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X1D, a nice interview but also no AF with HC-lenses...

ErikKaffehr

Well-known member
Hi,

DPReview has a very nice interview Hasselblad's manager of technology Ove Bengtsson. Highly recommended.

https://www.dpreview.com/interviews/2280876023/hasselblad-interview-at-photokina-2016

In that interview he mentions that the planned adapter for HC-lenses does not have AF. Although AF may be added later. This may not be a great surprise, but no great news for X1D users shooting action.

Other than that the discussion is very interesting. He aldo discussing the Lunar stuff, nice to hear soe info from the inside.

He also discusses the GFX briefly and says that the X1D and the GFX are different, with the X1D being smaller and the GFX having more features.

Body construction and passive cooling is also mentioned.

Best regards
Erik
 

CSP

New member
"But if you want something that feels good, maybe this is the one you buy. "

sure this is a very convincing argument for the x1d although i have thought that a well developed af algorithm like the one fuji uses is important for a mirrorless but seems i´m wrong.....
 

tcdeveau

Well-known member
"But if you want something that feels good, maybe this is the one you buy. "

sure this is a very convincing argument for the x1d although i have thought that a well developed af algorithm like the one fuji uses is important for a mirrorless but seems i´m wrong.....
AF speed/accuracy was perfectly sufficient on the pre-production X1D I played with but I'm not sure it's really possible to compare the two AF systems at this point as AF on both the X1D and GFX are still not finalized. I assume the GFX will inherit some of the same AF characteristics of the X line, but it's still limited by the 50mp MF sensor to a degree (ie no PDAF). Is the GFX AF single point at the moment or does it have multiple points? I couldn't find info in any of the initial announcements. I did not read much about the AF system of the GFX in the announcemets and assumed it was still under development. Regardless, AF performance on either system can be improved with future firmware upgrades and I expect firmware updates for both the X1D and GFX after launch will improve respective AF performance, as Fuji has done many times with their X line. Maybe I'm wrong.

Interesting read, thanks for sharing Erik. For me, I think Ove was right, and I see them as two different rather than competing systems. I do not like shooting with my X-T1 and it has frustrated me on many occassions...too many buttons, menu system clunky, etc. Several times settings have been inadvertently changed, requiring me to head to the camera manual to figure out what was going on and change the settings back. I like the simplistic experience of shooting with the Hasselblad that I just sold for the X1D. Having played with a pre-production X1D, the X1D interface/grip/button layout/etc is very elegant and feels leagues better to me than what I'm used to with Fuji and Sony mirrorless. The GFX seems like a clunky computer that takes pictures in comparison. Sure the GFX will be very capable and will produce great images, but shooting with Fuji currently doesn't inspire to me to take pics as the Hasselblad did and I don't get as much joy out of it. Ordering the X1D was a very subjective choice for me and I did so along the lines of what Ove suggests. I'm also not trying to knock the GFX, it's just not the camera for me. In addition to being cheaper than the X1D, I do think the GFX has a very well thought out lens lineup and has more features than the X1D, and if I were still shooting weddings/engagements/etc and making money off of those, I probably would've gone with the GFX instead. I bet that 110mm f2 will be killer for portaits.

Bummer about no AF at the moment with the adapter, althought I'm actually pretty happy about it. AF is currently not functioning properly on my 35-90mm and I've been meaning to send it in for service (I've been dreading the repair bill). If AF won't work at the moment with the XH adapter anyway, then I can hold off on the repair for now :)

It also seems from that interview if I read correctly, if they develop and make the V1D, they're thinking of a price tag of 12000 to 15000 euro which is also interesting.
-Todd
 

CSP

New member
For me, I think Ove was right, and I see them as two different rather than competing systems.
different systems ? sorry this is ridiculous, the fact is that on the mirrorless technology side hasselblad has a disadvantage and no experience. when "The GFX seems like a clunky computer that takes pictures " than what is the x1d ? a piece of german replica industrial design missing almost every feature you would expect from a modern mirrorless camera but fits perfext to a colllection of murano glass on a stylish book self ?
 
different systems ? sorry this is ridiculous, the fact is that on the mirrorless technology side hasselblad has a disadvantage and no experience. when "The GFX seems like a clunky computer that takes pictures " than what is the x1d ? a piece of german replica industrial design missing almost every feature you would expect from a modern mirrorless camera but fits perfext to a colllection of murano glass on a stylish book self ?
Since you clearly don't like the X1D maybe you could focus your attention on the numerous threads on the Internet which are not related to the X1D?
 

