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Hasselblad X1D

V

Vivek

Guest
I have a Sony A7RII. I love the image quality. Yet, it is not a joy to shoot with. I put up with it. Everyone decides for himself what price to to put on such intangibles.
Try customizing with special grips, straps, crystals....
You could even change the name to something that makes you jump with joy.
 

Pradeep

Member
Everyone is thinking Sony or Fuji while the company that really maybe the one is Phase. They have the resources they already have the sensor and they own all the rights to Mamiya and Leaf. They have maybe the best shot at this and who knows it already maybe in the works. Here is the kicker in all this and hold the real royal flush is Sony imaging. They control both companies sensors. It would also not be that hard to turn there current new body with some integration of course and make it into a mirror less body. Surely They can pop three lenses out for release too. Not sure but they probably own the patent on the Mamiya 7 glass. Would it be that hard to startup the production on them and update them for digital. Point being no matter how you slice the cheese they are in the best position to make a move on something like this. They can also do a adapter for all there current Phase One lenses just like Hassy. I know one thing for sure they love to go after each other. Lol

Question is what's lurking behind those doors. LOL

They are not going to sit there and watch revenue hit the floor boards
I've said this before. Phase has great products but their pricing leaves me gasping. When the Pentax 645z came out, it was a better sensor/body package than the Phase IQ250 with an identical sensor and yet the latter was priced at more than four times. One would have thought then that Phase would lower their prices but they did not.

To my mind, a successful business strategy would be to sell more at a lower profit margin than to sell a few at a higher markup. At least this is what I've heard from those in my extended family who own multi-million dollar retail businesses. But I doubt Phase will follow this model, since their philosophy is to cater to a select group of people through a dealership network that adds its own costs. It is a 'club' model and the exclusivity of this club is what maybe attractive to many, 'value for money' being such a subjective phenomenon.

However, there is nothing inherently wrong with this strategy if it generates revenues that satisfy the shareholders/owners. But somehow I doubt if we will see Phase coming up with something as interesting as the X1D or better, especially at this price point. They will have to break a lot of their own barriers to do so and it will mean jeopardizing the sales of existing systems.

My own feeling is that Pentax may well come up with a surprise this year. They were really the game-changers in the MF world, releasing a truly revolutionary sensor/body combination at a very attractive price - at the time, just a tad more than what I paid for my 1DX or M9/M240.

I wait eagerly for Photokina. May quite possibly get the X1D or equivalent at that time.
 

ErikKaffehr

Well-known member
Hi,

It is difficult to predict the way Phase One will act.

The impression I may have is that Hasselblad may be a bit more affordable while Phase One aims to be more exclusive. A little bit like Seiko and Rolex. Seiko makes watches that do what all watches do, show time. Seiko is still quite a bit more expensive than a Casio.

I think that Phase One wants to stay a bit exclusive, work with dealers and so on. My guess is that Hasselblad strives to be more of a great tool for the working professional. Being a bit more exclusive than say Nikon and Sony, but still deliver performance at a decent price. I also guess that Hasselblad may be less oriented towards an expensive network of dealers and be happy to sell trough shops like B&H Photovideo, et al.

Best regards
Erik


I've said this before. Phase has great products but their pricing leaves me gasping. When the Pentax 645z came out, it was a better sensor/body package than the Phase IQ250 with an identical sensor and yet the latter was priced at more than four times. One would have thought then that Phase would lower their prices but they did not.

To my mind, a successful business strategy would be to sell more at a lower profit margin than to sell a few at a higher markup. At least this is what I've heard from those in my extended family who own multi-million dollar retail businesses. But I doubt Phase will follow this model, since their philosophy is to cater to a select group of people through a dealership network that adds its own costs. It is a 'club' model and the exclusivity of this club is what maybe attractive to many, 'value for money' being such a subjective phenomenon.

However, there is nothing inherently wrong with this strategy if it generates revenues that satisfy the shareholders/owners. But somehow I doubt if we will see Phase coming up with something as interesting as the X1D or better, especially at this price point. They will have to break a lot of their own barriers to do so and it will mean jeopardizing the sales of existing systems.

