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Thread: Hasselblad X1D

  1. #801
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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Indeed. In a thread were people are bandying about comparisons between their Leica S system, P1 system, Alpa system, Hasselblad SLR system against the new X1D system ... ?

    A quick glance at Leica S lenses says new prices are in the $4000-$10,000 range. The X1D's currently announced two lenses are $3500-4500. The XF 24mm is $7800. Ultra wide lenses are easier to design and build for shorter mount registers without a mirror in the path, but they're not cheap nonetheless. I would not imagine an X1D 21mm lens to cost much more than the Leica Super-Elmar-S 24mm f/3.5, which at least one person here has already said is one of their favorite lenses.

    Seems a bit over the top to be cautionary about affordability when you're talking $9000 and up bodies and $4000 to $12,000 lenses ... !

    G
    What's an XF 24mm? The only "24"'s I was aware of in MF were the Hasselblad HCD 24mm, Leica S 24mm, the Pentax 25mm, and the Rodenstock 23mm. There's also the not-as wide P1/Mamiya 28mm/28mm LS and Pentax 28-45mm.

    B&H currently has the "old" 24mm Hasselblad HCD 24mm (1/800th shutter) for $6k (they had a used one for $4500 for awhile which has been sold), the newer one with 1/2000th sync is a little over $7k. The Leica S is ~$8800 at B&H, as is the Rodenstock (without lens mount). Pentax discontinued the 25mm AFAIK but a couple used copies have popped up lately for ~$4k. (all prices USD).

    The currently announced XCD lenses for the X1D are $2295 and $2695, pretty far off from the $3500-4000 range cited above. Affordability is relative and subjective obviously. As ultra-wides tend to be more expensive than their other WA counterparts, I'd expect the price of a <30mm XCD to be somewhere between the current XCD lenses but less than the current 1/800th shutter 24mm HCD, which is currently the cheapest currently-available MF ultra-wide (AFAIK - ignoring the Pentax 28-45mm @ $5k new) - this would make it more expensive than the current offerings while still being affordable compared to it's other ultra-wide counterparts. Perhaps sticker shock for those entering MF but "cheap" for those with IQ3 100mp/rodenstock tech combos or other existing MF setups. I'm hoping that pricing of future XCD lenses stays in line with the current 45mm and 90mm prices, although I expect an ultra-wide and zooms to cost more.

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by MGrayson View Post
    By long edge ratios,

    45*36/44 = 37mm equivalent
    30*36/44 = 24.5mm equivalent

    --Matt
    Matt - Thank you, greatly appreciated. I'd love it. Alas ............

    .............. Chris

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    Senior Member DougDolde's Avatar
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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    I have used both 24mm and 28mm Schneiders on a tech cam with the IQ140 (same 33x44mm sensor size).

    The 28mm is pretty wide, the 24mm is a super wide. I think a 24mm would be the next X1D prime.

    24mm compares to 67mm in 4x5 terms
    28mm compares to 78mm in 4x5

    30mm compares to about 86mm in 4x5 terms

    And for the two announced X1D lenses:
    45mm compares to 126mm in 4x5 terms
    90mm compares to 251mm in 4x5 terms

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Well perhaps it's worth considering the relative costs one of the last times a similar HasselFuji produced a camera that required MF lenses (albeit manual focus) with the XPan. Way back in 2005 the body was $1800, the 45mm $550, 90mm $660 and the 30mm ... $2750.

    Anyway, just a thought. I realize that these are different systems but I've yet to run into a super wide that wasn't a LOT more expensive than normal focal lengths. (I can also relate to how much my Alpa SK 24mm and Alpa Rodie 23HR lenses cost too compared to more mortal focal lengths, well at least before the Rodie 32HR & 90HRSW came along).

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post

    Seems a bit over the top to be cautionary about affordability when you're talking $9000 and up bodies and $4000 to $12,000 lenses ... !

    G
    Heck, we all have budgets. My lottery retirement plan hasn't worked out quite yet and I guess I've never had the desire to participate in true white collar crime. I guess that I should have kept chasing startups or working in the City after all.
    Ylem ...
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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by tcdeveau View Post
    What's an XF 24mm? ...
    Of course I meant the HCD. Etc. Thank you for correcting my errors.

