The GetDPI Photography Forum

Great to see you here. Join our insightful photographic forum today and start tapping into a huge wealth of photographic knowledge. Completing our simple registration process will allow you to gain access to exclusive content, add your own topics and posts, share your work and connect with other members through your own private inbox! And don’t forget to say hi!

Phase One Electronic Shutter - Full details and Q&A

Paul2660

Well-known member
One place it works for sure is on the longer Schneider lenses i.e. 75-150 and 240LS.

Even on tripod, I had found it very difficult to get a totally sharp image with the 240LS, unless I added the Really right stuff long lens support bracket, which adds a bit of weight to carry around. Just using Vibration reduction did not seem to matter, and if the camera is vertical, issue is even worse. Always have seen all Mamiya cameras, AFD, AFDII, AFDIII, DF, DF+ and now XF really kick when on vertical due to the mirror.

This morning, in low light, I was able to capture 1" to 30" with no problem with the 240LS. Still need to trigger from a remote release however. Takes a bit of getting used to, as there is no sound at all.

Personally, and this is just my 2 cents worth:

Phase One, could have taken a bit more time and written down in a manual just how the ES is implemented. All other camera companies I am aware of just do better doc. than P1. P1's answer is talk to your dealer. I understand, but some of this could have just as easily been covered in a manual.

Net, the ES is totally different in the way it works. XF and Tech camera. The menu that has been shown on this site and others only works with a Tech camera. In fact, on the tech camera it's very straight forward as everything is on one menu. No so on the XF as the ES controls are not very clearly spelled out. At least for me.

It appears that after working with the ES for a while the following conditions apply:

1. On a tech camera, you can only control the dark frame conditions with the ES enabled? So Phase One tied the ES and dark frame together or so it appears. Again not sure why this was done. There might be times the copal is fine to use, but you still don't want a dark frame again, 1" or longer.
2. On the XF, there is no way to control the dark frame conditions in single shutter mode. It appears that you can only control the Dark frame on the XF with under time-lapse, and focus stacking. It's very easy to fire the ES in single shutter mode, but I would still prefer not to have a dark frame each time, i.e. in longer exposures than 1". (hope I have this wrong but can't figure out any way to get dark frame control to show up on the XF in single shutter mode)
3. B and T mode, do not work with the ES, ( I don't understand why)

4 The ES control screen via camera controls only works shows up with the back attached to a tech camera, again why?

Still great tech, for sure and furthers the investment.

Paul C
 

ErikKaffehr

Well-known member
Hi Doug,

Anyway, good to see a lot of good development from Phase One! Not a potential buyer, but I still appreciate a good innovation when I see it!

Best regards
Erik


This is exactly right and the best wording I've seen so far.

Things that move fast AND cover a large part of the image = No good for ES
Things that move slow OR only cover a small part of the image = No problem

It will definitely be a joint learning experience as a community to see what scenes work perfectly well with ES and which scenes present challenges to an ES. I encourage all the IQ3 100mp owners out there to post examples as they come across them in their work.

But my gut feeling is that an ES will be great for the vast majority of landscape scenes.
 

dchew

Well-known member
One place it works for sure is on the longer Schneider lenses i.e. 75-150 and 240LS.

Even on tripod, I had found it very difficult to get a totally sharp image with the 240LS, unless I added the Really right stuff long lens support bracket, which adds a bit of weight to carry around. Just using Vibration reduction did not seem to matter, and if the camera is vertical, issue is even worse. Always have seen all Mamiya cameras, AFD, AFDII, AFDIII, DF, DF+ and now XF really kick when on vertical due to the mirror.
Paul,
I agree. Just the other day I was going through the shimming process with this back and was reminded how careful I need to be with the sk150. The slightest tug on the cable release results in significant blur. I'm definitely using ES w/ delay whenever I can.

Dave
 

vjbelle

Well-known member
Dave.... can't begin to tell you how much I agree..... One would think that a threaded shutter release cable would equal non-vibration but that is not the case. With longer lenses, in my case 180mm, even the hint of movement can cause blurring. I experimented with various cables finally settling on the Gepe cloth covered..... I even have another one coming tomorrow. Happily I won't be needing them any more.:D

Victor
 

vjbelle

Well-known member
Flash sync only

As explained in the electronic shutter article flash sync speed is limited to 1.6" and longer due to the rolling nature of the shutter. At shorter shutter speeds the flash sync is disabled as it would not work as-expected (only part of the scene would see the flash).
Doug.... first of all thanks for all of the information that you have provided. I did carefully read your article regarding the ES but I could not find a reference to the flash being disabled if not at the sync speed.... does make sense though.