My own feeling is that Pentax may well come up with a surprise this year. They were really the game-changers in the MF world, releasing a truly revolutionary sensor/body combination at a very attractive price - at the time, just a tad more than what I paid for my 1DX or M9/M240.

I wait eagerly for Photokina. May quite possibly get the X1D or equivalent at that time.
 

David Schneider

New member
I don't know much about Fuji, (other than my XPan experience and that they partnered with Hasselblad on the e-prism for the H camera as well as manufactured the HC/HCD lenses) so that would remain to be seen if they jump in. The wrinkle in this would be whether their partnership with Hasselblad would extend to a mirror-less MFD; where the mirror-less lens designs would be sourced; and where potential sales would come from since MFD is such a small slice of the photo gear pie to start with.
The maker best positioned to make an excellent mirrorless MFD would be Fuji. They have experience building MF camera bodies. They make some of the best lenses in the world and have experience making lenses for mirrorless. But more important they have great knowledge of how to incorporate the advantages of mirrorless into a usable camera. And, they have a fantastic history of upgrading their cameras via firmware at no charge so the Fuji mirroless camera you purchase today is actually a better camera in a couple of years.
 
To my mind, a successful business strategy would be to sell more at a lower profit margin than to sell a few at a higher markup. At least this is what I've heard from those in my extended family who own multi-million dollar retail businesses. But I doubt Phase will follow this model, since their philosophy is to cater to a select group of people through a dealership network that adds its own costs. It is a 'club' model and the exclusivity of this club is what maybe attractive to many, 'value for money' being such a subjective phenomenon.

However, there is nothing inherently wrong with this strategy if it generates revenues that satisfy the shareholders/owners. But somehow I doubt if we will see Phase coming up with something as interesting as the X1D or better, especially at this price point. They will have to break a lot of their own barriers to do so and it will mean jeopardizing the sales of existing systems.
Phase's business model worked great because they had exclusive access towards the 80MP Dalsa CCD sensor back in 2011. I don't think it will continue to work well while everyone else has access to the 100MP Sony CMOS sensor.

My own feeling is that Pentax may well come up with a surprise this year. They were really the game-changers in the MF world, releasing a truly revolutionary sensor/body combination at a very attractive price - at the time, just a tad more than what I paid for my 1DX or M9/M240.

I wait eagerly for Photokina. May quite possibly get the X1D or equivalent at that time.
I think that a fullframe 645 100MP camera body from Pentax is highly likely.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
The maker best positioned to make an excellent mirrorless MFD would be Fuji. They have experience building MF camera bodies. They make some of the best lenses in the world and have experience making lenses for mirrorless. But more important they have great knowledge of how to incorporate the advantages of mirrorless into a usable camera. And, they have a fantastic history of upgrading their cameras via firmware at no charge so the Fuji mirroless camera you purchase today is actually a better camera in a couple of years.
Well, the rumors seem hot on this possibility, and you are right, Fuji has made some nifty MF cameras in past. They seem pretty good at the electronic side of things also.

Man, the world is going to be saturated with 50 meg cameras in the not to distant future.

- Marc
 

jerome_m

Member
The maker best positioned to make an excellent mirrorless MFD would be Fuji. They have experience building MF camera bodies. They make some of the best lenses in the world and have experience making lenses for mirrorless. But more important they have great knowledge of how to incorporate the advantages of mirrorless into a usable camera. And, they have a fantastic history of upgrading their cameras via firmware at no charge so the Fuji mirroless camera you purchase today is actually a better camera in a couple of years.
Why would Fuji come along a MF camera? Sure, they had some in their film days, but the question is: why would they develop a MF camera now? Their X-series of cameras is doing very well, I would rather expect them to continue investing in that direction.
 

Nick-T

New member
I posted this on LL but it seems relevant here too:

People have said again and again in this thread that this camera is not for them.

Bottom line is that this camera will suit a lot of people, in fact Hasselblad have had more orders in a week than they had hoped for the entire year.

