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Thread: 300mm and IQ3 100 EFC

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    Workshop Member Wayne Fox's Avatar
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    300mm and IQ3 100 EFC

    So I gave up on the 300mm some time back with my Phase system because it just couldn’t deliver a sharp image with the shutter bounce. The 240 is a beautiful lens, but too heavy and too expensive for the few times I actually shoot a telephoto. So I’m wondering if the 300 performs any better with the new back because of the electronic first curtain. I know if I use mirror lock up the XF is pretty quiet.

    Anyone try it?
    wayne
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    Re: 300mm and IQ3 100 EFC

    I had similar thoughts, hoping to use the 300 F4.5 on the XF.

    Purchased a used one from my dealer, and used it on the XF, in all shutter modes.

    I found that the vibration mode on the XF produced the best image, but was not 100% consistent, in that several frames still showed what I assumed was shutter shock. I used the lens with tripod collar on tripod and then without, as the lens on tripod collar seemed to produce more shutter shock problems.

    After more detailed review, I returned it for a used 240 LS (thanks again to CI), as I just found the overall image quality better.

    I agree, the 240 is a lot heavier but when reviewing images between the 300 and 240, I found I preferred the "look" from the 240 better also. Hard to put into words, but I guess, mainly micro contrast and finer detail resolving just seem better on the 240LS.

    So far, with about 200 files from the 240, the shutter shock issue doesn't seem as bad. I was focusing the 300 F4.5 with Live view and was very confident that my focus was OK.

    Paul C

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    Re: 300mm and IQ3 100 EFC

    I'm guessing that, using the lens collar mount, vibrations aren't very well dampened with the large mass of the camera body + back hanging off the end of the lens. I recently picked up a 350mm lens for my Hassy V system/P1 MFDB setup. The lens is so front-heavy that it sags in the mount, ditto the body + MFDB when holding the whole contraption by the lens. My admittedly Rube Goldberg-ish solution was to use a long lens support rig from RRS (pictured). With two points of attachment, the mount is rock solid and I get sharp images when pre-releasing the aux shutter (i.e., mirror up) and then firing the leaf shutter. This clearly isn't equivalent to the 300/XF and I don't know whether this would be sufficient to dampen the FPS on the XF. But I thought I'd put this out there as a possible work-around. Hope this helps.

    John

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    Re: 300mm and IQ3 100 EFC

    Thumbs-up for the RRS lens support system. I use it on both the Pentax 645Z and Hassy 500C. B & H has an alternative system from Asia at lower cost.

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    Re: 300mm and IQ3 100 EFC

    Another vote for the RRS support. I use this whenever I have the 2x on the 240 and have had great success with it.
    Don Libby
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    Workshop Member Wayne Fox's Avatar
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    Re: 300mm and IQ3 100 EFC

    Yeah, the RRS support is nice. Pain to haul around with a kit that’s already pushing the limit on size and weight. Unfortunately nothing worked for the 300 4.5, and it sounds like the electronic first curtain doesn’t resolve that (unfortunately) Thanks for the feedback Paul. I’ll stick with the 240, although on long hikes I have to drop it out of the bag. I guess if I think it will be helpful, I can drop the 40-80 and take the 45 and 55 instead.
    wayne
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    Senior Member Bill Caulfeild-Browne's Avatar
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    Re: 300mm and IQ3 100 EFC

    I too had the 300 but only got truly sharp images at very high shutter speeds. The 240 is consistently sharp at all speeds. And as Paul says, I like the rendering better too - more contrast I think.

    Generally one does get what one pays for!

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    Senior Member Ed Hurst's Avatar
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    Re: 300mm and IQ3 100 EFC

    A slightly left-field solution here, but have you considered using the Pentax 6x7 300mm f4 EDIF lens and an adaptor? It's truly a stellar lens, even by modern standards. It's quite heavy, but when used with the tripod collar, it's extremely well balanced and I experience no issue with vibration/softness having used it on various different systems (including the 645Z). Optically it's just superb. Of course I can't rule out the possibility of there being some vibration issue that is specific to the system you're using, but I doubt it with this lens.

