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Thread: X1D, a nice interview but also no AF with HC-lenses...

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    Senior Member ErikKaffehr's Avatar
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    X1D, a nice interview but also no AF with HC-lenses...

    Hi,

    DPReview has a very nice interview Hasselblad's manager of technology Ove Bengtsson. Highly recommended.

    https://www.dpreview.com/interviews/...photokina-2016

    In that interview he mentions that the planned adapter for HC-lenses does not have AF. Although AF may be added later. This may not be a great surprise, but no great news for X1D users shooting action.

    Other than that the discussion is very interesting. He aldo discussing the Lunar stuff, nice to hear soe info from the inside.

    He also discusses the GFX briefly and says that the X1D and the GFX are different, with the X1D being smaller and the GFX having more features.

    Body construction and passive cooling is also mentioned.

    Best regards
    Erik

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    Re: X1D, a nice interview but also no AF with HC-lenses...

    "But if you want something that feels good, maybe this is the one you buy. "

    sure this is a very convincing argument for the x1d although i have thought that a well developed af algorithm like the one fuji uses is important for a mirrorless but seems i´m wrong.....

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    Re: X1D, a nice interview but also no AF with HC-lenses...

    Quote Originally Posted by CSP View Post
    "But if you want something that feels good, maybe this is the one you buy. "

    sure this is a very convincing argument for the x1d although i have thought that a well developed af algorithm like the one fuji uses is important for a mirrorless but seems i´m wrong.....
    AF speed/accuracy was perfectly sufficient on the pre-production X1D I played with but I'm not sure it's really possible to compare the two AF systems at this point as AF on both the X1D and GFX are still not finalized. I assume the GFX will inherit some of the same AF characteristics of the X line, but it's still limited by the 50mp MF sensor to a degree (ie no PDAF). Is the GFX AF single point at the moment or does it have multiple points? I couldn't find info in any of the initial announcements. I did not read much about the AF system of the GFX in the announcemets and assumed it was still under development. Regardless, AF performance on either system can be improved with future firmware upgrades and I expect firmware updates for both the X1D and GFX after launch will improve respective AF performance, as Fuji has done many times with their X line. Maybe I'm wrong.

    Interesting read, thanks for sharing Erik. For me, I think Ove was right, and I see them as two different rather than competing systems. I do not like shooting with my X-T1 and it has frustrated me on many occassions...too many buttons, menu system clunky, etc. Several times settings have been inadvertently changed, requiring me to head to the camera manual to figure out what was going on and change the settings back. I like the simplistic experience of shooting with the Hasselblad that I just sold for the X1D. Having played with a pre-production X1D, the X1D interface/grip/button layout/etc is very elegant and feels leagues better to me than what I'm used to with Fuji and Sony mirrorless. The GFX seems like a clunky computer that takes pictures in comparison. Sure the GFX will be very capable and will produce great images, but shooting with Fuji currently doesn't inspire to me to take pics as the Hasselblad did and I don't get as much joy out of it. Ordering the X1D was a very subjective choice for me and I did so along the lines of what Ove suggests. I'm also not trying to knock the GFX, it's just not the camera for me. In addition to being cheaper than the X1D, I do think the GFX has a very well thought out lens lineup and has more features than the X1D, and if I were still shooting weddings/engagements/etc and making money off of those, I probably would've gone with the GFX instead. I bet that 110mm f2 will be killer for portaits.

    Bummer about no AF at the moment with the adapter, althought I'm actually pretty happy about it. AF is currently not functioning properly on my 35-90mm and I've been meaning to send it in for service (I've been dreading the repair bill). If AF won't work at the moment with the XH adapter anyway, then I can hold off on the repair for now

    It also seems from that interview if I read correctly, if they develop and make the V1D, they're thinking of a price tag of 12000 to 15000 euro which is also interesting.
    -Todd
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    Re: X1D, a nice interview but also no AF with HC-lenses...

    Quote Originally Posted by tcdeveau View Post
    For me, I think Ove was right, and I see them as two different rather than competing systems.
    different systems ? sorry this is ridiculous, the fact is that on the mirrorless technology side hasselblad has a disadvantage and no experience. when "The GFX seems like a clunky computer that takes pictures " than what is the x1d ? a piece of german replica industrial design missing almost every feature you would expect from a modern mirrorless camera but fits perfext to a colllection of murano glass on a stylish book self ?
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    Re: X1D, a nice interview but also no AF with HC-lenses...

    Quote Originally Posted by CSP View Post
    different systems ? sorry this is ridiculous, the fact is that on the mirrorless technology side hasselblad has a disadvantage and no experience. when "The GFX seems like a clunky computer that takes pictures " than what is the x1d ? a piece of german replica industrial design missing almost every feature you would expect from a modern mirrorless camera but fits perfext to a colllection of murano glass on a stylish book self ?
    Since you clearly don't like the X1D maybe you could focus your attention on the numerous threads on the Internet which are not related to the X1D?
    http://www.elundqvist.photo
    twitter: @erik_lundqvist
    instagram: elundqvist.photo
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    Re: X1D, a nice interview but also no AF with HC-lenses...

    Quote Originally Posted by CSP View Post
    different systems ? sorry this is ridiculous, the fact is that on the mirrorless technology side hasselblad has a disadvantage and no experience. when "The GFX seems like a clunky computer that takes pictures " than what is the x1d ? a piece of german replica industrial design missing almost every feature you would expect from a modern mirrorless camera but fits perfext to a colllection of murano glass on a stylish book self ?
    For you and all the others who seem to be in love with the Fuji GFX, please look at this YouTube video and tell me this is not a huge, clunky mess of a camera. I was shocked when I saw the sheer size and mass of the camera. I'd rather carry my H4D60 than that thing. I haven't pulled the trigger on the X1D, but the Fuji is not a contender for me.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeVGs_2XoSw

    Greg
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    Re: X1D, a nice interview but also no AF with HC-lenses...

    Totally agree, OMG I haven't seen the back of the GFX, why is it so bulky? I'm sorry to say, but then i prefer the
    ergonomics of my H3D.

