providing info re: the V-system. I don't think slight inacurracies really matter though in the context of the X1D. MT is currently shooting with the H5D-50c, H6D-50c, the CFV-50c, and now the X1D and AFAIK has all of them in hand. As he's shooting with and in possession of 4 different Hasselblads using the same sensor, he's probably more qualified than anyone else out there (save Hasselblad themselves) to comment on the performance of the X1D (especially in comparison to other similar Hasselblad models, the 645z he owned, D810 + Otus, etc) despite some potential bias and potential inaccuracies.

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Hi,

    May be.

    On the other hand I feel quite strongly that if you are publishing info you should care about providing accurate info.

    Best regards
    Erik


    Quote Originally Posted by tcdeveau View Post
    Thanks Erik for pointing that out and for providing info re: the V-system. I don't think slight inacurracies really matter though in the context of the X1D. MT is currently shooting with the H5D-50c, H6D-50c, the CFV-50c, and now the X1D and AFAIK has all of them in hand. As he's shooting with and in possession of 4 different Hasselblads using the same sensor, he's probably more qualified than anyone else out there (save Hasselblad themselves) to comment on the performance of the X1D (especially in comparison to other similar Hasselblad models, the 645z he owned, D810 + Otus, etc) despite some potential bias and potential inaccuracies.

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    ..I don't think the information from Ming Thein is bad, just that his writing is not accurate, with quite a few factual errors.
    We all make mistakes, Erik, and for what it's worth, Ming Thein strikes me as someone who would welcome factually incorrect information being brought to his attention so that it can be corrected.

    However, there is no argument from me that your rebuttal is fair and well made. I'm not sure I consider Ming Thein to be biased to the extent that you do, but unlike your argument, that is a matter of difference in opinion.

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by ErikKaffehr View Post
    Hi,

    May be.

    On the other hand I feel quite strongly that if you are publishing info you should care about providing accurate info.

    Best regards
    Erik
    I am sure he cares. Compared to 95% of the so-called reviews out there by bloggers, Ming Thein strikes me as a pretty thoughtful guy. To be fair, you make literally hundreds of statements that are passed off as fact but are really anecdotal recollections of others from the internet that are not based upon direct, personal experience or testing. Nobody knows everything. And nobody here is going to make a decision on buying the X1D based upon Ming Thein's observations. You need to take EVERYTHING on the internet with a grain of salt, but it is interesting to read about his experience as he is one of the first photographers out in the wild to have access to the X1D who is sharing that experience and some files. BTW, I don't pay too much attention to the files at this point. If there is one thing about the X1D I have confidence about is that the files will be the equal of the files from the H5D-50c and the H6D-50c. If you have actually worked with those cameras and are happy with the files, that box is checked.
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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by hcubell View Post
    I am sure he cares. Compared to 95% of the so-called reviews out there by bloggers, Ming Thein strikes me as a pretty thoughtful guy. To be fair, you make literally hundreds of statements that are passed off as fact but are really anecdotal recollections of others from the internet that are not based upon direct, personal experience or testing. Nobody knows everything. And nobody here is going to make a decision on buying the X1D based upon Ming Thein's observations. You need to take EVERYTHING on the internet with a grain of salt, but it is interesting to read about his experience as he is one of the first photographers out in the wild to have access to the X1D who is sharing that experience and some files. BTW, I don't pay too much attention to the files at this point. If there is one thing about the X1D I have confidence about is that the files will be the equal of the files from the H5D-50c and the H6D-50c. If you have actually worked with those cameras and are happy with the files, that box is checked.
    Well said, Howard. I agree with most everything you say.

    The internet is a place where everybody has an opinion and it is up to the reader to accept it or not. There is no doubt in my mind that the X1D is going to take great pictures. Whether the process is going to be easy or user friendly and how it would compare with the existing systems etc are the great unknowns. These are things nobody can answer fully right now but we are all so used to instant gratification that it fuels all the speculation that is going on.

