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Thread: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

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    Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    For Photokina...

    Phase One IQ1 100mp - Same image quality as the IQ3 100mp, minus a few features, at a lower price

    IQ3 Kit Update - The 5-year warranty now covers unlimited number of captures and you get a prime lens of your choice with purchase

    Schneider 150LS f/2.8 and Schneider 45LS - Both new optics in the same league as the coveted Schneider 35LS Blue Ring. Raw files available at link.

    Capture One 9.3 - In-C1 support for Eizo self calibrating monitor calibration, and support for new cameras and lenses. Discounted promo for the next week.

    And there is even more to come after Kina.

    Questions on any of the above? Post them here or contact us. We have members of our team at Photokina meeting with Phase One executives now, and should be able to get answers quickly.
    Last edited by dougpeterson; 20th September 2016 at 02:09.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    Wondering about the difference between IQ1 and IQ3?

    Phase One IQ1 100mp vs IQ3 100mp
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
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    Senior Member DougDolde's Avatar
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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    Where's the Credo 100?

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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    The IQ1 100 "lower price" link doesn't seem to link to the price (it actually is a bad link, but I managed to work out where the page was).

    It's kind of frustrating to have click-bait like that doesn't actually give you the promised information...


    Edit.

    Ahh. Found another page. Starting at US$33K.

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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    Quote Originally Posted by DougDolde View Post
    Where's the Credo 100?

    Don't really think it will come. Wouldn't it be here by now ?

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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    Quote Originally Posted by gerald.d View Post
    [SIZE=1]The IQ1 100 "lower price" link doesn't seem to link to the price (it actually is a bad link, but I managed to work out where the page was).
    Pricing link fixed:
    https://digitaltransitions.com/produ...-digital-back/
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    Quote Originally Posted by DougDolde View Post
    Where's the Credo 100?
    No Leaf announcements will be made at Photokina.

    What would you like to see in a Credo 100 that isn't present in the IQ1 100mp?
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    Wondering about the difference between IQ1 and IQ3?

    Phase One IQ1 100mp vs IQ3 100mp
    Probably worth updating your page to include the fact that HDMI is not part of the IQ1 100. I had to download the tech specs from Phase One to find that.

    Nice to see a lower priced option for the quality goodness of the 100mp sensor.
    Ylem ...
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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    No Leaf announcements will be made at Photokina.
    Will there ever be another one ? One can really wonder, with Mamiya Leaf keeping such a low profile since the Credo50 2 years ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    What would you like to see in a Credo 100 that isn't present in the IQ1 100mp?
    AFAIC : pricing, color profiles/processing pipeline, GUI

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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    So, P1 are officially pitching themselves as the MF company that gives you less for less. Is it April 1st already ? Wow.

    Yet again they continue their strategy of carpet bombing the space, and as a consequence their line-up gets even more muddled I assumed they would look to rationalize it, keep the P1 brand for the latest tech (@50MP and 100MP) and use Leaf to compete with H/B (again @ 50MP and 100MP). But, with this announcement, it looks like Leaf are officially a dead end. Shame.

    So, for the same money as the IQ1-100 (~$33k) H/B give you their best DB (no lingering feeling that you've been hamstrung), and a camera as well.

    Go figure.
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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    Ditto, and most of the feature removed are software related.....

    Quote Originally Posted by f8orbust View Post
    So, P1 are officially pitching themselves as the MF company that gives you less for less. Is it April 1st already ? Wow.

    Yet again they continue their strategy of carpet bombing the space, and as a consequence their line-up gets even more muddled I assumed they would look to rationalize it, keep the P1 brand for the latest tech (@50MP and 100MP) and use Leaf to compete with H/B (again @ 50MP and 100MP). But, with this announcement, it looks like Leaf are officially a dead end. Shame.

    So, for the same money as the IQ1-100 (~$33k) H/B give you their best DB (no lingering feeling that you've been hamstrung), and a camera as well.

    Go figure.

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    Senior Member Jamgolf's Avatar
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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    I would've thought the stripped down version of the IQ3-100 (i.e. sans HDMI, Wifi etc.) would might be released as Credo 100.
    In any case, for those interested in an IQ3-100 now have a choice, and can opt for a IQ1-100 if they don't need the HDMI, Wifi etc.
    Competition is a good thing. It gives options to buyers and keeps prices in check or brings them lower.

