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Hasselblad X1D

CSP

New member
:lecture: What all these delays, etc, really point out, given that it is endemic to all the medium format camera brands, is how difficult it is to develop these machines and meet all the expectations construed by the high prices and assumed performance to be gained therefrom.

I would not want to be a camera manufacturer at all in today's marketplace. Between the insistent "now now now, more, better, now, and cheaper!" demands, the often conflicting (and complex!) needs and desires, the distraction of everyone wanting to know every detail of your business at every moment—and then criticizing it constantly, combined with the intense difficulties posed by the development and manufacturing process and limited profitability... Whew, who wants all that stress and anxiety?

Given the collapsing profitability of the camera manufacturing business in the past several years, I think we should all be appreciative that these manufacturers have hung in there at all. And encourage them to do diligence, make the products excel as the announcements suggest, so that the cameras really are worth the the time to develop and the price they have to charge for them.

A little time and patience is in order. Nobody is dying because their X1D won't be delivered tomorrow. :grin:

G
hm maybe they simply need to obey good business practice like most of my colleagues in this business do which means don´t lie to your clients, don´t make promises you can not fulfill and meet your deadlines. it is astonishing for me that many here think this arrogant behavior is ok.
 

BANKER1

Member
hm maybe they simply need to obey good business practice like most of my colleagues in this business do which means don´t lie to your clients, don´t make promises you can not fulfill and meet your deadlines. it is astonishing for me that many here think this arrogant behavior is ok.
Can't disagree a whole lot. It is not OK to behave in this manner just because all others in MFD do. Communication is absolutely necessary to maintain good rapport with your clientele. In my business career, I could not have been successful treating my clients in this manner. However, missing a deadline occasionally is not the end of the world, but missing every one is not acceptable.

Greg
 
Two weeks isn't much. However I suspect it might be a bit longer. I was booked in for a demo next tuesday in London and just got an email from Hasselblad saying that the demo would be with a pre-production camera and not with the finished product which was originally anticipated. So at least for next tuesday Hasselblad doesn't have a fully finished camera to show.
I'm booked in for two next week in London, but I doubt I will see a finished X1D as it will be before the 15th.

Of course I am disappointed by this, but then again I don't really mind waiting to see what happens at Photokina anyway.

Personally I'd rather see Hasselblad fully focused on polishing their products instead of hand holding a bunch of needy photographers. Makes me chuckle when I see the rage in this thread. Someone even said that Hasselblad has been lying. Ludicrous. I'd like to meet a person who has never been late or missed a promise themselves. I'm sure there is a saying about casting stones here or something similar which seems appropriate here.

Anyone else going to the Classic Camera Store on the 6th btw for their X1D demo?
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
hm maybe they simply need to obey good business practice like most of my colleagues in this business do which means don´t lie to your clients, don´t make promises you can not fulfill and meet your deadlines. it is astonishing for me that many here think this arrogant behavior is ok.
How many of your colleagues are in the high-end camera system development and manufacturing business?

I don't see any lies in what Hasselblad has said or done. I see only development and production delays. Since I've worked for a hardware manufacturer for a couple of decades, it is perfectly reasonable to me ... I cannot tell you how many times development and production delays have impacted the products (both hardware AND software) that were actually released to the public.

Patience. Let go of the rage and the desire to cast blame because you're frustrated. **** happens; I'm quite sure Hasselblad would rather that it didn't, but it does anyway.

G
 

MomentsForZen

New member
Well said, tjv and Godfrey.

These things happen. That said, Hasselblad could provide additional information (via social media) updating the situation with finalization and shipping of the X1D.

If there are "professionals" out there who have ordered the X1D and feel that they are losing money because of the delay, then let this be a lesson - no professional should have planned on having the X1D with such a tight time line before things became critical. This goes for any new product, but doubly so a product which is the first in a new line.

So that leaves "enthusiasts" - The X1D will hopefully be a source of pride and an excellent camera for many years to come. A delay of a few weeks is neither here nor there over this time frame. It would be better if it could be delivered on time, but that is not happening. So sit tight and wait for a wonderful camera to be finalised and manufactured.