    But it's no matter really, not my point. My point is that posting a cautionary based on affordability when we're talking about what is all, essentially, stratospherically-priced camera equipment in the first place seems a bit over the top.

    G
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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    Well perhaps it's worth considering the relative costs one of the last times a similar HasselFuji produced a camera that required MF lenses (albeit manual focus) with the XPan. Way back in 2005 the body was $1800, the 45mm $550, 90mm $660 and the 30mm ... $2750.

    Anyway, just a thought. I realize that these are different systems but I've yet to run into a super wide that wasn't a LOT more expensive than normal focal lengths. (I can also relate to how much my Alpa SK 24mm and Alpa Rodie 23HR lenses cost too compared to more mortal focal lengths, well at least before the Rodie 32HR & 90HRSW came along).

    Heck, we all have budgets. My lottery retirement plan hasn't worked out quite yet and I guess I've never had the desire to participate in true white collar crime. I guess that I should have kept chasing startups or working in the City after all.
    My retirement plan has been set based on the notion of buying all the hyper-expensive gear I wanted to work with while in retirement BEFORE I retire, and after I retire selling it off piece by piece at inflated collectible pricing to the still-working "if only I had one of those I'd be HCB!" crowd in order to pay my rent... I don't really want to own it, I just want to use it.

    I'll let you know how that works out after I retire.

    G
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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by tcdeveau View Post
    What's an XF 24mm? The only "24"'s I was aware of in MF were the Hasselblad HCD 24mm, Leica S 24mm, the Pentax 25mm, and the Rodenstock 23mm. There's also the not-as wide P1/Mamiya 28mm/28mm LS and Pentax 28-45mm.

    B&H currently has the "old" 24mm Hasselblad HCD 24mm (1/800th shutter) for $6k (they had a used one for $4500 for awhile which has been sold), the newer one with 1/2000th sync is a little over $7k. The Leica S is ~$8800 at B&H, as is the Rodenstock (without lens mount). Pentax discontinued the 25mm AFAIK but a couple used copies have popped up lately for ~$4k. (all prices USD).

    The currently announced XCD lenses for the X1D are $2295 and $2695, pretty far off from the $3500-4000 range cited above. Affordability is relative and subjective obviously. As ultra-wides tend to be more expensive than their other WA counterparts, I'd expect the price of a <30mm XCD to be somewhere between the current XCD lenses but less than the current 1/800th shutter 24mm HCD, which is currently the cheapest currently-available MF ultra-wide (AFAIK - ignoring the Pentax 28-45mm @ $5k new) - this would make it more expensive than the current offerings while still being affordable compared to it's other ultra-wide counterparts. Perhaps sticker shock for those entering MF but "cheap" for those with IQ3 100mp/rodenstock tech combos or other existing MF setups. I'm hoping that pricing of future XCD lenses stays in line with the current 45mm and 90mm prices, although I expect an ultra-wide and zooms to cost more.
    Keep in mind we are discussing various formats that have differing 35 equivalencies.

    For example--a 28mm lens ($6k) for the XF+100 is about 62% for 35 equivalent (or 17mm), but for the old V lenses if I recall it was 80% for 35 equivalency and about the same 80% for the Pentax 645Z lenses making the 25mm ($5k new) about a 20mm in 35 equivalent terms.

    I have not checked on the X1D equivalency for lenses, but it must be around the same as the Pentax 645Z.

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    I have not checked on the X1D equivalency for lenses, but it must be around the same as the Pentax 645Z.
    It is exactly the same as the 645Z or IQx50 or IQ140 etc etc. A 44x33mm sensor is a 44x33mm sensor regardless of body. (Can't speak to the Hasselblad equivalents but it's still the same).
    Ylem ...
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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Hi Graham,

    Not that I have tested, but both the Canon 24/3.5 TSE LII and the 17/4 TSE are quite workable on MFD sensors, actually covering the IQ-180. The 11-24/4L has also been tested with a 44x33 back. Using Canon lenses on the HCam B1 was the essential idea behind that camera and the same applies in part to the Alpa FPS, AFAIK.

    But, you cannot put any of those lenses on the X1D as it lacks a camera shutter.

    On the other hand, Hasselblad is always thinking out of the box and they may produce a T&S adapter for the H-lenses.