    Strongly recommended.

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    Senior Member etrump's Avatar
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    Re: 300mm and IQ3 100 EFC

    Hi Wayne,

    I had the exact scenario as you except I did not sell my 300mm and still have both models.

    I can tell you the 300mm APO does an excellent job with the XF and IQ3100 and I now use it a lot! It was perhaps the primary reason for switching back to the XF from my Cambo. I used to carry the Sony A7RII for long lens work but now I rarely take it along.

    It does not have as close a focus as the 240LS but for typical long lens landscapes I think you would be very happy with it. If you want to DM me with your email I would be happy to send you a sample.

    If only I had kept my fisheye, I had a great one and let it go when I purchased the Cambo.

    Just read Paul's reply and was surprised. Other than wind vibration, I have had no instances of shutter ghosting. The 240LS weight and size was a deal breaker for me.

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    Re: 300mm and IQ3 100 EFC

    Hi Ed,

    I had followed your earlier posts on the 300, and XF and hoped to get the same positive results.
    When I used the tripod collar, I never had 3 consecutive frames that were not effected by shutter vibration. So I pulled off the collar, and then had better results, but my example also was just a bit soft on the left side.

    What I also saw was the lack of micro contrast on the files, something that I see when using the older film lenses on Digital. In the past, I have always felt that this was recoverable in post, but with the 300, it seemed that the lack of micro contrast also had an issue with the capture of the finer details at distance. Again, might just be my lens.

    The 240mm, is about 1/2 a pound heavier than the 300, 3.15lbs, vs 3.53, so I figured I could carry the difference. (this is with the collar installed), without take off about 6 to 7 more ounces. The 240mm is also a more packable, in that it's shorter.

    But the real elephant in the room of course is the cost difference. Which is huge. I had hoped to save a few dollars but that did not work out. So I am going to sell off a few of my older Mamiya lenses soon, to help make up the difference.

    Again, many thanks to Steve Hendrix at Capture Integration for helping out on this deal. Overall great team at CI.

    Paul C

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    Senior Member Steve Hendrix's Avatar
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    Re: 300mm and IQ3 100 EFC

    This is such a timely topic. It has forced me to finish up an article that I had been sitting on for the past month or so. Essentially the Vibration Mode combined with EFCS (which is the only way EFCS works) should provide the best results. Otherwise, Vibration Mode by itself may provide the best results, but that depends on the state it was calibrated in, and whether it actually achieves this state. And I want to say that sometimes I felt I could get close without Vibration Mode, shooting out of Live View, or with mirror up and a delay, but the results seemed less consistent (perhaps prone to some residual vibration elsewhere). Hard to say. At any rate, if you have an IQ3 100 and an XF Camera, I'm completely bullish on using Vibration Mode when shooting on a tripod whenever possible.

    https://captureintegration.com/i-shu...iq3-100xf-kit/


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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: 300mm and IQ3 100 EFC

    I can't speak to the IQ3100 yet but I would say that my experience with the 300/4.5 APO transformed with the XF body and vibration mode. I don't use the collar but have had success with the RRS scaffolding. Both lenses benefit but literally my 300mm was transformed from a bouncy lens on the DF+ even with the RRS support to a much better lens on the XF. I think that the XF being literally the weight of a boat anchor makes a huge difference.
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    Last edited by GrahamWelland; 6th September 2016 at 19:27.
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    Senior Member dchew's Avatar
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    Re: 300mm and IQ3 100 EFC

    "Scaffolding" made me laugh while sitting on a plane waiting to take off.

    Nice Graham.

    Dave
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    Re: 300mm and IQ3 100 EFC

    Also, I don't know if Y'all noticed, but Graham used the qualifying word "yet" in referring to not commenting on the 3100.

