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Thread: Hasselblad X1D

  1. #1051
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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Godfrey, I had that camera for a number of years! I called it "Yellow Bird" and took it with me while visiting various exotic Caribbean locations. It brings fond memories and a smile to my face every time I see one. Thanks for posting it.
    I'd really like one of them, just for the fun factor.

    Speaking of fun factor, my head is leaning to the "buy a CFV-50c digital back" tune lately, rather than buying an X1D. I've got the SWC, the 500CM and 50, 80, 120, and 150 lenses, and three A12 backs, three finders, ground glass back for the SWC, etc etc. A digital back would make all that lovely gear MUCH more useful, and more likely to be used.

    Sigh.

    G

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Hi Marc,

    I appreciate your posting, as always.

    When some interesting thing arrives I always check it again my needs. What benefits it offers and what limitations it has. So when I say that it does not match my needs it is not a negative. Very few cameras match my needs. I think it is a honest way to say that I am no potential buyer.

    Yes, the leaf shutter is an advantage. Hasselblad started with an FP shutter (in the F1600 model) but the classical Hasselblad was the 500C. There was also 200F series with FP shutters and focal plane lenses. The H-models are leaf shutter.

    I don't really see what is so bad about the Sony A7rII skipping the PC connector. Most photographers use strobes with remotes. Incidentally, the X1D also skips the PC connector and has Nikon compatible flash shoe, as far as I know.

    I am not so enthusiastic about the Sony, except it fulfils my perceived needs. Mostly I just use custom buttons for things (pretty much any function can be put on any button) and assign some functions to the (Fn) menu. That said, sometimes miss shots while struggling with unwanted features. In which case I just say "Sony Engineering!"

    From the Ove Bengtsson interview I gather that he sees the X1D as a base for the future. I would not be that surprised if they added an FP shutter on some future model.

    I am pretty sure that Hasselblad is quite happy about the way the X1D has been received and considers all feedback from the market.

    Regarding the positives, I am quite enthusiastic about Hasselblad making an EVF mirrorless design, and a real Hasselblad at that, keeping much of the Hasselblad DNA.

    Something I like is that they designed a few really nice and compact lenses for the X1D. Those lenses are small, but have quite moderate maximum apertures. The moderate maximum aperture is not an issue for me, as I am not that much in that bookeh thing. So that is a "Positive" for me.

    How well do the older HC lenses work with the X1D? Anyone tried? Conventional wisdom says that CDAF needs very fast focusing movements. They should work well with magnified live view. Have you tested magnified live view on the X1D?

    Peaking may be interesting, too. Personally, I don't trust peaking based on the Sonys I have(*). But someone may develop peaking that works well.

    A small reflection… There used to be a guy at a company called Steve Jobs, that guy had a good nose for things that sell and more or less create a market of their own. The X1D may be a product like that or be the future platform for Hasselblad.

    Best regards
    Erik

    (*) I actually use peaking a lot when using tilts. Focus at center and tilt until "everything peaks". After that I go back with magnified LV.


    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Erik, you have been excruciatingly comprehensive in detailing why this camera is not for you. "Not for you" doesn't necessarily translate in to "Negatives" for everyone, and things you see as lacking others may see as "Positives". ...
    Last edited by ErikKaffehr; 9th September 2016 at 22:53. Reason: Clarify

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    I'd really like one of them, just for the fun factor.

    Speaking of fun factor, my head is leaning to the "buy a CFV-50c digital back" tune lately, rather than buying an X1D. I've got the SWC, the 500CM and 50, 80, 120, and 150 lenses, and three A12 backs, three finders, ground glass back for the SWC, etc etc. A digital back would make all that lovely gear MUCH more useful, and more likely to be used.

    Sigh.

    G
    Thought you were my X1D buddy. Why don't you sell all that stuff and join me on the forefront of camera innovation!

    Yesterday I attended my second X1D demo. Obviously not much to add. I only really went there to try out using the ergonomics of using the AF-D button to unlock the focus point and then move it with the control wheels. This is not implemented yet of course, but I still wanted to try it out. I'd say it is certainly doable, but at the same time it is pretty much the worst implementation of moving the focus point on any modern camera with a joystick being the best. Pretty sure I will get used to it and it won't slow me down too much though. For still-life, architecture and landscape it is not a concern of course, but with portraits it would be. A tiny one.
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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Erik, you have been excruciatingly comprehensive in detailing why this camera is not for you. "Not for you" doesn't necessarily translate in to "Negatives" for everyone, and things you see as lacking others may see as "Positives".
    Indeed people have different needs. I already said that Erik's list of criteria is not the same as mine, maybe I should explain a bit more.

    The listed criteria were: "Better DR, Better resolution, Can use Tilt&Shift lenses, Long telephoto and zooms, Ultrawides, Can use older lenses with tilt (and shift), Can use Otus lenses and other speciality glass". To me, the list looks aligned with what sites like dpreview or dxo test. I think it is what the majority of the market wants and catered for by offers in 24x36 format.

