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Thread: The Fuji GFX

  1. #201
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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    To step back, and compare the new mirrorless MF contenders:

    • The Hasselblad is likely to be available 3-6m sooner, but it is more expensive (25%?) will have fewer lenses available at least over the first year and/but they will (have to) have built-in shutters.
    • It is more compact than the Fuji, but the latter has a more versatile viewing system.
    • There are some indications that the Hasselblad firmware is immature. The state of the Fuji firmware is unknown, but they have a track record of providing firmware enhancements.
    • There are some signs that Fuji aims to provide a complete MF system, over time. The Hasselblad seems more tentative. If it sells, they may offer more. (Cf, Leica SL).
    • The Hasselblad seems to have licensed Nikon's flash protocols, so their speed light can be used in addition to studio lights.


    In headline summary, the Fuji seems aimed more at the photographic journeyman, a professional tool, where as the Hasselblad is aimed more at the lifestyle market.

    This is just the impression from advance marketing. It may well turn out that there are showstoppers in either case, when these cameras are used real life, but I'd be interested in the views particularly of those that have seen / used the cameras.

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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    Quote Originally Posted by jrp View Post
    In headline summary, the Fuji seems aimed more at the photographic journeyman, a professional tool, where as the Hasselblad is aimed more at the lifestyle market.
    I guess this would depend on ones definition of "journeyman", "professional tool" and "lifestyle". For me, I compare potential new cameras against my current system to see if they offer compelling advantages that justifies the cost. Often time it's 2 steps forward one step back but there has to be a compelling reason to change. The internet's general consensus of how a camera should be used, or who should use it never really enters into my decision making process.

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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    And it should not. It comes down to you to find a compelling reason you should switch. I have done this way to often myself and I really found damn good reasons when it came to needs not wants
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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    Am I the only one that knows he absolutely does not need this new Fuji but still wants it and knows he is going to buy it?
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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    1.
    will the gfx open their system to use it on viewcameras like the cambo actus? with the x1d it is not possible as i know...

    2.
    hope that we can edit fujifiles in c1

    3.
    we can use third party lens like the canon tse


    if all points okay i will preorder soon it is possible.... ����
    Last edited by gmfotografie; 24th September 2016 at 23:06.
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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    Quote Originally Posted by gmfotografie View Post
    1.
    will the gfx open their system to use it on viewcameras like the cambo actus? with the x1d it is not possible as i know...

    2.
    hope that we can edit fujifiles in c1

    3.
    we can use third party lens like the canon tse


    if all points okay i will preorder soon it is possible.... ����
    For 1. Since the Fuji has an FP shutter it should be possible. It'll likely take time for people to build the appropriate adaptors.

    For 2. I'm guessing C1 will unless they don't out of spite. It's a Bayer sensor and unless Fuji does some kind of funky compression support should be straightforward

    For 3. Unsure how easy aperture control will be, will be interesting to see if someone like metabones can do it.
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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    For 1. and 3.:

    Cambo and Arca have Canon lens boards with electronic aperture control for their bellow cameras. The main problem for those devices is the small difference between the flange distance between Canon EF (44mm) and Fuji GFX (26,7mm). It results in only 17.3mm space. That brings the lens panels quite close to the camera and its grip. I am very interested in such a solution. So to check out if it would work I took product photos and scaled them to the same size in photoshop, using sensor size and mm-scales on the images as references. I think it is quite exact. My results:

    a) the Arca F-Universalis lens board with aperture control will fit with the camera in landscape orientation. But the grip will limit the horizontal shift to one side to next to nothing (remember there is also the bellows between lens board and the grip which I didn’t draw). You could compensate that with the shift on the lens, but it’s a bit strange to do that on a view camera. Portrait orientation won’t work at all, because the lens board is about 12mm higher than wide, it collides with the grip. Arca would probably have to make a dedicated bellow with a wider opening for the larger sensor, and a new mounting ring for the Fuji.

    b) the Cambo Actus lens board for Canon with aperture control is much narrower. It will fit in landscape orientation with enough space for shift in all directions. In portrait orientation it won’t fit at all, much too high. Cambo would probably have to make a new bellow with a wider opening. Their rotating mount for the camera side would have to be replaced by a thinner on without rotation- it is too thick to fit in the 17.3mm together with the lens board.

    c) Cambo has a Canon lens board without aperture control for the Actus. This is much smaller and will work in both camera orientations with enough space for shifting in all directions. But no aperture control (set aperture on a Canon camera, detach, mount on the Actus, no easy switching between working aperture and full open).

