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Thread: The Fuji GFX

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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Fuji looks blue collar unit
    Hassy looks more white collar

    To me the Fuji may appeal more to a working Pro type cam.

    I like them both actually so don't get hell bent over it. For me I'm considering the Fuji more at the moment

    You hit it on the head and really the only thing I'm uncertain about with regards to the Fuji is the willingness of companies to provide off camera strobe support high speed flash syncing as 1/125 sync speed won't cut it for most people. The initial lens choice seems spot on in choice although I would prefer that the 110/2 was released before the Macro lens but that's just me. I could probably live with the 23/4, 32-64/4, 63/2.8 (although I wish this were a f/2 lens as well), the 110/2 and would hop they released a 150mm, 180mm, or a 150-300mm zoom for a long telephoto option.

    Like you I'm leaning in preference towards the Fuji over the Hasselblad as we haven't seen much movement on the X1D from initial announcement. I believe the final product will be great but it seems like Hasselblad didn't quite strike while the iron was the hottest.

    Overall the Fuji and Hasselblad both look like a well thought out systems and one that I could see myself buying into for wide to portrait range duties. While keeping a smaller format system (APS-C or FF) for personal family shots or travel.
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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    iii
    I'm with you all the way. I like blue collar and as such I will try one even before I try the a7r2. If too much for me I can always sell it to Vivek. Oops, he might be listening.
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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    iii
    I'm with you all the way. I like blue collar and as such I will try one even before I try the a7r2. If too much for me I can always sell it to Vivek. Oops, he might be listening.
    Well I already have the A7RII and it's plenty of camera already so no complaints there. I just wouldn't mind a larger sensor at times primarily for portraits to be specific. I guess it comes down to trying both finished products and as of today there aren't any local Hasselblad dealers for me so that might make me take a deeper lean towards Fuji.
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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    The Fuji for a odd reason it's not even built yet per say just sounds more functional and adaptable. I also think they are planning on more lens options and adapters in the MF market. Just a feeling I have . . Hassy sounds a little more collector item and worse maybe not in a big hurry to advance it faster. . Just a impression I have. I have no worries with lens IQ either way. Both systems will be very good.
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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    Hassy cut my dealer off from selling ut. With that they took out the dealer confidence out of buying. Honestly that kind of pissed me off. Now it's a software worry if who is Fuji best options. . I'm not a fan of Adobe here.
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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    One thing about Fuji, based on owning at least one of their mirrorless X cameras since 2012, is you can count on your camera being better a couple of years after the day you bought it then when brand new. They will upgrade the firmware and make real improvements to the camera. With my XE2 they made available for free a totally new focusing system. I would expect they would continue to make improvements and pass them along in the GFX via firmware updates when possible. Fuji has cultivated some serious loyalty because of that.

    Seems a nice enough MFD, but if between now and when it's produced they go with an X-Trans sensor (or add it in the GFX2) it would have the potential of producing files you would only expect from bodies with 2x the MP.

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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    I don't know if this link has been posted but there's some interesting information contained in it.

    https://fuji-x-secrets.net/2016/09/2...ifilm-gfx-50s/
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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    The Fuji looks very capable, but the emphasis is on "looks", because none of the cameras with lenses have been released into the wild, even as demos. We are probably at least 6 months away from actual release. Right now, it's essentially a concept camera, so it's being imbued with magical qualities. I have seen this story play out many times. Nothing EVER matches the hype.
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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    Quote Originally Posted by hcubell View Post
    The Fuji looks very capable, but the emphasis is on "looks", because none of the cameras with lenses have been released into the wild, even as demos. We are probably at least 6 months away from actual release. Right now, it's essentially a concept camera, so it's being imbued with magical qualities. I have seen this story play out many times. Nothing EVER matches the hype.
    So true ...

    Just walked from all the hype and ordered a M Monochrom and a 50 .... my third historically ... maybe I will learn to love the one I am with ...

    The pictures from the X1D are very resolved but a bit lacking in character. And no one has seen much from the Fuji. I love their spirit and lenses ... think it will be a great system ... see you all next year.

    Bob
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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    Agree it's a lot of vapor right now. Its fun though and here is the good news , collect interest on your money for 6 months. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    Interest? What's that?
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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    Name:  1356025.jpg
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    Mic drop.

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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    Please forgive me of my ignorance.
    What does an electronic shutter bring to the table?
    Is this helpful for flash sync?

    Thank you for your patience.