    Best regards
    Erik



    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    I'm all for a super wide but some folks might be sticker shocked by what it takes to produce such a MF lens. The list of affordable 23/24mm medium format digital lenses can be counted on ... Err ... Zero fingers

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    Keep in mind we are discussing various formats that have differing 35 equivalencies.

    For example--a 28mm lens ($6k) for the XF+100 is about 62% for 35 equivalent (or 17mm), but for the old V lenses if I recall it was 80% for 35 equivalency and about the same 80% for the Pentax 645Z lenses making the 25mm ($5k new) about a 20mm in 35 equivalent terms.

    I have not checked on the X1D equivalency for lenses, but it must be around the same as the Pentax 645Z.
    You're right, I should've been clearer about format. I was only thinking of the 33x44mm format or the Leica S format. The Hasselblad HCD wides (24mm, 28mm) are not designed for a larger FF sensor like the new 40mm x 53.4mm 100mp sensor anyway, nor is the Pentax 25mm (I could be wrong about the Pentax).

    As Graham said, both the X1D and 645z have a 33x44mm sensor, so lens equivalency is identical.
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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by ErikKaffehr View Post
    Hi Graham,

    Not that I have tested, but both the Canon 24/3.5 TSE LII and the 17/4 TSE are quite workable on MFD sensors, actually covering the IQ-180. The 11-24/4L has also been tested with a 44x33 back. Using Canon lenses on the HCam B1 was the essential idea behind that camera and the same applies in part to the Alpa FPS, AFAIK.

    But, you cannot put any of those lenses on the X1D as it lacks a camera shutter.

    On the other hand, Hasselblad is always thinking out of the box and they may produce a T&S adapter for the H-lenses.

    Best regards
    Erik
    Hasselblad already has a T&S adaptor for the H-lenses - the HTS 1.5. Use on the X1D would require the H=>X adaptor. From what I've read, Hasselbad hopes the HTS 1.5 will be fully compatible with the X1D, ut I think they're still testing it out and haven't officially confirmed full compatibility. I am hoping they put out a native X T&S adaptor for the XCD lenses as well as an ultrawide though.

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    Senior Member ErikKaffehr's Avatar
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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Hi,

    The key word is 1.5, meaning 1.5X extension which needs to be multiplied by the crop factor of sensor (1.3X). Turns a 24 mm lens into a 47 mm lens.

    Hasselblad could build a XTS 1, taking H-series lenses without extension. Hasselblad, they are smart, they will do something like that…

    Best regards
    Erik

    Quote Originally Posted by tcdeveau View Post
    Hasselblad already has a T&S adaptor for the H-lenses - the HTS 1.5. Use on the X1D would require the H=>X adaptor. From what I've read, Hasselbad hopes the HTS 1.5 will be fully compatible with the X1D, ut I think they're still testing it out and haven't officially confirmed full compatibility. I am hoping they put out a native X T&S adaptor for the XCD lenses as well as an ultrawide though.

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by ErikKaffehr View Post
    Hi,

    The key word is 1.5, meaning 1.5X extension which needs to be multiplied by the crop factor of sensor (1.3X). Turns a 24 mm lens into a 47 mm lens.

    ..
    I do not understand in what situation the 24mm can turn into a 47mm.

    On X1D Hasselblad's 24mm is approximately equivalent to a 19mm "full-frame" lens, with HTS it is comparable to a 29mm in "full-frame".

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by SrMphoto View Post
    I do not understand in what situation the 24mm can turn into a 47mm.

    On X1D Hasselblad's 24mm is approximately equivalent to a 19mm "full-frame" lens, with HTS it is comparable to a 29mm in "full-frame".
    Erik's math relates to full-frame medium format, a ~40x54mm sensor, where you are doing calculations relating to 35mm full frame (24x36mm sensor). A 24mm with the HTS 1.5 on a 33x44mm "cropped" sensor MF will act like a 47mm on a 40x54mm full frame medium format camera because of the crop factor of the HTS and the crop factor of the 33x44mm sensor relative to a 40x54mm sensor.