    So it looks like there will be no easy solution. Someone will have to develop a product further or from the ground on.

    Regards -
    Marc


    Quote Originally Posted by gmfotografie View Post
    1.
    will the gfx open their system to use it on viewcameras like the cambo actus? with the x1d it is not possible as i know..

    2.
    hope that we can edit fujifiles in c1

    3.
    we can use third party lens like the canon tse


    if all points okay i will preorder soon it is possible.... ����
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  8. #208
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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    For 1. and 3.:

    Cambo and Arca have Canon lens boards with electronic aperture control for their bellow cameras. They don't require the collaboration with Fuji. The main problem for those devices is the small difference between the flange distance of Canon EF (44mm) and Fuji GFX (26,7mm). It results in only 17.3mm space. That brings the lens panels quite close to the camera and its grip. I am very interested in such a solution. So to check out if it would work I took product photos and scaled them to the same size in photoshop, using sensor size, mount diameters and mm-scales on the images as references. I think it is quite exact. My results:

    a) the Arca F-Universalis lens board with aperture control will fit with the camera in landscape orientation. But the grip will limit the horizontal shift to one side to next to nothing (remember there is also the bellows between lens board and the grip which I didn’t draw). You could compensate that with the shift on the lens, but it’s a bit strange to do that on a view camera. Arca would probably have to make a dedicated bellow with a wider opening for the larger sensor, and a new mounting ring for the Fuji. Portrait orientation won’t work at all, because the lens board is about 12mm higher than wide, it collides with the grip.

    b) the Cambo Actus lens board for Canon with aperture control is much narrower. It will fit in landscape orientation with enough space for shift in all directions. Cambo would probably have to make a new bellow with a wider opening. Their rotating mount for the camera side would have to be replaced by a thinner on without rotation - it is too thick to fit in the 17.3mm together with the lens board. In portrait orientation it won’t fit at all, much too high.

    c) Cambo has a Canon lens board without aperture control for the Actus. This is much smaller and will work in both camera orientations with enough space for shifting in all directions. But no aperture control (set aperture on a Canon camera, detach, mount on the Actus, no easy switching between working aperture and full open).

    So it looks like there will be no easy solution. Someone will have to develop a product further or from the ground on. I very much hope that someone would chime in and do that. A fixed adapter with aperture control by metabones would be a great thing. Or a shift adapter like a mini-pancake-camera with interchangeable panels for different MF-lenses.

    Regards -
    Marc


    Quote Originally Posted by thedigitalbean View Post
    1.
    will the gfx open their system to use it on viewcameras like the cambo actus? with the x1d it is not possible as i know...

    2.
    hope that we can edit fujifiles in c1

    3.
    we can use third party lens like the canon tse
    Click image for larger version. 

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  9. #209
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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    Quote Originally Posted by gmfotografie View Post
    hope that we can edit fujifiles in c1
    I thought that Phase One official take on C1 is that they will not support any other MF camera than their own (Phase One and Leaf, which Phase One owns). They are open to other brands, just no MF. For example, they do not support the Leica S.
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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    Quote Originally Posted by jerome_m View Post
    I thought that Phase One official take on C1 is that they will not support any other MF camera than their own (Phase One and Leaf, which Phase One owns). They are open to other brands, just no MF. For example, they do not support the Leica S.
    Nor Pentax. Nor Hasselblad.
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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    Quote Originally Posted by jerome_m View Post
    I thought that Phase One official take on C1 is that they will not support any other MF camera than their own (Phase One and Leaf, which Phase One owns). They are open to other brands, just no MF. For example, they do not support the Leica S.
    Perhaps they'll take the advice I (and many others) have given over the years to offer support for other cameras. There are enough people that you can get $300 from as an Adobe/Aperture alternative that will make the offering profitable but will never buy into their $30k+ systems but enjoy their software... or at just don't want to do a subscription.

