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Hasselblad X1D

Godfrey

Well-known member
Okay, I've never used a mirrorless camera, nor even a Leica rangefinder camera. My experience has always been with SLRs and DSLRs, namely Bronica GS-1, Rollei 6008, and various Nikons.

This may seem like a very novice question, but I'll pose it anyway. Is there a steep learning curve with a mirrorless camera? On a wedding, will I be wishing for something that my DSLR does that a mirrorless does not?

For those of you with your Sony A7s and Fuji XT-1s, please share your knowledge and experiences with me, especially in a fast-paced environment like a wedding or similar event.

Maybe stupid questions, but I am wanting to like the idea of the X1D, I just don't know what I don't know. I had been saving my pennies for a used Leica S2, but this may be a better option.

I thank you in advance for sharing with me your thoughts and opinions.

Rick
Rick,

There's basically no learning curve at all. You use a mirrorless camera just like an SLR. It has more capabilities in terms of what the viewfinder can do, and has a slightly different set of strengths and weaknesses, that's all.

For something like a wedding or newsworthy event, I find there's virtually no difference at all between using a DSLR and using any mirrorless camera. Whether the mirrorless camera is a Sony A7, a Fuji X, an Olympus E-M1, a Leica SL, or whatever, and the DSLR is (take your pick) Nikon, Canon, Pentax, etc ... the differences are between what specific camera capabilities are, not because of the viewfinder design. With a mirrorless camera, you see the image as it will be captured, live, and can make exposure and focusing adjustments that place your exposures with more precision and accuracy. You can also set up the viewfinder to give you more or less information, different kinds of focusing aids, etc. You can view at taking aperture without the viewfinder going dark, for example, and really get a good look at the actual DoF you'll get. You can set the exposure system to indicate where highlights will be blown out and where shadow values will be lost in some cameras (Olympus is particularly good at this). You can magnify the view to obtain exacting critical focus even with an extreme wide angle stopped down.

Of course, there are some things that DSLRs have an advantage for. A mirrorless camera shows you an electronic view of what the sensor has just seen (note past tense) where a DSLR shows you an optical view of what the sensor will see (note future tense). This means that you have to adjust your understanding of what's in the viewfinder: with a DSLR, you're always projecting a little into the future whereas with a mirrorless camera, you're always seeing a bit behind the moment. The difference is small for single-frame still photos but there—you have to learn how to anticipate The Moment a little differently.

That difference gets magnified in sequence capture and this is where the DSLR has its biggest advantage: for sequence captures of fast moving subjects, you are always seeing a little flip frame animation of what you're going to capture a tiny bit ahead of the capture. With a mirrorless camera, many of the viewfinders cannot keep up with the capture rate at maximum speed so you only get to see an occasional frame of what was in the viewfinder when the capture occurred. For those shooting fast moving, motion critical work, a DSLR remains the best tool.

There are also differences in things like autofocus system responsiveness and control, and all the plethora of AF system modes. This is a highly volatile area of development, debate, and it's also highly dependent upon exactly what sort of subject matter you shoot, what specific camera and lens you use. I use AF very little of the time so I'll just pass over it, what I have to say there is trivial and likely not credible to those who depend on AF and things like follow-focus capability, etc.

For the kind of subject matter that I shoot (people, parties, still life, landscape, motor racing occasionally, urban street, macro, night scenes), I've found a mirrorless camera like the Leica SL or Olympus E-M1 blows away any of the DSLRs I've used by a healthy bit. The viewfinder flexibility and the precision with which I can set focus and exposure is the key. For what I use a DSLR for, these mirrorless cameras simply do a better job.

I'd love an X1D, but I already have the Leica SL and a complement of lenses that covers all my needs. And the quality is already more than just satisfying so ... I just can't rationalize spending the money given the initial X1D lens offerings*at this moment. When the ultra-wide lens I'd like comes about—then I'm going to be in trouble. Because ultra-wide with medium format DoF dynamics, resolution, and Hasselblad SWC class lens quality will present a nearly irresistible draw.

G

PS: The term "mirrorless" always bugs me. Identifying a class of things by saying what they lack is idiotic. Do we refer to our automobiles as "horseless carriages" anymore? It's just not a good way to identify or describe things. The right term is elusive, but "lens interchangeable, view electronic" or LIVE camera would be a better term. Of course, others once said that in a different order to create the EVIL label ... that was snarkiness at work. But "mirrorless" is common parlance for the present so I'll put up with it.
 