    If this was available when I made my purchase, I would've wanted to save the $$.
    It's still good news, as far as I am concerned.
    IQ3 100 H • Cambo 1200 • Rodenstock 32HR 90HRSW
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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    no more IQ260... the friendly back for technical camera !

    the new 45 is supposed to be good for architecture... what about tilt and shift ?

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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamgolf View Post
    In any case, for those interested in an IQ3-100 now have a choice, and can opt for a IQ1-100 if they don't need the HDMI, Wifi etc.
    I'm obviously biased, but I also think this is hard to view as anything but positive for the consumer.

    For eight months there was only one shipping 100mp option. As of recently (AFAIK) Hassy is shipping theirs so there are two. Now there are three. Each with different price points, features, software, lens sets etc. If you consider that the two Phase One options can also be purchased in an H mount then there are five options.

    More choices for the consumer I'd view as a positive.

    But... haters gonna hate .
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    But... haters gonna hate .
    I don't think that's got anything to do with it.

    For me it's more of, 'Is this really the best they can come up with, given what other companies are doing ?'

    Unfortunately, it seems it is.

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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    Quote Originally Posted by f8orbust View Post
    I don't think that's got anything to do with it.

    For me it's more of, 'Is this really the best they can come up with ?'

    Unfortunately, it seems it is.
    In the last couple years they've released several new widely-acknowledged-as-fantastic lenses, a body with a very powerful feature set and met with very positive reviews, the first (and for 8 months only) 100mp full-frame CMOS back, several incremental releases of Capture One bringing long-requested power features that further separates it from other raw processing and tethering apps, the world's first unlimited-actuation warranty on a pro camera, and you're knocking them for lack of innovation or?

    The IQ1 100mp isn't a revolutionary new camera that pushes the ball forward. I don't think anyone is saying otherwise. But it's a welcome addition to a lineup that diversifies options for potential users.

    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    Here's the feature list IQ3 vs IQ1 (from the DT website), I think it pretty much speaks for itself:

    IQ3 IQ1 Features
    Yes No Capture from Live View
    Yes No Exposure Calculator
    Yes Yes XF Camera Controls from Home Screen
    Yes No XF Camera Controls from Tool view
    Yes No XF Camera Controls from Camera Menu
    Yes No XF Camera Menu with settings for XF
    Yes No Exposure Zone Tool
    Yes No Clip Warning Tool
    Yes No Auto ISO and ISO control
    Yes No Integrated Wi-Fi 802.11n
    Yes Yes USB 3
    Yes Yes Firewire 800
    Yes No High capacity back interface
    Yes No Power Share with hot pluggable batteries
    Yes No Full system power via XF Power Supply
    Yes No Advanced Battery Status Indicators
    Yes No USB3 Charging from Hub(1500mA)
    Yes No 5 Year Uptime Guarantee (loaner)
    Yes No Free lens choice upon purchase
    Yes No Pelican Storm Case (w/ handle & wheels)
    Yes No Modular F-stop ICU for camera system
    Yes No Laptop Compartment, Built-in Tether Shade
    Yes No Card Reader and CF card
    Yes No Lens Calibration plate
    Yes No 2 batteries
    Yes No Tech camera sync cable

    The one that caught my eye - for $33k you get you a (*drum roll*) ... 1 year warranty

    Noticed you like using the car analogy Doug - tell me, would you buy a new car for $33k that only came with a 1 year warranty ?

    Way to go P1.
    Last edited by f8orbust; 21st September 2016 at 05:16. Reason: Incredulity

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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    Quote Originally Posted by f8orbust View Post
    Here's the feature list IQ3 vs IQ1 (from the DT website):
    And HDMI Yes No

    As reminded by Graham above and shortly to be updated on our website. (Thanks Graham!)
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    Quote Originally Posted by f8orbust View Post
    The one that caught my eye - for $33k you get you a (*drum roll*) ... 1 year warranty Noticed you like using the car analogy Doug - tell me, would you buy a new car for $33k with a 1 year warranty ?
    I live in NYC, and haven't purchased or owned a car of any kind for many years!

    We work with such a large variety of clients. Trust me, some will prefer to save the money, and some will prefer a 5-year "unlimited miles"* warranty with loaner, and a bevy of features. I don't begrudge either decision.

