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Why non Team Phase One users should avoid Capture One…

ErikKaffehr

Well-known member
Hi,

Sometime the question arises to how to use Capture One with other MFD products. I would say that the message from Phase One is really, "Don't do that!".

Why? Because Phase One sees Capture One as a competitive advantage, so they have a policy not to support competing MFD systems. Some solutions may work today but may not work tomorrow.

Recent versions of Capture One are supposed to have better support for DNG, but it does not apply for DNGs from competing systems. Leica S may be an exception, I don't know. C1 definitively rejects DNGs converted from an older Hassy back I tested this morning. Even if C1 supports DNG it seems to be half hearted. DNG has support for DNG Colour Profiles, which strongly suggest a raw conversion workflow. Capture One does not support the conversion pipeline described in the DCP documentation. That means that DNG files are essentially useless regarding colour profiling and conversion.

So, what are the alternatives?

There are some alternatives like RawTherapee that may be quite a bit ahead commercial software. But, they are raw converters and not workflow solutions.

Hasselblad users can fall back to Phocus. Phocus is said to be a very well tuned solution for Hasselblad users. It is probably more of a raw converter than a workflow solution.

The 800 pound gorilla in the workflow market is Lightroom. In my view Lightroom has some solid disadvantage in demosaic, but it may be stated that this weakness is only obvious when pixel peeping. On the plus side Lightroom has a wide assortment of colour calibration stuff available. Adobe colour profiles are known to be a bit bland, though. Some vendors like Pentax embed a more tuned colour profile in their DNG files.

Anders Torger has developed a tool called DCamProf that has a more modern approach to colour profiling, but the version available now is intended for folks in command of the command line…

Anyway, my advice would be to ignore Capture One for non Team Phase One backs. C1 does not embrace competing MFD system by intent.

Best regards
Erik
 
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Don Libby

Well-known member
Very good points. I'd also add that one should also avoid Phocus if your are a Team Phase One user. Both companies are looking out for the best interest of their main customers. I routinely use C1 for Sony files, both regular color and infrared work and have had great success; never having experience with Phocus I have no idea what other camera systems they may or may not support.
 

jerome_m

Member
I'd also add that one should also avoid Phocus if your are a Team Phase One user.
Obviously. It is not possible to use Phocus on Phase One files.

Maybe I should explain for those who do not use Phocus. First, Phocus can be downloaded for free, it is a conversion tool and tethering software, while Phocus is sold as a general conversion and catalogue tool for many cameras. Second, it is only designed for Hasselblad files. On windows machines, it will only accept Hasselblad files.

Where it gets confusing is that, on Apple Macs, Phocus will take advantage of OS X raw libraries to accept any raw file that OS X can read. So one can try Phocus on Sony, Nikon or Canon files. That works, although some functions are disabled (basically, the ones not supported by the OS X conversion routines). But OS X does not support Phase One cameras. Why? I don't know, but that means that Phocus will not read these files on a Mac either.
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
Obviously. It is not possible to use Phocus on Phase One files.

Maybe I should explain for those who do not use Phocus. First, Phocus can be downloaded for free, it is a conversion tool and tethering software, while Phocus is sold as a general conversion and catalogue tool for many cameras. Second, it is only designed for Hasselblad files. On windows machines, it will only accept Hasselblad files.

Where it gets confusing is that, on Apple Macs, Phocus will take advantage of OS X raw libraries to accept any raw file that OS X can read. So one can try Phocus on Sony, Nikon or Canon files. That works, although some functions are disabled (basically, the ones not supported by the OS X conversion routines). But OS X does not support Phase One cameras. Why? I don't know, but that means that Phocus will not read these files on a Mac either.
Is it possible to tether using Phocus on Macs with non-Hasselblad cameras by chance?
 

hcubell

Well-known member
Obviously. It is not possible to use Phocus on Phase One files.

Maybe I should explain for those who do not use Phocus. First, Phocus can be downloaded for free, it is a conversion tool and tethering software, while Phocus is sold as a general conversion and catalogue tool for many cameras. Second, it is only designed for Hasselblad files. On windows machines, it will only accept Hasselblad files.

