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Tilt question?

0beone

Active member
Given only 2 lenses on Cambo WRS:
Rodenstock 70 HR-W
Rodenstock 40 HR-W
Using IQ-260

And my favorite genre being landscape / city architecture.

Which lens of the above two is your favorite in each situation and how often do you use tilt?

I am asking the question because I am needing to understand more the real-world application (of tilt) and just know that this is the place to ask all you experts...
Before I go spend a whole pile of more money....

Regards
Frank
 

Paul2660

Well-known member
When using a tech camera (I use Arca), tilt is always in play for me. I prefer very deep DOF, thus I want my foreground as sharp as possible, and with MF tilt helps a lot here. Even the 28HR benefited from tilt when I used it.

With the 32 and 40mm, I pretty much always have tilt added. Most times the top of the image is sky, thus loss of sharpness not an issue.

On the Arca, the difference in just 1/2 a degree of tilt can be impressive.

Paul C
 

stngoldberg

Well-known member
Hi Paul,
I find on my Arca the weight of the 32mm Rodie makes it difficult to keep the tilt at a 1 degree setting. The sheer force of gravity forces the lens down; for some reason on my Arca the resistance to tilt is only sufficient on the 0 setting.
I sent the camera to precision for an adjustment, but they could not get Arca to respond to a fix.
Do you have the same problem?
Stanley
 

Paul2660

Well-known member
Hello Stanley,

If I add the CF and a Lee wide angle ring then yes the Arca will have trouble holding at 1/2, but I can get it to stay at 1. I have also used gaffers tape to keep the dial from moving in the field. (fixes anything from Arca to Phase One XF issues)


I did send camera back to Rod K, who did tighten the tilt swing ring. But if there is any weak link to the design on the rm3di, it would be this issue.

Disappointing to hear that Precision could not fix this issue and that Arca seemingly made no response.

Paul C
 

stngoldberg

Well-known member
Paul,
You are so helpful...gaffers tape is a great solution....I had been holding the dail at 1 degree with my left hand while using the cable with my right hand...problem was when adjusting the shutter setting for proper exposure, I would need a third hand
Thank you again
Stanley
 

kdphotography

Well-known member
Frank,

I have both the HR40 and HR70 both with t/s panels on Cambo WRS. Tilt is used frequently, often just 1 degree. The HR40 is on my Cambo the most. Given a choice that is my favorite lens. The HR70 behaves very similarly to the HR40, making it also extremely easy to use.

Worried about spending a whole lot of money? Too late.... Have you tried the HR32 Paul and Stan are talking about, or how about the new 90? :grin:

ken
 

stngoldberg

Well-known member
Hi Frank,
I use tilt on 99% of my images. If you are most interested in landscape and architecture, tilt improves most images.
Focus stacking fails on many landscape images because of wind movement.
Tilt is helpful on architecture because you can see when tethered, how tilt altered the images
Stanley
 

stngoldberg

Well-known member
Frank,
Attached you will notice the amazing DOF as a result of one degree of tilt on a 32mm Rodenstork at f8
Stanley
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Both of those lenses were my main goto's when I shot tech -- in fact, the main 3 I used were those plus the SK 120. I used tilts with all of them all the time for landscape. Used swing and rise mostly with the 40 for architecture. If you can only get one, I'd go for the 40 first, but you will own the 70 before long anyway :D
 

vjbelle

Well-known member
I find on my Arca the weight of the 32mm Rodie makes it difficult to keep the tilt at a 1 degree setting. The sheer force of gravity forces the lens down; for some reason on my Arca the resistance to tilt is only sufficient on the 0 setting.
I sent the camera to precision for an adjustment, but they could not get Arca to respond to a fix.

Stanley
This was one of my biggest complaints regarding both Alpa's and Acra's. The lens has to be mounted forward causing unequal weight distribution. The Alpa tilt mechanism is more robust than the Arca's but no matter what the lens is just too far in front. This was another reason for my switching to the Actus as all lenses are weight centered on the copal 0 mounting plate and they are somewhat yaw free.

Victor
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
what are you guys using for tilt angles? Am shooting w 55 and 90 mostly.
As a very general starting point, assuming that you are shooting at a typical tripod height of say 5ft and the plane of focus extends along a flat ground plane, I'd use about focal length/30 as my starting tilt at F/8 or f/11 and somewhere between infinity or closer focus to move the wedge of focus down (infinity) or upwards (focus closer).

So for 55 & 90, you might start at 1.5 - 2 degrees for 55 or up to 3 for the 90. After that I would eyeball it in using live view or shoot/review at 100%.

Like Victor, I prefer the tilt function of my Actus DB+ to the Alpa due to the way that tilt worked. I use 32 & 70HR plus a 135 Rodie and have no issues with tilt slip even with the huge 32HR. I use tilt & rise/fall practically on every image with the 32 & 70HR.

Btw, I also use an excellent iPhone app - Snapi TiltCalculator - for when I need to dial in a different starting point such as when the camera is low to the ground or I'm shooting from a high vantage point. Again, I just use the calc as a sanity check but ultimately dial it in using live view for the critical fore/aft focus points and the plane of focus. Torger here also has an EXCELLENT app btw, Lumariver DOF which I like also but aren't quite as used to using yet as TiltCalculator.