    *The 5-year IQ3 warranty has been revamped to have no actuation limit.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    Is there any IQ180 --> IQ1 100 upgrade pricing yet?
    J R

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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    I understand for some clients the extra 4 years of warranty and unlimited actuation's plus loaner will make a big difference. For me personally, I'm not going to be putting that type of mileage on my equipment and looking at the cost difference between just the backs (being an XF user already) it's about $11,000. For that I get power sharing, hdmi, wifi, and some nice software feature upgrades. For me, that is what is frustrating. There is such a premium for features that should be standard.

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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    Quote Originally Posted by Junk Bond View Post
    I understand for some clients the extra 4 years of warranty and unlimited actuation's plus loaner will make a big difference. For me personally, I'm not going to be putting that type of mileage on my equipment and looking at the cost difference between just the backs (being an XF user already) it's about $11,000. For that I get power sharing, hdmi, wifi, and some nice software feature upgrades. For me, that is what is frustrating. There is such a premium for features that should be standard.
    Agreed! If the IQ1 100mp had all the features/warranty of the IQ3 100mp, but had the same lower price of the IQ1 100mp that would be a great option to pick. But isn't this just saying that you wish the IQ3 100mp was less expensive? I can definitely understand that. I wish Macallum 18 had the finish of Macallum 25 at the price of Macallum 18.

    Actually, I just want any Macallum. I didn't get much sleep last night!
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    Agreed! If the IQ1 100mp had all the features/warranty of the IQ3 100mp, but had the same lower price of the IQ1 100mp that would be a great option to pick. But isn't this just saying that you wish the IQ3 100mp was less expensive? I can definitely understand that. I wish Macallum 18 had the finish of Macallum 25 at the price of Macallum 18.

    Actually, I just want any Macallum. I didn't get much sleep last night!
    True, but there is still Macallum in both and while there might be Phase One in both backs, the IQ1 is really crippled. In addition I find 1 year warranty a bad joke. We don't need 5 years but at least the more (for Europe) normal 2/3 years...

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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    Agreed! If the IQ1 100mp had all the features/warranty of the IQ3 100mp, but had the same lower price of the IQ1 100mp that would be a great option to pick. But isn't this just saying that you wish the IQ3 100mp was less expensive? I can definitely understand that. I wish Macallum 18 had the finish of Macallum 25 at the price of Macallum 18.

    Actually, I just want any Macallum. I didn't get much sleep last night!
    I hear you Doug. All I'm saying is instead of sticking the 100 in the older outdated IQ1 body that is physically limited from providing features that really should be included in all new Phase products introduced (power sharing, wifi, hdmi), why not not leave it in the IQ3 and limit it's abilities through software. This would also allow customers to purchase upgrades without obsoleting an entire back.
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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    I'd not picked up on the warranty thing.

    A 1 year warranty on a $33k digital back is a disgrace. Phase One seriously need to reevaluate this.

    Is there even an option to "upgrade" the warranty?
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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    Quote Originally Posted by gerald.d View Post
    I'd not picked up on the warranty thing.

    A 1 year warranty on a $33k digital back is a disgrace. Phase One seriously need to reevaluate this.

    Is there even an option to "upgrade" the warranty?
    this 1 year warranty just doesn't make sense to me. it suggests they don't have confidence in their product, and then you look at the price?
    It's definitely a piss-take.
    never trust the opinion of anyone who lists a load of gear in their forum signature. Dealers do not email me asking to buy your products.

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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    I'm in the market/mood to upgrade my 180 to 100mp. I no longer use a tech cam and have been shooting nightscapes with the A7r II and want better coverage. There's many things the IQ3-100 offer that I either no longer need or just not interested in but was willing to pay when it was the only game in town. Now I'm no longer sure the IQ1-100 is available. It appears I'll keep the same tools I've been using with the 180 with the addition of much longer shutter times and a boost in ISO. What I'll need to learn is the upgrade path.
    Don Libby
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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    When I bought my IQ150 and traded away from the IQ260 that I had before, I consciously chose a cheaper option of the 150 vs 250 as things like wifi support simply sucked and TBH none of my MFDBs had warranty issues outside of the first week (or actually on delivery).

    With the newer IQ3 series there are some more nice to have features like the clip/exposure map & HDMI that I wouldn't mind having but the rest don't matter much to me for day to day shooting on both XF and tech camera. However, I'm not sure that they are worth $10k+ (to me).