    Ralf.

    Quote Originally Posted by BANKER1 View Post
    For you and all the others who seem to be in love with the Fuji GFX, please look at this YouTube video and tell me this is not a huge, clunky mess of a camera. I was shocked when I saw the sheer size and mass of the camera. I'd rather carry my H4D60 than that thing. I haven't pulled the trigger on the X1D, but the Fuji is not a contender for me.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeVGs_2XoSw

    Greg

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    Re: X1D, a nice interview but also no AF with HC-lenses...

    It is not a "clunky mess". That would be when you attach an adapter and try to manually focus the HC lens.
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    Re: X1D, a nice interview but also no AF with HC-lenses...

    Quote Originally Posted by ErikKaffehr View Post
    Hi,

    DPReview has a very nice interview Hasselblad's manager of technology Ove Bengtsson. Highly recommended.

    https://www.dpreview.com/interviews/...photokina-2016

    In that interview he mentions that the planned adapter for HC-lenses does not have AF. Although AF may be added later. This may not be a great surprise, but no great news for X1D users shooting action.

    Other than that the discussion is very interesting. He aldo discussing the Lunar stuff, nice to hear soe info from the inside.

    He also discusses the GFX briefly and says that the X1D and the GFX are different, with the X1D being smaller and the GFX having more features.

    Body construction and passive cooling is also mentioned.

    Best regards
    Erik
    Now that you won't be able to AF your vast collection of HC lenses with the X1D, I guess you won't be buying one after all.
    hcubell
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    Re: X1D, a nice interview but also no AF with HC-lenses...

    To me the fact that HC lenses may not autofocus well with the adapter is a big deal. Of course, it may be, that with firmware updates, AF will be enabled. But the facts that it is not at the start tells me it will not work as well as native lenses. I maybe wrong, and I sure hope so.

    I thought that having good AF with HC lenses (which are very large for the X1D, so not ideal) would be a nice way to start into the system. Looks like they are just a stopgap solution until more X1D lenses will become available. Which should be soon, as Hassi has repeated may times.
    All in all, I'm still interested in the system, but will not be an early adopter. I want to see how things pan out. It is one gorgeous camera though :-)
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    Re: X1D, a nice interview but also no AF with HC-lenses...

    Quote Originally Posted by rmueller View Post
    Totally agree, OMG I haven't seen the back of the GFX, why is it so bulky? I'm sorry to say, but then i prefer the
    ergonomics of my H3D.

    Ralf.
    It's bulky due to the battery location and fact that the LCD is moveable. Fuji did this to help dissipate heat per one of the many videos on the design.

    Time will tell if heat becomes a problem for either offering Hasselblad or Fuji.

    Paul C

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    Re: X1D, a nice interview but also no AF with HC-lenses...

    I don't really care about size I care about weight. And that's nearly equal. Regarding the video funny, but if my wife holds the x1d it looks huge as well. It's just a perspective.
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    Re: X1D, a nice interview but also no AF with HC-lenses...

    IMO, the fact that AF does not work on HC lenses yet is not really relevant. Contrast AF is extraordinary slow on lenses designed for phase AF, so it would not be very useful anyway.

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    Senior Member ErikKaffehr's Avatar
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    Re: X1D, a nice interview but also no AF with HC-lenses...

    Hi,

    Something to consider is that there will be newer generation of CMOS sensors for MFD. It is a bit similar to Sony A7r, when the A7 arrived I wanted it, but it felt as old sensor technology, no on sense PDAF and no electronic first curtain on the A7r. Features my Alpa 99 had. So I skipped the A7r but I bought the A7rII. It has been a long wait...

    Pretty sure that both Hasselblad and Fuji have roadmap info on coming sensors. In 2-3 years we will see a 44x33 mm sensor with PDAF and EFCS and I guess it will resolve 70-100 MP.

    My understanding is that it takes something like three years to design a sensor, the 50 MP sensor has been around for a few years, so next generation may not be far away.

    Best regards
    Erik

    Quote Originally Posted by jerome_m View Post
    IMO, the fact that AF does not work on HC lenses yet is not really relevant. Contrast AF is extraordinary slow on lenses designed for phase AF, so it would not be very useful anyway.

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    Re: X1D, a nice interview but also no AF with HC-lenses...

    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher View Post
    I don't really care about size I care about weight. And that's nearly equal. Regarding the video funny, but if my wife holds the x1d it looks huge as well. It's just a perspective.
    Good. And thousands of other potential buyers may care about BOTH size and weight, and 10%-20% less weight may be absolutely critical to them. The important point is that we all have somewhat different priorities. I have no need for 1/4000 second shutter speed. I have no interest in attaching non-legacy lenses to one of these cameras. I much prefer leaf shutter lenses because they eliminate the risk of shutter shock. I expect that the GUI and controls of the X1D will be much more enjoyable to work with. I prefer the way Europeans and Americans do these things to the way the Japanese do them. Nonetheless, I have little doubt that the GFX and the lenses will be terrific. I also think there are two aspects to the GFX that are very intriguing. One is that the viewfinder is removable so Fuji may be able to update the EVF experience over time. The other thing is that a new version of the GFX may be able to accomadate a full frame sensor and use the existing GFX lenses. Not posssible with the X1D.
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    Re: X1D, a nice interview but also no AF with HC-lenses...

    Quote Originally Posted by hcubell View Post
    Good. And thousands of other potential buyers may care about BOTH size and weight, and 10%-20% less weight may be absolutely critical to them. The important point is that we all have somewhat different priorities. I have no need for 1/4000 second shutter speed. I have no interest in attaching non-legacy lenses to one of these cameras. I much prefer leaf shutter lenses because they eliminate the risk of shutter shock. I expect that the GUI and controls of the X1D will be much more enjoyable to work with. I prefer the way Europeans and Americans do these things to the way the Japanese do them. Nonetheless, I have little doubt that the GFX and the lenses will be terrific. I also think there are two aspects to the GFX that are very intriguing. One is that the viewfinder is removable so Fuji may be able to update the EVF experience over time. The other thing is that a new version of the GFX may be able to accomadate a full frame sensor and use the existing GFX lenses. Not posssible with the X1D.
    It doesn't seem thaaat big to me. Definitely not the same as a H3/4/5/6D.