    I don't care for extra DR, I do need high resolution (I want to print very big), I am satisfied with the HTS for tilt and shift, I am satisfied by the HCD28 as far as ultrawides go, I rarely use long telephotos or zooms. I don't want specialty glass and doubt that Otus lenses would give better results on 24x36 than my HC50 does on a larger sensor.

    On the other hand, I value consistency across the optical presence (as you do). I want a large, bright viewfinder, preferably optical. I want accurate focus where I want but do not need it to be fast, the true focus system is perfect for me. I use very few functions in my camera, so any menu system is good (I can tolerate a poor menu system for the few occasions where I need a special function). I like the colours of Hasselblad cameras very much.

    With there criteria, my old H4D-50 is better than the new X1D. I would like the X1D, of course, because it is smaller and haptics are quite good (I tested a pre-production model), but reason tells me that it is less adapted to my needs than what I have. If I were to change, I would probably get a H6D-100 and the only reason for me would be the higher resolution.
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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Erik,

    The reason I was disappointed that the A7 cameras did not have a simple PC connection is because many social/event/corporate photographers, including myself, use radio triggered off-camera strobes as key ... and an on-camera TTL speed-light in the hot-shoe for fill ... this provides maximum roaming ability at functions or weddings. If the hot-shoe is occupied by a radio sender then the option of a TTL speed-light for fill is eliminated. The PC connection allows placement of the radio sender on a grip bracket hard-wired to the camera. Every Nikon, Canon I've owned, and even the Sony A900 and A99 SLT, allowed me to work this way. (See example attached using this "Directional Strobe Key/TTL Speed-Light Fill" technique with a Sony A99).

    Not until just recently have some 3rd party speed-lights been made with the newer multi-function Sony foot ... and a few, like the big assed Nissan Di700A, have a off-camera PC terminal built-into the speed-light (which finally solved my problem). However, A7 camera compatibly sized speed-lights have no PC terminal, nor do any of the Sony speed-lights.

    Since the X1D uses Nikon flash protocols, it remains to be seen whether their proprietary off-camera terminal can be used to trigger strobes. The good thing about Nikon is the vast range of choices when solving lighting configuration problems. Nikon and Canon always get all the cool innovations. For one example, the Profoto AIR Nikon Transceiver provides TTL options when using Profoto AIR lighting (which I use). To date there is no Sony version.

    Also, as a last resort, when all else fails (i.e., radio senders), if you have a PC terminal you can hard-wire to the strobe ... which is why strobes come with long PC cords. I never leave for a job without one. With the A7 cameras I have to also remember to take a PC terminal for the hot-shoe.

    In my experience, 3.2 and 3.5 max apertures for MFD are pretty decent. The XCD-90/3.2 focuses down to 2.3', which at f/3.2 will be pretty shallow DOF and should provide nice bokeh depending on distance to background. Same for the XCD-45/3.5 which focuses as close as 1.3' which isn't too bad.

    When you say that you have missed shots due to Sony's mind-boggling mess of an interface, I can only say I agree. So have I, and I cannot afford to miss when shooting events or weddings For the way I work, Sony A7s have turned out to be a mistake, and Nikon/Canon DSLRs out-perform them in every way that matters to me. The Sony A99 was also a lot better camera IMHO. I bought the A7 hype, and now am stuck with it. Fortunately I'm phase out of weddings and events, so it is less of an issue than it was a while ago.

    - Marc

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Hi Marc,

    Thanks for explaining… always learning from your postings!

    I have learned that Minolta/Sony always calls their top model something with 9. I had Minolta 900, 9Xi and there was a Dynax 9. With Sony there was the Alpha 900 and the Alpha 99. The niner models have PC-connectors the model below do not. The niners are "pro models" but I don't think any Sony is a pro system, really. They are high end amateur cameras that often are adequate for the job.

    The main force causing me to switch models was live view for focusing. The other reason I switched to the A7#? is that I feel that the future belongs to mirrorless.

    Being able to use tilts was essential for me, wanted to have that capability since 25-30 years. I actually have a Flexbody for Hasselblad, and it worked fine in the living room, that sometimes serves as studio, but was not workable outdoors.

    Just to say, I don't know if you have considered this, but on a camera using EFSC (Electronic First Shutter Curtain) the shutter doesn't close before exposure, it is just doing a sweeping reset on the sensor. The sweep is adjusted to the speed of the second curtain, so at short shutter times the reset and the second curtain travel in sync.

    So, the shutter is never opened physically before exposure but needs to be rewound after exposure.

    The menu system between the A7?# and the Alpha 99 are very similar, but the A7?# has more options. My major issue is "You can't do that in this mode". Why can't I do it and what mode am I in? It is like my favourite operating system, UNIX. You can ask your Unix 'who am I' or 'whoami' and get two different answers.

    But, I don't think I would go back to the Alpha 99, it feels old or clumsy.