MGrayson

Subscriber and Workshop Member
Why no C1? Anyone have any idea? Eleanor
C1 (being a product of Phase One) never has, and has said that they never will, support their Medium Format competitors. If they ever change their mind, the'll get me back as a customer in a heartbeat, but I won't be bullied away from a camera system I prefer.

--Matt
 

jerome_m

Member
So to clarify, there is possibly the plan where you could take the x1d body, add an H adaptor, add the hts, then add an H lens?
Yes, of course.

For something that would equate to a field of view of roughly 30-35mm in 35mm terms, what amount of front rise and fall would this hts set up give? I am trying to see if this could be usable for some architecture to avoid keystoning.
Then you would use the HCD28 on the HTS. It will correspond to a focal length of 42mm and have about the same field of view as a 33mm lens on the X1d. You will be able to rise of fall 17mm.

I don't quite understand the negative posts about the HTS, it actually works quite well.
 
I thought about this last night and not sure my thinking is correct but let's see what you all think. The HTS is a 1.5 crop factor considered on a full frame MF back. Now with a crop sensor is it still 1.5 times factor. It's a smaller sensor. I'm thinking maybe wrongly here it maybe a 1.3.

Was I drinking to much when I thought of this, maybe. Lol
You would have to get the 24 HCD which corresponds to a 19mm FF FoV. With the adapter, we are talking about 28mm FF FoV f/7,2, Not that attractive, at least for me … and for the price point I could also get a CVF 50c, Alpa/Arca, Rodenstock Set-up.
 

msadat

Member
i am not sure this system was designed to use with hts. this is digital mamiya 7, thats it. look at and plan to use it for what it is designed for.


Yes, of course.



Then you would use the HCD28 on the HTS. It will correspond to a focal length of 42mm and have about the same field of view as a 33mm lens on the X1d. You will be able to rise of fall 17mm.

I don't quite understand the negative posts about the HTS, it actually works quite well.
 

jerome_m

Member
i am not sure this system was designed to use with hts.
This system with the announced HC lens adapter is just like an H6D-50c without the flipping mirror but with a built-in live view focus ability, which would be very convenient with the HTS (no AF with the HTS on the H6D). It would make little sense for Hasselblad to not support the HTS.
 

hcubell

Well-known member
Re: Hasselblad X1

As others have posted they will never support Hassy file formats - but that would never stop me from a Hassy purchase. I'm sure Phocus has the ability to produce a very nice file.

Victor
The newest version of Phocus is much improved. It is a fairly simple to operate raw file converter, and produces quite beautiful color with Hasselblad files. You can also now make local adjustments but only with the basic tools. There is no catalog or (thankfully) Sessions. You just go to the folder where the files you want to work on are stored and open it.
My one concern is that the highlight recovery and shadow fill tools do not seem nearly as capable as those tools in C1 and LR. This is with my older Hasselblad files from 2006-2009. The results with newer files using the 50mp Sony sensor could possibly be different.
 

Mr.Gale

Member
The thing is it is not practical. The hts is 1.5 crop on a crop sensor so the movements will be kind of limited and you defo loose WA shots possibility. So in all logic, it is useless.

If the XD platform meet success I think they will probably make a dedicated TS tool for this camera OR a TS lens or two (more easy).

Just my wild guess.
I guess I don't understand what you just said. I have the HTS that I use on my H4D-50 (sensor size = 49x37) and I think it works great, what I don't like is the widest lens is the 24mm 4.8 becomes a 37mm 7.5 (and higher for a smaller sensor). My understanding is the optics in the HTS were designed to compensate for lens extension so the lenses will still focus at infinity and also give a larger image circle. The other thing I don't like is you can't do tilt and shift at the same time.
Don't confuse me with anyone that knows what they are talking about but I think it is well designed and coming from 4x5, the movements are very useful. Also. to compensate for the loss of a real wide lens, I can take three verticals and stitch them together in PS. Here is a link to the hasselblad datasheet:http://static.hasselblad.com/2014/11/uk_hts_datasheet_v9.pdf

Mr.Gale
 

Hulyss Bowman

Active member
The hts is a fine tool but everyone know how good is the 17 TS... If hasselblad want to keep the "portable" factor they are committed to craft a TS lens for this platform, imho. The XD is a glitch of the future of MF. Hts and all will be obsolete.
 

