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Thread: Sony Medium Format

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    Sony Medium Format


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    Re: Sony Medium Format

    An MF camera from them could be a huge hit if they stick to the strengths of the a7-series, an open platform, a high quality sensor in a small, affordable frame. The a7 proved that a good lens line is optional for succes if people can use whatever lenses they want.
    It's still a very vague rumor though, 'There might be an MF camera coming.'

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    Re: Sony Medium Format

    I am happy to see any and all new entries into the MFD market.

    However, I think a Fuji MF mirrorless camera is a more credible near term offering and AFIK, the Fuji X-series cameras are just as capable of using non-Fuji lenses as the Sony A7 series cameras. Fuji X-series are less popular for using with legacy glass because of the APS-C size sensor vs the FF 35 sensor on the Sony A7 series. That would not be a problem for a Fuji MFD camera.

    Fuji has the added benefit of already having made MF lenses for Hasselblad, not to mention it's own line of MF (and LF) film cameras.

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    Re: Sony Medium Format

    Quote Originally Posted by Iskander View Post
    Interesting. Looks like a photoshop job of a PhaseOne IQ back.
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    Senior Member DougDolde's Avatar
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    Re: Sony Medium Format

    Somebody's idea of a joke pasting Sony on a Phase One

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    Re: Sony Medium Format

    Sony wouldn't even consider using this old sensor now. If, which they won't, came out with a medium format camera it would be a current generation chip...

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    Re: Sony Medium Format

    Sonyalpharumors refers to a low ranked rumor but I would welcome the development, including from other manufacturer such as Fuji and the likes.

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    Re: Sony Medium Format

    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher View Post
    Sony wouldn't even consider using this old sensor now. If, which they won't, came out with a medium format camera it would be a current generation chip...
    Sony is so far ahead of the curve that one could hardly call the 50mp sensor "old" tech, even though it's around two years old now. Nothing comes close in terms of low noise and high dynamic range, so if they do make something even better (improved revision ala D810), it would simply stay class-leading even amongst the top sensors.

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    Re: Sony Medium Format

    Ok, old might be wrong word, but not current either. It is over 2 years since phase released it and at that time song certainly had it already for internal testing.

    For Sony the difference just isn't there between 43 and 50 MP. Yes it's a bigger chip but Sony also knows that the future FF chips will have more towards 70 or so.

    I think Sonys market would be way to low for a 50MP medium format camera. Price wise they are also limited. Can't drop it to far without hurting sales in other areas.

    I honestly would wish a larger maker to get into MF, but I don't really see it happening any time soon.

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    Re: Sony Medium Format

    I'll believe this one (along with a Fuji MF) when I see it. Sony MF rumors have been swirling around at least ever since their 50mp CMOS chip hit the market over two years ago, and Sony was probably playing around with that chip internally long before then. Sony obviously has the tech to build essentially an A7Rii with the 50mp sensor (or even FF 100mp) if they wanted to, and if they've been paying attention to criticism of the X1D, there's definitely a market for a mirrorless MF camera with a focal plane shutter and IBIS (unless for some technical reason A7Rii tech can't be applied to MF). I hope my skepticism is unwarranted and we do see Sony (and Fuji) enter the MF market soon though. If Sony does enter the MF market, I'd expect it to be with a sensor other than the current 50mp 33x44 because I'm not sure there's enough of a difference between the 42mp BSI sensor on the A7Rii and the 50mp 33x44 MF sensor to warrant an entire new product line from Sony...especially given the immense popularity of the A7 series.