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    Re: X1D, a nice interview but also no AF with HC-lenses...

    I assume that the resolution and frame rate of the EVF in the Fuji is limited in potential by the limitations of the sensor. So while in theory they could release a bigger EVF, it won't likely be higher resolution or frame rate. I could be wrong. And of course the X1D will be limited by what's inbuilt, so no chance of improvement there.

    I think they both look great. I'm more drawn to the X1D for size, weight, Leaf shutter lenses and interface, but who knows how the different cameras will play out when the rubber hits the road...
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    Re: X1D, a nice interview but also no AF with HC-lenses...

    Quote Originally Posted by jerome_m View Post
    IMO, the fact that AF does not work on HC lenses yet is not really relevant. Contrast AF is extraordinary slow on lenses designed for phase AF, so it would not be very useful anyway.
    but having no focus aids either is a failure.

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    Re: X1D, a nice interview but also no AF with HC-lenses...

    Hi,

    That is almost certainly not the case, as the sensor is capable of delivering full HD at 30 FPS.

    The main factor is probably the availability of OLED displays, highest available resolution seems to be SXGA,

    1400xRGBx1050 substantially lower than full HD (1920x1080)

    http://global.epson.com/newsroom/201..._20151209.html

    But, Full HD output does not match 44x33 aspect ratio of course and it is possible that the Sony sensor is optimised for a cropped 1920x1080 output. A major part plays the camera ASIC, that Hasseblad claims is their own development and almost certainly also Fujifilm also uses a self developed ASIC (or set of ASICs).

    So, it is quite probable that better EVFs could be retrofitted to the GFX in the future.

    Best regards
    Erik


    Quote Originally Posted by tjv View Post
    I assume that the resolution and frame rate of the EVF in the Fuji is limited in potential by the limitations of the sensor. So while in theory they could release a bigger EVF, it won't likely be higher resolution or frame rate. I could be wrong. And of course the X1D will be limited by what's inbuilt, so no chance of improvement there.

    I think they both look great. I'm more drawn to the X1D for size, weight, Leaf shutter lenses and interface, but who knows how the different cameras will play out when the rubber hits the road...

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    Re: X1D, a nice interview but also no AF with HC-lenses...

    Hi,

    Lens sizes and weights matter more than camera weights, at least if you carry more than one lens.

    Best regards
    Erik
    Quote Originally Posted by hcubell View Post
    Good. And thousands of other potential buyers may care about BOTH size and weight, and 10%-20% less weight may be absolutely critical to them. The important point is that we all have somewhat different priorities. I have no need for 1/4000 second shutter speed. I have no interest in attaching non-legacy lenses to one of these cameras. I much prefer leaf shutter lenses because they eliminate the risk of shutter shock. I expect that the GUI and controls of the X1D will be much more enjoyable to work with. I prefer the way Europeans and Americans do these things to the way the Japanese do them. Nonetheless, I have little doubt that the GFX and the lenses will be terrific. I also think there are two aspects to the GFX that are very intriguing. One is that the viewfinder is removable so Fuji may be able to update the EVF experience over time. The other thing is that a new version of the GFX may be able to accomadate a full frame sensor and use the existing GFX lenses. Not posssible with the X1D.

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    Re: X1D, a nice interview but also no AF with HC-lenses...

    Quote Originally Posted by ErikKaffehr View Post
    Hi,

    That is almost certainly not the case, as the sensor is capable of delivering full HD at 30 FPS.

    The main factor is probably the availability of OLED displays, highest available resolution seems to be SXGA,

    Best regards
    Erik
    Not only that it HAS to do a lot with refresh rate. For me that I like the Leica SL so much not only for the resolution but its fast! A lot faster then most other EVFs. 30fps is just way to slow and feels just digital.
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    Re: X1D, a nice interview but also no AF with HC-lenses...

    Quote Originally Posted by ErikKaffehr View Post
    Hi,

    Lens sizes and weights matter more than camera weights, at least if you carry more than one lens.

    Best regards
    Erik
    this whole size and weight discussion is over exaggerated and says nothing about usability which is far more important.

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    Re: X1D, a nice interview but also no AF with HC-lenses...

    in this interview mr Ove Bengtsson also claims "They use the same sensor, so they’ll probably come pretty close in terms of image quality but maybe our quality will be a bit better " haha.. first this seems not to be true but more interesting fuji operates in the bayern colorant business http://www.fujifilmusa.com/products/...aic/index.html which likely gives them a kind of advantage when it comes to design and improve image sensors color response but time will tell.

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    Re: X1D, a nice interview but also no AF with HC-lenses...

    Quote Originally Posted by CSP View Post
    in this interview mr Ove Bengtsson also claims "They use the same sensor, so they’ll probably come pretty close in terms of image quality but maybe our quality will be a bit better "
    It depends on the hands that craft the jewels. It is possible that they apply a special pixie dust.

    (Just ignore Fuji saying that it is a new design sensor with offset microlenses.)
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    Re: X1D, a nice interview but also no AF with HC-lenses...

    Quote Originally Posted by ErikKaffehr View Post
    Hi,

    Lens sizes and weights matter more than camera weights, at least if you carry more than one lens.

    Best regards
    Erik
    What motivates you and CSP to spend so much time trying to convince photographers who are interested in the X1D that it is a flawed product? It's a mystery (and not a very interesting one). There are MANY cameras out there that I have no interest in, but I could not imagine hanging out in a forum and breathlessly announcing every problem with one of those cameras. Just look at the title of this thread. Moreover, it creates a poisonous atmosphere here that drives away photographers that provide valuable input. That happened with Nick T. It also happened with BCooter over at LuLa. You were involved in both situations.
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    Re: X1D, a nice interview but also no AF with HC-lenses...

    Hi Hcubell,

    Would you consider acting as a grown up?

