The GetDPI Photography Forum

Great to see you here. Join our insightful photographic forum today and start tapping into a huge wealth of photographic knowledge. Completing our simple registration process will allow you to gain access to exclusive content, add your own topics and posts, share your work and connect with other members through your own private inbox! And don’t forget to say hi!

Mamiya RZ67 Pro II (non-D) digital back options

joshcomley

New member
Hi all,

I've got a Mamiya RZ67 Pro II (non-D) being delivered tomorrow, and whilst I am happy to develop I thought it would be interesting to investigate digital backs.

I have read almost everything I can find on the internet about this, but it is still a little confusing.

This question was recently asked, very similar:
http://www.getdpi.com/forum/medium-...et-into-mfd-minimal-money-my-rz67-pro-ii.html

As far as I can conclude:

ANY digital back less than (probably £3,000 is going to have poor low light performance (due to older CCD sensors)
EVERY digital back is going to crop the flip out of my photos and I can forget the nice 6x7 size that I bought it for

In addition, if I adapt my non-D Pro II for Mamiya digital backs, I lose the ability to load film, which I don't want.

This was a useful resource:
https://www.phaseone.com/en/Search/Article.aspx?articleid=1123&languageid=1

Essentially I can use the Hassleblad V systems and avoid having to adapt the camera and sacrifice film.

So, my questions!

1 - Forgetting money and just in fantasy land, what is the best possible digital back I could buy today for my RZ67 Pro II?

2 - And at the other end of the spectrum - forgetting entirely any consideration for quality - what is the cheapest possible digital back set-up I could get for my RZ67 Pro II that doesn't sacrifice the film capability?
 
You don't sacrifice film capability. All you need is a specific adapter plate and one shot cable for the digital back.
What you need to decide is how you are going to work around shooting film and digital, since you need to install a 645 mask in the viewfinder of RZ67 to compose for the digital, and remove it to compose for film.

I personally really wanted P65+, but had to settle for IQ160. Both are near full size medium format (645). Going to P30/40/45 or IQ140 will crop your work even further, and with RZ lenses you can't go wider than 37mm.

People here are surely more on the ball to answer the prices, so I hope you will be able to find some compromise.

Regards
 

joshcomley

New member
Hi Krosavcheg,

Thank you for your reply.

From what I read if I use the Hasselblad adapter I don't lose film, but according to this Phase One page, specifically for the Pro II non-D:

-Mamiya fitting-
P/P+ series Mamiya fitting can also be used with the the Mamiya adapter (Item number 70994). Note:
The Mamiya RZ PRO II needs to be modifyed in a local Mamiya center. The image below show 2 small notches that have to be made. If these notches are not made - the adapter can be mounted however the camera cannot trigger at all.
I think I will have different sessions on different days, so one day digital and another dedicated to film; out of curiosity how difficult is it to install/remove the mask?

The best I can find for the RZ67 is the Hasselblad CFV-50c, which still crops and has a 43.8 x 32.9mm, but it's £7,000 :cry::cry::cry:
 

bensonga

Well-known member
Hi Josh,

This thread contains some very useful information about which Mamiya adapter plate to use with your RZ67 ProII (non-D). It is the HX705.

http://www.getdpi.com/forum/medium-format-systems-and-digital-backs/34524-df-rz.html

There was a lot of confusion on that thread about which adapter plate to use and whether any modifications to a particular plate was needed for various reasons, so you'll have to sort thru it and see where things landed.

The ProIID uses the HX701, which has the electronic communication to the back and camera built into the adapter, so a sync cable to the lens is not needed. I gave my RZ67 ProII to a friend and picked up a new ProIID and the HX701 adapter a couple of years ago, with the intent/hope of someday getting a digital back for it. I recently purchased a Phase One P30+ back from the GetDPI member PSon (thank you!) and in fact, it just arrived here at my office 30 minute ago, so I'm looking forward to trying it out soon.

Unfortunately, there is just no way to get around a crop from the 6x7 film to a 6x4.5 (or smaller) digital sensor at this point in time. I certainly could not afford a "full frame" 645 sensor, but I wanted the next best thing which is a 36x48mm sensor (1.1x crop factor from FF645). I have seen Mamiya, Leaf and Phase One backs of this size in 22 and 33 megapixel varieties selling for $3,000 to $5,000 recently. You can get an older back in the smaller 33x44mm size (1.3x crop factor from FF645) for somewhat less.

Although I still plan was to use the P25+ on the RZ67, I also decided to get a Mamiya 645 AFD II and a few AF lenses, just to have a camera which is slightly more portable and designed for the 645 format.

