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Hasselblad X1D

And the S system, which I had for a while, is likely to take a big hit from the x1d if it meets expectations. Admittedly Ming Thein is a Hassy ambassador, but he said in his first impressions of an early FW version
"The EVF. It’s good enough – no, not as good as the Leica SL, but I honestly don’t see that much of a difference between this and my Leica Q in terms of detail, either. Refresh rate is a little bit lower, but comparable to the M4/3 cameras in the normal speed setting, significantly faster than the H6’s live view, and another planet from the H5’s live view. It needs contrast and brightness adjustment, but that’s coming in future firmware."

We'll see.
So, the Hasselblad Ambasador finds it o.k. and the Leica Dealer is disappointed : honi soit qui mal y pense. I have read Mings opinion, and asked myself, how is it possible that the opinions can vary that much … (in general, I appreciate both Mings and David Farkas point of views and articles). Ah, and I loved your articles on your own blog … but it seems, that EVF experiences will always be highly subjective, at least, until the technology/computer power has reached its peak.



I agree that the X1D probably will hurt the Leica S sales, but for other reasons than the viewfinder (price, compactness, MP, etc.)
 
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ErikKaffehr

Well-known member
Hi,

One problem with the OVF is that you mostly need mirror lockup to get full sharpness out of the lens and with MLU you don't see anything. No great problem for a landscape shooter like me.

OVF doesn't give a lot of magnification, I use a 3X magnifier on mine. With EVF you press a button and have 12X magnification.

Yes, I feel OVF works much better in bright light than EVF where shadows tend to block up.

So advantages and disadvantages to both.

It seems that folks used to EVF appreciate it more with time.

Best regards
Erik

Seems that the oldies have some problems with fresh opinions …:thumbdown:

Welcome FRAN to the forum, your opinions are welcome …:thumbup:

To the topic of EVF: I have to admit that I have not had the chance to look through the X1D EVF. Where I live, I simply have no access to Hassis. There seem to be a lot of very, very different opinions about the EVF experience. I am curious though to see how this topic (EVF in MF) is going in the near future on a more general level.

On the risk to be insulted as Leica fanboy, I would like to cite some opinions of Leica people on the issue: David Farkas (Leica dealer Miami) personal impression of the X1D during his visit at Photokina (Leica forum) and some excerpts from an interview with Leica Staff which you can find on Leica rumor site.

David Farkas: "The X1D? I tried one at the Hasselblad booth at Photokina. It was disappointing. Low quality EVF with washed out and pixelated view ...."

and


Stefan Schulz (Leica Global Director Business Unit Professional): For the moment, just like what we already said. You need to take a quick look at the viewfinder. Current medium format cameras have slow frame rates, so after you take a picture, you see nothing. S system is showing instant image. As long as there is no technology for medium format available that gives instant images like this, we will not change."

Dr. Andreas Kauffman (Leica Board Chairman): "I think. Usually I don’t talk about competitors, but we don't completely see them (Hasselblad and Fuji mirrorless) as competitors. When you saw the press release regarding Hasselblad mirrorless, and you read specs for the viewfinder. It is small. My personal opinion is that you can’t do it in medium format with viewfinder with 2 point whatever. To me, it is bad quality."

You may not be interested in opinions of Leica Staff or Leica dealers on competition products, but I think their business philosophy is interesting. What they are basically saying is, that at the moment it is not possible to put a satisfying EFV in a MF camera (whatever "satisfying" means for you). And one has to remember that Leica, at this point of time, has the best FF EVF at hand (in their Leica SL).
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Seems some folks expect pioneering camera tech to leap out of the womb full grown ... ouch! :ROTFL:

Someone has to take the first steps, and it appears Hasselblad and Fuji are doing just that. Good for them!

Personally, I suspected that refresh rates would be the challenge for a larger sensor ... we'll have to see how that may improve over time. Contrast can be adjusted with firmware, so we'll have to wait less time to see how that works out in improving the e-viewfinder experience.

For me, EVF has been a love/hate sort of thing. Lowlight grainy smear, overly contrasty in bright conditions, have to switch in the menu for effect on/off when using lighting, can't immediately see last shot without freezing the eye-viewfinder, etc. However, seeing what you get is great, as is the ability to zoom waaaaaay in for critical focus.