    I'd also like to see an HTS without the 1.5 multiplication factor. I imagine it's possible to do. Current HCD wides (24, 28mm) are designed for 37x49mm max sensors, so there should be a large enough image circle to allow some movements on a 33x44mm sensor (which seems to be the future of the X series bodies) without the 1.5x magnification. I would imagine movements without the magnification factor say on a HTS 1 would be more restricted than those on an HTS 1.5 though, as it my understanding the purpose of the magnification factor of the HTS 1.5 is to effectively enlarge the image circle and allow for greater range of movements.
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    Senior Member ErikKaffehr's Avatar
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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Thanks!

    Well explained!

    Erik

    Quote Originally Posted by tcdeveau View Post
    Erik's math relates to full-frame medium format, a ~40x54mm sensor, where you are doing calculations relating to 35mm full frame (24x36mm sensor). A 24mm with the HTS 1.5 on a 33x44mm "cropped" sensor MF will act like a 47mm on a 40x54mm full frame medium format camera because of the crop factor of the HTS and the crop factor of the 33x44mm sensor relative to a 40x54mm sensor.

    I'd also like to see an HTS without the 1.5 multiplication factor. I imagine it's possible to do. Current HCD wides (24, 28mm) are designed for 37x49mm max sensors, so there should be a large enough image circle to allow some movements on a 33x44mm sensor (which seems to be the future of the X series bodies) without the 1.5x magnification. I would imagine movements without the magnification factor say on a HTS 1 would be more restricted than those on an HTS 1.5 though, as it my understanding the purpose of the magnification factor of the HTS 1.5 is to effectively enlarge the image circle and allow for greater range of movements.

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by ErikKaffehr View Post
    Hi,

    The key word is 1.5, meaning 1.5X extension which needs to be multiplied by the crop factor of sensor (1.3X). Turns a 24 mm lens into a 47 mm lens.

    Hasselblad could build a XTS 1, taking H-series lenses without extension. Hasselblad, they are smart, they will do something like that…

    Best regards
    Erik
    Hopefuly a new HTS could be backwards compatible the 1.5x is the Achilles heal for the system. The HTS is perfect for stiching and I find my tilt is usually only 1.5 degrees so personally I would prefer Hasselblad added to the firmware intergrated step focusing and left the HTS 1.5 alone, that would give us the ability to stack and shift. The truth is Basel University already has the step focusing project finished they did it for CAP Cam I have written Hasselblad about this many times.

    On another note as your aware Hasselblad seems to need lots of firmware tweeks, all three new cameras are missing significant features at this moment just to be on par with the H5D-50C. Time and money will certainly overcome the issues hopefully money flows and by the end of August or September some issues are addressed.

    My order for the H6D was supposed to be shipped two weeks ago still no ETA as of today.

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    I thought about many of the comments about the X1D and how this or that missing feature is a "deal breaker" when I read this column.
    http://visualsciencelab.blogspot.com...al-killer.html
    hcubell
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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by tcdeveau View Post
    Erik's math relates to full-frame medium format, a ~40x54mm sensor, where you are doing calculations relating to 35mm full frame (24x36mm sensor). A 24mm with the HTS 1.5 on a 33x44mm "cropped" sensor MF will act like a 47mm on a 40x54mm full frame medium format camera because of the crop factor of the HTS and the crop factor of the 33x44mm sensor relative to a 40x54mm sensor.
    Thanks for explanation.

    Since HCD 24mm covers a sensor size of 37x49mm, the crop ratio (without HTS) would be rather 1.1 only, wouldn't it?

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by hcubell View Post
    I thought about many of the comments about the X1D and how this or that missing feature is a "deal breaker" when I read this column.
    http://visualsciencelab.blogspot.com...al-killer.html
    So well expressed mate - such a pleasure to read some intelligent prose and thoughtfulness - I've bookmarked your blog

    It seems trolling has become an art form for some in itself.

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by SrMphoto View Post
    Thanks for explanation.

    Since HCD 24mm covers a sensor size of 37x49mm, the crop ratio (without HTS) would be rather 1.1 only, wouldn't it?
    Not by itself. By itself, the lens is a 24mm and has no crop factor. The image circle/area of coverage is independent from the crop factor, and the crop factor is dependent on the size of the imaging device (sensor/film) behind the lens. Relative to full frame medium format (~40x54mm), the 24mm HCD (or any other lens) would have a crop factor of about 1.3 on a camera/back/whatever with a 33x44mm sensor and about 1.1 only if used on a camera/with a 37x49mm sensor. There are cameras still out there that use 37x49mm sensors (the H4D/H5D-50 CCD example), but the format is largely ignored now as the shift has been from CCD to CMOS, and medium format CMOS sensors (only made by Sony) are only made in 33x44mp (50mp variety) and 40x54mm (100mp variety) sizes.