    I know Hans Kruse, a Landscape photographer arranging workshops in Italy and Scotland, on the latest workshop he had his Canon 5DsR and I had my A7rII. So he tried my A7rII with his Canon gear and I checked out his Canon. We sort of discussed about the system and I think we pretty much agreed that there was little reason for Canon users to switch to Sony.

    On the other hand, the A7rII works for me and does everything I ask from it pretty well. I use it with Canon lenses, mostly, I am not sure I like Sony's lens programme. The three Canon lenses I have (1-35/4L, 24/3.5 TSE LII, and 24-105/4L) are excellent at best and quite OK mostly, and they give me some shift and full tilt between 16 and 105 mm. Canon would not give me that capability, replacing the mirror box with a T&S adapter is what is making the Sony so flexible.

    Best regards
    Erik




    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Erik,

    The reason I was disappointed that the A7 cameras did not have a simple PC connection is because many social/event/corporate photographers, including myself, use radio triggered off-camera strobes as key ... and an on-camera TTL speed-light in the hot-shoe for fill ... this provides maximum roaming ability at functions or weddings. If the hot-shoe is occupied by a radio sender then the option of a TTL speed-light for fill is eliminated. The PC connection allows placement of the radio sender on a grip bracket hard-wired to the camera. Every Nikon, Canon I've owned, and even the Sony A900 and A99 SLT, allowed me to work this way. (See example attached using this "Directional Strobe Key/TTL Speed-Light Fill" technique with a Sony A99).

    Not until just recently have some 3rd party speed-lights been made with the newer multi-function Sony foot ... and a few, like the big assed Nissan Di700A, have a off-camera PC terminal built-into the speed-light (which finally solved my problem). However, A7 camera compatibly sized speed-lights have no PC terminal, nor do any of the Sony speed-lights.

    Since the X1D uses Nikon flash protocols, it remains to be seen whether their proprietary off-camera terminal can be used to trigger strobes. The good thing about Nikon is the vast range of choices when solving lighting configuration problems. Nikon and Canon always get all the cool innovations. For one example, the Profoto AIR Nikon Transceiver provides TTL options when using Profoto AIR lighting (which I use). To date there is no Sony version.

    Also, as a last resort, when all else fails (i.e., radio senders), if you have a PC terminal you can hard-wire to the strobe ... which is why strobes come with long PC cords. I never leave for a job without one. With the A7 cameras I have to also remember to take a PC terminal for the hot-shoe.

    In my experience, 3.2 and 3.5 max apertures for MFD are pretty decent. The XCD-90/3.2 focuses down to 2.3', which at f/3.2 will be pretty shallow DOF and should provide nice bokeh depending on distance to background. Same for the XCD-45/3.5 which focuses as close as 1.3' which isn't too bad.

    When you say that you have missed shots due to Sony's mind-boggling mess of an interface, I can only say I agree. So have I, and I cannot afford to miss when shooting events or weddings For the way I work, Sony A7s have turned out to be a mistake, and Nikon/Canon DSLRs out-perform them in every way that matters to me. The Sony A99 was also a lot better camera IMHO. I bought the A7 hype, and now am stuck with it. Fortunately I'm phase out of weddings and events, so it is less of an issue than it was a while ago.

    - Marc

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Lundqvist View Post
    Thought you were my X1D buddy. Why don't you sell all that stuff and join me on the forefront of camera innovation!

    Yesterday I attended my second X1D demo. Obviously not much to add. I only really went there to try out using the ergonomics of using the AF-D button to unlock the focus point and then move it with the control wheels. This is not implemented yet of course, but I still wanted to try it out. I'd say it is certainly doable, but at the same time it is pretty much the worst implementation of moving the focus point on any modern camera with a joystick being the best. Pretty sure I will get used to it and it won't slow me down too much though. For still-life, architecture and landscape it is not a concern of course, but with portraits it would be. A tiny one.
    The fat lady hasn't sung yet. :-)

    But ... The X1D is rather close to the Leica SL in overall ergonomics, feel, and usage model. My SL kit is pretty extensive already and I like the camera a great deal, so I'm not letting that go. The big sensor and a short enough lens could tip the balance, but that will take a while to surface. Meanwhile, I will not sell the SWC nor the 500CM—I just like them too much, have a bunch of lenses that I like for the 500CM, and I'd lose too much money in the transition. Putting a digital back on them, even if its format is different and thus creates a different camera entirely, expands the value of my 'investment' and makes it more useful. And I only have so much money to spend...

    We shall see. I don't need camera innovation so much as I need to make photographs.

    I suspect that the focus point targeting on the X1D would be fine for me. I only rarely move the focus point anyway, just like I only rarely use autofocus. These things are amongst my least important criteria in assessing a camera's suitability for my use. They're nice conveniences that I occasionally take advantage of, nothing more.

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Hi Godfrey,

    Have you checked magnified live view? How do you choose the point to magnify? Double click? How does it work?