    All products ever produced have flaws.

    Regarding the Hasselblad X1D, I find it a very interesting product with a great prospect for the future, but I see it more as a first version of an ongoing series.

    Sharing an interview with the director of technology of Hasselblad is not a great thing. In the interview he states that the adapter for the HC-lenses is manual focus, that has not been discussed before, so it is important info if you plan on using HC lenses.

    I have been shooting mirror less for 3-4 years, with probably the same kind of EVF the Hasselblad uses, so I know a few things about manual focusing on EVFs.

    Making the point that lens weights matters more than camera body weights is nothing hostile to Hasselblad. It is simply a fact that camera body makes up a very small part of the weight of the system, if you use more than a single lens. I carry something like 15 kg of gear, does it matter if the camera body weighs 200 g more or less.

    It is hard to find a full size camera bag that weights below 2 kg. So you add up what you need and +/-200 g may not matter a lot, or it does, depending on the equipment you carry. It is simple as that.

    One issue with the X1D is that it was introduced without a clearly defined function set. Personally, I do consider a couple of dozens CDAF points a normal part of the EVF function set. Same applies to magnified LV.

    I would also add that I am a bit allergic to marketing hyperboles. I don't particularly appreciate "Hand made in Sweden", especially on a camera that is 90% electronic. Don't forget, the lenses are made in Japan and the Sensor is made in Japan. It may be a nice body milled from a single peace of aluminium in Sweden but the body is the part that has less influence on image quality.

    Just to say, BCooter is still posting on LR. I still think we have some good info from Nick T., but if Nick acts as an info channel for Hasselblad he may need to raealize that not everybody shares his opinon.

    Best regards
    Erik



    Quote Originally Posted by hcubell View Post
    What motivates you and CSP to spend so much time trying to convince photographers who are interested in the X1D that it is a flawed product? It's a mystery (and not a very interesting one). There are MANY cameras out there that I have no interest in, but I could not imagine hanging out in a forum and breathlessly announcing every problem with one of those cameras. Just look at the title of this thread. Moreover, it creates a poisonous atmosphere here that drives away photographers that provide valuable input. That happened with Nick T. It also happened with BCooter over at LuLa. You were involved in both situations.

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    Re: X1D, a nice interview but also no AF with HC-lenses...

    Quote Originally Posted by ErikKaffehr View Post
    Hi Hcubell,

    Would you consider acting as a grown up?

    All products ever produced have flaws.

    Regarding the Hasselblad X1D, I find it a very interesting product with a great prospect for the future, but I see it more as a first version of an ongoing series.

    Sharing an interview with the director of technology of Hasselblad is not a great thing. In the interview he states that the adapter for the HC-lenses is manual focus, that has not been discussed before, so it is important info if you plan on using HC lenses.

    I have been shooting mirror less for 3-4 years, with probably the same kind of EVF the Hasselblad uses, so I know a few things about manual focusing on EVFs.

    Making the point that lens weights matters more than camera body weights is nothing hostile to Hasselblad. It is simply a fact that camera body makes up a very small part of the weight of the system, if you use more than a single lens. I carry something like 15 kg of gear, does it matter if the camera body weighs 200 g more or less.

    It is hard to find a full size camera bag that weights below 2 kg. So you add up what you need and +/-200 g may not matter a lot, or it does, depending on the equipment you carry. It is simple as that.

    One issue with the X1D is that it was introduced without a clearly defined function set. Personally, I do consider a couple of dozens CDAF points a normal part of the EVF function set. Same applies to magnified LV.

    I would also add that I am a bit allergic to marketing hyperboles. I don't particularly appreciate "Hand made in Sweden", especially on a camera that is 90% electronic. Don't forget, the lenses are made in Japan and the Sensor is made in Japan. It may be a nice body milled from a single peace of aluminium in Sweden but the body is the part that has less influence on image quality.

    Just to say, BCooter is still posting on LR. I still think we have some good info from Nick T., but if Nick acts as an info channel for Hasselblad he may need to raealize that not everybody shares his opinon.

    Best regards
    Erik
    You really need to move on. The Get DPI Forums have had a very constructive and respectful tone over the years. Signing your posts "Best Regards" does not fool anyone as to your agenda about the X1D. Perhaps you or CSP can start a Facebook Group or a new, specific thread entitled "Erik and His Friends Who Hate the X1D, Think Nobody Should Buy It, but Still Want to Monopolize the Conversation About It."
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    Re: X1D, a nice interview but also no AF with HC-lenses...

    Hi Hcubell,

    You may sort of realize that not everyone of the planet shares your opinion.

    Just to say, I don't hate X1D. Just have a different perspective than yours. I am very glad Hasselblad made the bold step to produce an mirrorless system. News from Hasselblad have not been very good the last few years, it seem that there had been some serious doubts about Hasselblad here in Sweden for some time, but it seems that the new management refocuses the company on essentials.

    I am a firm believer that the future lies with mirror less systems.

    If some product is introduced, I think it is quiten nature to ask the question "What does it bring me", for me I don't feel there is much benefit. Indeed, I am leaving MFD as I can see now.

    It is quite interesting that Fuji also introduced an EVF camera based on the same sensor. The Fuji as presented is still a prototype.

    Both cameras expand the MFD market and both are offered at slightly above high end 24x36 pricing. Lenses are also priced at high end 24x36 levels.

    Than you may ask what benefits 33x44 MFD biring over 24x36? At least the X1D has small lenses. With DSLRS high performance often pairs with large aperture. So, portability may be an advantage. Again, depending on needs.

    I shoot everything from 16mm to 400mm, so the X1D cannot replace my 24x36 equipment. Indeed, it has been my experience that 24x36. With my admittedly old Hasselblad V and P45+ I found that it is the Hassy that is left behind. So MFD doesn't work for me.

    You may be aware that I am using the Sony A7rII with some Canon and Contax lenses, mainly because they allow for tilt and shift work. I have never stated that the A7rII is a great camera, but I state it meets my needs. But I used to say that there is little reason Canon shooters should switch to Sony, except they need to do T&S work with Canon's zoom lenses or need the DR of the Sony sensors, and Canon improves in that area.