BANKER1

Member
different systems ? sorry this is ridiculous, the fact is that on the mirrorless technology side hasselblad has a disadvantage and no experience. when "The GFX seems like a clunky computer that takes pictures " than what is the x1d ? a piece of german replica industrial design missing almost every feature you would expect from a modern mirrorless camera but fits perfext to a colllection of murano glass on a stylish book self ?
For you and all the others who seem to be in love with the Fuji GFX, please look at this YouTube video and tell me this is not a huge, clunky mess of a camera. I was shocked when I saw the sheer size and mass of the camera. I'd rather carry my H4D60 than that thing. I haven't pulled the trigger on the X1D, but the Fuji is not a contender for me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeVGs_2XoSw

Greg
 

rmueller

Well-known member
Totally agree, OMG I haven't seen the back of the GFX, why is it so bulky? I'm sorry to say, but then i prefer the
ergonomics of my H3D.

Ralf.

For you and all the others who seem to be in love with the Fuji GFX, please look at this YouTube video and tell me this is not a huge, clunky mess of a camera. I was shocked when I saw the sheer size and mass of the camera. I'd rather carry my H4D60 than that thing. I haven't pulled the trigger on the X1D, but the Fuji is not a contender for me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeVGs_2XoSw

Greg
 
V

Vivek

Guest
It is not a "clunky mess". That would be when you attach an adapter and try to manually focus the HC lens.
 

hcubell

Well-known member
Hi,

DPReview has a very nice interview Hasselblad's manager of technology Ove Bengtsson. Highly recommended.

https://www.dpreview.com/interviews/2280876023/hasselblad-interview-at-photokina-2016

In that interview he mentions that the planned adapter for HC-lenses does not have AF. Although AF may be added later. This may not be a great surprise, but no great news for X1D users shooting action.

Other than that the discussion is very interesting. He aldo discussing the Lunar stuff, nice to hear soe info from the inside.

He also discusses the GFX briefly and says that the X1D and the GFX are different, with the X1D being smaller and the GFX having more features.

Body construction and passive cooling is also mentioned.

Best regards
Erik
Now that you won't be able to AF your vast collection of HC lenses with the X1D, I guess you won't be buying one after all.
 

miska

Member
To me the fact that HC lenses may not autofocus well with the adapter is a big deal. Of course, it may be, that with firmware updates, AF will be enabled. But the facts that it is not at the start tells me it will not work as well as native lenses. I maybe wrong, and I sure hope so.

I thought that having good AF with HC lenses (which are very large for the X1D, so not ideal) would be a nice way to start into the system. Looks like they are just a stopgap solution until more X1D lenses will become available. Which should be soon, as Hassi has repeated may times.
All in all, I'm still interested in the system, but will not be an early adopter. I want to see how things pan out. It is one gorgeous camera though :)
 

Paul2660

Well-known member
Totally agree, OMG I haven't seen the back of the GFX, why is it so bulky? I'm sorry to say, but then i prefer the
ergonomics of my H3D.

Ralf.
It's bulky due to the battery location and fact that the LCD is moveable. Fuji did this to help dissipate heat per one of the many videos on the design.

Time will tell if heat becomes a problem for either offering Hasselblad or Fuji.

Paul C
 

Christopher

Active member
I don't really care about size I care about weight. And that's nearly equal. Regarding the video funny, but if my wife holds the x1d it looks huge as well. It's just a perspective.
 

jerome_m

Member
IMO, the fact that AF does not work on HC lenses yet is not really relevant. Contrast AF is extraordinary slow on lenses designed for phase AF, so it would not be very useful anyway.
 

ErikKaffehr

Well-known member
Hi,

Something to consider is that there will be newer generation of CMOS sensors for MFD. It is a bit similar to Sony A7r, when the A7 arrived I wanted it, but it felt as old sensor technology, no on sense PDAF and no electronic first curtain on the A7r. Features my Alpa 99 had. So I skipped the A7r but I bought the A7rII. It has been a long wait...

Pretty sure that both Hasselblad and Fuji have roadmap info on coming sensors. In 2-3 years we will see a 44x33 mm sensor with PDAF and EFCS and I guess it will resolve 70-100 MP.

My understanding is that it takes something like three years to design a sensor, the 50 MP sensor has been around for a few years, so next generation may not be far away.