    You will need it for manual focus…

    Best regards
    Erik




    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    The fat lady hasn't sung yet. :-)

    But ... The X1D is rather close to the Leica SL in overall ergonomics, feel, and usage model. My SL kit is pretty extensive already and I like the camera a great deal, so I'm not letting that go. The big sensor and a short enough lens could tip the balance, but that will take a while to surface. Meanwhile, I will not sell the SWC nor the 500CM—I just like them too much, have a bunch of lenses that I like for the 500CM, and I'd lose too much money in the transition. Putting a digital back on them, even if its format is different and thus creates a different camera entirely, expands the value of my 'investment' and makes it more useful. And I only have so much money to spend...

    We shall see. I don't need camera innovation so much as I need to make photographs.

    I suspect that the focus point targeting on the X1D would be fine for me. I only rarely move the focus point anyway, just like I only rarely use autofocus. These things are amongst my least important criteria in assessing a camera's suitability for my use. They're nice conveniences that I occasionally take advantage of, nothing more.

    G

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by ErikKaffehr View Post
    Have you checked magnified live view? How do you choose the point to magnify? Double click? How does it work?
    You will need it for manual focus…
    I don't know why that would be. I've been focusing the Hasselblad 500CM for years with no aids other than a magnifier, and the SWC works fine setting the focus by scale.
    The CFV-50c allows you to open the shutter, magnify, set a focus point for critical focus accuracy, etc. Pretty easy stuff. It's not quick to do so ... but it works fine.

    Oh, you mean the X1D. I didn't see the magnify function at all when I saw it. I found it quite easy to focus with no aids turned on at all. :-)

    G

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Hi,

    My experience is that I would give up a lot of detail if I would not use the best focusing methods available. Check the image below:


    It shows an actual pixels shot of a US test target, the red, blue and yellow markings show what I could resolve visually with:

    • The PM5 (3X) viewfinder, unaided (red)
    • The Hartblei view finder loupe (4X) (blue)
    • The PM5 (3X) combined with the Zeiss Victory 3X monocular, yielding 9X magnification (yellow)


    I was looking at the viewfinder image with different options and see which groups I could resolve. Very clearly, none of the tools came close to sensor resolution.

    Another way to see it. DoF markings on the lens are calculated for CoC of 1/15 of a millimeter, that is around 67 microns. The area of that CoC is 3500 square microns. The area of a pixel is 6.8 x 6.8, that is around 46 microns on my P45+. So 76 pixels fit within the area that DoF scale finds sharp. The X1D has smaller pixels, so it needs even more accurate focusing.

    If you consider technical cameras like the Alpa, they have calibrated focusing rings that turn several revolutions. That kind of precision may be needed for ultimate focus accuracy. With AF on the X1D, no problem, AF is using contrast detection and that technique is essentially 100% accurate unless it misses.

    Check out this essay: Joseph Holmes - News: Medium Format Methods for Sharpness

    Best regards
    Erik





    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    I don't know why that would be. I've been focusing the Hasselblad 500CM for years with no aids other than a magnifier, and the SWC works fine setting the focus by scale.
    The CFV-50c allows you to open the shutter, magnify, set a focus point for critical focus accuracy, etc. Pretty easy stuff. It's not quick to do so ... but it works fine.

    Oh, you mean the X1D. I didn't see the magnify function at all when I saw it. I found it quite easy to focus with no aids turned on at all. :-)

    G
    Last edited by ErikKaffehr; 10th September 2016 at 16:48.

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Lundqvist View Post
    Thought you were my X1D buddy. Why don't you sell all that stuff and join me on the forefront of camera innovation!

    Yesterday I attended my second X1D demo. Obviously not much to add. I only really went there to try out using the ergonomics of using the AF-D button to unlock the focus point and then move it with the control wheels. This is not implemented yet of course, but I still wanted to try it out. I'd say it is certainly doable, but at the same time it is pretty much the worst implementation of moving the focus point on any modern camera with a joystick being the best. Pretty sure I will get used to it and it won't slow me down too much though. For still-life, architecture and landscape it is not a concern of course, but with portraits it would be. A tiny one.
    Erik,

    I appreciate that insight. I was interested in the X1D but was concerned about the implementation for moving the focus point. I shoot primarily people. I don't think the X1D would be a good fit for me.

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by ErikKaffehr View Post
    Hi,

    My experience is that I would give up a lot of detail if I would not use the best focusing methods available. Check the image below:


    It shows an actual pixels shot of a US test target, the red, blue and yellow markings show what I could resolve visually
    But then, most people do not photography exclusively test charts. If you took a photograph of, say, a beautiful model, you may just find out that the difference between the three focussing methods may just be that for one, one eye is in focus and for the other, the other eye is in focus.
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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by dennishuang View Post
    Erik,

    I appreciate that insight. I was interested in the X1D but was concerned about the implementation for moving the focus point. I shoot primarily people. I don't think the X1D would be a good fit for me.
    I primarily shoot people as well, but I don't think it is a show stopper. Will it be as fast as a joystick as on the X-Pro2 and most DSLRs of course not, but I don't think it will be unworkable. My advice is to try it out yourself.