... On a different tack, I currently use a 500C/M with a CFV-50c digital back. My interest in the X1Q is partly a case of love at first sight - it is a gorgeous design. But beyond that, there are a number of technical features that make it attractive. However, I have a clear understanding that I don't NEED the X1D, it would be just nice to have it. Logic tells me that I should wait for the X2D which would likely be a far superior product that would correct any shortcomings in the X1D. By the time that an X2D would be ready, the range of native lenses would be greatly expanded, making it a more versatile camera. I will be just fine with my 500C/M and CFV-50c until then.

I am familiar with the 50MP sensor in the X1D (as it is more or less the same as the sensor in the CFV-50c), so I know that it will have wonderful resolution and color. That said, the features that excite me with the X1D relative to where I am now (in no special order) ...

* Video as an option.
* Two extra high ISO options (12800 and 25600).
* Dual card slots.
* A touch display.
* Live view.
* USB 3 connectivity.
* Wi-Fi.
* GPS
* An extended maximum bulb shutter time of 60 minutes (up from 34 minutes).
* Optional autofocus.
* Reduced "bulk".
* Weatherproofing.

I hope that the above serves to re-direct the discussion back to the subject of photography (rather than business and marketing) and the more positive aspects of this new line of Hasselblad cameras.

:) ... MomentsForZen (Richard)
 

Pradeep

Member
If it is hard to be a high-end camera maker these days, it must be harder still to be a professional photographer!

The world has become impatient and unforgiving, where instant gratification rules, no wonder 'Instagram' is so popular. The very word summarizes society today.

"Promises to keep and miles to go before I sleep.........."
 

JeRuFo

Active member
Well said, tjv and Godfrey.

These things happen. That said, Hasselblad could provide additional information (via social media) updating the situation with finalization and shipping of the X1D.

If there are "professionals" out there who have ordered the X1D and feel that they are losing money because of the delay, then let this be a lesson - no professional should have planned on having the X1D with such a tight time line before things became critical. This goes for any new product, but doubly so a product which is the first in a new line.

So that leaves "enthusiasts" - ..
That's partly true. Ofcourse you shouldn't plan to be able to use a new camera that tightly. On the other hand, I have a friend with an X1D on order who plans to do some travelling from December and wants to bring the smallest kit possible, a digital for when he doesn't want to carry his LF camera. He was excited about the first lens choices and although he would probably add a 30 and a normal and tele lens later to complete his kit, he probably wouldn't bring them on his travels anyway. If delivery would be late august/early september that would leave him a few months to get to know it by bringing it along every now and then. But now he doesn't know anymore if he gets it soon and if he'll have enough time to do serious testing at all and if he wouldn't be better off getting to know another travel camera and if he should let 4:3 go and just shoot an easy to find 3:2. It's not about being mad, but things would just be easier if you could know which season you could plan on being able to use the camera system. If you're busy it's nice if you can just decide once and get on with other things.
 

24mm

New member
hm maybe they simply need to obey good business practice like most of my colleagues in this business do which means don´t lie to your clients, don´t make promises you can not fulfill and meet your deadlines. It is astonishing for me that many here think this arrogant behavior is ok.
how many of your colleagues are in the high-end camera system development and manufacturing business?
:rotfl:
 

bab

Active member
What does it mean when Hasselblad says their chips are Sony certified and Phase 1 aren't?
 

bab

Active member
Well said, tjv and Godfrey.

These things happen. That said, Hasselblad could provide additional information (via social media) updating the situation with finalization and shipping of the X1D.

If there are "professionals" out there who have ordered the X1D and feel that they are losing money because of the delay, then let this be a lesson - no professional should have planned on having the X1D with such a tight time line before things became critical. This goes for any new product, but doubly so a product which is the first in a new line.

So that leaves "enthusiasts" - The X1D will hopefully be a source of pride and an excellent camera for many years to come. A delay of a few weeks is neither here nor there over this time frame. It would be better if it could be delivered on time, but that is not happening. So sit tight and wait for a wonderful camera to be finalised and manufactured.