    Many threads ads were locked down on Phase One forums a couple years ago and were met with a rather rude and "elitist" response but I digress. Seems like "easy money and low hanging fruit for those without the money to afford a very expensive Phase system.
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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    Quote Originally Posted by marc aurel View Post
    For 1. and 3.:

    Cambo and Arca have Canon lens boards with electronic aperture control for their bellow cameras. They don't require the collaboration with Fuji. The main problem for those devices is the small difference between the flange distance of Canon EF (44mm) and Fuji GFX (26,7mm). It results in only 17.3mm space. That brings the lens panels quite close to the camera and its grip. I am very interested in such a solution. So to check out if it would work I took product photos and scaled them to the same size in photoshop, using sensor size, mount diameters and mm-scales on the images as references. I think it is quite exact. My results:

    a) the Arca F-Universalis lens board with aperture control will fit with the camera in landscape orientation. But the grip will limit the horizontal shift to one side to next to nothing (remember there is also the bellows between lens board and the grip which I didn’t draw). You could compensate that with the shift on the lens, but it’s a bit strange to do that on a view camera. Arca would probably have to make a dedicated bellow with a wider opening for the larger sensor, and a new mounting ring for the Fuji. Portrait orientation won’t work at all, because the lens board is about 12mm higher than wide, it collides with the grip.

    b) the Cambo Actus lens board for Canon with aperture control is much narrower. It will fit in landscape orientation with enough space for shift in all directions. Cambo would probably have to make a new bellow with a wider opening. Their rotating mount for the camera side would have to be replaced by a thinner on without rotation - it is too thick to fit in the 17.3mm together with the lens board. In portrait orientation it won’t fit at all, much too high.

    c) Cambo has a Canon lens board without aperture control for the Actus. This is much smaller and will work in both camera orientations with enough space for shifting in all directions. But no aperture control (set aperture on a Canon camera, detach, mount on the Actus, no easy switching between working aperture and full open).

    So it looks like there will be no easy solution. Someone will have to develop a product further or from the ground on. I very much hope that someone would chime in and do that. A fixed adapter with aperture control by metabones would be a great thing. Or a shift adapter like a mini-pancake-camera with interchangeable panels for different MF-lenses.
    Another alternative is to modify Redrock Micro's LiveLens MFT adapter (or, more likely, use its guts in combination with an inexpensive macro auto-extension tube to provide the connection to the Canon lens contacts.) It allows Canon lenses to be used on m4/3 camera bodies and provides control over their electronic apertures.

    I had one and successfully modified it for use on non-m4/3 cameras, but the portion of the lens mount that extended forward of the lens panel was still ~7.5mm thick, which may be too much for this application, given that there's only 17.3mm of space available overall.

    Plus, it also required a remote box connected via a cable to house the battery and aperture control circuitry, so it wasn't the most practical or aesthetically pleasing solution.

    I have never examined a Cambo Actus up close, so I can't say for certain, but if the modified lens mount is mounted on a plain view-camera lens panel, then it might just work ... maybe.

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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    Perhaps they'll take the advice I (and many others) have given over the years to offer support for other cameras. There are enough people that you can get $300 from as an Adobe/Aperture alternative that will make the offering profitable but will never buy into their $30k+ systems but enjoy their software... or at just don't want to do a subscription.
    More likely Phase One will continue to use Capture One as an incentive to get their cameras. There aren't that many licences to be sold to other MF users, simply because there aren't that many MF cameras sold.

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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    Quote Originally Posted by jerome_m View Post
    More likely Phase One will continue to use Capture One as an incentive to get their cameras. There aren't that many licences to be sold to other MF users, simply because there aren't that many MF cameras sold.
    True but as MF becomes more accessible in pricing it behooves them to make it another option as MF shooters are more likely to choose C1P for its tethering options.
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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    Quote Originally Posted by gmfotografie View Post

    2.
    hope that we can edit fujifiles in c1

    Wasn't that C1 in the gfx video by pentax? Where the japanese photographer was editing his images

    *edit*
    yes it is, so C1 seems possible

    *edit2*
    its the sony 50mp cmos sensor after all, right
    Last edited by drevil; 25th September 2016 at 22:54.

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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    The X1D and GFX likely feel different in the hand but judging by this there is less of a size difference than I thought.

