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Thread: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

  1. #51
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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    BTW: Is there an official (or unofficial ?) upgrade path from IQ1-80 -> IQ1-100 ?

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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    Quote Originally Posted by f8orbust View Post
    BTW: Is there an official (or unofficial ?) upgrade path from IQ1-80 -> IQ1-100 ?
    I hope to find out shortly and will share
    Don Libby
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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Libby View Post
    ....Two things I learned in life is that there's no free lunch and one-size doesn't fit everyone.
    Especially when you're 6'9".....


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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    The IQ1100 with firmware feature crippling is exactly the same as the irritation I had with my IQ150 vs IQ250 purchase. When I moved from my IQ260 to CMOS I wanted the functionality of the IQ150 that matched that of my IQ260 and IQ250 with the only missing feature being the WIFI and value added warranty. I literally saw no value in the WIFI due to the very poor performance in the IQ260, and I knew that the IQ150 internally would be identical to the IQ250 but without the WIFI module. The cost increment certainly wasn't worth the extra.

    When the IQ350 and XF system came along, Phase One added firmware features like the exposure map but only made them available for the IQ2 series and not the IQ1. That annoyed the heck out of me because the differentiator between the IQ2 and IQ1 was now crippled features beyond just the WIFI functionality & warranty that I personally didn't need/want. For the IQ3 series the hardware features for the XF integration, WIFI (and HDMI for IQ3100) plus warranty definitely make sense for incremental value. Crippling the firmware features like the exposure map/clip just seems unnecessary and I wouldn't ever find $10k in value to incent me to buy the IQ2/3 series version of my back.

    I am like Don in that I want to do the 100mp CMOS change but none of the IQ3 features are things that I need (and I'm differentiating between need vs want/like to have). I'm just still irritated that Phase One essentially have disabled the same parts of the code in the firmware when running on an IQ1 series back.
    Ylem ...
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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    I'm just still irritated that Phase One essentially have disabled the same parts of the code in the firmware when running on an IQ1 series back.
    I'm in agreement with you Graham. Still pissed that all it should take is a simple firmware update which hasn't happened yet. On the other hand, the last update did add some nice functions so there's hope still.
    Don Libby
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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    Talked to a P1 rep at the Kina. He did have an upgrade price from my IQ160 towards the IQ1-100. 18k+VAT. That values the IQ160 at around 7k. Did not think that was such a great offer.
    But he had a big table with all the upgrade prices, so there is something official.

    I was a bit dissapointed by the P1 presence this year. Very small, cramped booth, and not much new to show. But it was the same for Leica.

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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    €7k ... hmmm ... dealers are asking €15k for used IQ160s.

    Probably better off selling it yourself. I've seen them go around the €10k in the past, though obviously with the release of the X1D and GFX I would imagine a lot of people thinking about getting into MF see those cameras as far greater value propositions.

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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    Your overall point here is definitely correct. However:
    - the IQ1 100mp kit comes with an 80LS Blue Ring
    - the IQ3 100mp kit kit comes with your choice of prime lens.

    As discussed on our IQ3 Kit Update article and shown in the IQ3 100mp product page.

    So the difference is still less than it seems, but more than you've described here.
    This does actually make for an interesting comparison.

    Difference in price between the IQ1 and IQ3 100MP backs is $11,000. If bought as a kit, that price differential stays the same, but, if you "max out" the blue-ring prime lens with the IQ3, then that takes care of roughly $3,700 of the gap.

    The 5 year VAR IIRC used to be something in the region of a $4K additional cost? That now comes "free" with the IQ3, but has been "removed" from the IQ1 (as has always been the case across the IQ1 range since the IQ2 was introduced).

    So actually the "true" price differential between the two options is only $3,300.

    I can easily see the "better" sales guys out there managing to up-sell 70% plus of their prospects who would have purchased the IQ1 100 into purchasing the IQ3 100. All that peace of mind over a 5 year period for just an extra two bucks a day? No brainer. Isn't it!

    FFS. I'm almost convinced myself!


    Kind regards,


    Gerald.
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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    I'd been struggling to figure out what the IQ1-100 was all about ... but when you put it like that, it does make sense ... to P1's sales of the IQ3-100, that is.