... On a different tack, I currently use a 500C/M with a CFV-50c digital back. My interest in the X1Q is partly a case of love at first sight - it is a gorgeous design. But beyond that, there are a number of technical features that make it attractive. However, I have a clear understanding that I don't NEED the X1D, it would be just nice to have it. Logic tells me that I should wait for the X2D which would likely be a far superior product that would correct any shortcomings in the X1D. By the time that an X2D would be ready, the range of native lenses would be greatly expanded, making it a more versatile camera. I will be just fine with my 500C/M and CFV-50c until then.

I am familiar with the 50MP sensor in the X1D (as it is more or less the same as the sensor in the CFV-50c), so I know that it will have wonderful resolution and color. That said, the features that excite me with the X1D relative to where I am now (in no special order) ...

* Video as an option.
* Two extra high ISO options (12800 and 25600).
* Dual card slots.
* A touch display.
* Live view.
* USB 3 connectivity.
* Wi-Fi.
* GPS
* An extended maximum bulb shutter time of 60 minutes (up from 34 minutes).
* Optional autofocus.
* Reduced "bulk".
* Weatherproofing.

I hope that the above serves to re-direct the discussion back to the subject of photography (rather than business and marketing) and the more positive aspects of this new line of Hasselblad cameras.

:) ... MomentsForZen (Richard)
So we agree all of the features add to the chip, camera body and lenses which in turn have an impact on your workflow. At this point film and a manual camera with enough effort could produce the same results as digital but the glory of digital streamlined our workflow, gave us a preview of the image and eliminated the wet darkroom and hours of trial and error procedures. That means a new camera or a new body with the same chip or a new chip has to offer features to get old customers buy new products. And when a new camera is 32,000.00 wouldn't you like to know before you buy that camera for $32,000.00 that your not relying on the manufactures promise to add the features you want at a later date with a firmware update leaving you stuck with a depreciating asset.
So it's easy to understand when past experience has proved firmware updates from any camera manufacture (with maybe the exception of Fuji as of recently) are dear. Especially Leica and Hasselblad.
Look at Hasselblad's web site as of yesterday the 50c and 100c are reported being shipped not sure true or not but the cameras specifications still have areas of TBD. I know they been on holiday and there oversold if you didn't pre order your out of luck till 2017!
And as far as the X2D I don't even want to wait in line for a movie ticket at my age, or a table in a resturant let alone till 2019 for a X2D. But there is only so many X1D's available and much more customer demand so the features aren't really needed!
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
... If you're busy it's nice if you can just decide once and get on with other things.
Um, on new, bleeding-edge products: I always just decide once and put in an order. When the product arrives, it arrives. I have orders in on two products that have been in development for over a year; they'll show up eventually. Nothing to rush about, they're just cameras.

Either I wait for them or I cancel the order. Done that with a couple of products, notably an MM246. Glad I did ... I used that money to buy the SL. :)

G
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
So we agree ... your not relying on the manufactures promise to add the features you want at a later date with a firmware update leaving you stuck with a depreciating asset. ...
I don't quite follow all of your logic, but "Buy a camera based on what it does, not what it might do in the future." For sure. And X2D ...? Why bother speculating until there's enough experience with the X1D first?

And aren't you happy that Hasselblad is not releasing the X1D with unfinished firmware so that it actually does everything they've said it would do?

In my experience, Leica and Olympus have both gone beyond expectations with the Olympus E-M1 and Leica SL firmware development. Olympus in particular has released four major fw updates for the E-M1, each delivering useful new features that were not expected. I've never had Hasselblad digital products so can't evaluate their fw update performance. \\

G
 

hcubell

Well-known member
Lots of complaints about a 30-45 day delay between the original shipment date and September 15. Let's compare the reaction if Fuji shows a mock up of a medium format mirrorless body at Photokina for delivery "sometime" in 2017.
 