I still prefer OVF, and find little deficiencies for my work ...

Hassey ambassadors say thumbs up, competitors say the opposite ... what? Did anyone expect Leica to heap praise on the very camera that may well eventually bite into their business?

Truth be told, it isn't new tech or more meg, or anything of the sort that'll bite the Leica S ... it's the quality and deplorable service issue.

- Marc
 
V

Vivek

Guest
On the risk to be insulted as Leica fanboy, I would like to cite some opinions of Leica people on the issue: David Farkas (Leica dealer Miami) personal impression of the X1D during his visit at Photokina (Leica forum) and some excerpts from an interview with Leica Staff which you can find on Leica rumor site.

David Farkas: "The X1D? I tried one at the Hasselblad booth at Photokina. It was disappointing. Low quality EVF with washed out and pixelated view ...."

and


Stefan Schulz (Leica Global Director Business Unit Professional): For the moment, just like what we already said. You need to take a quick look at the viewfinder. Current medium format cameras have slow frame rates, so after you take a picture, you see nothing. S system is showing instant image. As long as there is no technology for medium format available that gives instant images like this, we will not change."

Dr. Andreas Kauffman (Leica Board Chairman): "I think. Usually I don’t talk about competitors, but we don't completely see them (Hasselblad and Fuji mirrorless) as competitors. When you saw the press release regarding Hasselblad mirrorless, and you read specs for the viewfinder. It is small. My personal opinion is that you can’t do it in medium format with viewfinder with 2 point whatever. To me, it is bad quality."
Thanks for the post!

Now, I am getting interested in the X1D. :)
 

PeterA

Well-known member
I flipped the 'off' button on the camera - as soon as I got some idea of the specs for its EVF....once you have used an SL quality EVF - there is no going back. Mirror is still the best in MF land as far as viewing experience goes. But hey! A lot of folks will think it is just fine enough and enjoy all the other benefits of the camera- of which there are many. Perfection is a myth until it is obsoleted.
 

Fran

New member
Re: Important notice

Important notice :

So, long story short, I was on the phone with Hasselblad France CEO for about an hour. While we spoke on the product (I will come later on this point) we mentioned forums and other things.

First point : The yesterday leak (from a shop).

Hasselblad is utterly angry and the person (or moral person) will be sued by the hard way.

Second point : The defamatory posts :

Hasselblad (world) are just bored by the forums but very attentive too. There is a new law in Europe as well in US who will permit Hassy to pursue people or moral persons bashing wrongly the hassy products or making any kind of defamatory posts about hassy products. It is new and will be applied. Hearing the guy himself... I trust them. In a way, I completely agree with this principle.

**********************************************​

On the product now:

The X1-D early testing samples will be sent almost every where by the start of July, date where I probably get my hands on it if planets align correctly.
The X1-D is priced €7900 without VAT. The 45mm less than 2K without VAT and the 90mm a bit more than 2K without VAT and the later 30mm a bit less than 3K without VAT. The adaptor will be around €300 without VAT and will work only with Hasselblad LS lenses. This 30mm will be "stargazing" as he told me.
There is no plan for now on another lenses, probably 2017.
The lenses are made by the same manufacturer as the Xpan lenses, in Japan.

The waiting list will be long because Sony sensor manufactures are down. This is why the CVF50 is temporary discontinued; they need to focus effort on the X1-D sensor.

Thats all for now :)




Well.. hi Hasselblad! Here i am!:watch::watch::watch:

🙄🙄🙄

Tomorrow i will arrive to my house and i will explain better my impressions.

Have a nice day!
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
Seems that the oldies have some problems with fresh opinions …:thumbdown:

Welcome FRAN to the forum, your opinions are welcome …:thumbup:

To the topic of EVF: I have to admit that I have not had the chance to look through the X1D EVF. Where I live, I simply have no access to Hassis. There seem to be a lot of very, very different opinions about the EVF experience. I am curious though to see how this topic (EVF in MF) is going in the near future on a more general level.