    Like Don, I'm thinking that this might hasten my move to the 100mp back. Of course the question is what does it take to change and whether to keep my current IQ150 & buy IQ100 vs a trade.
    Ylem ...
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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Libby View Post
    I'm in the market/mood to upgrade my 180 to 100mp. I no longer use a tech cam and have been shooting nightscapes with the A7r II and want better coverage. There's many things the IQ3-100 offer that I either no longer need or just not interested in but was willing to pay when it was the only game in town. Now I'm no longer sure the IQ1-100 is available. It appears I'll keep the same tools I've been using with the 180 with the addition of much longer shutter times and a boost in ISO. What I'll need to learn is the upgrade path.
    to me they have removed features which are pretty valuable - obviously the price is pretty steep.

    Power sharing ... on several occasions I have seen my back battery drain down to the point of needing to replace it. This of course usually happens as I get towards the end of a shoot and I need 10 to 15 more minutes. Sometimes it is when the light is perfect. I don’t need to pull the battery because the body battery is still usually at 80% or better. Very helpful.

    The wifi coupled with Live View and camera controls on an iPhone 6s+ is something I don’t think I can live without. I find myself managing composition and focusing from the iPhone screen most of the time. I have left the world of autofocusing on my XF for most of what I do ... despite how good it is, it is just too quick to zoom in on the phone screen and nail focus perfect every time. despite the issues with the focus stack tool and lack of an effective way to use autofocus to set the near and far points, with Live View on the IQ3 100 and an iPad or iPhone, it’s incredibly easy and very precise to setup and run a focus stack sequence. I also control the camera from the phone most the time, easier than switching to the back controls and for me (vertically challenged) easier than seeing the top of the camera controls.

    I have on several occasions used the camera very low or very high, and using the iPhone makes this pleasurable as I’m standing by the camera, not kneeling/crouching, or not need my aluminum 2 step ladder with me.

    I wish there was a “focus” mode to live view, where the camera would open up for precise focusing. I’ve found I get the best results when I open up the lens to focus when setting up a focus stack, or when I’m trying to focus precisely on a specific item in the scene.

    Also looking at the list of difference, is that list a DT bundle (are they throwing in a few things, like the card reader and tech camera cable?) Seems some of what is there isn’t from Phase ...

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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    The list looks about right for someone buying a new XF3-100 camera outfit vs just the back or an upgrade. Most of the goodies listed at the end of the list don't come with upgrades typically.
    Ylem ...

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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    Chaps -

    Are the CMOS 100MP back shift issues only related to the the wide angle tech lenses? I'm considering going for the IQ1 100 - it would make a lot of sense for me I think.

    I'm using the APO Digitar 5.6/120 on my CAPCam, more often than not with substantial tilts, swings & shifts, typically in the 500-600mm focal range.

    Thanks in advance for any guidance.

    Kind regards,


    Gerald.

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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    The 120mm APO digitar N is pretty much hitting the sensor straight on given the distance of lens elements to the sensor. I wouldn't expect to see any of these artifacts unless you really shifted/tilted to the image circle extremes and even then it's unlikely to be anywhere close to the effects from a much closer wide angle lens.

    if you are talking about the macro version or shooting macro on a tech cam then the lens/back distance will be even longer so less extreme angles for the light hitting the sensor.
    Ylem ...
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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    The 120mm APO digitar N is pretty much hitting the sensor straight on given the distance of lens elements to the sensor. I wouldn't expect to see any of these artifacts unless you really shifted/tilted to the image circle extremes and even then it's unlikely to be anywhere close to the effects from a much closer wide angle lens.

    if you are talking about the macro version or shooting macro on a tech cam then the lens/back distance will be even longer so less extreme angles for the light hitting the sensor.
    Thanks Graham for the quick response. Much appreciated.

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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    BTW, the whole issues with wides on the CMOS, IMO is a bit over stated. See images below.

    All taken with 32 Rod, IQ100, 12mm of left shift. before and after LCC.

    Images are a bit out of order, but it's easy to tell which is which.

    No other image work done here, just a straight LCC conversion applied to the file.

    It's quite apparent that before the LCC is applied there is a color shift and loss of saturation. I am using the CF on the 32mm as IMO light fall off is too much other wise.
    The LCC does a very good job of bringing back the color and saturation level to be very close to the middle of the shifted image, which is not effected by the shift.
    The gains, over CCD, are the fact that noise levels are nominal to neutral which would not be the case with CCD, this is ISO 200 for the test, and CCD would not being to have as much color and details left on a shift this far past base ISO, (from my experience) and CCD at 200 would not very nominal shadow gain over noise on the shifted image.