    That said, the fact that a $33k digital back comes with the same warranty as a toaster from Walmart (1 year RTM) is laughable.

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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    In my experience after owning SIX Phase One / Leaf backs is that they are either DOA or have problems on delivery or they are flawless / flawless after the initial issue. i.e rock solid after year one, or in my couple of cases day one.

    Now you could argue WTF with receiving two backs that needed immediate fix (or in my case replacement) on day one of delivery. Others have been rock solid, as were after the initial failures. That said, when we pay this much they absolutely should not ever be received with any problems whatsoever. EVER!!.

    In my own personal experience years two to five have only ever required at most a sensor remap with CCD and that would be complementary anyway.
    Ylem ...

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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    That said, the fact that a $33k digital back comes with the same warranty as a toaster from Walmart (1 year RTM) is laughable.
    I don't even think that's legal in the UK? (For sales to private individuals, it's legal with B to B transactions not B to C) should be 3-5 years I.e an acceptable timeframe.
    never trust the opinion of anyone who lists a load of gear in their forum signature. Dealers do not email me asking to buy your products.

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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    Quote Originally Posted by miska View Post
    Talked to a P1 rep at the Kina. He did have an upgrade price from my IQ160 towards the IQ1-100. 18k+VAT. That values the IQ160 at around 7k. Did not think that was such a great offer.
    But he had a big table with all the upgrade prices, so there is something official.

    I was a bit dissapointed by the P1 presence this year. Very small, cramped booth, and not much new to show. But it was the same for Leica.
    I I understand. The upgrade from you 160 to a IQ3 100 was 18k euro? Personally I would be all over that. It was it for a IQ1 100?

    If the former that is much better Thani was offered for the same deal earlier this year for my 260. Much better.

    Paul C

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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul2660 View Post
    I I understand. The upgrade from you 160 to a IQ3 100 was 18k euro? Personally I would be all over that. It was it for a IQ1 100?

    If the former that is much better Thani was offered for the same deal earlier this year for my 260. Much better.

    Paul C
    No, the offer was IQ160 -> IQ1-100.
    I would have hoped that the offer would have been better than I would get on the free market. It is not obvious that this is the case (but I haven't looked at the used prices for an IQ160 - and I'd rather not, it may be too depressing :-) )

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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    Based on the list price of €30k for an IQ1-100:

    If they are 'only' wanting €18k, that prices your IQ160 @ €12k, which is a great price for the IQ160.

    If they are 'only' wanting €18k, and you say that prices your IQ160 @ €7k, that means the price of the IQ1-100 is €25k. Are they really discounting it by €5k on list ? If so, that's pretty good too.
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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    Digitalstore Vienna lists IQ1-100 at 32000, VAT included. If they asked for 18000 plus VAT= 21600(20% VAT in Austria), it's than 10400 for IQ160. Still not bad.
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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    Hmmmm. It's a bad deal. A bad deal. Period.

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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    IQ160 -> IQ3100 is ~US$30k.
    IQ160 -> IQ1100 is ~US$23k.

    The pricing seems set by Phase, and no flexibility available.

    Have to say though, having just played with a IQ3, with the WIFI, on a technical camera with tilts etc, the usage is REALLY nice. (Compared to my IQ160). The field workflow is like night & day. And an iPad mini or iPad Air in the field is a whole load lighter than an SP2 etc.

    Add in the 5yr Warranty, couple of the other things, and yeah, I can see it. However, each to their own.

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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    Quote Originally Posted by Frederic View Post
    Will there ever be another one ? One can really wonder, with Mamiya Leaf keeping such a low profile since the Credo50 2 years ago.



    AFAIC : pricing, color profiles/processing pipeline, GUI
    With Capture One 9.3 you can get the Leaf looks for IQ backs:
    https://digitaltransitions.com/leaf-...0mp-iq3-100mp/

    That if something surely indicates that Phase One's intention is to get Leaf users to move to IQ, and that there will be no new Leaf products. But sure, why not? As I see it the main reason users chose Leaf was for the look, and if you can have the same look with IQ backs -- problem solved.