I'd call that a winner.
 

DrakeJ

New member
I posted this on LL but it seems relevant here too:

People have said again and again in this thread that this camera is not for them.

Bottom line is that this camera will suit a lot of people, in fact Hasselblad have had more orders in a week than they had hoped for the entire year.

I'd call that a winner.
That's amazing! Spells good news for future versions/upgrades of mirrorless medium format, and for the competition in general.
 

tjv

Active member
People speculate that Fuji will use the same sensor and have an electronic shutter of PDAF or whatever, but the fact of the matter is the chip does not support it without dropping to 12bit or, in the case of PDAF, without significant changes to its design. Are people suggesting that they'll get a completely new sensor, or what?

I don't know what the fuss is about with regards to Fuji mirrorless cameras. I've tried to use them and by my own (admittedly very personal) measures they're horrible. Not in terms of end image quality, but the handling and UI. The only thing I liked about them was manual aperture ring and shutter speed dial. And I'm with others here with regards to the Sony mirrorless cameras. Great tools, but I found them a chore to pick up and use, for the most part due to UI.
 

Pradeep

Member
Phase's business model worked great because they had exclusive access towards the 80MP Dalsa CCD sensor back in 2011. I don't think it will continue to work well while everyone else has access to the 100MP Sony CMOS sensor.



I think that a fullframe 645 100MP camera body from Pentax is highly likely.
It may well turn out to be true. If the sensor is not proprietary, then nothing stops Pentax from putting it in their own FF body. Seeing as they did a much better job with the 645z than contemporary offerings of the time, it would not be surprising at all if they could do it again.

The question then is will the new body be smaller/mirrorless or not. If they can pull that off (mirrorless FF) that would be a real coup.

It is inevitable, IMHO, that somebody besides Phase will come up with a FF MF sensor with 80/100MP on it. That would be way more exciting than the X1D although it is in itself quite a leap forward. But some of us who have a 42MP A7RII with the new lenses find it is not enough to make the switch in a hurry.

MF, to me, means either a significantly larger sensor than 35mm and/or significantly higher resolution.
 

ErikKaffehr

Well-known member
Hi Jerome,

More responding to the thread than to your posting…

There are a lot of rumours from sources that used to be reliable. If you ask why Fuji would make an MFD camera you may as well ask why they would not? Fuji has always been an actor in MFD. The Hasselblad H-series was sold under the Fuji label in Japan, you may recall, and they make all the lenses for the H-series.

The X-series are well designed. Fuji probably can develop an MFD device based on the Sony sensor at ease. They have the electronics and they certainly can make the lenses.

Best regards
Erik




Why would Fuji come along a MF camera? Sure, they had some in their film days, but the question is: why would they develop a MF camera now? Their X-series of cameras is doing very well, I would rather expect them to continue investing in that direction.
 

ErikKaffehr

Well-known member
Hi,

Personally, I would expect to see next generation of the 44x33mm Sony sensor coming in at 70-125Mp. It is reasonable to expect that Sony's MFD sensors correspond to same generation full frame sensors. Right now we have:

  • APS-C at 24 MP
  • Full frame 36x24 at 42 MP
  • 44x33 at 50 MP
  • 54x40 at 100 MP

But, rumours about 70-75MP full frame 36x24 are quite intensive.

Best regards
Erik


It may well turn out to be true. If the sensor is not proprietary, then nothing stops Pentax from putting it in their own FF body. Seeing as they did a much better job with the 645z than contemporary offerings of the time, it would not be surprising at all if they could do it again.

The question then is will the new body be smaller/mirrorless or not. If they can pull that off (mirrorless FF) that would be a real coup.

It is inevitable, IMHO, that somebody besides Phase will come up with a FF MF sensor with 80/100MP on it. That would be way more exciting than the X1D although it is in itself quite a leap forward. But some of us who have a 42MP A7RII with the new lenses find it is not enough to make the switch in a hurry.

MF, to me, means either a significantly larger sensor than 35mm and/or significantly higher resolution.
 
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