    Rick

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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    i do not see any reason to call this camera vapoware or even a concept......the camera is neither just a 3d rendering, nor has it been just inside a glass cabinet at photokina....people can touch it...try out... and even some japanese photographers tried it out.

    what they claim the camera can do and what it actually delivers, when it finally gets released, might be 2 different things....but for sure its no concept

    what an electronic shutter is good for? somebody wants vibrationless actuation maybe?
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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    Quote Originally Posted by drevil View Post
    i do not see any reason to call this camera vapoware or even a concept......the camera is neither just a 3d rendering, nor has it been just inside a glass cabinet at photokina....people can touch it...try out... and even some japanese photographers tried it out.

    what they claim the camera can do and what it actually delivers, when it finally gets released, might be 2 different things....but for sure its no concept

    what an electronic shutter is good for? somebody wants vibrationless actuation maybe?
    and use on a tech camera.

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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    Didn't Hasselblad state that they could implement electronic shutter but that with this sensor the bit depth would drop to 10bit or something?

    Seems a bit of a pain using one of these on a tech cam to me though, but then again I'm lucky to have a dedicated back for that purpose.

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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    Quote Originally Posted by tjv View Post

    Seems a bit of a pain using one of these on a tech cam to me though, but then again I'm lucky to have a dedicated back for that purpose.
    Why? With two focus aids (EVF and LCD) both adjustable in their orientations combined with live view, it will make life easier to focus and compose.



    Quote Originally Posted by Boinger View Post
    and use on a tech camera.
    Why?

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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    Quote Originally Posted by rickgrainger View Post
    Please forgive me of my ignorance.
    What does an electronic shutter bring to the table?
    Is this helpful for flash sync?

    Thank you for your patience.

    Rick
    From my experience with mirrorless cams in smaller formats, it is useful for discreet street shooting. No sound whatsoever.

    There is no other advantage at all. The DR range drops (14 to 12, for example), there is banding under fluorescent lights and there is physical distortion of images of fast moving objects while total electronic (silent shutter) is employed.

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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    Quote Originally Posted by hcubell View Post
    The Fuji looks very capable, but the emphasis is on "looks", because none of the cameras with lenses have been released into the wild, even as demos. We are probably at least 6 months away from actual release. Right now, it's essentially a concept camera, so it's being imbued with magical qualities. I have seen this story play out many times. Nothing EVER matches the hype.
    don´t understand what you want to suggest the moveable viewfinder and lcd will probably not disappear on the final version, same as the joystick and some other features which makes the fuji very very interesting for working photographers. and as far as i have learned in the last days fuji has announced nothing what they are not already delivering with their very successful aps -c cameras. but i think your comment fits perfect for the x1d, the rushed announcment a bluff, just to get ahead of fuji.....

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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    Why a pain? Because of the smaller MF sensor plus lens / body bayonet restricting movments, particularly for flat stitching with wide-angle lenses. If that doesn't bother you, then I can only assume it'll perform as well as other DMF backs with the same sensor (assuming the microlenses aren't stronger.) The Canon lenses will hold up really well, I imagine, although not allow a ton of movement by some peoples standards. The bulk of the grip might also obstruct movement using wideish tech lenses on some cameras?

    The EVF and focusing aids of course will be great to help for fast setup etc. Looks like a great camera, but personally I'm not interested in cobbling together adaptors and third party lenses etc on such a camera (but can see why others would find it attractive.) For 95% of people, I think this and the X1D will live or die on the native lens line up and general feature set / performance. Both companies seem to have a lot to prove. I'm interested to see how they both play out in the real world, although we might be waiting six months or so to see the Fuji.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Why? With two focus aids (EVF and LCD) both adjustable in their orientations combined with live view, it will make life easier to focus and compose.

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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    Quote Originally Posted by tjv View Post
    I think this and the X1D will live or die on the native lens line up...
    when you look at what made the sony a7r a success i´m not sure , i rather belief the camera which is able to adapt more non native lenses will be the winner in this game. i have zero problems shooting people work with manual focus on a7r2 which is btw faster than my h3d with focus and recompose and far more reliable ! both offers have limited lens lines. hasselblad has nothing announced what i would use, fuji is a little better but this situation will not change for a long time. from what i have learned talking with colleagues is that we want more versatile camera systems and both could fulfill our needs but right now the fuji has a clear advantage.
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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    It sure is going to shake up the MF segment like no other before.

    The XD1 will live and die by its restricted lenses. That does not apply to the very versatile Fuji GFX.
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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    It sure is going to shake up the MF segment like no other before.

    The XD1 will live and die by its restricted lenses. That does not apply to the very versatile Fuji GFX.
    yeah and i really wonder what ixxxts are in charge at hasselblad who have a hc lens adapter designed without a tripode mount ? looks like they wanted to even block the use of their own hts !