    I am quite open about issues with the Sony, like lens system, battery life and user interface. On the other hand it is a tool, and you need to learn to make best use of it. Does it turn me into a Sony hater?

    Best regards
    Erik


    Quote Originally Posted by hcubell View Post
    You really need to move on. The Get DPI Forums have had a very constructive and respectful tone over the years. Signing your posts "Best Regards" does not fool anyone as to your agenda about the X1D. Perhaps you or CSP can start a Facebook Group or a new, specific thread entitled "Erik and His Friends Who Hate the X1D, Think Nobody Should Buy It, but Still Want to Monopolize the Conversation About It."

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    Re: X1D, a nice interview but also no AF with HC-lenses...

    Quote Originally Posted by CSP View Post
    different systems ? sorry this is ridiculous, the fact is that on the mirrorless technology side hasselblad has a disadvantage and no experience. when "The GFX seems like a clunky computer that takes pictures " than what is the x1d ? a piece of german replica industrial design missing almost every feature you would expect from a modern mirrorless camera but fits perfext to a colllection of murano glass on a stylish book self ?
    Hmm... The OP comment you quoted started with "To me..."

    In other words we are all entitled to our own opinions, right? For me, so far, I agree with him. I shoot Phase One, Olympus, Sony, Nikon, and have shot far too many cameras to be good for anyone, so I think I have a good grasp on what features I might expect - and the relief of the X1D is the unity and purity of the proposition: sometimes, for some of us, less is more: and that can go for features too...
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    Re: X1D, a nice interview but also no AF with HC-lenses...

    This is pretty shocking. I was pretty taken aback to read that the adapter wouldn't have AF when it was released and that it only may be possible. This was never mentioned before and is a pretty big detail to be left out.
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    Re: X1D, a nice interview but also no AF with HC-lenses...

    Quote Originally Posted by JoshMerwin View Post
    This is pretty shocking. I was pretty taken aback to read that the adapter wouldn't have AF when it was released and that it only may be possible. This was never mentioned before and is a pretty big detail to be left out.
    I have to agree and it does make me wonder why not now.
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    Re: X1D, a nice interview but also no AF with HC-lenses...

    Quote Originally Posted by ErikKaffehr View Post
    Hi Hcubell,

    You may sort of realize that not everyone of the planet shares your opinion.

    Erik
    That's quite funny coming from you Erik

    I like your name btw.

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    Re: X1D, a nice interview but also no AF with HC-lenses...

    Quote Originally Posted by hcubell View Post
    You really need to move on. The Get DPI Forums have had a very constructive and respectful tone over the years. Signing your posts "Best Regards" does not fool anyone as to your agenda about the X1D. Perhaps you or CSP can start a Facebook Group or a new, specific thread entitled "Erik and His Friends Who Hate the X1D, Think Nobody Should Buy It, but Still Want to Monopolize the Conversation About It."

    you like the x1d fine, i only like some aspects but you think i´m not allowed to post my view on this camera ? if you need this warm feeling to feel right and home just go to a hasselblad cheering groupe, nick-t runs one. but maybe your reaction comes from doubts and you are not totally confident that you are on the right side so you don´t want to here things what could place doubts ?

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    Re: X1D, a nice interview but also no AF with HC-lenses...

    Hi Guy,

    I would urge to read the interview and not my interpretation with it. My interpretation was anyway that AF is not possible with HC lenses at this stage.

    To explain a bit, I have read an interview with the CEO of Sigma and he stated that CDAF needs a different focusing mechanism from PDAF. PDAF estimates the needed focusing distance and turns the focusing ring to that distance. With CDAF it is different, CDAF simply measures contrast and change focusing distance a bit to try again, it oscillates into proper focus. To that focus adjustment needs to be very fast, so most CDAF system don't use helicoid but linear stepper, linear USM or voice coils.

    It is possible to use helicoidal focus with CDAF but it tends to be painfully slow. That is part of the reason the A7r was not so good with AF. The A7rII got on sensor phase detection and it is much faster, but it still works best with purpose built lenses.

    As lenses built for CDAF do not have helicoids for focusing, it is quite natural that they focus by wire.

    DPReview published another interesting interview with Ove Bengtsson:
    https://www.dpreview.com/interviews/...r-ove-bengtson

    This part may deserve a notice:
    "As mirrorless cameras are so much easier to make and offer so much more flexibility I wonder if mirrorless is the future for Hasselblad. 'Yes, it probably is, but not for a while. Mirrorless systems can be smaller and lighter, and because they have no internal movement they are more durable and they create less vibration so there is less to disturb image quality. Electronic viewfinders will need to get better though and the AF systems will need to improve to catch up with phase detection systems.'"

    This sort of indicates a great future for mirror less MFD, but also indicates some areas that need to improve to get there. No doubt, it will happen but also no doubt it will take some time.

    For some reason, Sony ignored PDAF when developing the 44x33 mm sensor. Not very obvious why, as both the A77 and A99 had PDAF on sensor.

    My guess is that we are going to see a new generation of MFD sensors in a few years or possibly pretty soon, with on sensor PDAF. It is a pity the technology was not there for the X1D and the GFX. But, there will be an X2D and a GFX2 and it will have PDAF and say 70-100 MP. It is reasonable to expect that 44x33 sensors share base technology with 24x36 and 24x36 has functional PDAF now and around 42 MP. The 44x33 sensors have 70% larger size and upscaling a 42 MP sensor to 44x33 would yield around 70 MP.

    Best regards
    Erik






    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    I have to agree and it does make me wonder why not now.

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    Re: X1D, a nice interview but also no AF with HC-lenses...

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    Hmm... The OP comment you quoted started with "To me..."

    In other words we are all entitled to our own opinions, right? For me, so far, I agree with him. I shoot Phase One, Olympus, Sony, Nikon, and have shot far too many cameras to be good for anyone, so I think I have a good grasp on what features I might expect - and the relief of the X1D is the unity and purity of the proposition: sometimes, for some of us, less is more: and that can go for features too...

    sure, but i need cameras most of the time to get a job done and unity and purity is not high on my priority list but usability is even when it comes in an ugly package....