    Images from: The Giants' Battle: Fujifilm GFX Vs. Hasselblad X1D - Where the X1D beats the GFX and Vice Versa (Size Comparison Included) - Fuji Rumors



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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    This new Fuji seems very sweet, cant wait for IQ samples, I'll get this system or the Hasselblad, I need me another new point and shoot camera. I would be thrilled to shoot with the Fuji using the lenses wide open. Exciting times!
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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    Quote Originally Posted by jerome_m View Post
    More likely Phase One will continue to use Capture One as an incentive to get their cameras. There aren't that many licences to be sold to other MF users, simply because there aren't that many MF cameras sold.
    the business outlook for p1 has certainly not improved with the latest announcements so i think it comes down to if p1 needs to collect some extra money to please their investors. i don´t think this is a small market and it will grow faster than before with cameras like the gfx so this could be a chance and software licenses guarantee a steady stream of money which probably is also not bad in times when hardware sales become more difficult.

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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    Quote Originally Posted by CSP View Post
    the business outlook for p1 has certainly not improved with the latest announcements so i think it comes down to if p1 needs to collect some extra money to please their investors. i don´t think this is a small market and it will grow faster than before with cameras like the gfx so this could be a chance and software licenses guarantee a steady stream of money which probably is also not bad in times when hardware sales become more difficult.
    There is zero chance that Phase One will open up Capture One to non-Phase One medium format systems like those from Hasselblad and Fuji. Phase One perceives the availability of Capture One for its medium format digital backs to be a huge competitive advantage for those backs. There are many photographers who strongly prefer Capture One to any any other software. There are also many photographers who actually won't consider buying any camera that is not supported by Capture One. When Phase One eventually comes around to releasing its own mirrorless medium format digital system, Phase One surely wants to be able to say that it is the only one that is supported by Capture One.
    Anyone thinking of buying the X1D should assume that it's Phocus or Lightroom. Anyone thinking of buying the GFX should assume it's Fuji raw converter or Lightroom. I would make the same basic point about buying the GFX based upon the possibility of adapting non-legacy lenses. For anyone who watched the whole series of hits and misses and attendant frustration with trying to adapt non-legacy lenses to the Sony A7 series cameras, caution is advised. Buy based upon what you know works today, not what you think will work in the future.
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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    Quote Originally Posted by hcubell View Post
    There are many photographers who strongly prefer Capture One to any any other software. There are also many photographers who actually won't consider buying any camera that is not supported by Capture One. When Phase One eventually comes around to releasing its own mirrorless medium format digital system, Phase One surely wants to be able to say that it is the only one that is supported by Capture One.
    Sounds like me!... But the 645Z gave me a much bigger real boost in IQ than better color science could have squeezed out of a lesser system like a D810, so something had to go.
    Lightroom is no slouch as it used to be in the early days either, but the day Phase does allow other cameras to be used, is the day I switch back, even if it means having two years of photography in a different software.

    With the line between formats increasingly blurring, keeping the software arbitrarily gated is just arrogance. What's more important is how the systems are used; and a primarily tether-centric, leaf-shutter-enabled, removable-back camera is not competition for a camera designed to be used hand-held in available light. While I played with the idea of owning a Phase years past, I realized that none of the above features mattered to me.

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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    Quote Originally Posted by hcubell View Post
    There is zero chance that Phase One will open up Capture One to non-Phase One medium format systems like those from Hasselblad and Fuji. Phase One perceives the availability of Capture One for its medium format digital backs to be a huge competitive advantage for those backs. There are many photographers who strongly prefer Capture One to any any other software. There are also many photographers who actually won't consider buying any camera that is not supported by Capture One. When Phase One eventually comes around to releasing its own mirrorless medium format digital system, Phase One surely wants to be able to say that it is the only one that is supported by Capture One.
    Anyone thinking of buying the X1D should assume that it's Phocus or Lightroom. Anyone thinking of buying the GFX should assume it's Fuji raw converter or Lightroom. I would make the same basic point about buying the GFX based upon the possibility of adapting non-legacy lenses. For anyone who watched the whole series of hits and misses and attendant frustration with trying to adapt non-legacy lenses to the Sony A7 series cameras, caution is advised. Buy based upon what you know works today, not what you think will work in the future.
    If Phase One owners or potential buyers of a hypothetical Phase One Mirrorless have to wait as long on a Mirrorless camera as they did on the XF body then those who want Mirrorless MF will more than likely move on to other alternatives IMO.
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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    If Phase One owners or potential buyers of a hypothetical Phase One Mirrorless have to wait as long on a Mirrorless camera as they did on the XF body then those who want Mirrorless MF will more than likely move on to other alternatives IMO.
    I agree. P1 is in a bit of a tough position right now.
    Looks like their lenses are made now by SK, mostly, not much production within P1 itself, so it is not really in control. It is hard to know how much resources SK has to produce a completely new line of lenses, adapted for a mirrorless (compact lenses, very high quality, but probably f/4 instead of f/2.8 to keep them with a reasonnable size).
    The time it took to get the XF out also shows that camera design is a real challenge within the P1 structure.
    I hope P1 gets a mirrorless out soon (they'd better, the competition is already fierce) because choice is good. But I have my doubts... It's a LOT of work, designing a system from scratch. Of course, P1 has the sensor and software know how. But it also takes lens and camera design and manufacturing...
    Fuji (a huge company) and Hassi (much smaller) managed, so I have hopes for p1 too.