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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    Perhaps they will make one (tripod collar) available at additional cost at a later date.

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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    From my experience with mirrorless cams in smaller formats, it is useful for discreet street shooting. No sound whatsoever.

    There is no other advantage at all. The DR range drops (14 to 12, for example), there is banding under fluorescent lights and there is physical distortion of images of fast moving objects while total electronic (silent shutter) is employed.
    If they could fix this problems, it would be revolutionary; you could have a camera back, a mount and a lens (any lens).
    Any manual focus lens

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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    Just happened to get an Email from Adorama with new stuff from Photokina and the X1D limited edition is retailing for $13,000.00 - without a lens!! I'm not afraid to spend a buck or two but that kind of got my attention......

    Victor

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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    No

    The limited edition 4116 comes with the 45 and one more year of warranty for a total of three years ... so you pay about $1600 for black and the extra year. Not as
    bad as it sounds ... considering this is a new camera. May be worth it for the warranty.


    Bob

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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    Quote Originally Posted by vjbelle View Post
    Just happened to get an Email from Adorama with new stuff from Photokina and the X1D limited edition is retailing for $13,000.00 - without a lens!! I'm not afraid to spend a buck or two but that kind of got my attention......

    Victor
    "With XCD 45mm f/3.5 Lens"



    Now back to our regular program in progress.

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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    Will be selling for $13k when they get a working firmware and fix the overheating issue at some point in the future. (FIFY). I have a little more faith in the Fujifilm R&D department personally. The little 'Blad is very handsome but I haven't heard anyone report that they've tried one that is close to being complete.

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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    Quote Originally Posted by Speedgraphic View Post
    The little 'Blad is very handsome but I haven't heard anyone report that they've tried one that is close to being complete.
    The X1D has been out for demos and test for two months. The Fuji is still locked behind glass at Photokina. I don't think that the Fuji qualifies as "close to being complete" either.

    Edit: apparently, some people could get the Fuji out of its cabinet. I did not see that when visiting Photokina.
    Last edited by jerome_m; 23rd September 2016 at 23:42.

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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    Quote Originally Posted by Speedgraphic View Post
    Will be selling for $13k when they get a working firmware and fix the overheating issue at some point in the future. (FIFY). I have a little more faith in the Fujifilm R&D department personally. The little 'Blad is very handsome but I haven't heard anyone report that they've tried one that is close to being complete.
    Yes yes we get it ... your a Fuji guy.

    As an aside I dropped my order for both and am moving back to the M Monochrom 246 .... clearly do not see for myself that 23 x 16 is that more compelling than 11 x 17 native at 360.

    Most of the preview pictures to this point look pretty bland ... lots of resolution ... zero mojo.

    If you need big big files and neutral imaging go for it ... but do not expect it to change your photographic life.

    Bob
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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    Bob I have been a little skeptical on the Hassy glass as to being a little sterile and we are not sure of Fuji either. My buy finger has been off both of them because I just have this feeling they will go for the juggler on sharpness and not character. Right now I'm guessing at this but I don't guess wrong too often. I'm hoping I'm clearly wrong though. It's just too damn early to see what both of them have and tested by real craftsman and not pitch men. They really need me to do it. Arm up. Lol
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    Guy

    My thoughts to a T. I have downloaded every TIF and JPG I could find and cannot make them compelling enough in post to generate
    any desire to move to those cameras.

    They should get you involved ...

    I would rather have an option to put a P67 105 F 2.4 with all its delicious aberrations on the camera than have a neutral piece of glass there.

    Thanks

    Bob
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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    Quote Originally Posted by jerome_m View Post
    The Fuji is still locked behind glass at Photokina. I don't think that the Fuji qualifies as "close to being complete" either.
    Total misinformation as many videos show the "press" handling it and shooting with the GFX. Some even held their mics up to it so one could hear the shutter sound.

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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    Quote Originally Posted by docmoore View Post
    Guy

    My thoughts to a T. I have downloaded every TIF and JPG I could find and cannot make them compelling enough in post to generate
    any desire to move to those cameras.

    They should get you involved ...

    I would rather have an option to put a P67 105 F 2.4 with all its delicious aberrations on the camera than have a neutral piece of glass there.

    Thanks

    Bob
    This is why if I'm leaning anywhere it's Fuji because of the shutter and the adapter solution a lot like our Sonys you just get more lens choices to work with and Fuji sounds like it's taking the Sony business model of letting everyone adapt whatever they want on it. That's smart in my book. They are paying attention. I have 3 Zeiss ZM M mounts myself for my Sony. So if they are watching than they are picking up on this 3rd party stuff.