    We'll there's the pricing of course, but it's better for Phase One to sell an expensive back than a cheap back, and I guess they have confidence enough that Leaf users won't go elsewhere anyway. IQ1 is the new budget series, so the "budget brand" Leaf is no longer needed.

    Only my guesses of course, but I think the indications are pretty clear, at this point I would be surprised if a new Leaf product like a Credo 100 gets released.

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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    Just going back over old ground here, but if my math is correct:

    The IQ3-100 is $48k with an XF, a prime lens, a 5 year warranty and all the bells and whistles just announced (electronic shutter in particular), and those yet to be announced.

    Since the XF is $8k, and the 35mm in $6.5k (if you choose that as the prime lens), that makes the IQ3-100 effectively $33.5k with a 5 year warranty and all the bells and whistles just announced (electronic shutter in particular), and those yet to be announced.

    Now, the IQ1-100 is $33k without the 5 year warranty, nor any of the bells and whistles - either now or in the future.

    So, a $500 saving.

    Seriously ?

    Ok, if you resell the XF and 35mm you're not going to get list prices, but for these two bits of highly desirable kit, new and under warranty, you're going to get back at least ~80% of list, so the IQ3-100 is going to end up costing you ~$3.4k more than the IQ1-100. And for that you get the 5 year warranty and all the other stuff.

    At $33k, the IQ1-100 makes no sense to me. There's just not enough daylight between it and the IQ3-100. In fact, with dealer discounting, trade-ins etc. I'd imagine there could be a scenario where the price works out to be the same, or possibly the IQ3-100 works out to be less. C-R-A-Z-Y.

    IMO the IQ1-100 should be, at the very most, $25k.

    Just my 2c (or do I mean $8k ?)

    Jim

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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    I spoke with Dave Gallagher last Wednesday on an other matter and ended up ordering the IQ1-100. Got an email that he has it in his hands as of this morning and I will have it shortly. Yes, there's an upgrade path from the IQ180 however since there's been a very long term relationship with my dealer I may have gotten a slightly better deal; one of which I'm not comfortable in sharing.

    In short - yes there's an upgrade path however I strongly recommend you contact your dealer for information and if you don't have a dealer then I recommend Capture Integration. Took 8-days from ordering to delivery to the dealer.

    Don
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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Libby View Post
    In short - yes there's an upgrade path however I strongly recommend you contact your dealer for information and if you don't have a dealer then I recommend Capture Integration. Took 8-days from ordering to delivery to the dealer.

    Don
    Congratulations Don !
    8 days - that is pretty fast.
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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Libby View Post
    I spoke with Dave Gallagher last Wednesday on an other matter and ended up ordering the IQ1-100. Got an email that he has it in his hands as of this morning and I will have it shortly. Yes, there's an upgrade path from the IQ180 however since there's been a very long term relationship with my dealer I may have gotten a slightly better deal; one of which I'm not comfortable in sharing...
    Anyone reading this going from an IQ1-80 --> IQ1-100 should contact CI and ask for the 'Don Libby deal'

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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Libby View Post
    I spoke with Dave Gallagher last Wednesday on an other matter and ended up ordering the IQ1-100.

    <snip>

    Don
    Now that's impressive salesmanship

    Congratulations on the upgrade!
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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    Quote Originally Posted by f8orbust View Post
    Anyone reading this going from an IQ1-80 --> IQ1-100 should contact CI and ask for the 'Don Libby deal'
    good luck with that
    Don Libby
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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Libby View Post
    good luck with that

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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    You know there must be a CI "Pigs" special.....

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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    Another update...

    Been fighting a cold since we returned from our last trip so haven't felt like doing much of anything. However, got the new IQ1-100 yesterday and played with it for a little shooting mainly indoors low light. High ISO files are clean and crisp and the color is good. I've updated C1 as well as the XF and everything is working well together. I see this back helping to extend shooting into nightscape getting away from having to use a 7rII likewise I see this allowing me to get better files while I craw into cliff dwellings in low light. If I still shot with a tech cam I would have been all over the IQ3 however I don't and this suits my needs much better. The only person (outside of my wife) I need to please is myself and I'm very pleased with the IQ1-100.