    Best case is rent and test with your environment but the quality of the shifted images is quite good in most situations.

    Paul C
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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul2660 View Post
    The gains, over CCD, are the fact that noise levels are nominal to neutral which would not be the case with CCD, this is ISO 200 for the test, and CCD would not being to have as much color and details left on a shift this far past base ISO, (from my experience) and CCD at 200 would not very nominal shadow gain over noise on the shifted image.
    Upgrading towards a CMOS sensor is definitely a wise move. CCD is "obsolete" in many ways (for me).

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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    The list looks about right for someone buying a new XF3-100 camera outfit vs just the back or an upgrade. Most of the goodies listed at the end of the list don't come with upgrades typically.
    Correct. This is for new purchases. Upgrades have a different set of accessories (along, obviously, with a different price), which has always made sense to me; there isn't much incremental value in the third Phase One Rolling Case someone ends up with.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    Quote Originally Posted by JRBERNSTEIN View Post
    Is there any IQ180 --> IQ1 100 upgrade pricing yet?
    P1 haven't exactly covered themselves in glory in the past when it comes to upgrades, but I'd be really surprised if there was no path. Don't think they'll use the MP count as a % discount mind you.

    That said, they could argue the IQ1 chassis is 'old tech' and so, rather than an upgrade, IQ1 -> IQ1 is a crossgrade (i.e. the price that they quote you makes you cross). Naturally, this would cost you more than an upgrade.

    Would be surprised if they allowed an upgrade (downgrade ?) from an IQ2XX body to the IQ1-100, but kudos to P1 if they do.

    Since P1 are now in the business of sticking newer sensors in older bodies, how about a P-100 ? Might be able to afford that version.

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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    Quote Originally Posted by f8orbust View Post
    Since P1 are now in the business of sticking newer sensors in older bodies, how about a P-100 ? Might be able to afford that version.
    I would hold out for the P100+ back myself.
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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    Think I'm going to go all in and wait for one of these:

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    Thumbs down Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    I wonder how much R&D effort went into crippling the IQ3 100? To go back to the car analogy, it's like shipping a fully equipped car and then having the dealer remove pieces to sell it for a lower price. Extra work to artificially lower price, rather than offering a better value on the original product does not produce value.

    There are new entries into MF at MUCH lower prices than P1, but the cropped frames compared to the IQ3 100 (and my IQ 180) are deal breakers for me. But it is only a matter of time before we see 40 x 54mm mirrorless bodies.

    I can't tell you how disappointed I am that PhaseOne has chosen to waste its R&D to cripple a great product instead of delivering a 100MP mirrorless body at a fair price.

    Paul


    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    I'm obviously biased, but I also think this is hard to view as anything but positive for the consumer.

    For eight months there was only one shipping 100mp option. As of recently (AFAIK) Hassy is shipping theirs so there are two. Now there are three. Each with different price points, features, software, lens sets etc. If you consider that the two Phase One options can also be purchased in an H mount then there are five options.

    More choices for the consumer I'd view as a positive.

    But... haters gonna hate .
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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    Still can't quite believe that the ability to capture directly from live view has been disabled. For a CMOS back this is such a useful feature, and for a back that still costs $33k, disabling it seems like a stupidly punitive thing to do.
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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    Quote Originally Posted by f8orbust View Post
    Still can't quite believe that the ability to capture directly from live view has been disabled. For a CMOS back this is such a useful feature, and for a back that still costs $33k, disabling it seems like a stupidly punitive thing to do.
    Yes but those who have paid even more for their back want to feel they have some 'added value' for the big wedge of extra cash.

    The only other way they could have done it is to leave the features as they are and offer special editions with the signature of the current CEO (whoever that is) or celebrity endorsed luxury finishes.
    never trust the opinion of anyone who lists a load of gear in their forum signature. Dealers do not email me asking to buy your products.

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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    I guess so. But what was P1 thinking ? I mean, people sat down around a table and actually thought this was a good idea. Wow. They clearly didn't put themselves in the position of the user. Imagine the experience of someone using this CMOS back: composing in live view and then facing the frustration of not being able to simply capture the image they are seeing at the press of a button. Even a $100 compact camera can do this. That a $33k digital back can't is just plain ridiculous; it's what CMOS is all about.