(the app helps with calculating starting tilt angle for situations where you want to emulate rear tilt by tilting the entire camera/sensor such as for accentuating foreground objects, i.e. Looming)
 

0beone

Active member
Frank,
Attached you will notice the amazing DOF as a result of one degree of tilt on a 32mm Rodenstork at f8
Stanley
A most impressive result - Thank you for sharing.

- - - Updated - - -

Thank you everyone for your responses. Pretty much what I thought would be the case though nice to get your valued opinions.

Cheers and thanks
Frank
 

torger

Active member
How often you use tilt will depend on what subjects you shoot, and a bit on your shooting style too.

Open scenery is generally suitable for tilt, especially if you use lens fall/back rise or a low tripod (so you see ground really close to the camera).

In tight scenery say inside a forest you're less likely to use tilt as you can't really solve anything with it as you then often have close objects stretching from the bottom to the top in the frame.

I do much of the later and therefore don't use tilt that much. However I have a view camera and thus tilt/swing on all my lenses and I like to have that when I need it, because sometimes I do. I've used tilt with my 35mm, then always with either a low tripod or back rise (so close ground is visibile, otherwise I don't need it), and all the way up to 180mm. The focal length I use tilt for most often is the 47mm, I have a 49x37mm sensor so with the IQ260 that would be closest to 50mm, around a 35mm 135 equivalent field of view.

Concerning setting the tilt amount I use tables or nowadays a depth of field calculator app, Lumariver Depth of Field (as I made that myself ;) ). Due to the short focal length the tilt amounts are often small, you can get values like 1.4 degrees, so it's nice to have a camera that have degree markings on the tilt.
 

0beone

Active member
How often you use tilt will depend on what subjects you shoot, and a bit on your shooting style too.

Open scenery is generally suitable for tilt, especially if you use lens fall/back rise or a low tripod (so you see ground really close to the camera).

In tight scenery say inside a forest you're less likely to use tilt as you can't really solve anything with it as you then often have close objects stretching from the bottom to the top in the frame.

I do much of the later and therefore don't use tilt that much. However I have a view camera and thus tilt/swing on all my lenses and I like to have that when I need it, because sometimes I do. I've used tilt with my 35mm, then always with either a low tripod or back rise (so close ground is visibile, otherwise I don't need it), and all the way up to 180mm. The focal length I use tilt for most often is the 47mm, I have a 49x37mm sensor so with the IQ260 that would be closest to 50mm, around a 35mm 135 equivalent field of view.

Concerning setting the tilt amount I use tables or nowadays a depth of field calculator app, Lumariver Depth of Field (as I made that myself ;) ). Due to the short focal length the tilt amounts are often small, you can get values like 1.4 degrees, so it's nice to have a camera that have degree markings on the tilt.
Thanks for that Torger. I have purchased your app and are getting my way around it. Thus far I can say it looks pretty darned excellent... From what I can understand and from responses here on this forum I believe I would be using tilt more often than not which probably confirms my reason to go for the 70 and 40 HR-W with T/S mounts. Also as Jack suggests possibly a 135 or thereabouts for longer lengths.
I thank you all for your valued contributions.

Cheers
Frank
 

0beone

Active member
Both of those lenses were my main goto's when I shot tech -- in fact, the main 3 I used were those plus the SK 120. I used tilts with all of them all the time for landscape. Used swing and rise mostly with the 40 for architecture. If you can only get one, I'd go for the 40 first, but you will own the 70 before long anyway :D
Oh, the 70 is on its way.... Thanks Jack - I'm having to dig a little deeper into the money pit every day!

- - - Updated - - -

Hi,

I don't use tilts on MFD but I have a thread at the Sony subforum with quite a few examples of using tilts and shifts, with the focus on tilts. It may be useful. I mostly use peaking to find the right amount of tilt.

http://www.getdpi.com/forum/sony/58710-some-examples-tilt-shift-sony-a7rii-hcam-master-tsii.html

Best regards
Erik
Hey, thanks Erik,
I will check it all out..
Cheers
Frank
 

0beone

Active member
Frank,

I have both the HR40 and HR70 both with t/s panels on Cambo WRS. Tilt is used frequently, often just 1 degree. The HR40 is on my Cambo the most. Given a choice that is my favorite lens. The HR70 behaves very similarly to the HR40, making it also extremely easy to use.

Worried about spending a whole lot of money? Too late.... Have you tried the HR32 Paul and Stan are talking about, or how about the new 90? :grin:

ken
Ken,
There is a limit (wife imposed) on what one can do here... The 90 would be a wonderful thing but unless I could pull a rabbit out of the hat somewhere I doubt I can go that far...
Will have to settle for the 40 and 70 at this point.. but then again.... you know where I want to go!

Cheers
Frank
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
Don't worry, if you let Ken influence you to go Rodie 32/90, you'll still want something in between like the SK60 if you can still get one. Dante is alive and well here ... :thumbup::ROTFL:

(Btw I still cast a pox on the scumbags who stole my Alpa 32/90 combo!)
 

Wayne Fox

Workshop Member
Frank,

I have both the HR40 and HR70 both with t/s panels on Cambo WRS. Tilt is used frequently, often just 1 degree. The HR40 is on my Cambo the most. Given a choice that is my favorite lens. The HR70 behaves very similarly to the HR40, making it also extremely easy to use.


ken
pretty much my feelings with the same lenses on a rm3di.
 
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