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by ErikKaffehr View Post
    Hi,

    My experience is that I would give up a lot of detail if I would not use the best focusing methods available. Check the image below:
    ...
    I spend very very little of my photographic time shooting pictures of resolution test charts.

    G
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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by dennishuang View Post
    I appreciate that insight. I was interested in the X1D but was concerned about the implementation for moving the focus point. I shoot primarily people. I don't think the X1D would be a good fit for me.
    I've never moved the focusing point around on my cameras, AF or MF, when shooting photos of people. At all.

    I focus, set the aperture to accommodate the necessary depth of field to get eyes in focus along with nose and near-side ear, then look for the expressions I want, making an exposure each time I think there's an reasonable picture to be had. The notion is to fuss with the camera as little as possible in order to engage with the person/persons being photographed.

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    I spend very very little of my photographic time shooting pictures of resolution test charts.

    G
    You also don't issue spreadsheets announcing all of the reasons why a newly released camera that you were never going to buy doesn't meet your needs.
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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Any feedback on the camera's viewfinder gents? How does it compare to the Sony A7 series or better still the SL finder?

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by hcubell View Post
    You also don't issue spreadsheets announcing all of the reasons why a newly released camera that you were never going to buy doesn't meet your needs.
    Because who has the time to do that?

    Amazing portfolio by the way Howard. Tuscany is very high up on my list of places to visit and photograph.

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Lundqvist View Post
    Because who has the time to do that?

    Amazing portfolio by the way Howard. Tuscany is very high up on my list of places to visit and photograph.
    Thanks, Erik. Tuscany is highly recommended. Just an exquisite landscape. As are the food and wine.

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    Any feedback on the camera's viewfinder gents? How does it compare to the Sony A7 series or better still the SL finder?
    It is quite similar to the A7 and a bit less good than the SL (tried a demo model a month ago).

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by jerome_m View Post
    It is quite similar to the A7 and a bit less good than the SL (tried a demo model a month ago).
    I was hoping size might make up for (relative) lack of resolution....the viewfinder 'experience' is very important for the way I shoot.

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    Any feedback on the camera's viewfinder gents? How does it compare to the Sony A7 series or better still the SL finder?
    When I handled the demo cameras in June, the viewfinder impressed me as on par with the Olympus E-M1 and Sony A7, not quite on par with the Leica SL. The E-M1 and A7 viewfinders are both very good; the Olympus software is better and produces a more transparent, SLR-like feel to the viewfinder. The X1D software was still quite early so it's hard to say for sure which one it's closest to, but I have to say I wasn't put off by it at all. I've been using the E-M1 since 2013 and the SL since Nov 2015, and find that both present themselves very well with respect to the viewfinder.

    The Leica SL EVF is currently in a class of its own on resolution and feel.

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Another thanks for your website, Howard. Some lovely work there!

    G

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Another thanks for your website, Howard. Some lovely work there!

    G
    Thank you very much for the compliment, Godfrey.

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    I was hoping size might make up for (relative) lack of resolution....the viewfinder 'experience' is very important for the way I shoot.
    Amen to that. To hear it is similar to the Sony doesn't exactly thrill me.

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    When I handled the demo cameras in June, the viewfinder impressed me as on par with the Olympus E-M1 and Sony A7, not quite on par with the Leica SL. The E-M1 and A7 viewfinders are both very good; the Olympus software is better and produces a more transparent, SLR-like feel to the viewfinder. The X1D software was still quite early so it's hard to say for sure which one it's closest to, but I have to say I wasn't put off by it at all. I've been using the E-M1 since 2013 and the SL since Nov 2015, and find that both present themselves very well with respect to the viewfinder.

    The Leica SL EVF is currently in a class of its own on resolution and feel.

    G
    Thanks for your feedback Godfrey. After shooting with the SL for a month - that EVF experience is now my benchmark.

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Hi Godfrey,

    No reason for that nasty tone…

    That was just a what i would say a pretty good demonstration that a modern MF-sensor is capable of resolving far beyond what can be observed on the focusing screen. So you focus on perceived contrast and not actual detail, as plainly, actual detail cannot be seen on ground glass.

    I tried to use my 3X monocular on the Sony A7r, which has similar resolution to the X1D, and just saw red, green and blue dots. So a viewfinder magnifier is not much help on an EVF.

    If you are going from gear focusing on ground glass to electronic focusing on a low resolution viewfinder image, it may be worth some considerations. Keep in mind that most modern cameras are built for AF, anyway. May be a good thing to consider before spending 15k$US or so (if you also buy lenses).

    Just to say, I have been shooting both OVF and EVF for quite a few years.

    BTW, have you seen any distance scale on the lens? Perhaps focusing distance and DoF are shown on the EVF.

    Best regards
    Erik



    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    I spend very very little of my photographic time shooting pictures of resolution test charts.

    G

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    I've never moved the focusing point around on my cameras, AF or MF, when shooting photos of people. At all.

    I focus, set the aperture to accommodate the necessary depth of field to get eyes in focus along with nose and near-side ear, then look for the expressions I want, making an exposure each time I think there's an reasonable picture to be had. The notion is to fuss with the camera as little as possible in order to engage with the person/persons being photographed.