    Hassy still has that closed system mentality it seems. Sure they will let H in but what else. Nothing announced. I like that Hassy too but I want wide open gates to enter
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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    Total misinformation as many videos show the "press" handling it and shooting with the GFX. Some even held their mics up to it so one could hear the shutter sound.
    So some people could get the Fuji out of its cabinet. I did not see that when visiting Photokina. That still does not make the Fuji any more available than the X1D...

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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    Hi Guy,

    The Hasselblad lenses are designed by Per Nordlund, same guy who did much of the design for the HC lenses, so I would assume that he lenses have similar characteristics.

    It would be reasonable that the X1D lenses are designed for higher resolution than the HC-lenses as the sensor is smaller.

    I don't think there is a contradiction between "drawing" and sharpness, the Zeiss Otus line is known for good rendition and near ultimate sharpness. One of the attraction of the Otus is that axial chroma, the aberration causing magenta/green fringinging in out of focus areas is held at bay.

    Axial chroma is an issue with almost all large aperture lenses.

    Best regards
    Erik


    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Bob I have been a little skeptical on the Hassy glass as to being a little sterile and we are not sure of Fuji either. My buy finger has been off both of them because I just have this feeling they will go for the juggler on sharpness and not character. Right now I'm guessing at this but I don't guess wrong too often. I'm hoping I'm clearly wrong though. It's just too damn early to see what both of them have and tested by real craftsman and not pitch men. They really need me to do it. Arm up. Lol

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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    As I get older I find myself preferring 'character' of a lens with it's inherent imperfections vs clinical sharpenss.

    If the Hassy lenses can impart some of the characteristics of the best Zeiss with micro-contrast and acuity but without looking bland and clinical then they'll do well, actually better than as well as they'll doubtless do anyway.
    Ylem ...

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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    Quote Originally Posted by jerome_m View Post
    So some people could get the Fuji out of its cabinet. I did not see that when visiting Photokina. That still does not make the Fuji any more available than the X1D...
    The Fuji guys were slammed the entire show, showing press and others the GFX and the first 3 lenses in the private rooms. I got the chance to about 20 minutes playing with the camera and lenses and talking to them. Yes it's still many months from being available but it's real and not the complete vaporware that some are making it out to be.
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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    I know this is very much projecting into the future but was just wondering if there is an issue with third party companies like Metabones being able to produce an autofocus adapter for the Fuji GFX camera? As far as I know, there is no electronic autofocus adapter for the Fuji apsc series of cameras, as there is for Sony and m43?

    Is it simply due to lack of demand or is it something more complex than that?

    Am very excited by the Fuji as it contains a shutter and (potentially) allows the use of a whole bunch of lenses. Am not really concerned about autofocus but would love to see an adapter that enabled the use of Canon TS-E lenses.. Throw in a shift adapter for these lenses (even if the lenses need to be used in aperture stopdown mode) and for use with other medium format lenses and we really have a versatile camera...

    Oh, a couple of leaf shutter lenses or the option to use existing ones and then it is very versatile...

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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    Quote Originally Posted by ErikKaffehr View Post
    The Hasselblad lenses are designed by Per Nordlund, same guy who did much of the design for the HC lenses, so I would assume that he lenses have similar characteristics.
    From a quick test with a X1D, the new lenses do not appear to have the same rendering as the HC series.

  43. #193
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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    Quote Originally Posted by thedigitalbean View Post
    The Fuji guys were slammed the entire show, showing press and others the GFX and the first 3 lenses in the private rooms. I got the chance to about 20 minutes playing with the camera and lenses and talking to them. Yes it's still many months from being available but it's real and not the complete vaporware that some are making it out to be.
    It is quite clear that the camera is real and not vaporware. OTOH, it is also clear that the X1D will come to market before the Fuji. Dozens of pre-production X1D cameras have been made shown at dealer shows on multiple continents and, at photokina, anyone who wished so could try one.

    But availability is probably not such a big deal for this kind of camera, which is probably rarely bought on an impulse. As to me, I am in no rush to buy, I can wait till next year and see how the lens line develops. In the mean time, I can still use my H4D, which still works very well...

  44. #194
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    If I said vaporware I meant it in the context of not on the street yet for public use. Sorry if that was misunderstood.
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  45. #195
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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    Quote Originally Posted by mandonbossi View Post
    I know this is very much projecting into the future but was just wondering if there is an issue with third party companies like Metabones being able to produce an autofocus adapter for the Fuji GFX camera? As far as I know, there is no electronic autofocus adapter for the Fuji apsc series of cameras, as there is for Sony and m43?