    Can't help but think that now, with the mirrorless sea change occurring in the world of MF, this would have been a great time for P1 to simply bite the bullet and pitch the price of the IQ3-100 at the same price as the H6D-100c, and adjust the price of the rest of their line-up accordingly.

    No need to introduce 'bridge' products like the IQ1-100.

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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    Until now PhaseOne had my highest respect. High prices were thought to be necessary to support the cost of R&D and manufacture. This latest stunt, however, positions P1 as just another company out to milk the consumer.

    To PhaseOne-- What do you plan to do to earn back our respect?

    Paul
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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    Quote Originally Posted by f8orbust View Post
    Still can't quite believe that the ability to capture directly from live view has been disabled. For a CMOS back this is such a useful feature, and for a back that still costs $33k, disabling it seems like a stupidly punitive thing to do.
    I am a current XF/IQ3-100 owner. A few thoughts:

    1. The inability to capture from live view wouldn't bother me in the slightest. I have that functionality now and never (I mean literally never) use it. I use the camera like a traditional camera: i.e., optical viewing and image capture. I don't like taking pictures through a video screen. (I realize others have different needs and priorities, though).

    2. Speaking of which: I'll continue to harp on the fact that I hope the mirrorless medium format trend doesn't take over the world: I don't like, and won't use, EVFs.

    3. More generally, I think folks might be missing a few things regarding the IQ1-100 v IQ3-100 feature set and pricing. The most important is that the price delta between the IQ3-100 and the new IQ1-100 is far less than it appears because they are now including *a free lens of your choice with the IQ3-100.* That was not the case when I bought my IQ3-100. Granted, that makes no difference if you're only planning to use the IQ back with a view camera, but if you plan to use it with an XF body, you need a lens. (In fact, even if you plan *never* to use the back on an XF body, you could get the IQ3-100 anyway and sell the brand new lens to recoup that cost).

    Let's say you want the 40-80 zoom, which costs around $9000 list price: that means that the difference between buying the IQ3-100 versus the IQ1-100 is "only" about $2000, not $11,000. If you think the missing features on the IQ1-100 are that important, then it's probably worth getting the IQ3-100 and getting those extra features for the extra $2000.

    For me, if I were buying new, the vast majority of the features differences would make no difference to me whatsoever. I don't shoot in Live View; I don't use HDMI; I don't use any of the exposure calculation tools (I know how to do that myself); I don't shoot pictures from the controls on the rear screen (I use the shutter button); I don't use Auto ISO on this camera; and i have more than enough camera cases and bags already. But: if I were buying new, I'd probably *still* buy the IQ3-100 because (a) I'd get a free lens, which, as explained above, vastly decreases the actual price delta; (b) of the missing features, the ones *for me* that would be worth the additional cost would be power sharing (incredibly useful) and the 5 year warranty/"uptime guarantee." Those two features alone, over time, would be worth the additional marginal cost to me once you discount the price of the lens. And maybe the wifi: I can envision scenarios where the camera's position is such that looking through the prism or waist level or looking at the back's screen to compose is infeasible. Being able to do so on your iPhone via wifi could come in handy. (Although, having played around with the Capture Pilot app, I've noticed that you can't activate autofocus from your phone, so how the heck are you going to focus the camera when used in this manner? If you can't reach it to see through the viewfinder or on the rear screen, you also can't reach it to focus the lens.)

    For others, though, the marginal value of those additional features might be less than the value of saving the $2000-$4000 (depending on the free lens chosen with the IQ3-100) and using it for another purpose, like hiring a series of models or photo assistants or a trip to somewhere to actually take pictures with the camera. I gather that's the purpose of the IQ1-100 strategy: to allow people who value the cash difference above the feature set differences to decide where to allocate those resources.
    Last edited by Chipcarterdc; 24th September 2016 at 06:59.
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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul David View Post
    I wonder how much R&D effort went into crippling the IQ3 100? To go back to the car analogy, it's like shipping a fully equipped car and then having the dealer remove pieces to sell it for a lower price. Extra work to artificially lower price, rather than offering a better value on the original product does not produce value.

    There are new entries into MF at MUCH lower prices than P1, but the cropped frames compared to the IQ3 100 (and my IQ 180) are deal breakers for me. But it is only a matter of time before we see 40 x 54mm mirrorless bodies.