    G
    Hello,

    Thanks for sharing your technique. I often times use power pack strobes, manual settings, and ND filters and often like to shoot at sunset. There are many times that I can't see well enough through a viewfinder to manually focus or to adjust aperture to get focus that I have to rely on autofocus. Changing aperture also requires me to change the power on my power pack. I don't use TTL flash metering. I actually don't have that ability when I use my power pack with my camera with my transceiver.

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Lundqvist View Post
    I primarily shoot people as well, but I don't think it is a show stopper. Will it be as fast as a joystick as on the X-Pro2 and most DSLRs of course not, but I don't think it will be unworkable. My advice is to try it out yourself.
    Hi Erik,

    Thanks for the suggestion.

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by dennishuang View Post
    Hello,

    Thanks for sharing your technique. I often times use power pack strobes, manual settings, and ND filters and often like to shoot at sunset. There are many times that I can't see well enough through a viewfinder to manually focus or to adjust aperture to get focus that I have to rely on autofocus. Changing aperture also requires me to change the power on my power pack. I don't use TTL flash metering. I actually don't have that ability when I use my power pack with my camera with my transceiver.
    Glad to help.

    I haven't used TTL metering flash in years. I use a hand-held flash meter with manual flash units. Yes, I change power settings to adjust the amount of light, as needed.

    When it's dark enough that I cannot focus on my primary subject by ambient light, I find AF far far less consistent to work with in those circumstances. I use a spot-tight beam flashlight to temporarily illuminate the subject for focusing, set the focus, and carry on.

    G

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by ErikKaffehr View Post
    Hi Godfrey,

    No reason for that nasty tone…

    That was just a what i would say a pretty good demonstration that a modern MF-sensor is capable of resolving far beyond what can be observed on the focusing screen. So you focus on perceived contrast and not actual detail, as plainly, actual detail cannot be seen on ground glass.

    I tried to use my 3X monocular on the Sony A7r, which has similar resolution to the X1D, and just saw red, green and blue dots. So a viewfinder magnifier is not much help on an EVF.

    If you are going from gear focusing on ground glass to electronic focusing on a low resolution viewfinder image, it may be worth some considerations. Keep in mind that most modern cameras are built for AF, anyway. May be a good thing to consider before spending 15k$US or so (if you also buy lenses).

    Just to say, I have been shooting both OVF and EVF for quite a few years.

    BTW, have you seen any distance scale on the lens? Perhaps focusing distance and DoF are shown on the EVF.

    Best regards
    Erik
    Sorry you think the 'tone' was nasty. It's simply the truth. Absolute critical focus for maximum resolution is important in some circumstances, for some kinds of subjects, but is irrelevant the majority of the time. I haven't shot a resolution test chart in the past decade at least.

    I have been using EVF equipped cameras (far far lower resolution EVFs at the beginning...) since 2002, and have been doing photography since 1968. Obviously I've got lots of experience with optical viewfinders and manual focusing of all kinds from that history. I really don't care what modern cameras "are built for"—that's irrelevant. I buy cameras that work the way I want them to work, and one of those criteria is that I can manually focus them accurately. I get the most consistently accurate focusing with manual focus, and, with normal to tele lenses, have rarely needed to use focus assist magnification or other focusing aids with modern EVFs. Such aids can speed up approximate focus, or help pinpoint critical focus when that's necessary, but it's usually not.

    In focus is in focus, regardless of how you get there.

    I didn't see any distance scale on the X1D lenses, and I'm sure I missed some of the in-viewfinder or on-LCD information displays; I don't recall seeing a distance readout, but I suspect there is one somewhere. (The Leica SL has an excellent distance/DOF readout for manual focus with native lenses; I imagine the Hasselblad X1D will have something similar.)

    Picking apart a camera based on a specification sheet is, to me, a waste of time. I go handle the cameras I'm interested in, see if I can see well enough to focus accurately, see whether the controls make sense to my hands and head, ascertain that the features I want are easily accessible, etc. That's how I judge whether I'm going to buy a camera. Based on what I saw with the early demo cameras, I'd buy an X1D without too many reservations (presuming the lens I want is available). But I already have the SL, and I think my money is better spent on the digital back for the V system at the moment. I might yet change my mind again... :-)

    G
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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Ship date for the body is now end of Sept at B&H. Ship date info is no longer showing for the two lenses.

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    BH Photo just moved the ship date to end of September if available .... not sure if they got a few or if they are still waiting.


    Bob

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by docmoore View Post
    BH Photo just moved the ship date to end of September if available .... not sure if they got a few or if they are still waiting.