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    Re: X1D, a nice interview but also no AF with HC-lenses...

    Hi Erik,

    I sort of have an opinion and I may argue for it. Also, I may say that I have been seriously involved with photography since 1970, or so, and have been using both 24x36 and MF both film and digital.

    And yes, I am quite a bit interested in technology and I am a strong believer in science and common sense.

    Best regards
    Erik

    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Lundqvist View Post
    That's quite funny coming from you Erik

    I like your name btw.

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    Re: X1D, a nice interview but also no AF with HC-lenses...

    Quote Originally Posted by hcubell View Post
    What motivates you and CSP to spend so much time trying to convince photographers who are interested in the X1D that it is a flawed product? It's a mystery (and not a very interesting one). There are MANY cameras out there that I have no interest in, but I could not imagine hanging out in a forum and breathlessly announcing every problem with one of those cameras. Just look at the title of this thread.
    The subject of this thread is really interesting actually, and to many it seems.

    As someone who doesn't post much, if at all, but reads an awful lot here, I would like to take the time to say I've found Erik's posts to be earnest and informative. He offers a fairly complete perspective of multiple systems' strengths and weaknesses, and although I don't go into as much detail in my own analysis as he does, many people spending this amount of money on a system should and do consider these things. He has praised features of the X1D, the Sonys, and many other cameras, while logically understanding that all of them have shortcomings. He's also posted links to information, videos, and discussions that others have neglected to. This has proven much more interesting to me than many side discussions or harassment of differing viewpoints.


    Quote Originally Posted by hcubell View Post
    Moreover, it creates a poisonous atmosphere here that drives away photographers that provide valuable input. That happened with Nick T. It also happened with BCooter over at LuLa. You were involved in both situations
    I'm not sure that's fair. From Erik, I see valid points and appropriately logical defense from attacks. I did not find any of these posts to be helpful or in the spirit of an open forum, however:

    Quote Originally Posted by hcubell
    Now that you won't be able to AF your vast collection of HC lenses with the X1D, I guess you won't be buying one after all.
    Quote Originally Posted by hcubell
    You and the science experiment/internet information regurgitator guy need to get over it.
    Quote Originally Posted by hcubell
    You also don't issue spreadsheets announcing all of the reasons why a newly released camera that you were never going to buy doesn't meet your needs.


    On a related note, Ming Thein posted a summary here of Photokina discussing in part the implications of increasing parity in image quality among cameras today: "I really don’t see anything fundamentally game changing that might make me break out the wallet and offer significantly better image quality." There's more discussion in the comments too. Of course, he already shoots an H5D, so he's in a different camp than I am. But, I think Erik's posts generally reflect similar views.

    I have always assumed that I'd be able to value the medium format experience and final image from 35mm, but with the latest/next 35mm sensors, is there really enough of a difference? What is the actual difference? Are there known or hidden compromises? Are the manufacturers selling a tool worth its cost, or promises and emotions? Might the A7rIII/A9 give us the same quality in an even smaller, lighter, and less expensive form? Should we wait for version 2?

    These are important questions to me, and I hope they can continue be discussed here openly.
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    Re: X1D, a nice interview but also no AF with HC-lenses...

    Quote Originally Posted by tbullock View Post
    The subject of this thread is really interesting actually, and to many it seems.

    As someone who doesn't post much, if at all, but reads an awful lot here, I would like to take the time to say I've found Erik's posts to be earnest and informative. He offers a fairly complete perspective of multiple systems' strengths and weaknesses, and although I don't go into as much detail in my own analysis as he does, many people spending this amount of money on a system should and do consider these things. He has praised features of the X1D, the Sonys, and many other cameras, while logically understanding that all of them have shortcomings. He's also posted links to information, videos, and discussions that others have neglected to. This has proven much more interesting to me than many side discussions or harassment of differing viewpoints.



    I'm not sure that's fair. From Erik, I see valid points and appropriately logical defense from attacks. I did not find any of these posts to be helpful or in the spirit of an open forum, however:






    On a related note, Ming Thein posted a summary here of Photokina discussing in part the implications of increasing parity in image quality among cameras today: "I really don’t see anything fundamentally game changing that might make me break out the wallet and offer significantly better image quality." There's more discussion in the comments too. Of course, he already shoots an H5D, so he's in a different camp than I am. But, I think Erik's posts generally reflect similar views.

    I have always assumed that I'd be able to value the medium format experience and final image from 35mm, but with the latest/next 35mm sensors, is there really enough of a difference? What is the actual difference? Are there known or hidden compromises? Are the manufacturers selling a tool worth its cost, or promises and emotions? Might the A7rIII/A9 give us the same quality in an even smaller, lighter, and less expensive form? Should we wait for version 2?

    These are important questions to me, and I hope they can continue be discussed here openly.

    And they will. Question should always be asked and answered in the most friendly and informative way with a neutral balance even if you really favor one brand. With that said let's get back to normal programming without any personal attacks. That's moderators jobs to deal with. Honestly I'm not finding any question or comment out of bounds.

    Honestly these are both very interesting systems we need to embrace that regardless if your choice. I can see buying either way based on what we know today. Heck if I had it my I would like to blend the two together in a way.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: X1D, a nice interview but also no AF with HC-lenses...