Where it gets confusing is that, on Apple Macs, Phocus will take advantage of OS X raw libraries to accept any raw file that OS X can read. So one can try Phocus on Sony, Nikon or Canon files. That works, although some functions are disabled (basically, the ones not supported by the OS X conversion routines). But OS X does not support Phase One cameras. Why? I don't know, but that means that Phocus will not read these files on a Mac either.
Call a spade, a spade. What Phase does in closing its software to competitive MF cameras/backs is done purely to maintain a competitive advantage in the marketplace. You want to use Capture One with MF digital? No problem, just make sure you don't buy a Fuji GFX, a Hasselblad X1D or H6, a Pentax 645Z or a Leica S. Buy a Phase solution for 4X. They do it because they have been able to do it, and any revenue from sales of software that Phase loses in the process is peanuts compared to the incremental sales of Phase backs and cameras and lenses that people are "forced" into buying.
If I were in their shoes, I would do the same.
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
I'm with Don -- I *LOVE* the C1 workflow, and *LOVE* the conversions I get for my Nikon, Sony and Leica digi-cams -- to date, nothing I've used has proven technically superior.

That said, it's also worked really well on Kodak, Leaf and Mamiya MFD files for me -- so I think it's a little disingenuous of the OP to trash it globally for "other MFD products," though I accept the OP has a bias against it. I have heard that if you use a Hassy back, then the best option is Phocus, so I'd agree with that one.
 

Jamgolf

Member
I have used Capture One for several years for processing RAW files from Nikon D700 & D800, Leica M9, Pentax 645D, Fuji XT1, Credo 60 and now IQ3. Prior to that I was a die hard Nikon Capture NX user but once I tried Capture One, I ditched Capture NX even for Nikon files. So, everyone can have different opinion on this matter based on taste, work flow preferences, first hand experience etc.

Based on my experience, I would never discourage non Phase One users to stay away from Capture One. In fact I would not discourage anyone from trying any tool. Most software is available for trial and there is nothing really to loose. Trying image processing hosts and plugins is one of the cheapest things photographers can do that can potentially provide the biggest bang for their buck in terms of achieving superior image quality.
 

Nutcracker

New member
C1 is excellent for many non-Phase cameras, including my Nikons and Sonys. Perhaps OP intended to refer to avoiding C1 for non-Phase MF, which would be fair. However, the bald statement is not correct.
Hi,

Sometime the question arises to how to use Capture One with other MFD products. I would say that the message from Phase One is really, "Don't do that!".

Why? Because Phase One sees Capture One as a competitive advantage, so they have a policy not to support competing MFD systems. Some solutions may work today but may not work tomorrow.

Recent versions of Capture One are supposed to have better support for DNG, but it does not apply for DNGs from competing systems. Leica S may be an exception, I don't know. C1 definitively rejects DNGs converted from an older Hassy back I tested this morning. Even if C1 supports DNG it seems to be half hearted. DNG has support for DNG Colour Profiles, which strongly suggest a raw conversion workflow. Capture One does not support the conversion pipeline described in the DCP documentation. That means that DNG files are essentially useless regarding colour profiling and conversion.

So, what are the alternatives?

There are some alternatives like RawTherapee that may be quite a bit ahead commercial software. But, they are raw converters and not workflow solutions.

Hasselblad users can fall back to Phocus. Phocus is said to be a very well tuned solution for Hasselblad users. It is probably more of a raw converter than a workflow solution.

The 800 pound gorilla in the workflow market is Lightroom. In my view Lightroom has some solid disadvantage in demosaic, but it may be stated that this weakness is only obvious when pixel peeping. On the plus side Lightroom has a wide assortment of colour calibration stuff available. Adobe colour profiles are known to be a bit bland, though. Some vendors like Pentax embed a more tuned colour profile in their DNG files.

Anders Torger has developed a tool called DCamProf that has a more modern approach to colour profiling, but the version available now is intended for folks in command of the command line…

Anyway, my advice would be to ignore Capture One for non Team Phase One backs. C1 does not embrace competing MD system by intent.

Best regards
Erik
 

erlingmm

Active member
I am a Leica S user who have used C1 periodically. With every new version I had hoped the S system would be included, but no. When I ask C1 or post in the forum on S support, the posts get deleted. Color profiling is too awkward for a normal user, contrary to LR.

Although I like the results (I use DNG neutral as a profile), I have given up, and will not upgrade anymore. At the same time, I feel LR has improved, and has better workflow.

Not supporting other MF cameras is obviously a policy from C1/P1. I don't really se how this benefits the sale of P1 cameras, but it is their choice.
 