    I am sure there are many, many well qualified photographers with the experience and knowledge of Hasselblad systems to rival MT who are silent and do not visit this or other forums and do not write blogs. The only people who currently have access to the X1D are those who are affiliated with the company in some fashion or the other. That by the very nature of things makes them biased towards the product. Heck, we are all biased in so many ways. This is just another aspect of human behavior. So while I do appreciate the information coming from MT's blog, it would be foolish of me to believe that it is 100% accurate and impartial.

    Nevertheless, it is still worth reading and still worth discussing.
    Too much to list, let's just say I have a bad case of GAS.........
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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by etrigan63 View Post
    The use of the word "curtain" is incorrect.
    In the meantime Ming made it clear that the second "curtain" are the blades of the leaf shutter closing.

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by siddhaarta View Post
    In the meantime Ming made it clear that the second "curtain" are the blades of the leaf shutter closing.
    That's what I said. Anyway this is a bit of a trivial thing, isn't it?
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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Obviously Ming cares … he has already corrected the article in question.

    I don't know, but I think had I come across that article, I probably would have e-mailed him about the inaccurate info since he has always seemed a well intentioned, positive and enthusiastic photographer compared to others with paid sites who seem to thrive on finding fault.

    Inaccurate info isn't the same as expressing an opinion about "best lenses for the buck" …. at the time of the article, the Zeiss 40IF wouldn't be a lens I'd recommend to someone looking to explore a V system on a budget … which is what I took as Ming's objective. I agree that the 65mm and 100mm are excellent lenses, but are sort of "tweener" focal lengths for someone building off a basic 500CM or 503CW and 80mm kit.

    From a shooting perspective (as opposed to a collector's), not many have as much experience with the V cameras and lenses as moi. 40+ years and most every model … including my favorite "Sunshine Vacation Camera", a Canary Yellow V

    I like this new Hasselblad. It seems more in tuned with their heritage and positioning intent for the future. Oddly, it reminds me more of the V cameras than the H series did.

    I have fewer questions about the camera than I do about the lenses. MTFs aside, how they aesthetically render will carry more weight for me. That'll take some time to discover, and a lot of shots by a lot of different shooters.

    - Marc
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    Senior Member ErikKaffehr's Avatar
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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Hi Marc,

    Thanks for responding, I have great respect for your view on the issue.

    On the other hand I don't think it hurts to point out some issues. As a respected writer you have responsibility to be correct. I did consider posting Ming Thein, but I decided not to. I am not comfortable telling folks I don't know that they need to correct their writing.

    It is great that Ming Thein corrected his writing on the "rear curtain".

    To add a little bit of context, quite a few posters over at LuLa expected the X1D to be a device like the Sony A7rII that you can put on a technical camera and combine with lenses at will. The reason it cannot be done is because it lacks a mechanical focal plane shutter.

    I would think that Hasselblad designed the X1D to be nice (or even great) mirrorless camera. My assumption is that there are couple of reasons they didn't use a focal plane shutter, the ability of short flash sync is one of them. Another factor is that Hasselblad already has a very well designed leaf shutter.

    Hasselblad has some pride in combining electronic opening of the shutter, which is nearly instantaneous, with the central shutter, and they describe it quite clearly here: Mirrorless is 'probably' the future: an interview with Hasselblad Product Manager Ove Bengtson: Digital Photography Review

    Best regards
    Erik




    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Obviously Ming cares … he has already corrected the article in question.

    I don't know, but I think had I come across that article, I probably would have e-mailed him about the inaccurate info since he has always seemed a well intentioned, positive and enthusiastic photographer compared to others with paid sites who seem to thrive on finding fault.

    Inaccurate info isn't the same as expressing an opinion about "best lenses for the buck" …. at the time of the article, the Zeiss 40IF wouldn't be a lens I'd recommend to someone looking to explore a V system on a budget … which is what I took as Ming's objective. I agree that the 65mm and 100mm are excellent lenses, but are sort of "tweener" focal lengths for someone building off a basic 500CM or 503CW and 80mm kit.

    From a shooting perspective (as opposed to a collector's), not many have as much experience with the V cameras and lenses as moi. 40+ years and most every model … including my favorite "Sunshine Vacation Camera", a Canary Yellow V

    I like this new Hasselblad. It seems more in tuned with their heritage and positioning intent for the future. Oddly, it reminds me more of the V cameras than the H series did.