    On an X1D, the 24mm HCD (which would have to be used in conjunction with the h->x adaptor) would have a 1.3x crop factor relative to full frame medium format.

    Some of my statements could be inaccurate so someone can feel free to correct me if so
    -Todd

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by hcubell View Post
    I thought about many of the comments about the X1D and how this or that missing feature is a "deal breaker" when I read this column.
    The Visual Science Lab / Kirk Tuck: The "Meh" factor. Or why X is a "deal killer for me."
    Meh. Whatever.

    Just kidding. Excellent stuff and I agree.

    I don't quite understand how so many people expect a product that has been so deliberately designed to produce a certain outcome, as in a lighter weight MF quality product with leaf shutter lenses and smaller form factor vs a hybrid FrankenCamera. No it doesn't have a FPS nor adapters for your favorite Leica glass either. But as a small factor 50mp MF camera that so many of us have wanted for a long time I have to congratulate Hasselblad and I hope that they don't make the mistake of making the compromises required to add a FPS to the next version. I'm happy enough to invest in the HCD lenses so long as they perform as well as we hope.

    /rant off
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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    And now, for the man who has everything, we see the first fruits of the collaboration between Hasselblad and DJI: http://www.hasselblad.com/special-ap...5d-m600-bundle.
    Surprising that they didn't use the X1D for this, but it probably wasn't ready at the time they started working on it with DJI.
    hcubell
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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by hcubell View Post
    And now, for the man who has everything, we see the first fruits of the collaboration between Hasselblad and DJI: HasselbladÂ*A5D & DJI Matrice 600 Bundle.
    Surprising that they didn't use the X1D for this, but it probably wasn't ready at the time they started working on it with DJI.


    Good!

    You don't have to hitch a ride on a plane or a helicopter to do aerial photography anymore.

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    The new Phase One X1D concept?
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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevieraveon View Post
    The new Phase One X1D concept?
    Click image for larger version. 

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    That said, it's still as heavy as a brick compared to the Hasselblad. I agree though that they could do it although the sensor plane, assuming that it was in the body, would require new lenses or a front extension ring for existing phase lenses.

    Btw, personally I'm ok with my XF having the weight/density of a dumbbell.
    Ylem ...
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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    [QUOTE=Stevieraveon;699158]The new Phase One X1D concept?


    I am pretty sure Phase is working on a mirrorless body. No proof just seems like they'd have to

    The X1D could cause a LOT (me included) to jump ship.
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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Based on the time it took for them to bring the XF to market, I wouldn't hold my breath.

    Greg
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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    [QUOTE=DougDolde;699184]
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevieraveon View Post
    The new Phase One X1D concept?


    I am pretty sure Phase is working on a mirrorless body. No proof just seems like they'd have to

    The X1D could cause a LOT (me included) to jump ship.
    I would also assume that Phase One management is spending a considerable amount of time struggling with how to position a Phase One mirrorless camera in its product lineup. They have been very rigid about the pricing of their digital backs as premium products worthy of the highest prices in the industry. That marketing strategy has served them well, or so they apparently believe. Would they be willing to essentially blow up that approach and release a mirrorless Phase One camera for say $12,000 when a Phase XF body and IQ250 goes for $38,000? I don't see it. I also don't see what the market is in the future for 50-60 MP backs for $30,000+ apart from tech cam users, and that's a very niche market. I suppose Phase could develop a "full frame" MF mirrorless with the 100MP sensor in it and charge $40,000+ for it, but a big, heavy, mirrorless version of the XF with the same Phase lenses at $40,000 is not much of a game changer. Phase is also likely to be loath to cannibalize the sale of XF bodies. There are significant R&D costs that went into developing it. Not an issue for Hasselblad, as it developed the H series well over 15 years ago.
    This is going to be fascinating to watch. It's all good for photographers, or at least those that are brand agnostic and not fan boys.
    hcubell
    www.howardcubell.com
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  29. #829
    Senior Member DougDolde's Avatar
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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    True. With the 40-80mm lens on a mirrorless model it would still be very heavy.