    Quote Originally Posted by hcubell View Post
    What motivates you and CSP to spend so much time trying to convince photographers who are interested in the X1D that it is a flawed product? It's a mystery (and not a very interesting one). There are MANY cameras out there that I have no interest in, but I could not imagine hanging out in a forum and breathlessly announcing every problem with one of those cameras. Just look at the title of this thread. Moreover, it creates a poisonous atmosphere here that drives away photographers that provide valuable input. That happened with Nick T. It also happened with BCooter over at LuLa. You were involved in both situations.
    A true mystery of the internet which I'm pretty sure I'll never understand. I don't post very often but I've come to enjoy the informative, articulate and, mostly, civil discussions on getdpi for some time. But it gets old quick when conversations become dominated by folks who are obviously never going to buy the camera they are so adamant to post about. I'm intrigued by the X1D because it meets many, but not all, of my needs and might add something to my workflow and my love of photography. So for me constructive posting isn't constantly rehashing the faults of a camera or system, it's finding the strengths and the workarounds that would help me decide if it makes sense for me. Because honestly, once you've worked your way through a few different systems, the faults kind of jump out at you.
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    Re: X1D, a nice interview but also no AF with HC-lenses...

    Very true some things jump right at you as maybe a issue. .been through many systems so I go in neutral in thought and figure it out. It's just gotta make sense
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: X1D, a nice interview but also no AF with HC-lenses...

    The final arbiter in the case of the Hasselblad X1D and the Fujifilm GFX 50S will not be Eric or me or anyone else on this forum. It will be the public acceptance of the cameras. We will see how many cameras are sold by each manufacturer, not only pre-orders already received by Hasselblad, but the long term acceptance of both cameras we will see in a year or two. If Fuji sells substantially more cameras than Hasselblad by then, I will be happy to say I was wrong, even though in my opinion, the GFX will still be a clunky frankencamera. But, if it is a better tool, I can live with that.

    What I would really rather see here is an acceptance of each other's point of view and appreciation of it. My father-in-law thought that if you didn't like what he liked, there was something wrong with you. I once told him, "They make ice cream in vanilla, chocolate, and strawberry; heck, Baskin Robbins makes 31 different flavors." I kind of saw a light bulb go on over his head. Thankfully he was smart enough to understand what I was trying to communicate to him. How nice would it be to have 31 MFD mirrorless cameras from which to choose. If you like the Fuji, so be it. Just because I like the Hasselblad doesn't make me any less of a person or photographer than anyone else. And, after time passes, I may even change my mind. I left Lula long ago because of the poisonous rhetoric found there. If I have to leave this forum, I guess I will have to simply search the internet for information and education.

    Greg
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    Re: X1D, a nice interview but also no AF with HC-lenses...

    Quote Originally Posted by BANKER1 View Post
    The final arbiter in the case of the Hasselblad X1D and the Fujifilm GFX 50S will not be Eric or me or anyone else on this forum. It will be the public acceptance of the cameras. We will see how many cameras are sold by each manufacturer, not only pre-orders already received by Hasselblad, but the long term acceptance of both cameras we will see in a year or two. If Fuji sells substantially more cameras than Hasselblad by then, I will be happy to say I was wrong, even though in my opinion, the GFX will still be a clunky frankencamera. But, if it is a better tool, I can live with that.

    What I would really rather see here is an acceptance of each other's point of view and appreciation of it. My father-in-law thought that if you didn't like what he liked, there was something wrong with you. I once told him, "They make ice cream in vanilla, chocolate, and strawberry; heck, Baskin Robbins makes 31 different flavors." I kind of saw a light bulb go on over his head. Thankfully he was smart enough to understand what I was trying to communicate to him. How nice would it be to have 31 MFD mirrorless cameras from which to choose. If you like the Fuji, so be it. Just because I like the Hasselblad doesn't make me any less of a person or photographer than anyone else. And, after time passes, I may even change my mind. I left Lula long ago because of the poisonous rhetoric found there. If I have to leave this forum, I guess I will have to simply search the internet for information and education.

    Greg
    This is so true. The X1D and the Fuji are potentially both excellent choices for many photographers. If one or the other is not for you, fine, but the incessant diatribe from some here identifying what THEY feel are flaws in the X1D is just not constructive. They should respect that others have different needs/priorities from theirs and move on. Not for one minute would I question someone else's opinion about what's best for them. My opinion is just mine. I have no need to engage in a polemic with others about their opinions. It's called respect.I am secure in evaluating my needs.
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    Re: X1D, a nice interview but also no AF with HC-lenses...

    Quote Originally Posted by BANKER1 View Post
    The final arbiter in the case of the Hasselblad X1D and the Fujifilm GFX 50S will not be Eric or me or anyone else on this forum. It will be the public acceptance of the cameras. We will see how many cameras are sold by each manufacturer, not only pre-orders already received by Hasselblad, but the long term acceptance of both cameras we will see in a year or two. If Fuji sells substantially more cameras than Hasselblad by then, I will be happy to say I was wrong, even though in my opinion, the GFX will still be a clunky frankencamera. But, if it is a better tool, I can live with that.

    What I would really rather see here is an acceptance of each other's point of view and appreciation of it. My father-in-law thought that if you didn't like what he liked, there was something wrong with you. I once told him, "They make ice cream in vanilla, chocolate, and strawberry; heck, Baskin Robbins makes 31 different flavors." I kind of saw a light bulb go on over his head. Thankfully he was smart enough to understand what I was trying to communicate to him. How nice would it be to have 31 MFD mirrorless cameras from which to choose. If you like the Fuji, so be it. Just because I like the Hasselblad doesn't make me any less of a person or photographer than anyone else. And, after time passes, I may even change my mind. I left Lula long ago because of the poisonous rhetoric found there. If I have to leave this forum, I guess I will have to simply search the internet for information and education.

    Greg
    Ill take that a step further. I hope they both sell a truck load. Thats good for all of us. I have zero brand loyalty but i got a serious healthy dose of whats good for the industry and us. We WANT product that works for us. I see positives in both systems and i see some gaps as well. We just need more data that describes whats under the menu hoods and what feature sets we will get. Even though Hassy is starting to ship i still feel like I don't know whats under the hood. Heck i would love to see a final version of the menus for instance.
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    Re: X1D, a nice interview but also no AF with HC-lenses...

    Quote Originally Posted by jerome_m View Post
    IMO, the fact that AF does not work on HC lenses yet is not really relevant. Contrast AF is extraordinary slow on lenses designed for phase AF, so it would not be very useful anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by CSP View Post
    but having no focus aids either is a failure.
    That's a matter of opinion.