KeithL

Well-known member
The hts is a fine tool but everyone know how good is the 17 TS... If hasselblad want to keep the "portable" factor they are committed to craft a TS lens for this platform, imho. The XD is a glitch of the future of MF. Hts and all will be obsolete.
Glitch is another word for problem, hopefully you meant glimpse. ;)
 
Re: Important notice

Hasselblad (world) are just bored by the forums but very attentive too. There is a new law in Europe as well in US who will permit Hassy to pursue people or moral persons bashing wrongly the hassy products or making any kind of defamatory posts about hassy products. It is new and will be applied. Hearing the guy himself... I trust them. In a way, I completely agree with this principle.
Could you please give a link for further reading? UK has just voted to leave the EU so it would be interesting to see the scope of the "new law".

The results are so far : The H6 and the XD-1. I don't see any flaw yet in those systems.
For the X1D, the crop factor could be a "flaw" because it can be bashed and the purpose of showing off sensor size can be defeated. No FPS, no PDAF, no fast lenses either.

I agree that the H6D-100C can be a very successful product and the X1D is indeed a very good innovation, but nothing can be perfect.
 
i cant help thinking what sonys version of this camera would look like? probably not as nice to look at and the usual horrific menu system but face detection, on-chip AF and a set of lenses made by zeiss.
if they see the X1D succeed they may want a slice of that pie. its certainly well within their technological capability.
Agreed. This is the main concern from friends around me. They are not willing to buy into this X1D system unless Hasselblad can secure an agreement with Sony that Sony is not going to make their own mirrorless with these Sony sensors. History of the "Lunar" just added more concern into this.
 

cerett

Member
It has got to be less than 60mm.

The camera registry of Hasselblad H System = 61.63mm
At that length, I find it difficult to imagine using it with their two excellent zoom lenses (own both). Not sure the mount will support the weight. I wonder if Hasselblad has tested this?
 
I saw the live broadcast, and actually it's the first time I've seen the CEO Perry speak (I've only read stuff earlier). As he's a man that's been working with luxury brands I've been a bit worried that the Lunacy would not be over. I see that the luxury profile is there, the camera is "Handmade in Sweden" (etched into the camera body, looks a bit silly to me, but I can live with it), and it has a special designed bag, probably expensive (haven't seen it yet).
IMG_0705.JPG

Can we sue them for lying about "Handmade in Sweden" if it's indeed found to be wrong? Given the history of Fuji-blad, one of my friends speculated that even parts of the motherboard *could* be made in Japan. The operating system looks a bit "Sony-style". It would be interesting to watch lensrentals.com publishing a tear-down of the camera. Last time the fun was the Made-in-China ADC of the Canon 5DSR.

The very much try to build on the brand, they stress very much that they really make it themselves, invited the press to their factory (like Leica does) etc. So now I see how Perry's background fits in there, and I'm no longer worried that it will go the Lunacy way again. And I don't think we'll see a new Ferrari edition...

I never like it when cameras are made luxury items, but the softer level of luxury Hasselblad has now in their X1D product feels fine by me, and actually have some taste to it.
I like the idea of making cameras as luxury items. Technology would eventually advance which makes the camera obsolete. It would be great if you can keep it inside your bookshelf as a nice decoration instead of selling it for ridiculously low price. Leica knows and has implemented this well.

However the NASA pictures just reminds me how NASA abandoned Hasselblad and went for Nikon instead. This is called technology advancement - Nikon has faster lenses and much earlier access to CMOS sensors than Hasselblad so they won the place in NASA.

Sensor size. 44x33/50MP was expected and I think it's a good choice. 54x41 is not reasonable for a product at this price range and the desire to make it small and light. For the long-term future it would be nice with 51x41 mirrorless, but I think that is the time when the H series will ditch the mirror. Yet a new mount could be made by then.
Not sure whether the new mount is capable of a 54x40 fullframe sensor or not. It would be great if they have planned ahead for that possibility.

If it's for me? No, I'm a tech cam guy. But I think it will be for many and that it will bring Hasselblad forward, and I also think it's a great and new contribution to the medium format segment. "Game changer" is always a big word, but compared to what I've seen throughout the years from various companies when this term is used, this is one of the better times.
It is indeed a game changer to me as I've always been a fan of small, compact and portable electronic devices. They've done a great job putting everything inside such a small and light camera body which even surpasses the Sony.
 

cerett

Member
C1 (being a product of Phase One) never has, and has said that they never will, support their Medium Format competitors. If they ever change their mind, the'll get me back as a customer in a heartbeat, but I won't be bullied away from a camera system I prefer.

--Matt
Off subject for just a moment. I started out using a P1 back on an H2. Then I ran into firmware issues and the camera and back simply not effectively communicating with each other. To my enormous frustration, I could not get any answers/solutions from either company. At that point, I decided to go with Hasselblad's closed system and have not looked back since.
 
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