    So it would seem that Phase would also come out with smaller lenses for a mirrorless model just like Blad is doing and maybe with an adapter for Mamiya/Phase lenses.

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    in this interview he says the X1D lenses are "ready for 100MP" ?

    http://photoscala.de/Artikel/Intervi...selblad-sehr-w





    Quote Originally Posted by tcdeveau View Post
    Not by itself. By itself, the lens is a 24mm and has no crop factor. The image circle/area of coverage is independent from the crop factor, and the crop factor is dependent on the size of the imaging device (sensor/film) behind the lens. Relative to full frame medium format (~40x54mm), the 24mm HCD (or any other lens) would have a crop factor of about 1.3 on a camera/back/whatever with a 33x44mm sensor and about 1.1 only if used on a camera/with a 37x49mm sensor. There are cameras still out there that use 37x49mm sensors (the H4D/H5D-50 CCD example), but the format is largely ignored now as the shift has been from CCD to CMOS, and medium format CMOS sensors (only made by Sony) are only made in 33x44mp (50mp variety) and 40x54mm (100mp variety) sizes.

    On an X1D, the 24mm HCD (which would have to be used in conjunction with the h->x adaptor) would have a 1.3x crop factor relative to full frame medium format.

    Some of my statements could be inaccurate so someone can feel free to correct me if so
    -Todd

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Yes, but he also says their are no current plans for a 100MP X camera. It's pretty easy. As long as their is no chip there is no option.

    I'm pretty sure we will see new medium format cameras from Hassi and Phase as soon as a new Sony sensor is there.

    I expect however, they actually have to sell some 100MP FF first as Sony certainly not gonna bother making a sensor for 1000 cameras only.

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    I had a hands on yesterday. One of the 2 cameras on display had a new sticky grip which was quite nice and to me way better than the "first" leatherette grip. It makes it possible for better use as a street carry around camera with the 45 lens attached.

    I own a Leica Q and even though the stats for the X1D's EVF are less than the Q, but I did not have a problem with using the EVF and my reaction was that it worked just fine and it seemed large too. I was told that LV and FP will be included on deliveries which could begin in August as they are starting to receive small amounts of sensors from Sony in Sweden.

    The shutter on the 90 and 45 were OK, not loud. I liked the AF/MF button. UI easy and huge as most have reported. The battery seems very large and releases like the Leica S. The discussions for future lenses were beyond the 30 which was a given yesterday. Will it be a zoom? That seemed like a logical next move to some.

    Latest body had more/better sealing at least around SD card door. I did not remove a lens to examine the lens sealing o-ring.

    After having owned a Pentax 645Z and liking it immensely, this is a well done camera. The small size is intriguing. Someone had a Sony 6300 on the table and I was amazed at how the X1D's footprint was not that much larger than the 6300.

    As for earlier comments about Phase One's future pricing on a new camera, keep in mind an XF body is currently priced at US$9k along with an 80mm LS lens ($3300 if bought separately) and prism VF ($2500 if bought separately) or $6500 for the body without lens and PVF. It must be noted that the XF needs a DB to perform so that is not the end of expenditures if one buys the XF. So can Phase compete with HB if they were to make mirrorless camera? Sure, but if they price it North of $10k, IMHO it will limit sales.
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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Hi Al,
    I was there too. I had my Pen-F with me and although the X1D is small compared to the H6D, it dwarfed my camera. I believe my 25mm prime could fit perpendicularly in the lens hood of the 45mm lens!

    I have posted my thoughts on this camera over at MFMSociety.com. I invite everyone here to pop over and leave comments and thoughts.

    http://www.mfmsociety.com/2016/07/ha...-hands-on.html
    Carlos Echenique | Carlos Echenique Photography | Sony 𝛼7 II - 2 Sony FE Zooms - Lots of Canon FD Glass | Olympus Pen-F - M.Zuiko 17mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 25mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 45mm f/1.8, Rokinon 12mm f/2 NCS

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    Senior Member ErikKaffehr's Avatar
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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Hi,

    It is also about lenses. Present H-series and Phase One lenses are made for a large sensor. A lens optimised for 44x33mm will be shorter in focal length and smaller. It also needs to be sharper as the smaller format requires more magnification.