Good luck finding all you need and an affordable digital back for your RZ! There are some excellent photos shot with the RZ and various digital backs posted in the "Fun with MF Images" and "fat pixel digital backs" threads here on GetDPI.

Gary
 

joshcomley

New member
Hi Gary,

Thank you I'll definitely read through that thread!

Thanks also for clarifying that right now there is no way to get the good old 6x7 in a digital sensor; it seems a shame, maybe we'll get there in a few more years :) I am particularly intrigued by the new Hasselblad X1D, but even that is still "only" 33x44mm.

The P65+ looks interesting, too, with a sensor size of 53.9mm x 40.4mm, but it's $10,000 used at the only place I can find it right now :)

Medium format is certainly an interesting if confusing world for cameras these days!

I am also tempted to get a Mamiya 645 AFD II as it is more portable, I'm not sure I'll ever get rid of my RZ67 unless to upgrade to IID, because it's just such a beautiful, capable camera.

Thanks again,
Josh
 
Josh

I wouldn't think that making notches for the mounting of digital back adaptor would prevent the film back from mounting.
One thing I can think of is that depending on how notches are made it may create light leak points that will obviously affect shooting with a film back. Though, any light leaks would equally affect the digital back, so it's somewhat unlikely.

I recall seeing something in regard to this long time ago on the web. Best to check with a techie.
 

joshcomley

New member
Josh

I wouldn't think that making notches for the mounting of digital back adaptor would prevent the film back from mounting.
One thing I can think of is that depending on how notches are made it may create light leak points that will obviously affect shooting with a film back. Though, any light leaks would equally affect the digital back, so it's somewhat unlikely.

I recall seeing something in regard to this long time ago on the web. Best to check with a techie.
Hi, thanks for the reply. I somehow missed it!

I read on a Phase site that:

"The Mamiya RZ PRO II needs to be modifyed in a local Mamiya center. The image below show 2 small notches that have to be made. If these notches are not made - the adapter can be mounted however the camera cannot trigger at all.
Once this modification has been done - the camerabody cannot be used with a film cassette."

I am not sure if this is 100% correct, but it worries me about putting Mamiya digital backs on it.
 
Hi, thanks for the reply. I somehow missed it!

I read on a Phase site that:

"The Mamiya RZ PRO II needs to be modifyed in a local Mamiya center. The image below show 2 small notches that have to be made. If these notches are not made - the adapter can be mounted however the camera cannot trigger at all.
Once this modification has been done - the camerabody cannot be used with a film cassette."

I am not sure if this is 100% correct, but it worries me about putting Mamiya digital backs on it.
I would trust the article on the matter.
In this case, looks like the best option for you is to go with ProIID.
 

warpath

New member
K created an account just to help clear things up.

First, there seems to be two versions of the HX701 adapter plate. One with a notch and one without. I'm guessing the one without the notch is an older version and that's the adapter that needs to be modified as shown by Sheldon N in this picture.




And here's a picture of the two different versions. Pulled from the internet. I have the second version with the notch.




As for Phase One's site saying it...

"needs to be modified in a local Mamiya Center...Once this modification has been done - the camerabody cannot be used with a film cassette."

I believe what they are meaning is maybe the physical removal of the dark slide pins, which would disrupt the film functionality.

Sheldon N has shown instead, you can just simply dremel the adapter. This way it affects the body in no way and can still function with film backs without a problem.

I think this confusion and blurb on Phase One's site is intentional by the way. Not gonna get into this now.

Let me make this clear, YOU DO NOT LOOSE THE ABILITY TO USE FILM BACKS ON THE RZ WHEN GOING DIGITAL

Now back to the adapter plates...

There is the HX701 without and with a notch which I'll refer to as HX701v1 and HX701v2. And there is the HX705 adapter (It does exist, I have it). The HX701 adapters have contacts for use with the Pro IID. The HX701v2 can be used with the Pro II (non-D) WITHOUT modification but needs a sync cable. The HX701v1 can also be used with the Pro II (non-D) but needs to be modified as shown by Sheldon N, and also still require a sync cable. The HX705 should work with all RZ bodies with again a sync cable. Here's a picture of the HX705.



As for the digital back mount type, the HX70x adapters are all for M-mount digital backs. So for the Pro II (non-D), you should consider getting a digital back (M-Mount) that DOESN'T need to be woken up, e.g. Leaf Aptus II or Phase One P65+, so all that would be needed is one sync cable.