    I have fewer questions about the camera than I do about the lenses. MTFs aside, how they aesthetically render will carry more weight for me. That'll take some time to discover, and a lot of shots by a lot of different shooters.

    - Marc
    Last edited by ErikKaffehr; 8th July 2016 at 09:52.

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Even the best technical writers make mistakes. It's never a problem to a good writer to be told that something was inaccurate in what they wrote. If they're putting so much ego into what they write that it is, then they aren't a particularly good writer anyway.

    As a full-time technical writer myself, I welcome corrections from readers.

    Quote Originally Posted by ErikKaffehr View Post
    ...
    I would think that Hasselblad designed the X1D to be nice (or even great) mirrorless camera. ...
    I would hope that Hasselblad designed the X1D to be an excellent camera, regardless of what kind of viewfinder system it uses. And, based on what I saw at the demo on Wednesday, they've succeeded, at least with respect to haptics, build quality, feel, and intended feature set.

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Thanks for the great reference, including the comments there.
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Obviously Ming cares … he has already corrected the article in question.

    - Marc
    Yes I emailed Ming to point out that there were some minor errors.

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Hands on today with the X1D - beware, it's a touch / hold it you want one type of camera!! Feels great in the hand and build quality and heft were excellent. One thing I didn't like was the mode dial as it has a tapered top that wasn't easy to grasp however, the rep said that this was going to change in the production version so that the knurled edge would be easy to turn unseen.

    The UI was easy to use and I liked the fact that the mode dials displayed in the EVF. Personally I found the EVF intuitive plus you can use the rear LCD. No complaints there.

    We discussed the lenses and the forthcoming 30mm. Interestingly the rep was asking what would be preferred next? A super wide or zoom / 150mm or so. My preference was a 150mm but the super wide was a new option.

    I was picking up a 43mm for my mamiya 7 so had a chance to compare sizes between 503, X1D and my Mamiya 7. The X1D was surprisingly svelte and about the height of the 503 body/folded waist finder.

    Btw, definitely still a work in progress. The firmware didn't have the square/xpan VF overlay plus AF was iffy on one body and the same body rendered a banded image. However, none of this should bother people because they'll be fixed by product release. Definitely beta firmware right now.

    images looked great at ISO 3200 shot indoors.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by GrahamWelland; 8th July 2016 at 18:12.
    Ylem ...
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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Thanks for posting this photo Graham. My two absolute best/favorite film camera systems years ago were the Hasselblad 503cx and Mamiya 7II. Needless to say the minute I saw the X1D I knew that is the direction I want to go in my photography....immediately brought back good comparisons of these two film systems. Eleanor

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    Hands on today with the X1D - beware, it's a touch / hold it you want one type of camera!! Feels great in the hand and build quality and heft were excellent. One thing I didn't like was the mode dial as it has a tapered top that wasn't easy to grasp however, the rep said that this was going to change in the production version so that the knurled edge would be easy to turn unseen.

    The UI was easy to use and I liked the fact that the mode dials displayed in the EVF. Personally I found the EVF intuitive plus you can use the rear LCD. No complaints there.

    We discussed the lenses and the forthcoming 30mm. Interestingly the rep was asking what would be preferred next? A super wide or zoom / 150mm or so. My preference was a 150mm but the super wide was a new option.

    I was picking up a 43mm for my mamiya 7 so had a chance to compare sizes between 503, X1D and my Mamiya 7. The X1D was surprisingly svelte and about the height of the 503 body/folded waist finder.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Good to know, Graham. That new kit is small enough to fit in your Range Rover glove box---it won't make a dent in your rear cargo capacity. Can't wait to see your new kit at next years Pigs/CI!

    ken

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    I'm proud of myself. I managed to leave the store without placing a pre-order

    (Tough to justify this AND the upgrade option to the IQ3 100 )
    Ylem ...

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    Hands on today with the X1D - beware, it's a touch....

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Thanks for this post Graham from a fellow M7II owner, I couldn't read the whole thread, so much of it is off topic, so glad you put that picture, which I spotted when scanning. Your sentiment is exactly what I was looking for.

    - Paul
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