    Is it simply due to lack of demand or is it something more complex than that?

    Am very excited by the Fuji as it contains a shutter and (potentially) allows the use of a whole bunch of lenses. Am not really concerned about autofocus but would love to see an adapter that enabled the use of Canon TS-E lenses.. Throw in a shift adapter for these lenses (even if the lenses need to be used in aperture stopdown mode) and for use with other medium format lenses and we really have a versatile camera...

    Oh, a couple of leaf shutter lenses or the option to use existing ones and then it is very versatile...
    Well, the adapter would need to be able to do the following:
    1. Report as an AF lens for the camera - easy enough, chipped lenses/adapters do this all the time.
    2. Intercept and decode the AF/aperture/shutter signal - requires reverse engineering as most of this data is proprietary, but third-party lenses from the likes of Sigma and Tamron already do this.
    3. Encode and re-send said data to adapted lens in question - same as point 2 but in reverse, you need the proper interface protocols for each mount adapted.
    4. If the lens in question is mechanically-coupled in nature, that is screw-driven or with a lever for aperture, the adapter would need it's own motors and actuators built-in.

    Seeing as many medium format lenses are designed to cover a fairly long mirror box, of around 63-71mm on average, and the GFX flange is 26.3mm, that leaves a fairly comfortable 36~44mm of dumb space between the mount and lens, which I think is plenty to implement whatever mechanical wizardry that's needed for it to work... Assuming, of course, someone takes the initiative to invest in the R&D needed to reverse engineer all the protocols and translate them, and also prototype the hardware and tolerances needed for mechanically-driven features.

    The success of this camera could be significantly boosted with adapters as people could take them as second cameras for existing systems, but that depends on how certain companies will see the GFX as an investment. Metabones is primarily concerned with video shooters, so if it ships with solid video features, that would actually be a benefit to everyone.

  46. #196
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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Colson View Post
    "With XCD 45mm f/3.5 Lens"



    Now back to our regular program in progress.

    Joe
    Thank you for the correction Joe....... next time I'll put my GLASSES on.

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  47. #197
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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    I know it is inevitable that the Internet is abuzz comparing the Haaselblad X1D with the Fuji GFX, and people are lining up claiming that the GFX is vastly superior because it has a focal plane shutter that fosters dreams of bolting every lens ever made on to it and an interchangeable viewfinder that MAY provide a better EVF experience. These differences are certainly important to many, and the GFX is a great potential alternative for them. However, the market for theses two cameras is small and there is a very distinct segment of that market for whom the form factor, the size and weight, and the user experience of operating the camera are paramount, and they will want to compare the two systems on that basis. That market segment couldn't care less about being able to adapt non-native lenses. They will be perfectly happy if Hasselblad produces a full lineup of superb lenses for the X1D.
    hcubell
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  48. #198
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    Yea before you get too far in the Fuji need to remember they are adding micro lenses on the sensor so that whole adapter option can be limited to lenses without shifting. We all know micro lenses and shifting are not friendly partners. It could be very limiting or non existent as well. Personally I like the form factor of the Hassy as it looks very nice in the hand. Again the body could change a little in the Fuji as well. Until it's in full production mode things can change.
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  49. #199
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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Personally I like the form factor of the Hassy as it looks very nice in the hand.
    I agree. Furthermore, I think the Fuji isn't creating a new market segment, unlike the Blad. You can already adapt a whole bunch of old lenses on a Pentax, Leica or Phase body, or on a tech cam. One can argue that Fuji has implemented this or that feature better, but it's one more option in an existing market. It doesn't even look much smaller than a Leica S.

    The X1D (horrible name) is arguably different. I could see myself using it as a walking-around camera. It's not a big gun like the other medium format options. Three lenses is more than enough for that type of camera, although a SWC-type lens (90 degree coverage vertical) would be welcome.

    One announcement that fell through the cracks is the Sinar/Leica back. It may be better suited to tilt/shift work than either the Fuji or the Hasselblad.

  50. #200
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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    What lenses would be interesting to be adapted on the GFX, if I may ask? Because we are not in 24x36 land with a plethora of cheap, readily available lenses with interesting focal length and character. This is medium format, most of the cheap lenses were designed in film times for much larger targets (and hence longer focal length) than what the GFX uses. And these old lenses are also much, much larger than what is reasonable to use on a smaller camera.

    Sure, there may well be some odd old lens that would be interesting to use on the GFX, but I don't think the option will be that useful in the general case.

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