    Bob
    Expected availability date = They don't know anything other than what Hasselblad has told everyone else "Mid to End of September"

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Colson View Post
    My guess is that the priority at Hasselblad now is preparation for Photokina (September 20-25). I'm sure that the first production units will be on display there, and that the rest of us will see them after the [successful] launch at Photokina. So I'm not expecting one until late September at the earliest.
    I had guessed (earlier in this thread) that they wouldn’t be able to deliver until after Photokina. Their reps are still doing demos with pre-production cameras, and the so-called Hasselblad “ambassadors” haven’t started generating reviews with production bodies. I just hope Hass gets it right. The only observation that alarms me is how warm/hot the camera gets after being on for awhile. Many of the "missing features" can be fixed with firmware, but dissipating heat is a toughie.

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Colson View Post
    The only observation that alarms me is how warm/hot the camera gets after being on for awhile. Many of the "missing features" can be fixed with firmware, but dissipating heat is a toughie.

    Joe
    i did a shooting over the weekend with a camera which name is not allowed to say here anymore because it offends those "sensitive artists" in a very hot environment. the camera was on 7 hours without a break and zero problems and it happened that i thought how would the x1d perform in the same situation. it took xxxx some work to get the heat issues solved. beside af function and performance this is definitely a serious question.

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Colson View Post
    I had guessed (earlier in this thread) that they wouldn’t be able to deliver until after Photokina. Their reps are still doing demos with pre-production cameras, and the so-called Hasselblad “ambassadors” haven’t started generating reviews with production bodies. I just hope Hass gets it right. The only observation that alarms me is how warm/hot the camera gets after being on for awhile. Many of the "missing features" can be fixed with firmware, but dissipating heat is a toughie.

    Joe
    I'd expect this to also be a firmware related. Make the firmware more efficient and it will consume less CPU and it will produce less heat. Up to a point of course.

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Lundqvist View Post
    I'd expect this to also be a firmware related. Make the firmware more efficient and it will consume less CPU and it will produce less heat. Up to a point of course.
    "Up to a point" is a key phrase. The heat that has been reported is likely mainly associated with the 50MP sensor. The sensor is "working" constantly with Live View and/or EVF use. Other cameras that use the same sensor - 645Z, H6D-50c, Phase One 50MP - have a larger mass to sink the heat. The X1D-50c is lightweight and small by comparison. Firmware can improve efficiency and power management, but it will not sink heat from the sensor. We'll hear soon from the Photokina demos and from designated pros who review the camera.

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Hi,

    Power consumption and heat up are obvious issues with the EVF concept.

    Some things can probably done in firmware.

    But consider this. On an SLR type device, viewing doesn't power. You can remove the battery and you still have viewfiender view.

    With EVF, there is a need to supply continuous data to the EVF and the processing effort consumes batteries and produces heat.

    Best regards
    Erik



    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Colson View Post
    I had guessed (earlier in this thread) that they wouldn’t be able to deliver until after Photokina. Their reps are still doing demos with pre-production cameras, and the so-called Hasselblad “ambassadors” haven’t started generating reviews with production bodies. I just hope Hass gets it right. The only observation that alarms me is how warm/hot the camera gets after being on for awhile. Many of the "missing features" can be fixed with firmware, but dissipating heat is a toughie.

    Joe

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by ErikKaffehr View Post
    Hi,

    Power consumption and heat up are obvious issues with the EVF concept.

    Some things can probably done in firmware.

    But consider this. On an SLR type device, viewing doesn't power. You can remove the battery and you still have viewfiender view.

    With EVF, there is a need to supply continuous data to the EVF and the processing effort consumes batteries and produces heat.

    Best regards
    Erik
    Erik, I full understand the technology, having been trained as an electrical engineer and actively involved in new product development in the telecom industry for 30 years. No need for the tutorial. Despite the heat issue, my aging eyes need an EVF, Live View, focusing aids (e.g., peaking) to accurately focus [manually]. I'll never go back to a DSLR and OVF. Case closed.

    I can wait for Hasselblad to get it right. Another two weeks (or month or more) aren't going to dissuade me.

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Colson View Post
    ...I just hope Hass gets it right. The only observation that alarms me is how warm/hot the camera gets after being on for awhile. Many of the "missing features" can be fixed with firmware, but dissipating heat is a toughie.

    Joe
    One thing to remember is that however warm a camera might feel to the touch is generally not a good indicator of whether it is running hot or is within its design spec.

    I've had several cameras that feel very warm to the touch when used for an extended shooting session but are evidently running well within design spec because they have never given a moment of trouble in use.

    G

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    One thing to remember is that however warm a camera might feel to the touch is generally not a good indicator of whether it is running hot or is within its design spec.

    I've had several cameras that feel very warm to the touch when used for an extended shooting session but are evidently running well within design spec because they have never given a moment of trouble in use.

    G
    Yep, you're right. I'm interested in whether the heat affects sensor noise, particularly for long exposures. In other words, is the high ISO performance degraded as the camera is used in an extended shooting session? We'll soon know.

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Joe,

    I'm with you in waiting for Hasselblad to get it right with the X1D. Just wish there were some additional images being put out so we could get a better sense of how it might perform in different shooting scenarios. Speaks the loudest about the software not being near final.

    Oh, well...piggy bank is ready and waiting.