    I interpret that to mean we are successfully breaking him down with Dante's help.
    davechewphotography.com
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    Re: 300mm and IQ3 100 EFC

    Here's my try at 350mm on the 100MP, after some try outs I think the scaffolding is really necessary. Right now, when mounted to the tripod from the lens collar I couldn't even focus in low light using live view and 100% magnification, way too much vibration. So actually the hardest part was focussing the lens, even for infinity as these SLR lenses will allow focus passed infinity (maybe due to tolerances?)...

    So far I haven't tried the EFC yet, but if not windy, the standard mirror up + delayed exposure works pretty good for exposures of 1/60s or faster, of course, very long exposures are OK too, but anything between say 1sec and 1/60s is definitely a no go.

    I've attached a sample crop at 100% which was shot at 1/100s, ISO3200, besides the noise and lens performance issues, I don't think I could see any vibration blur.



    And here's the mandatory camera porn shot just to blend in

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    Senior Member Ed Hurst's Avatar
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    Re: 300mm and IQ3 100 EFC

    Focusing past infinity on large lenses is, I think, because larger lenses have to allow for more expansion in hot conditions so they're built with more 'give'. At normal temps, that means focusing past infinity. When hot, I believe they would get closer to infinity at the end of the focusing action. Smaller lenses have smaller components so less need for this allowance.

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    Re: 300mm and IQ3 100 EFC

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Hurst View Post
    Focusing past infinity on large lenses is, I think, because larger lenses have to allow for more expansion in hot conditions so they're built with more 'give'. At normal temps, that means focusing past infinity. When hot, I believe they would get closer to infinity at the end of the focusing action. Smaller lenses have smaller components so less need for this allowance.
    You might be correct, however, in my case here, I think it's more to do with the tolerances of either the lenses or the adapters, I can turn the focus ring quite far passed infinity and there's a "3rd party" adapter between the lens and camera. Also, when I made this shot it is quite warm here in Shanghai, around 30 degrees even in the evening.

    Anyway, whatever the reason, I'm glad this particular lens has mechanical focus limiters, which I've set for infinity focus based on these simple tests. Actually, come to think of it, I've never seen a lens nail infinity focus at the end of the focus ring throw except for the tech cam lenses

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    Senior Member Steve Hendrix's Avatar
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    Re: 300mm and IQ3 100 EFC

    Quote Originally Posted by beano_z View Post
    Here's my try at 350mm on the 100MP, after some try outs I think the scaffolding is really necessary. Right now, when mounted to the tripod from the lens collar I couldn't even focus in low light using live view and 100% magnification, way too much vibration. So actually the hardest part was focussing the lens, even for infinity as these SLR lenses will allow focus passed infinity (maybe due to tolerances?)...

    So far I haven't tried the EFC yet, but if not windy, the standard mirror up + delayed exposure works pretty good for exposures of 1/60s or faster, of course, very long exposures are OK too, but anything between say 1sec and 1/60s is definitely a no go.

    I've attached a sample crop at 100% which was shot at 1/100s, ISO3200, besides the noise and lens performance issues, I don't think I could see any vibration blur.

    To really cover all your bets, especially with exposures between 1 second and 1/60th, I would recommend the following capture method for the least possible effect from vibration:

    * Calibrate your camera with the built-in seismograph on a surface and in an environment that is as free from vibration as possible.
    * Shoot in vibration mode set to 8 seconds (this allow the longest time to allow the camera to settle to your calibrated vibration baseline).
    * This will also then engage EFCS, which will take the vibration caused by the opening of the focal plane shutter out of the equation.
    * Combine mirror up (or shoot out of live view) with the Vibration Mode.
    * I also would use Capture Pilot to capture remotely (just to act as an additional hedge).


    Steve Hendrix/CI
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    Senior Member etrump's Avatar
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    Re: 300mm and IQ3 100 EFC

    I should have mentioned I don't use the collar. Sorry about that. The weight of the lens on the body seems to help.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul2660 View Post
    Hi Ed,

    I had followed your earlier posts on the 300, and XF and hoped to get the same positive results.
    When I used the tripod collar, I never had 3 consecutive frames that were not effected by shutter vibration. So I pulled off the collar, and then had better results, but my example also was just a bit soft on the left side.