    In the half hour or so I had to play with the original X1D demo units at a local demonstration, I didn't know how to engage magnification or whether peaking was available. I flipped the camera to manual focus with both 45 and 90 mm lenses. I had no trouble whatsoever achieving absolutely perfect critical focus with either lens.

    I would be delighted to own and use the X1D even in the state it was in back then if it did not have auto focus at all.

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    Re: X1D, a nice interview but also no AF with HC-lenses...

    I have 7 HC lenses. Am I distressed that I would not be able at the outset to autofocus those lenses with the HC adapter? Not at all. The only lenses that will really be practical to mount on the HC adapter are the 28, 35, 50, 80 and 100. The three initial XCD lenses, the 30, the 45 and the 90, will pretty much cover the range of those HC lenses. I would plan to buy them. The longer HC lenses, the 120, the 150, and the 210, are too heavy for me to feel comfortable attaching them to the X1D with the adapter, as the adapter will not have a tripod mount. Bottom line, the HC adapter has little utility in my view if you buy the set of the first three XCD lenses.
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    Re: X1D, a nice interview but also no AF with HC-lenses...

    Well I would want the widest H there is and maybe like a 150 or 200 to hold me over until those natives came out. 3 lenses to start for me would be a little tough so that option could be very useful to a good set of folks. Now that's someone that started with a A7r and maybe 2 native lenses at the time so adapting was critical. This side of it don't bother me that much though. The Nikon protocol solves the flash issue which I do not have that solved on the Fuji so big plus for Hassy here for me. Phocus I used and actually liked it, Lightroom I won't go their and I don't see any options for Fuji except LR. This is really tough for me. Honestly and I'm not complaining about the cost as I think it's reasonably fair , it's my budget that is painful. Not Hassy fault but if they put in a 3 lens kit financing package together that may help a few folks dive in quicker.
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  47. #47
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    Re: X1D, a nice interview but also no AF with HC-lenses...

    So instead of talking down brands we have no interest in ourselves let's speculate which 5 lenses Hasselblad will release for the X1D in 2017.

    I am hoping for:
    - Macro (90+mm)
    - TS (24-mm) (I blame this forum for that)
    - a zoom preferably wide (20-70mm)

    That's FF mm btw.

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  48. #48
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    Re: X1D, a nice interview but also no AF with HC-lenses...

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Well I would want the widest H there is and maybe like a 150 or 200 to hold me over until those natives came out. 3 lenses to start for me would be a little tough so that option could be very useful to a good set of folks. Now that's someone that started with a A7r and maybe 2 native lenses at the time so adapting was critical. This side of it don't bother me that much though. The Nikon protocol solves the flash issue which I do not have that solved on the Fuji so big plus for Hassy here for me. Phocus I used and actually liked it, Lightroom I won't go their and I don't see any options for Fuji except LR. This is really tough for me. Honestly and I'm not complaining about the cost as I think it's reasonably fair , it's my budget that is painful. Not Hassy fault but if they put in a 3 lens kit financing package together that may help a few folks dive in quicker.
    I agree about the 150 and 210 HC lenses, Guy. My 150 and 210 HC lenses are excellent. However, Hasselblad has apparently not included a tripod collar for the HC Adapter, and I would not want to hang the 120, the 150 or the 210 off the X1D. Handheld where you could support the lens with one hand would be ok, but not on a tripod. Perhaps there is an aftermarket tripod collar that could be adapted to the adapter. (I believe some of the lens adapters for the Sony A7 series have tripod collars included, so why Hasselblad did not do that is inexplicable.)

  49. #49
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    Re: X1D, a nice interview but also no AF with HC-lenses...

    If you are starting fresh then the new x lenses would be great. But I have a set of H lenses and for me(my use) the whole point of this camera was a smaller, more mobile medium format body with a cmos sensor to compliment my larger setup and allow me to use the same lenses. And also as a backup. While not having AF via the adapter doesn't make it a deal breaker, it just makes me rethink things, especially with the Fuji camera. I would still lean towards the Hassy, but will definitely need to test it in person with the adapter. Having AF is just a major convenience and that quote doesn't say that it is coming for sure, it says that it may be possible. With all the delays in the release of the camera and all of the various AF adapters out there for Leica/Hassy, third party m4/3-canon & Nikon, etc that all AF, you would think that there would be someway to get it done, even if it meant hiring another engineer from outside the company to do it. Because for existing H users you're talking about $9,000 plus several hundred for the adapter vs. $9,000 plus approx $4,000 per lens. That adds up quickly. Hopefully for H users and them, they can figure out a way to get it done. AND BRING OUT THAT V CONCEPT!!! #droolemoji

  50. #50
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    Re: X1D, a nice interview but also no AF with HC-lenses...

    Quote Originally Posted by JoshMerwin View Post
    If you are starting fresh then the new x lenses would be great. But I have a set of H lenses and for me(my use) the whole point of this camera was a smaller, more mobile medium format body with a cmos sensor to compliment my larger setup and allow me to use the same lenses. And also as a backup. While not having AF via the adapter doesn't make it a deal breaker, it just makes me rethink things, especially with the Fuji camera. I would still lean towards the Hassy, but will definitely need to test it in person with the adapter. Having AF is just a major convenience and that quote doesn't say that it is coming for sure, it says that it may be possible. With all the delays in the release of the camera and all of the various AF adapters out there for Leica/Hassy, third party m4/3-canon & Nikon, etc that all AF, you would think that there would be someway to get it done, even if it meant hiring another engineer from outside the company to do it. Because for existing H users you're talking about $9,000 plus several hundred for the adapter vs. $9,000 plus approx $4,000 per lens. That adds up quickly. Hopefully for H users and them, they can figure out a way to get it done. AND BRING OUT THAT V CONCEPT!!! #droolemoji
    I completely understand. The level of financial commitment for the X1D is very different depending upon whether you have HC lenses AND you can use them the way you expected (i.e., with AF).
    BTW, only the 30mm lens is $4k. The 45mm is $2300 and the 90mm is $2700.

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