    Derek
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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Hi there,
    I have used the S System for many years now but the x1d is the first product which gives me thoughts to eventually switch in the future (of course after demo and shooting a x1d myself).
    The smaller formfactor makes it very interesting.
    The viewfinder would be a very important factor for me, if it is up to a medium format OVF. I doubt it. I have to see myself.
    I will wait and see.

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Sure would be nice if other manufacturers would implement a sensor heat indicator like the XF+100 has a a standard feature. Incremental costs cannot be great, but whatever the cost it sure would make for better user information and the ability to react to that information.

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    Sure would be nice if other manufacturers would implement a sensor heat indicator like the XF+100 has a a standard feature. Incremental costs cannot be great, but whatever the cost it sure would make for better user information and the ability to react to that information.
    I'd far rather have a sensor whose thermal boundaries are controlled such that they don't affect camera operation or image quality when that camera is used as designed. Frankly, wondering about my sensor's temperature is something I'd prefer not to do!

    That the XF-100 includes such a readout is interesting. It suggests there are conditions or shooting scenarios that might prompt higher-than-desired temps. That said, having such a bleeding-edge sensor run hot doesn't surprise me a bit. The cost, I suppose, of those breathtaking images!

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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    I'd far rather have a sensor whose thermal boundaries are controlled such that they don't affect camera operation or image quality when that camera is used as designed. Frankly, wondering about my sensor's temperature is something I'd prefer not to do!

    That the XF-100 includes such a readout is interesting. It suggests there are conditions or shooting scenarios that might prompt higher-than-desired temps. That said, having such a bleeding-edge sensor run hot doesn't surprise me a bit. The cost, I suppose, of those breathtaking images!

    Indeed I consider it a positive. There is no such thing (practically) as noise free images, certainly not with larger, cutting edge sensors. Having an on board temperature readout is extremely helpful, especially in conditions that will result in more noise, example, continuous long exposure captures in warmer ambient temperatures. Being able to note the state of the internal temperature might result in the user waiting 3 minutes for the temperature to subside and then gaining a stop or 2 less noise.

    Per MR. Goldberg, that is also correct, a warm camera can simply mean the internal heat sink is doing its job. Obviously there's a point where hotter than it should be needs to be heeded.


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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    I'd far rather have a sensor whose thermal boundaries are controlled such that they don't affect camera operation or image quality when that camera is used as designed. Frankly, wondering about my sensor's temperature is something I'd prefer not to do!

    That the XF-100 includes such a readout is interesting. It suggests there are conditions or shooting scenarios that might prompt higher-than-desired temps. That said, having such a bleeding-edge sensor run hot doesn't surprise me a bit. The cost, I suppose, of those breathtaking images!
    If you are using LV with any sensor the temp will begin to climb and that creates unwanted noise. Every camera's sensor will rise in temp as it is used. Any camera. That does not mean there is a problem. That is a fact and I was just saying that I would rather know the temp in crucial shoots versus not knowing until later when back at the home computer and find out then. The 100MP does not run hot at all, but when I have hicked for 2 hours to a crucial shoot in 100+ degrees I like to know when my sensor's temp gets on the high side so I can rest it for a bit in order to be ready for THE shot I am waiting for in order to capture it with as low a noise as possible especially while shooting at ISO 50 which I use for the theortecially best quality image possible.

    Your shooting situations might not be a critical as I consider mine and as a result I DO want to know when that sensor's temp is rising. As a result I find that sensor temp tool useful in many situations out in the field. I don't need or use it all the time, but when I want to know the sensor's temperature it is available to me. The graph associated with the temp tool shows the temp over a period of time which indicates in real time what is happening as regards the sensor's temp.

    As someone pointed out the 50MP sensor in the X1D is the same used in the 645Z which I also used. However, the Z has a larger internal area allowing for heat dissipation when compared to the thin and tightly packed body of the X1D. In addition the X1D will have LV always on for its mirrorless needs whereas the Z has an OVF with LV being optional.
    Last edited by algrove; 15th September 2016 at 19:46.
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    Re: Hasselblad X1D

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Colson View Post
    Erik, I full understand the technology, having been trained as an electrical engineer and actively involved in new product development in the telecom industry for 30 years. No need for the tutorial. Despite the heat issue, my aging eyes need an EVF, Live View, focusing aids (e.g., peaking) to accurately focus [manually]. I'll never go back to a DSLR and OVF. Case closed.

    I can wait for Hasselblad to get it right. Another two weeks (or month or more) aren't going to dissuade me.

    Joe
    If it takes six months to sort everything out it'll still be worth it IMHO.

    I had some feedback secondhand from one of the early adopter shooters and consensus was that the camera was slow for handheld use (EVF) and also obviously has limited fast lenses so if your goal is handheld portrait / travel work be warned. For us landscape folks this won't matter at all because we own and use tripods! ...
    Last edited by GrahamWelland; 15th September 2016 at 20:37. Reason: My Note 7 just ignited and caused horrible misspellings before the flames caused me to leave the building :)
    Ylem ...
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