Best regards
Erik

IMO, the fact that AF does not work on HC lenses yet is not really relevant. Contrast AF is extraordinary slow on lenses designed for phase AF, so it would not be very useful anyway.
 

hcubell

Well-known member
I don't really care about size I care about weight. And that's nearly equal. Regarding the video funny, but if my wife holds the x1d it looks huge as well. It's just a perspective.
Good. And thousands of other potential buyers may care about BOTH size and weight, and 10%-20% less weight may be absolutely critical to them. The important point is that we all have somewhat different priorities. I have no need for 1/4000 second shutter speed. I have no interest in attaching non-legacy lenses to one of these cameras. I much prefer leaf shutter lenses because they eliminate the risk of shutter shock. I expect that the GUI and controls of the X1D will be much more enjoyable to work with. I prefer the way Europeans and Americans do these things to the way the Japanese do them. Nonetheless, I have little doubt that the GFX and the lenses will be terrific. I also think there are two aspects to the GFX that are very intriguing. One is that the viewfinder is removable so Fuji may be able to update the EVF experience over time. The other thing is that a new version of the GFX may be able to accomadate a full frame sensor and use the existing GFX lenses. Not posssible with the X1D.
 

aldo

New member
Good. And thousands of other potential buyers may care about BOTH size and weight, and 10%-20% less weight may be absolutely critical to them. The important point is that we all have somewhat different priorities. I have no need for 1/4000 second shutter speed. I have no interest in attaching non-legacy lenses to one of these cameras. I much prefer leaf shutter lenses because they eliminate the risk of shutter shock. I expect that the GUI and controls of the X1D will be much more enjoyable to work with. I prefer the way Europeans and Americans do these things to the way the Japanese do them. Nonetheless, I have little doubt that the GFX and the lenses will be terrific. I also think there are two aspects to the GFX that are very intriguing. One is that the viewfinder is removable so Fuji may be able to update the EVF experience over time. The other thing is that a new version of the GFX may be able to accomadate a full frame sensor and use the existing GFX lenses. Not posssible with the X1D.
It doesn't seem thaaat big to me. Definitely not the same as a H3/4/5/6D.

14441132_10155234870260744_8380009307339338248_n.jpg

14485086_10209035806824981_7481383927166113560_n.jpg

14520522_10209035883746904_7516194367836624834_n.jpg

Fujifilm-GFX-Vs.-Hasselblad-X1D-1.jpg

Fujifilm-GFX-Vs.-Hasselblad-X1D-2-1.jpg
 

tjv

Active member
I assume that the resolution and frame rate of the EVF in the Fuji is limited in potential by the limitations of the sensor. So while in theory they could release a bigger EVF, it won't likely be higher resolution or frame rate. I could be wrong. And of course the X1D will be limited by what's inbuilt, so no chance of improvement there.

I think they both look great. I'm more drawn to the X1D for size, weight, Leaf shutter lenses and interface, but who knows how the different cameras will play out when the rubber hits the road...
 

CSP

New member
IMO, the fact that AF does not work on HC lenses yet is not really relevant. Contrast AF is extraordinary slow on lenses designed for phase AF, so it would not be very useful anyway.
but having no focus aids either is a failure.
 

ErikKaffehr

Well-known member
Hi,

That is almost certainly not the case, as the sensor is capable of delivering full HD at 30 FPS.

The main factor is probably the availability of OLED displays, highest available resolution seems to be SXGA,

1400xRGBx1050 substantially lower than full HD (1920x1080)

http://global.epson.com/newsroom/2015/news_20151209.html

But, Full HD output does not match 44x33 aspect ratio of course and it is possible that the Sony sensor is optimised for a cropped 1920x1080 output. A major part plays the camera ASIC, that Hasseblad claims is their own development and almost certainly also Fujifilm also uses a self developed ASIC (or set of ASICs).

So, it is quite probable that better EVFs could be retrofitted to the GFX in the future.

Best regards
Erik


I assume that the resolution and frame rate of the EVF in the Fuji is limited in potential by the limitations of the sensor. So while in theory they could release a bigger EVF, it won't likely be higher resolution or frame rate. I could be wrong. And of course the X1D will be limited by what's inbuilt, so no chance of improvement there.

I think they both look great. I'm more drawn to the X1D for size, weight, Leaf shutter lenses and interface, but who knows how the different cameras will play out when the rubber hits the road...
 

ErikKaffehr

Well-known member
Hi,

Lens sizes and weights matter more than camera weights, at least if you carry more than one lens.

Best regards
Erik
Good. And thousands of other potential buyers may care about BOTH size and weight, and 10%-20% less weight may be absolutely critical to them. The important point is that we all have somewhat different priorities. I have no need for 1/4000 second shutter speed. I have no interest in attaching non-legacy lenses to one of these cameras. I much prefer leaf shutter lenses because they eliminate the risk of shutter shock. I expect that the GUI and controls of the X1D will be much more enjoyable to work with. I prefer the way Europeans and Americans do these things to the way the Japanese do them. Nonetheless, I have little doubt that the GFX and the lenses will be terrific. I also think there are two aspects to the GFX that are very intriguing. One is that the viewfinder is removable so Fuji may be able to update the EVF experience over time. The other thing is that a new version of the GFX may be able to accomadate a full frame sensor and use the existing GFX lenses. Not posssible with the X1D.
 
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