    I can't tell you how disappointed I am that PhaseOne has chosen to waste its R&D to cripple a great product instead of delivering a 100MP mirrorless body at a fair price.

    Paul
    What's worse is that they kept using the very old design of the IQ180 to house the 100MP chip, and it appears that the cooling is not up to the task to handle the heat generated by the 100MP chip during long exposure (aka red shadow issue). Seriously they need to redesign the back - instead of re-using the 5 year old design!

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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    Quote Originally Posted by Chipcarterdc View Post
    Let's say you want the 40-80 zoom, which costs around $9000 list price: that means that the difference between buying the IQ3-100 versus the IQ1-100 is "only" about $2000, not $11,000. If you think the missing features on the IQ1-100 are that important, then it's probably worth getting the IQ3-100 and getting those extra features for the extra $2000.
    Your overall point here is definitely correct. However:
    - the IQ1 100mp kit comes with an 80LS Blue Ring
    - the IQ3 100mp kit kit comes with your choice of prime lens.

    As discussed on our IQ3 Kit Update article and shown in the IQ3 100mp product page.

    So the difference is still less than it seems, but more than you've described here.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    Me thinks it be better had Phase One released the IQ1 and IQ3 100MP models at the same time.

    It would have been more similar to the choices made between the Classic and Value-Added options. Is the IQ1 like the "Credo" of old? Not as fully featured, lower price-point, and released later than the fully featured flag-ship P1 model....

    Sound familiar? (I do like the interface of the P1 model better than the Credo, so that's a plus...)

    Ken

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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    It just feels like a strange product. I'm not even sure the comparison with Leaf is fair. Just taking ownership for example: with a Leaf Credo 100 you would have that warm, fuzzy feeling of owning Leaf’s highest-end digital back. With an IQ1-100 you’ve got the cold, clammy feeling of owning the IQ3-100’s halfwit cousin.

    What sort of company thinks this is a good idea ?

    The one that promotes itself as, 'The world's leader in digital medium format photography' ?

    Or the one that only rents a corner of someone else’s booth at Photokina ?

    Oh, wait a second.

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    Re: Photokina Phase One Announcements: IQ1 100mp, Lenses, IQ3 Kit Updates, C1 v9.3

    I've been shooting with an IQ180 for a couple years and was hesitant to upgrading to the IQ3100 for the simple reason there was overkill for me; things I just didn't need nor want. I no longer use a tech camera so the idea of HDMI just didn't appeal. Likewise the idea of WIFI; if I want to tether I can use my Surface and save power, however since leaving the tech camera I've also had no need to tether. Looking at (my opinion) "nice to have" items such as more camera controls, I'm very satisfied with what I have now. Auto ISO? The only time I ever use it is with my converted A7r and never with any other camera. USB charging from, again while I might consider it a "nice to have" I really don't need it. Likewise power sharing since I have never as yet run into a situation where I actually needed it; then again I also currently don't have HDMI or WIFI. And then we come to the other "items" of difference...

    Warranty. I'm on my 5th Phase back (6th if I include the Kodak) and only one back has been new (P30+). In all the backs and all the conditions I've used them I've only had one issue (I'll back to that in a bit). There's an old saying of "no free lunch" and that is what I see with the "free lens of choice" with the IQ3100. Likewise, I don't need any more cases, card readers, (small) CF cards, calibration plates or batteries (I currently have 9).

    Not entirely certain of the price difference between the IQ3100 and 1100 however I think it's close to $10,000. That's $10,000 for additional "stuff" I don't need. Coming back to the one issue I've had; the back had to be sent back to the mothership where it was completely torn apart and every circuit board replaced/upgraded and returned better than new. The cost was $3,000 which in my opinion was money well spent for the service performed. I see the saving of $7,000 as a trip to Japan to shoot snow monkeys, or a trip to Alaska to shoot north lights, or - hell you get the idea.


    So in the end I like the IQ1100 well enough to have one on order. It works for me. I'm not pissed off that Phase is using an "older" box to stuff the sensor in; nor am I disappointed that they didn't introduce a mirrorless camera as I never expected them to in the first place. I am however pleased/surprised to hear about the IQ1100 as I am ready to upgrade and will be able to save money on things I just don't need/want.

    The IQ1100 suits my needs/wants. If it doesn't fit yours so be it. Two things I learned in life is that there's no free lunch and one-size doesn't fit everyone.
    Don Libby
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