    Hasselblad may have pulled the rabbit out of the hat on this…

    Best regards
    Erik


    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    I had a hands on yesterday. One of the 2 cameras on display had a new sticky grip which was quite nice and to me way better than the "first" leatherette grip. It makes it possible for better use as a street carry around camera with the 45 lens attached.

    I own a Leica Q and even though the stats for the X1D's EVF are less than the Q, but I did not have a problem with using the EVF and my reaction was that it worked just fine and it seemed large too. I was told that LV and FP will be included on deliveries which could begin in August as they are starting to receive small amounts of sensors from Sony in Sweden.

    The shutter on the 90 and 45 were OK, not loud. I liked the AF/MF button. UI easy and huge as most have reported. The battery seems very large and releases like the Leica S. The discussions for future lenses were beyond the 30 which was a given yesterday. Will it be a zoom? That seemed like a logical next move to some.

    Latest body had more/better sealing at least around SD card door. I did not remove a lens to examine the lens sealing o-ring.

    After having owned a Pentax 645Z and liking it immensely, this is a well done camera. The small size is intriguing. Someone had a Sony 6300 on the table and I was amazed at how the X1D's footprint was not that much larger than the 6300.

    As for earlier comments about Phase One's future pricing on a new camera, keep in mind an XF body is currently priced at US$9k along with an 80mm LS lens ($3300 if bought separately) and prism VF ($2500 if bought separately) or $6500 for the body without lens and PVF. It must be noted that the XF needs a DB to perform so that is not the end of expenditures if one buys the XF. So can Phase compete with HB if they were to make mirrorless camera? Sure, but if they price it North of $10k, IMHO it will limit sales.

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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by ErikKaffehr View Post
    .
    Hasselblad may have pulled the rabbit out of the hat on this…

    Best regards
    Erik
    I think so too. Phase one could compete but I'm sure that they don't want to undermine their existing platform, digital back pricing and customer base by trying to compete on price.

    I work in a space where our software is expensive ($m's ) but provides value. We don't drop our prices to compete with lower priced competitors for a few reasons.

    First, selling based purely on price is a race to the bottom - nobody wins long term.

    Second, you should sell the value of your solution. If it doesn't exist, your future customers will know and not buy.

    Third, you need to show innovation and vision. Customers commit to a long term relationship ultimately and for this there needs to be some shared vision to support buying in to your solution or product.

    It's as simple as that. I could add more bullets but I think that the vast majority of people will understand.
    Ylem ...
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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    I think so too. Phase one could compete but I'm sure that they don't want to undermine their existing platform, digital back pricing and customer base by trying to compete on price.

    I work in a space where our software is expensive ($m's ) but provides value. We don't drop our prices to compete with lower priced competitors for a few reasons.

    First, selling based purely on price is a race to the bottom - nobody wins long term.

    Second, you should sell the value of your solution. If it doesn't exist, your future customers will know and not buy.

    Third, you need to show innovation and vision. Customers commit to a long term relationship ultimately and for this there needs to be some shared vision to support buying in to your solution or product.

    It's as simple as that. I could add more bullets but I think that the vast majority of people will understand.
    Graham

    I agree to what you say , but that still leaves one question for me . "A slogan is meant to turn people on to like and buy the product " . Right ? ? ?
    So what does the HASSELBLAD slogan mean : CREATE TO INSPIRE .

    Should it not better read : CREATED TO INSPIRE .

    Can you or anyone else please explain ? ? ?
    Regards . Jürgen .
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  37. #837
    Senior Member danlindberg's Avatar
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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by jotloob View Post
    So what does the HASSELBLAD slogan mean : CREATE TO INSPIRE .
    'You' create to inspire 'others'
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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    To me, Create To Inspire, is outwardly focused on the photographer. Created To Inspire seems to be inwardly focused on the camera and the company itself and not on the photographer. We are all taught not to brag, and it seems that Hasselblad is following that teaching. Having no idea that is the case, this is just my take on the question presented. And, the subtlety of the message appeals to me and ultimately to Hasselblad products.

    Greg

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    Senior Member Ed Hurst's Avatar
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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by tcdeveau View Post
    You're right, I should've been clearer about format. I was only thinking of the 33x44mm format or the Leica S format. The Hasselblad HCD wides (24mm, 28mm) are not designed for a larger FF sensor like the new 40mm x 53.4mm 100mp sensor anyway, nor is the Pentax 25mm (I could be wrong about the Pentax).