On the risk to be insulted as Leica fanboy, I would like to cite some opinions of Leica people on the issue: David Farkas (Leica dealer Miami) personal impression of the X1D during his visit at Photokina (Leica forum) and some excerpts from an interview with Leica Staff which you can find on Leica rumor site.

David Farkas: "The X1D? I tried one at the Hasselblad booth at Photokina. It was disappointing. Low quality EVF with washed out and pixelated view ...."

and


Stefan Schulz (Leica Global Director Business Unit Professional): For the moment, just like what we already said. You need to take a quick look at the viewfinder. Current medium format cameras have slow frame rates, so after you take a picture, you see nothing. S system is showing instant image. As long as there is no technology for medium format available that gives instant images like this, we will not change."

Dr. Andreas Kauffman (Leica Board Chairman): "I think. Usually I don’t talk about competitors, but we don't completely see them (Hasselblad and Fuji mirrorless) as competitors. When you saw the press release regarding Hasselblad mirrorless, and you read specs for the viewfinder. It is small. My personal opinion is that you can’t do it in medium format with viewfinder with 2 point whatever. To me, it is bad quality."

You may not be interested in opinions of Leica Staff or Leica dealers on competition products, but I think their business philosophy is interesting. What they are basically saying is, that at the moment it is not possible to put a satisfying EFV in a MF camera (whatever "satisfying" means for you). And one has to remember that Leica, at this point of time, has the best FF EVF at hand (in their Leica SL).
What interests me most about this post is how competitors react to new competition. Usually when a company goes out of their way to be dismissive or dealers go out of their way to bash - then you know that a company has a potential winner on their hands. Case in point many people overwhelmingly bashed the Sony FE cameras, which while unrefined in the first generation, were serious game changers for being quite affordable FF mirrorless cameras. The same could be said when Nikon released the D800/800E and Canon released the 5DmkI/mkII.

Like Vivek said Leica going out of their way to address the X1D says a lot more about the potential homerun that the X1D (or GFX 50S for that matter) could be. On some level it seems like the closest competition for these cameras are the premium FF cameras like the Leica SL, 5Ds/5Dsr, and the entry level MF cameras from Pentax, Phase One, Leica S, and Hasselblad. Maybe Leica will need to restructure pricing with the X1D coming in the price range that it is. One could get a Leica SL and prime lens for about the same price as a X1D and a prime... I'd probably choose the MF option myself in that comparison.
 
Hi,

One problem with the OVF is that you mostly need mirror lockup to get full sharpness out of the lens and with MLU you don't see anything. No great problem for a landscape shooter like me.

OVF doesn't give a lot of magnification, I use a 3X magnifier on mine. With EVF you press a button and have 12X magnification.

Yes, I feel OVF works much better in bright light than EVF where shadows tend to block up.

So advantages and disadvantages to both.

It seems that folks used to EVF appreciate it more with time.

Best regards
Erik
My personal experiences with EVF come from Sony RX-1 and Olympus OMD-EM1. Sure it's all about trade-offs. For me, the most important plus is quick control of exposure compensation and (for manual lenses) focus control. With the Leica S you have to do this with LV on a tripod which is for most landscape photography a non-issue. The vibration issue is a concern, even with MLU for some MF cameras with FPS, this is a clear plus for the XD1. For composition, the OVF is way better. And last but not least, the mere viewing experience, I am an amateur and enjoy the process of photography, it is not all only about functionality. Therefore, my tendency has been different. I appreciate OVF even more after using EVF a longer time. On the other hand, I did not have the chance to use de Leica SL yet.

If the Fuji really has a better EVF (4 MP and better refresh rate) than the XD1, this would be a big selling point for them … again, lets wait for first X1D tests with "final" firmware
 
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hcubell

Well-known member
The EVF on the X1D may be fine for some. For others, it may not. We all know what our needs are and how we prioritize various things. One thing that I would NOT pay attention to is the opinion of Leica management and Leica dealers about the X1D. They were a very negative and defensive crew at Photokina.
 