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GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
I'm with Don -- I *LOVE* the C1 workflow, and *LOVE* the conversions I get for my Nikon, Sony and Leica digi-cams -- to date, nothing I've used has proven technically superior.

That said, it's also worked really well on Kodak, Leaf and Mamiya MFD files for me -- so I think it's a little disingenuous of the OP to trash it globally for "other MFD products," though I accept the OP has a bias against it. I have heard that if you use a Hassy back, then the best option is Phocus, so I'd agree with that one.
I'm with Don & Jack too, although I do question Jack on one important point and that is Kodak file support in C1. I've always wanted that for the thousands of DCS 645M files that I have and it hasn't been supported (to my knowledge) which I always found somewhat strange given the Kodak/Creo/Leaf lineage of those files. I no longer have a Mac OS X version that supports the Kodak converter and Looks that I own and so if I ever want to rework those files I'd have to use a converter like ACR (which I truly have never liked).
 

Don Libby

Well-known member
Something to consider is that maybe C1 was unable to get the Hass files thus no support; reminds me of waiting for PS to begin supporting a newly released camera system. Both C1 and Pocus are offered as a free download as a direct support much like Sony, Canon and Nikon. I've tried several times to like LR and failed. My primary software is C1 which I use to run all my files through (currently Phase and Sony) followed by PSCC should the need arise.
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
Will the Kodak software and special looks plug in work on your Surface Pro?

ken
Hmm, good point. I don't think that I've got a windows version of the DCS converter but worth trawling the net. I would still prefer that C1 supported the files though :thumbup:

As the flip side to the OP, I typically will ONLY buy a camera system that has C1 support ... (ok other than my CFV16 I guess).
 

JohnBrew

Active member
Way back when Leica released the M8, C1 was included. I never could make head or tails from the files using C1. It wasn't intuitive and the results were, frankly, awful. Now I realize that was quite a while ago but I don't care. I've had a few different cameras since then and even tried C1 again, more than once, with their files and never could get to first base. And what was C1's solution? I would need to go to Atlanta or New York for special instruction. Hogwash.
 

ErikKaffehr

Well-known member
Hi,

The thread title may be misleading a bit. The intention was to discuss using Capture One with MFD coming from non Team Phase Vendors. That should have been made clear in the thread title, but it is pretty obvious if you read the first posting

I would change the title of the thread if I could.

Some non Team Phase One users want to use Capture One with competing MFD, see this thread as an example:

http://www.getdpi.com/forum/medium-...59897-hasselblad-raw-editing-capture-one.html

Best regards
Erik
 

kdphotography

Well-known member
Hmm, good point. I don't think that I've got a windows version of the DCS converter but worth trawling the net. I would still prefer that C1 supported the files though :thumbup:

As the flip side to the OP, I typically will ONLY buy a camera system that has C1 support ... (ok other than my CFV16 I guess).
Remind me for CI in the Southwest (Pigs) April 2017---I'll look. I should have both the Kodak DCS converter and the special looks module.

ken
 
I used C1 with my Nikon and Sony Cameras and liked the color rendition and sofisticated features of the software, although I find the software not very intuitive (though getting better). Lightroom is horrible with Nikon and Sony Raw files, IMO

Since I bought my Leica S, I use exclusively Lightroom. The colors from the DNG files are wonderful and the options are quite sufficient. Some features of C1 could be integrated in LR, but nothing earth moving, IMO. Anyway, the files move to Photoshop for detailed processing, if necessary.

So for me it is a non-issue, and what I hear from Hasselblad users, it's the same with Phocus.

Really, I cannot see C1 as a main factor for deciding for one or another system …

So Erik, I agree with your conclusions, only adding this advise to not-P1 users: don't worry about C1 … and be happy with your Pentax, Hasselblad or Leica System and their respective Raw processors.
 
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jerome_m

Member
Is it possible to tether using Phocus on Macs with non-Hasselblad cameras by chance?
No. The tether functions are specific to Hasselblad cameras.

OTOH, they are quite good. They allow you do adjust all camera settings, including focus or mirror up and have a liveview system which works even on the old backs.
 

ErikKaffehr

Well-known member
Hi Graham,

So you are none of those having the X1D on preorder?

Best regards
Erik

Hmm, good point. I don't think that I've got a windows version of the DCS converter but worth trawling the net. I would still prefer that C1 supported the files though :thumbup:

As the flip side to the OP, I typically will ONLY buy a camera system that has C1 support ... (ok other than my CFV16 I guess).
 
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