    Just on the point about the Pentax 25mm, the answer is it depends! When the 25mm was first launched, it was a DFA lens which indeed does cover full frame 645 (and as a result is compatible with the film Pentax 645 bodies). People experienced some problems with fringing, etc. and the lens was relaunched as a DA lens only covering the crop sensor in the 645D/Z bodies (i.e. 33x44mm). The lens is largely the same, but has a longer built-in hood and may have other minor differences. So if you have one of the original DFA lenses, it does cover FF 645 (with the shortcomings that caused it to be redesigned); if you have the DA flavour (as I do), then it does not cover FF.

    I realise this is an off-shoot of the discussion, but just wanted to clarify that point in passing.

    Ed
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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    It's marketing. I wouldn't read too much into it.

    "Look at that camera. Its marketing says 'Focusing on the Essential'. THIS camera says 'Create to Inspire'. I'm definitely going with this one."

    I could as well say "If they said 'the Essentials', that would imply the camera itself, but by saying 'the Essential', they include the whole spirit of photography." (If you've ever been to a Seder and listened to the Talmudic arguments, this will sound familiar.)

    The X1D has a LOT going for it, and it's slowed down my shopping in other systems, but I'll wait until I use one before I form any opinion. Everything changes when you use a system.

    --Matt
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  41. #841
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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by MGrayson View Post
    It's marketing. I wouldn't read too much into it.
    ...
    The X1D has a LOT going for it, and it's slowed down my shopping in other systems, but I'll wait until I use one before I form any opinion. Everything changes when you use a system.
    Yup. Although I like both the "Focus on the Essentials" and "Create to Inspire" slogans. :-)

    G

  42. #842
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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    I'm thinking the first shipment of cameras will be soon enough and there will be lots of information (411) about all the previous discussed issues of the system. From what I have learned so far the firmware updates are much needed to make the camera preform excellent but right now its turning out worthy images without issues. I also remember someone stating that the camera was really easy to get used to shooting after a week with it. I think many people will be surprised with the camera and the first firmware update surprised for the better.
    Seems they have change the grip material already that's a sign to me that Hasselblad is striving for perfection and ultimate satisfaction for their customers and that's good to hear!!!
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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Yes, that new grip was very nice to hold.
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    Post Hasselblad X1D XC Lens

    With the introduction of this new model the MF lens become lighter and small...



    But everything have a price, the relative illumination XC (yellow) versus the HC-50 II (white)
    looking at the graph they seems identical... also the XC graph seem better...

    Better if You don't look at the scale... in fact the XC relative illumination scale ends at around 28mm... looking at the other lens size for the 50mm that's the closest to this 45mm F3,5 it seem in the time the glass is becoming little little..

    Finally the XC lens have it's advantage in the price ! with half of the glass and half of the weight, it has half of the price.

    Who knows if it has also half of IQ ??

    Domenico.
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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by bab View Post
    .
    Seems they have change the grip material already that's a sign to me that Hasselblad is striving for perfection and ultimate satisfaction for their customers and that's good to hear!!!
    Im thinking that they are still finalizing the production version. The preview cameras were a long way from finished.
    Ylem ...

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    Im thinking that they are still finalizing the production version. The preview cameras were a long way from finished.
    It's interesting though that Hasselblad has chosen to demo the camera widely in its pre-production state. That shows some confidence in their initial attempt and a genuine interest in getting feedback before volume production begins. I don't expect to see the production version until September at the earliest.

    BTW, I had to Google "Shinrin-yoku" before replying.
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  47. #847
    Senior Member Joe Colson's Avatar
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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    The latest shipment date from B&H is August 30:



    That makes more sense given the reported state of the demo pre-production firmware.
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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    I'm signed up to go to a demo in my city in two weeks. Looking forward to getting a hands on!

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Colson View Post
    The latest shipment date from B&H is August 30:



    That makes more sense given the reported state of the demo pre-production firmware.
    Did you click the big blue button, Joe?
    www.douglaswoodphotography.com
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  50. #850
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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by dwood View Post
    Did you click the big blue button, Joe?
    Yep, on June 23.
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