Thanks for all of your valuable information which I'm sure is appreciated by many more than me.

Victor
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
Doug.... first of all thanks for all of the information that you have provided. I did carefully read your article regarding the ES but I could not find a reference to the flash being disabled if not at the sync speed.... does make sense though.

Thanks for all of your valuable information which I'm sure is appreciated by many more than me.

Victor
Noted! I've updated the article to state that explicitly. Thanks.
 
Hi Doug,

I'm curious whether the electronic shutter on a tech cam can use a remote release plugged into the back. If not, how do we avoid knocking the camera when releasing the shutter, especially for longer exposures?

Many thanks
Richard


There are a lot of new features in Feature Update 3 but the electronic shutter really stands out both for its massive implications as well as the complicated nature of the subject matter.

We've published an extensive article here: Phase One Electronic Shutter

We've been playing with this feature for a while now. If you have any questions leave them here or contact us and we'll be glad to answer.
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
Hi Doug,

I'm curious whether the electronic shutter on a tech cam can use a remote release plugged into the back. If not, how do we avoid knocking the camera when releasing the shutter, especially for longer exposures?

Many thanks
Richard
You can either:
- Use the self timer (located right next to the icon for the shutter release). 1" or 2" should do it in most cases, but you can go higher if you feel the need
- Use Capture Pilot on an iOS device, in which case you don't have to touch the camera to change shutter speeds or to review the image (in case registration between shots is important)
 

Paul2660

Well-known member
Same thought I had. As far as am aware there is no remote release that plugs into th back only the XF.

Would have to trigger a longer exposure from a tethered PC or Capture pilot. Wifi connection with IQ100 is much better than the older IQ backs I worked with.

Paul C
 

dchew

Well-known member
I've been testing the 2 sec delay with the sk150 mounted, just stabbing the button on the back screen. No issues that I can see.

Dave
 

dchew

Well-known member
Looks like we’ll be needing to hang on to this stuff, may run into an occasional shot that the rolling shutter would be a problem.
You are right; I was being a bit dramatic. But I certainly don't need one for each lens, spares and backups. I could just keep one for the occasional use and use zero latency in a pinch.
 

gerald.d

Well-known member
Same thought I had. As far as am aware there is no remote release that plugs into th back only the XF.

Would have to trigger a longer exposure from a tethered PC or Capture pilot. Wifi connection with IQ100 is much better than the older IQ backs I worked with.

Paul C
Hi Paul -

IQ backs have always been able to be remotely triggered, no?

Wouldn't the 1/5 meter trigger cable here suffice?

https://www.phaseone.com/en/Camera-Systems/Accessories/Products.aspx?

Kind regards,


Gerald.
 
Thanks Doug,
I've found Capture Pilot unreliable on the IQ260. It often loses the connection and to reconnect requires restarting both back and iPad. Is it better on this generation of backs?

The self timer would be fine for anything but critical moment shots - certainly good for architecture and landscape.




You can either:
- Use the self timer (located right next to the icon for the shutter release). 1" or 2" should do it in most cases, but you can go higher if you feel the need
- Use Capture Pilot on an iOS device, in which case you don't have to touch the camera to change shutter speeds or to review the image (in case registration between shots is important)
 

Christopher

Active member
Thanks Doug,
I've found Capture Pilot unreliable on the IQ260. It often loses the connection and to reconnect requires restarting both back and iPad. Is it better on this generation of backs?

The self timer would be fine for anything but critical moment shots - certainly good for architecture and landscape.
I can only talk about my experience with the IQ3 100. I used Capture Pilot and Wifi extensively on my last trip. (Probably around 5000 shots or so) It worked great. I had only 2 disconnects during the whole time. I honestly don't use anything else. Its so great to change all exposure settings on the app without needing to touch the XF or back. The only slight drawback is it takes a little bit more out of the battery. However, I can live with that.
 

Paul2660

Well-known member
Wifi on IQ100 vs IQ260 is

Much more stable
Easier to connect
Has much less disconnects

In essence it works as I thought it should on the IQ260 but didn't

Paul C
 
It seems that the step up from IQ260 to IQ100 is getting bigger and more worthwhile with every update and every user testimonial. Very impressive work by Phase.


Wifi on IQ100 vs IQ260 is

Much more stable
Easier to connect
Has much less disconnects

In essence it works as I thought it should on the IQ260 but didn't

Paul C
 
Top