    What I also saw was the lack of micro contrast on the files, something that I see when using the older film lenses on Digital. In the past, I have always felt that this was recoverable in post, but with the 300, it seemed that the lack of micro contrast also had an issue with the capture of the finer details at distance. Again, might just be my lens.

    The 240mm, is about 1/2 a pound heavier than the 300, 3.15lbs, vs 3.53, so I figured I could carry the difference. (this is with the collar installed), without take off about 6 to 7 more ounces. The 240mm is also a more packable, in that it's shorter.

    But the real elephant in the room of course is the cost difference. Which is huge. I had hoped to save a few dollars but that did not work out. So I am going to sell off a few of my older Mamiya lenses soon, to help make up the difference.

    Again, many thanks to Steve Hendrix at Capture Integration for helping out on this deal. Overall great team at CI.

    Paul C

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    Senior Member etrump's Avatar
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    Re: 300mm and IQ3 100 EFC

    Sorry for being stupid but what aperture are you using? I usually use sunny 16 for moon exposures.

    Quote Originally Posted by beano_z View Post
    Here's my try at 350mm on the 100MP...

    I've attached a sample crop at 100% which was shot at 1/100s, ISO3200, besides the noise and lens performance issues, I don't think I could see any vibration blur.



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    Re: 300mm and IQ3 100 EFC

    Here's an assembly I've used with a 600mm. It is very effective and I have added a Manfrotto long lens support at times to prevent any side-to-side movement. No lens foot on the lens in question, so this 3-point attachment is not possible, might be useful for other applications.

    _IGP1179 by tsjanik47, on Flickr

    A cropped example using a 1.4x with the 600mm at 1/200s:

    _IGP1004 by tsjanik47, on Flickr
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    Member beano_z's Avatar
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    Re: 300mm and IQ3 100 EFC

    Quote Originally Posted by etrump View Post
    Sorry for being stupid but what aperture are you using? I usually use sunny 16 for moon exposures.
    It was wide open @ F/5.6, sunny 16 rule doesn't ad up here....

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    Re: 300mm and IQ3 100 EFC

    I have a Hasselblad / Carl Zeiss lens (Sonnar CF 250mm f/5.6 Superachromat) that has many similarities with the 350 Superachromat lens that beano_z used.

    As far as focusing is concerned, the provision of a facility to focus beyond the labelled infinite point (i.e., the physical stop is beyond the nominal infinity focus point) is to accommodate dimensional changes caused by temperature changes.

    The Zeiss website, no less, provides the following for the Hasselblad version of the Tele-Superachromat T* 5,6/350 CFE lens : "The focusing ring can move beyond infinity to allow use of this lens in a variety of temperature conditions."

    http://www.zeiss.com/camera-lenses/e...t56350cfe.html



    :-) ... MomentsForZen (Richard)

    P.S., Please keep the photographs coming - reading this thread is now a visually magnificent experience. I enjoy the photographs taken using these long lenses and the camera admiration shots.
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    Workshop Member Wayne Fox's Avatar
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    Re: 300mm and IQ3 100 EFC

    Quote Originally Posted by beano_z View Post
    It was wide open @ F/5.6, sunny 16 rule doesn't ad up here....
    A little confused. the moon is directly lit by the sun, and sunny 16 rule will accurately provide the correct exposure. I have shot the moon dozens of times as a second exposure to fix the blurry moon in a landscape. At f5.6, 1/100second and ISO 3200 all I would get is a blown out moon.
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    Re: 300mm and IQ3 100 EFC

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Fox View Post
    A little confused. the moon is directly lit by the sun, and sunny 16 rule will accurately provide the correct exposure. I have shot the moon dozens of times as a second exposure to fix the blurry moon in a landscape. At f5.6, 1/100second and ISO 3200 all I would get is a blown out moon.
    I agree with you. For the full Moon, I would use the same settings as per a sunny day. The fact that the full Moon blends in well unto a clear sky indicates that it has the same (or similar) luminance to the clear sky on a sunny day.

    :-) ... MomentsForZen (Richard)

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