ErikKaffehr

Well-known member
Hi,

Last time I shot OVF and EVF side by side was a walk to Tre Cime de Laveredeo back in 2013. Nowdays I mostly shoot A7rII and Hasselblad V. The A7rII is a great win for bagging the shoot. I am not so sure about OVF vs. EVF. EVF shows the actual image coming of the sensor, it is a bit of what you see is what you get. OVF needs stopping down for what you see is what you get viewing.

Focusing with EVF using magnified live view is vastly superior to OVF, at least in my experience.

Shooting sports or birds in flight I would appreciate OVF, I think, for most other things I would feel that EVF may be preferable.

Best regards
Erik


My personal experiences with EVF come from Sony RX-1 and Olympus OMD-EM1. Sure it's all about trade-offs. For me, the most important plus is quick control of exposure compensation and (for manual lenses) focus control. With the Leica S you have to do this with LV on a tripod which is for most landscape photography a non-issue. The vibration issue is a concern, even with MLU for some MF cameras with FPS, this is a clear plus for the XD1. For composition, the OVF is way better. And last but not least, the mere viewing experience, I am an amateur and enjoy the process of photography, it is not all only about functionality. Therefore, my tendency has been different. I appreciate OVF even more after using EVF a longer time. On the other hand, I did not have the chance to use de Leica SL yet.

If the Fuji really has a better EVF (4 MP and better refresh rate) than the XD1, this would be a big selling point for them … again, lets wait for first X1D tests with "final" firmware
 

Greenaa

New member
I agree with Ming. I've just used an X1D this week. While I was never an EVF fan, I could probably deal with this one to get this level of portability and image quality. My eyes were affected by color tearing with the Leica Q EVF and while the SL EVF is nice, the ergonomics of that camera are not very good. The X1D is absolutely spot on in terms of the hardware design - you can hold it and shoot it in one hand if you want without any fatigue for the whole day. It's a beautifully executed piece of hardware - body and lenses. I am an M9 shooter and it's scarily close in all dimensions to that camera (except for a bit more height, which is welcome).

Honestly, at this point it's not the EVF which concerns me the most, but the fluidity, stability and overall operating speed of the firmware, which is wholly inadequate at the moment. This is clearly why they're holding back delivery until mid- to late-November.

ACG


And the S system, which I had for a while, is likely to take a big hit from the x1d if it meets expectations. Admittedly Ming Thein is a Hassy ambassador, but he said in his first impressions of an early FW version
"The EVF. It’s good enough – no, not as good as the Leica SL, but I honestly don’t see that much of a difference between this and my Leica Q in terms of detail, either. Refresh rate is a little bit lower, but comparable to the M4/3 cameras in the normal speed setting, significantly faster than the H6’s live view, and another planet from the H5’s live view. It needs contrast and brightness adjustment, but that’s coming in future firmware."

We'll see.
 

D&A

Well-known member
Joe Wrote --->>>"I'm scanning the manual for other obvious changes from the announcement"<<<

I assume both political parties here in the States are feverously doing the exact same thing. Looking for those morsels of discrepancies...LOL!

Actually anytime a camera like this and eventually the Fuji are about to be released, its an exciting time to read, then test, dissect and share every aspect to get a jump of usability, strengths, weaknesses, bugs and of course ideas on extracting the most performance from the system. That's part of the excitement and anticipation of course. As for GPS, it's hard to imagine it will be ignored, especially that this camera begs to be used as a serious travel camera/system.

Dave (D&A)
 

algrove

Well-known member
Thanks for the link. GPS seems conspicuous by its absence. It's mentioned in the original spec sheet but not in the manual. Capture rate shown as "TBD" in manual and as 1.7 - 2.3 frames per second in original spec. I'm scanning the manual for other obvious changes from the announcement.

Joe
Joe, it seems now is the time to get a Bad Elf and be done with it. Excellent little device that rapidly acquires sometimes up to 15 sats.:thumbup:
 

DougDolde

Well-known member
I just realized for the $26000 cost of upgrading my IQ180 to the IQ3-100 I could buy TWO X1D bodies and the 30mm, 45mm and 90mm lenses. ($27000 list). And I'd still own the IQ180. Seems like a no brainer.

Phase One upgrade pricing is a rip off
 
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