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    Re: Sony Medium Format

    Quote Originally Posted by tcdeveau View Post
    I'll believe this one (along with a Fuji MF) when I see it. Sony MF rumors have been swirling around at least ever since their 50mp CMOS chip hit the market over two years ago, and Sony was probably playing around with that chip internally long before then. Sony obviously has the tech to build essentially an A7Rii with the 50mp sensor (or even FF 100mp) if they wanted to, and if they've been paying attention to criticism of the X1D, there's definitely a market for a mirrorless MF camera with a focal plane shutter and IBIS (unless for some technical reason A7Rii tech can't be applied to MF). I hope my skepticism is unwarranted and we do see Sony (and Fuji) enter the MF market soon though. If Sony does enter the MF market, I'd expect it to be with a sensor other than the current 50mp 33x44 because I'm not sure there's enough of a difference between the 42mp BSI sensor on the A7Rii and the 50mp 33x44 MF sensor to warrant an entire new product line from Sony...especially given the immense popularity of the A7 series.


    The mass of the IBIS for a MF chip will be too much for the small gears to handle imo.

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    Re: Sony Medium Format

    Quote Originally Posted by Boinger View Post
    The mass of the IBIS for a MF chip will be too much for the small gears to handle imo.
    But the larger mass could be handled by larger gears?

    Unless there's a technical hurdle or other limiting factor of their MF sensor[s] (other than physical size) that would prevent things like FPS and IBIS to be implented on a mirrorless MF camera, it seems to me they could "just" scale up the size of mechanical components as necessary to accomodate a physically larger sensor (bigger gears, bigger body, larger diameter lens mount, etc etc etc) and essentially make a bigger A7Rii with a 33x44mm (or even 40x54) sensor. I wasn't saying use the A7Rii components, just take the relevant technology from the A7Rii and apply it towards their one of their MF sensors (which would require physically larger components). It seems to me something they could easily do if they wanted to but maybe it's not that simple.

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    Re: Sony Medium Format

    There are no gears in IBIS systems.

    Sony uses a piezo-electric system: the sensor "crawls" on a bed of friction cells, a system originally developed by Minolta. Pentax uses coils on the side of the sensor. I am not sure what Olympus uses, but certainly not "gears". I think Olympus also uses a piezo-electric system.

    The problem when scaling up these system is mainly power consumption. The necessary forces scale with the mass of the sensor system (sensor + bed), which roughly scales with the surface area. More power means both more battery drain and more heat.

    The systems to move a sensor around are available actually: they are used in multishot systems. But power is less of a problem in a multishot system, they are only moved 4 or 16 times and do not need to follow random movements.

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    Re: Sony Medium Format

    Quote Originally Posted by jerome_m View Post
    There are no gears in IBIS systems.

    Sony uses a piezo-electric system: the sensor "crawls" on a bed of friction cells, a system originally developed by Minolta. Pentax uses coils on the side of the sensor. I am not sure what Olympus uses, but certainly not "gears". I think Olympus also uses a piezo-electric system.

    The problem when scaling up these system is mainly power consumption. The necessary forces scale with the mass of the sensor system (sensor + bed), which roughly scales with the surface area. More power means both more battery drain and more heat.

    The systems to move a sensor around are available actually: they are used in multishot systems. But power is less of a problem in a multishot system, they are only moved 4 or 16 times and do not need to follow random movements.
    Interesting. I always assumed it would involve some kind of gyro with various mechanisms moving the sensor. I wonder how the piezo electric system does 5 axis movement.

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    Re: Sony Medium Format

    Quote Originally Posted by Boinger View Post
    Interesting. I always assumed it would involve some kind of gyro with various mechanisms moving the sensor. I wonder how the piezo electric system does 5 axis movement.
    They need some gyros/accelerometers as sensors, this is what they use:

    Code:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vibrating_structure_gyroscope#MEMS_gyroscopes
    or here (that is the one in the iPhone):

    Code:
    http://www.memsjournal.com/2011/01/motion-sensing-in-the-iphone-4-mems-gyroscope.html

    As to the "5 axis", this is marketing talk. All what is done is shift the sensor in X and Y and, with recent systems, rotate it a bit as well. Here an article explaining what Sony did for the A900, it details the actuators. It also shows the difference in size between the APS-C and full-frame systems:

    Code:
    http://www.sonyinsider.com/2009/12/17/the-technology-behind-sony-alpha-dslrs-steadyshot-inside/
    (what is tagged as "code" are links, direct linking does not work on this forum)

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