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Phase One Zooms vs Primes
- Thread starter rriley
- Start date
Christopher
Active member
Before the BR were released the zooms were amazing and for the 40-80 you needed a very good 80 and 55 copy.
I can't talk about the 55 but my 80BR is amazing and much better when all of my 3 80 LS none BR.
I haven't hothead the chance to work with the zoom after they became BR.
Just to make sure. Yes the design is the same between the BR and none BR lenses, however quality control picked up and I don't find it surprising that my 80BR outperform all of my 80 I ever owned. (6 in total; only one of them is getting close. )
I can't talk about the 55 but my 80BR is amazing and much better when all of my 3 80 LS none BR.
I haven't hothead the chance to work with the zoom after they became BR.
Just to make sure. Yes the design is the same between the BR and none BR lenses, however quality control picked up and I don't find it surprising that my 80BR outperform all of my 80 I ever owned. (6 in total; only one of them is getting close. )
Thank you for your comments.
I am wondering if anyone here can comment on the P1BR Zooms?
I am wondering if anyone here can comment on the P1BR Zooms?
ejpeiker
Member
I have both and am very happy with both. They are big and heavy and slowish compared to the primes at f/4-5.6 but they are very sharp and the convenience of a wide range of focal lengths in just two lenses is great. My only wish is that the would be a 25-50mm to round out the full range of required focal lengths for me. I use them on an XF with IQ3-100.
dougpeterson
Workshop Member
Several disjointed thoughts:
- In the Blue Ring lineup there is not a single sloucher. They are all very good or better.
- There are differences in image quality that you can measure and show, but in my opinion they are close enough (even for quality-scrutinous individuals) that decisions by nearly all users should be made based on weight/size/cost and focal length coverage/spread rather than on the small differences in images quality.
- We have many IQ3 100mp shots that include at least one from every lens in the lineup here: IQ3 100mp Raw File Download
- Your dealer can help you run your own tests. This is important since there are many variables and no one else's tests (no matter how well done) will have every variable set the way your specific use calls for. If you're in the US we'd be glad to help with this.
- In most cases the blue ring design did not change optical performance. So a refurbished non-BR Schneider lens can be a way to get the IQ without as many $
. The 35LS and 150LS/2.8 are examples where this does not apply since the Blue Ring versions significantly improved IQ.
- In the Blue Ring lineup there is not a single sloucher. They are all very good or better.
- There are differences in image quality that you can measure and show, but in my opinion they are close enough (even for quality-scrutinous individuals) that decisions by nearly all users should be made based on weight/size/cost and focal length coverage/spread rather than on the small differences in images quality.
- We have many IQ3 100mp shots that include at least one from every lens in the lineup here: IQ3 100mp Raw File Download
- Your dealer can help you run your own tests. This is important since there are many variables and no one else's tests (no matter how well done) will have every variable set the way your specific use calls for. If you're in the US we'd be glad to help with this.
- In most cases the blue ring design did not change optical performance. So a refurbished non-BR Schneider lens can be a way to get the IQ without as many $
. The 35LS and 150LS/2.8 are examples where this does not apply since the Blue Ring versions significantly improved IQ.
Steve Hendrix
Well-known member
In my opinion, the performance of the Schneider 40-80 and 75-150 lenses may be the best I've seen from a medium format zoom lens. They are very good. But as has been noted, they're the largest lenses, they are relatively slow lenses, and the 40-80 is the most expensive lens in the lineup ($2,000 higher than any other lens).
If you like zooms and you can handle the weight, thumbs up.
If you want the very sharpest results, as good as the zooms are, the primes still edge them (at least narrowly).
In my testing so far, I have not yet found a Blue Ring Lens that exceeds a quality copy of the same lens in non Blue Ring. This isn't definitive, just my experience so far (others may experience different results). I do feel that purchasing a Blue Ring lens reduces the possibility that you'll pull a lemon card when it comes to lens variations (all lenses from every mainstream manufacturer has lens variations, some more than others).