Now if you want to use a digital back that DOES need to be woken up, e.g. Phase One P25/P25+ or P45/P45+, then I think your best bet is using the Phase One adapter (item no. 70964) shown below. Remember this would need a digital back with a V-Mount. This option has both a wake cable and sync cable, so 2 cables.



If you do not want the need for a sync and/or wake cable, then you'd go with a Pro IID body, HX701 adapter, and an M-Mount digital back (There seems to be a battery drain issue with this set up though).

I have both the HX701v2 and HX705 adapter with a Leaf back and confirm its usage on the Pro II (non-D).

Long post, I need a drink...

Hope this finally clears things up.

Cheers
 

warpath

New member
K created an account just to help clear things up.

First, there seems to be two versions of the HX701 adapter plate. One with a notch and one without. I'm guessing the one without the notch is an older version and that's the adapter that needs to be modified as shown by Sheldon N in this picture.




And here's a picture of the two different versions (Thanks Google). I have the second version with the notch.




As for Phase One's site saying it...

"needs to be modified in a local Mamiya Center...Once this modification has been done - the camerabody cannot be used with a film cassette."

I believe what they are meaning is maybe the physical removal of the dark slide pins, which would disrupt the film functionality.

Sheldon N has shown instead, you can just simply dremel the adapter. This way it affects the body in no way and can still function with film backs without a problem.

I think this confusion and blurb on Phase One's site is intentional by the way. Not gonna get into this now.

Let me make this clear, YOU DO NOT LOOSE THE ABILITY TO USE FILM BACKS ON THE RZ WHEN GOING DIGITAL

Now back to the adapter plates...

There is the HX701 without and with a notch which I'll refer to as HX701v1 and HX701v2. And there is the HX705 adapter (It does exist, I have it). The HX701 adapters have contacts for use with the Pro IID. The HX701v2 can be used with the Pro II (non-D) WITHOUT modification but needs a sync cable. The HX701v1 can also be used with the Pro II (non-D) but needs to be modified as shown by Sheldon N, and also still require a sync cable. The HX705 should work with all RZ bodies with again a sync cable. Here's a picture of the HX705 (Notice same notch).



As for the digital back mount type, the HX70x adapters are all for M-mount digital backs. So for the Pro II (non-D), you should consider getting a digital back (M-Mount) that DOESN'T need to be woken up, e.g. Leaf Aptus II or Phase One P65+, so all that would be needed is one sync cable.

Now if you want to use a digital back that DOES need to be woken up, e.g. Phase One P25/P25+ or P45/P45+, then I think your best bet is using the Phase One adapter (item no. 70964) shown below.



Remember this would need a digital back with a V-Mount. This option uses both a wake cable and sync cable, so 2 cables. Also, this adapter doesn't allow for rotating the back. You must physically remove the back and re-mount the back in the orientation you want. Whereas the HX70x adapter plates still allow you to rotate the back (On a side note, before attaching the HX70x adapter plate to the body, you have to rotate the back first. So rotating with a digital back will now go counter-clockwise vs. clockwise with a film back).

Leaf also has adapter plates, but I believe it can only be used with their Aptus backs. To use with say the Credo, I believe it has to be physically modified. This option also needs a sync cable.

If you do not want the need for a sync and/or wake cable, then I'd say go with a Pro IID body, HX701 adapter, and an M-Mount digital back (There seems to be a battery drain issue with this though).

I have both the HX701v2 and HX705 adapter with a Leaf back and confirm that it works on the Pro II (non-D) body.

Long post, I need a drink...

Hope this helped clears things up.

Cheers,
W
 
Last edited:

MrDen

New member
Just one word to say: THANK YOU WARPATH

I was looking for this answer for years, and i don't even know how you found it, cause, trust me, i've been searching, and dig the all internet.
Now, i know i have a HX701 version 1.
I knew for the HX705, but i suspected a "bizarrerie" with the 701, cause i already had in my hand one 701 that works, and an other one that don't, between a D and non D. I never understood why, now i know. And i should have kept the first one 701, i obtained for a real bargain haha :shocked:
But hey, that's obvious, 2 versions of the same model :thumbup:

Warpath :clap: :clap: :clap:
 

retrofilm

New member
K created an account just to help clear things up.
There is the HX701 without and with a notch which I'll refer to as HX701v1 and HX701v2. And there is the HX705 adapter (It does exist, I have it). The HX701 adapters have contacts for use with the Pro IID. The HX701v2 can be used with the Pro II (non-D) WITHOUT modification but needs a sync cable. The HX701v1 can also be used with the Pro II (non-D) but needs to be modified as shown by Sheldon N, and also still require a sync cable. The HX705 should work with all RZ bodies with again a sync cable. Here's a picture of the HX705...