pflower

Member
Lots of complaints about a 30-45 day delay between the original shipment date and September 15. Let's compare the reaction if Fuji shows a mock up of a medium format mirrorless body at Photokina for delivery "sometime" in 2017.
We all know what the sensor is. It is the same sensor as in the H6D-50c, the same sensor as in the CFV-50c and (I haven't actually checked this but assume it is true) in the H5D-50c. So we know what the pictures are _likely_ to look like unless Hasselblad have completely screwed it up. I have a CFV-50c and am very happy with what it produces. So unless Hasselblad has screwed it up I know what I am likely to get. What is clearly being a problem is how the body works or doesn't. Personally I grew up on manual focus cameras with separate rings for aperture and shutter speed and required an external light meter to determine exposure. We've all seen the UI for the H6D and now know it is pretty well implemented and that the same UI is on the X1D. Auto focus and an internal light meter are to be welcomed. I have no idea how complicated all of this is but it is so far beyond my pay grade I am not going to speculate. When it arrives I will use it for things that I can't do with the Hx- series of cameras. One of the persistent complaints about the H6D-50 is that the spirit level is missing. If that is a problem then go somewhere else. There are lots of cameras which you can purchase with next day delivery off the shelf in a huge number of on-line and actual camera stores that will make very good pictures. The X1D isn't going to make all of them obsolete overnight - so if you don't like the delay just go out and buy something else.. Personally I have ordered and would like mine to arrive tomorrow but if it doesn't - and it won't - it is not going to be the end of my life and I am not going to spend my time worrying about it. In fact I am going out tomorrow with my hopelessly obsolete and useless H3D-39 to make photographs.
 

BANKER1

Member
This thread kind of veered off into what is perceived as spoiled children who whine because they cannot wait for their next toy. For me, however, the subject is more about the way MFD customers are treated by the camera manufacturers. Cameras announced with initial delivery dates are always delayed and delayed without so much as a word from the manufacturers. To me, it isn't about the delays (that we all can endure), but more about respect afforded the people who lay out multi-thousands of dollars for their products. In today's age of electronic communication, the manufacturers have a myriad of ways to communicate with their customers. A single mention on Facebook about the commencement of deliveries of the H6D100 seemed a little terse to me. Knowing the anticipation for this product exhibited on this and other forums, shouldn't Hasselblad have, at least, announced it on their website as well as many other electronic outlets? The only thing I can imagine is that it is possibly a regional mentality in that part of the world that we can't understand in the United States. As a banker for 42 years the only thing we had to offer was service. All banks have the same products, so the only difference between us and the other guy was the level of service we offered. So, for the MFD manufacturers to treat their customers so "seemingly" uncaring, is foreign to me. A simple explanation that, for instance, they were working to make sure the firmware was as perfect as they could make it before release would have been welcomed.

In my area, large building projects would go on ad infinitum if the owners did not say, "We are moving in on so and so date, so you better be finished by then." I have a feeling that the camera manufacturers don't have the courage to say that, so the engineers soldier on seeking perfection. When my son was in college he always told me about the law of diminishing returns and the work it takes getting from a B to an A. That last 1% sometimes takes more effort than the previous 99%, so can't we just settle for 99.9%. This may also be true for trivial features that are really only icing on the cake. I guess what it boils down to is respect for your customers.

Greg
 

CSP

New member
For me, however, the subject is more about the way MFD customers are treated by the camera manufacturers. Cameras announced with initial delivery dates are always delayed and delayed without so much as a word from the manufacturers.
Greg
maybe the reason is that this companies are more dedicated to please the money people which keep them alive than their customers. hasselblad for example had a very good partner network for repairs in germany but they killed it so now everthings has to go to sweden, guess what is the result ?
 

KeithL

Well-known member
Anyone can miss a deadline, hell, I've done it myself more than once.

What I find puzzling is that Hasselblad can introduce such an exciting camera and yet miss or overlook the importance of a simple cabled release.
 

DrakeJ

New member
Anyone can miss a deadline, hell, I've done it myself more than once.

What I find puzzling is that Hasselblad can introduce such an exciting camera and yet miss or overlook the importance of a simple cabled release.
Feel free to press the shutter through your phone or other device. It has Wi-Fi.
 
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