    I also see no reason why MF would be spared from the onslaught of Mirrorless. That approach has so many benefits, in terms of size and weight, and also some great usability features (face detection with eye-focus - how cool is that ? and manual focusing with live view magnification - also a life saver etc).

    Interesting times.

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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    Quote Originally Posted by hcubell View Post
    When Phase One eventually comes around to releasing its own mirrorless medium format digital system...
    It took like 50 years for them to release the XF (or, at least, it felt like 50 years), so I wouldn't get your hopes up. Then there's the lens line up - people typically want smaller, lighter, high IQ lenses for mirrorless - and those take time to develop, and then there's the price: can P1 get their head around selling a MF mirrorless camera with lens for around the $8k mark. The 'reassuringly expensive' ideology has been so pervasive for so long at P1 that, sadly, methinks not.
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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    Phase might well have a MF mirrorless in the plans, but for sure all the current lenses LS etc. would not be good players, due to the massive weight, and the fact they are all designed for a mirror box, so another 4K adapter would be needed, like the 400.00 Bob or 7K 150mm LS 2.8. Their pricing model is still in the stratosphere and the new driving force from other companies is well below that.

    Phase might figure out a way to apply an EVF to the existing XF, that might be a nice feature. You can already shoot in Live View san's the Focal shutter, with an LS lens, so it would be a good possible upgrade.

    No doubt the revolution has started with two great game changers already from Fuji and Hasselblad. Hopefully Phase sees where the direction of the market is headed, sooner than later.

    However it's really no different in the 35mm world either as the two largest players will wait until the last possible moment to go mirrorless, again due more than likely to the huge asset of glass already on the market.

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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    No C1 pretty much I'm out. That's me though and Phase will take years for a mirrorless. Watch Sony though they may just pull a rabbit out of the hat.
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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    Quote Originally Posted by Kolor-Pikker View Post
    Sounds like me!... But the 645Z gave me a much bigger real boost in IQ than better color science could have squeezed out of a lesser system like a D810, so something had to go.
    Lightroom is no slouch as it used to be in the early days either, but the day Phase does allow other cameras to be used, is the day I switch back, even if it means having two years of photography in a different software.

    With the line between formats increasingly blurring, keeping the software arbitrarily gated is just arrogance. What's more important is how the systems are used; and a primarily tether-centric, leaf-shutter-enabled, removable-back camera is not competition for a camera designed to be used hand-held in available light. While I played with the idea of owning a Phase years past, I realized that none of the above features mattered to me.
    I ran into this issue with my 645Z files once converting to C1. Sure they are not purely raw, but I brought them in as tiffs and all was OK since I go to PS6 with files anyway and they are tiffs when round tripping back into C1 anyway.

  27. #227
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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    does anybody know which memory cards will be supported by the camera?

  28. #228
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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    main dealer in Vietnam has updated his webpage, they say its available feb 2017,

    price is in Vietnamese currency approx USD 8400 [including VAT] body + 1 lens, a 64gb Sd card + fuji bag free etc etc

    http://phuquangkts.vn/fujifilm-gfx-5...1-1542179.html

  29. #229
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    Re: The Fuji GFX

    Quote Originally Posted by Satrycon View Post
    main dealer in Vietnam has updated his webpage, they say its available feb 2017,

    price is in Vietnamese currency approx USD 8400 [including VAT] body + 1 lens, a 64gb Sd card + fuji bag free etc etc

    http://phuquangkts.vn/fujifilm-gfx-5...1-1542179.html
    It will be interesting to see if that price holds through, as it will "surprise" a few folks I feel.

    Paul C

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