Now if you want to use a digital back that DOES need to be woken up, e.g. Phase One P25/P25+ or P45/P45+, then I think your best bet is using the Phase One adapter (item no. 70964) shown below. Remember this would need a digital back with a V-Mount. This option has both a wake cable and sync cable, so 2 cables.
Ok, thank you for that information. :) I could really use some clarification on a point I don't believe is covered anywhere and we've searched high and low and the companies did not make it easy to figure out. Any help is appreciated!

If you have a Hasselblad V mount back say from Phase One like the IQ140, IQ160 etc there is an adapter for the Mamiya RZ67 called the Phase One Mamiya rz67 for lightphase adapter 70964 with a cable on it (see link below). This is not the Mamiya M mount route mentioned above using the hx701 adapter, but the alternative to it. It is attractive because though it has a cable/s it should work in theory for Hasselblad V and RZ67 glass users. In any case...

This is the trouble
What I can't find is a difinitive answer on is which exact model RZ67s will work with this Phase One V mount to RZ67 adapter and if any modifications are needed? For example does this adapter work with the PRO, PRO ii or PRO iiD? Do any of these bodies need to be modified and how can it be done today? This I mean in terms of attaching to the body and then connecting the cables. The adapter cable looks like a 4 pin connector (aux electronic shutter release contact) but does not have a pc sync cable, so that sort of looks straightforward, but is not clear. Does PO adapter attach to all three models? What about the cables? Also is there any practical reason/necessity to go with a particular PRO, PRO II or PRO IID body over the others? Can anyone add to the great info Warpath put up? We're lost where he left off. Our studio is down for digital backs for now and we could use some help on this (kind of desperate and many thousands invested). Thank you to all!

70964 adapter https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/phase-one-70964-digital-adapter-1791771131

RZ67 PRO II manual pg 4 (pdf. pg 6) shows the auxiliary cable insert (lower left opposite the shutter release) http://www.mamiyaleaf.com/assets/files/documentation/RZ67PROII_Instr.pdf & and pic of one

RZ67 PRO (original version) - looks like the same aux electronic shutter release contacts

Phase One page says (not sure this is accurate) that PRO IID needs mods but not PRO II and they're not helpful on the phone
https://www.phaseone.com/en/search/article?articleid=1123&languageid=
 
Last edited:

retrofilm

New member
"which exact model RZ67s will work with this Phase One V mount to RZ67 adapter and if any modifications are needed?"

After a lot of research and trial and error we can report that the v mount digital backs work on the RZ67 PRO I model cameras when used with the Phase One Mamiya rz67 for lightphase adapter 70964. The plug on the left goes into the aux slot on the left and the other pc sync cable for the digital back goes into the lens or hotshoe adapter for flash. No modifications needed.

As others have reported the RZ67 has some drawbacks:
it has a crop factor on the digital backs (all version)
you must use two cables and you have to detach the back to rotate (on some adapters. This exposes the sensor)
the thing weighs too much and is not portable (for most people)

On the v system there is no noticeable crop (compared to the Mamiya it's akin to a crop view on a APS-C sensor i.e. Mamiya cropped versus full frame pov on the Hasselblad)
It needs only one cable.

Why use the PRO II?
It might be the features the PRO II with fine focus tuning and half speeds along with a newer system make it more attractive but in terms of functionality the PRO I back works with the Phase One digital backs. You do not need a PRO II or a PRO IID to make the digital back work. Adapter 70964 fits with this camera version. These easily cost $600 for a nice PRO II and $600 for the adapter.

Why use the PRO IID?
This is the most expensive option as the camera itself is upwards of $1,200 alone in good condition. There is the one cable if using the HX-701 and it allows rotation without removing the back a big plus. Not all adapters fit and it looks like it's easier to use with Mamiya M mount cameras because the HX-701 was designed to attach but these sell round $1,000. This mount does not fit the Hasselblad V system, losing out on that great system as well. From what we've seen the RZ67 will work with adapter 70994 (not common) and also 70964 if the body has been modified to fit it (see holes in pics in other posts). Either of these would allow the v mounts to work on the RZ67.

This article referenced by others is reposted here and seems to be accurate at least from what we've seen. This is a complicated and time consuming setting that at times makes you wonder why not just shoot film (only) but the IQ backs are really very good. Hopefully this helps someone! :)

We might have missed something so if you would like to add or make a correction it is welcome!

https://www.phaseone.com/en/search/article?articleid=1123&languageid=
 
Last edited:
Top