    I thought 80-megapixel had resolution - 100- blows that thought out of the water!
    Don Libby
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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Libby View Post
    ...

    The only person (outside of my wife) I need to please is myself and I'm very pleased with the IQ1-100.

    I thought 80-megapixel had resolution - 100- blows that thought out of the water!
    Under advisement from my banker I've just added Don (& Ken obviously) to my forum ignore list again
    Ylem ...
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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    Under advisement from my banker I've just added Don (& Ken obviously) to my forum ignore list again
    I've never named any of my backs before until this one. Lucille is red hot and worth the money. We'll see ya in Bluff next year...
    Don Libby
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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    Under advisement from my banker I've just added Don (& Ken obviously) to my forum ignore list again
    Geeez. All I did was suggest you buy a second Range Rover to make it easier to hold all your new camera gear.

    Let me or Don know if you need any help picking out a color.


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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Libby View Post
    Another update...

    Been fighting a cold since we returned from our last trip so haven't felt like doing much of anything. However, got the new IQ1-100 yesterday and played with it for a little shooting mainly indoors low light. High ISO files are clean and crisp and the color is good. I've updated C1 as well as the XF and everything is working well together. I see this back helping to extend shooting into nightscape getting away from having to use a 7rII likewise I see this allowing me to get better files while I craw into cliff dwellings in low light. If I still shot with a tech cam I would have been all over the IQ3 however I don't and this suits my needs much better. The only person (outside of my wife) I need to please is myself and I'm very pleased with the IQ1-100.

    I thought 80-megapixel had resolution - 100- blows that thought out of the water!
    Congratulations! Finally you got rid of CCD!

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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    Quote Originally Posted by voidshatter View Post
    Congratulations! Finally you got rid of CCD!
    You act as if the CCD sensor was such a bad thing for Don. Of course, you don't know Don like I do. I too acquired the IQ3 100MP with the CMOS chip. But it wasn't because I felt I needed to get "rid of CCD".

    ken
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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    Quote Originally Posted by kdphotography View Post
    You act as if the CCD sensor was such a bad thing for Don. Of course, you don't know Don like I do. I too acquired the IQ3 100MP with the CMOS chip. But it wasn't because I felt I needed to get "rid of CCD".

    ken
    Of course, CCD is fantastic! You guys are just exceptionally wealthy and can do whatever you like with your money

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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    Quote Originally Posted by voidshatter View Post
    Of course, CCD is fantastic! You guys are just exceptionally wealthy and can do whatever you like with your money
    Exactly the type of response I expected from you. CCD isn't for everyone just as CMOS. In the end you use the tools that work best for you. I love it when people force their thoughts on others; it called bullying - I'd respond more if I didn't think your were such a huge PIA.
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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    Here's what's made me feel that the XF/IQ3100 has been a good choice:-

    Focus Stacking
    Hyperfocal setting
    Electronic shutter
    SK120Macro
    SK35
    Ability now write metadata to Tech Camera files.
    Ability to select by sequence in C1.

    From being a somewhat frustrated DF user who felt the need to explore the Tech camera option Update 3 (and 2 before it) make me feel I've now got the best of both worlds.

    Nothing but positive as far as I'm concerned. Couldn't be happier.
    Miles Flint
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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    Quote Originally Posted by MILESF View Post
    Here's what's made me feel that the XF/IQ3100 has been a good choice:-

    Focus Stacking
    Hyperfocal setting
    Electronic shutter
    SK120Macro
    SK35
    Ability now write metadata to Tech Camera files.
    Ability to select by sequence in C1.

    From being a somewhat frustrated DF user who felt the need to explore the Tech camera option Update 3 (and 2 before it) make me feel I've now got the best of both worlds.

    Nothing but positive as far as I'm concerned. Couldn't be happier.
    One of my pet peeves during the time I shot with a tech cam was the lack of metadata info so I'm pleased to see this function added.
    Don Libby
    Iron Creek Photography
    Blog
    Tucson AZ
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  37. #87
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    Quote Originally Posted by voidshatter View Post
    Of course, CCD is fantastic! You guys are just exceptionally wealthy and can do whatever you like with your money
    Another great, constructive post from Void.

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