Blue Ring scorecard:
* Schneider 35mm/3.5 Blue Line LS - completely new optic
* Schneider 45mm/2.8 Blue Line LS - completely new optic
* Schneider150mm/2.8 Blue Line LS - completely new optic*
* Schneider 55mm/2.8 Blue Line LS - (same optic as previous LS version)
* Schneider 80mm/2.8 Blue Line LS - (same optic as previous LS version)
* Schneider 110mm/2.8 Blue Line LS - same optic as previous LS version)
* Schneider 120mm/4 Blue Line LS - (probably same optic as previous AF version, I find the 2 lenses perform very similarly)
* Schneider 150mm/3.5 Blue Line LS - (same optic as previous LS version)
* Schneider 240mm/4.5 Blue Line LS - (same optic as previous LS version)
* Schneider 40mm-80mm/4.0-5.6 Blue Line LS - (same optic as previous LS version)
* Schneider 75mm-150mm/4.0-5.6 Blue Line LS - (same optic as previous LS version)
As was stated by Doug, all the newest versions of the Schneider Blue Ring LS Lenses are outstanding. Note the Schneider 28 LS does not have a Blue Ring version (I'm hoping that a completely new optic emerges, as the current version has promise but is ultimately undone by poor edge performance. And the previous Schneider 150mm/3.5 LS Lens appeared before the Blue Line lenses, was added as a Blue Line, still is a current product in the lens lineup, but is surpassed in performance by the newer 150mm/2.8 Blue Line LS announced last month.
Steve Hendrix/CI
If you like zooms and you can handle the weight, thumbs up.
If you want the very sharpest results, as good as the zooms are, the primes still edge them (at least narrowly).
In my testing so far, I have not yet found a Blue Ring Lens that exceeds a quality copy of the same lens in non Blue Ring. This isn't definitive, just my experience so far (others may experience different results). I do feel that purchasing a Blue Ring lens reduces the possibility that you'll pull a lemon card when it comes to lens variations (all lenses from every mainstream manufacturer has lens variations, some more than others).
Blue Ring scorecard:
* Schneider 35mm/3.5 Blue Line LS - completely new optic
* Schneider 45mm/2.8 Blue Line LS - completely new optic
* Schneider150mm/2.8 Blue Line LS - completely new optic*
* Schneider 55mm/2.8 Blue Line LS - (same optic as previous LS version)
* Schneider 80mm/2.8 Blue Line LS - (same optic as previous LS version)
* Schneider 110mm/2.8 Blue Line LS - same optic as previous LS version)
* Schneider 120mm/4 Blue Line LS - (probably same optic as previous AF version, I find the 2 lenses perform very similarly)
* Schneider 150mm/3.5 Blue Line LS - (same optic as previous LS version)
* Schneider 240mm/4.5 Blue Line LS - (same optic as previous LS version)
* Schneider 40mm-80mm/4.0-5.6 Blue Line LS - (same optic as previous LS version)
* Schneider 75mm-150mm/4.0-5.6 Blue Line LS - (same optic as previous LS version)
As was stated by Doug, all the newest versions of the Schneider Blue Ring LS Lenses are outstanding. Note the Schneider 28 LS does not have a Blue Ring version (I'm hoping that a completely new optic emerges, as the current version has promise but is ultimately undone by poor edge performance. And the previous Schneider 150mm/3.5 LS Lens appeared before the Blue Line lenses, was added as a Blue Line, still is a current product in the lens lineup, but is surpassed in performance by the newer 150mm/2.8 Blue Line LS announced last month.
Steve Hendrix/CI
kdphotography
Well-known member
Not sure why you have that asterisk at the end of your notation on the Schneider150mm/2.8 Blue Line LS?
It must be a reminder for me.
I don't think I can wait for delivery at Capture Integration in the Southwest 2017....
ken
Steve Hendrix
Well-known member
Not sure why you have that asterisk at the end of your notation on the Schneider150mm/2.8 Blue Line LS?
It must be a reminder for me.
I don't think I can wait for delivery at Capture Integration in the Southwest 2017....
ken
LOL
Yes, an asterisk typo. I think I'll leave it there, just for you Ken.
Steve Hendrix/CI
aztwang
Member
Ken,Not sure why you have that asterisk at the end of your notation on the Schneider150mm/2.8 Blue Line LS?
It must be a reminder for me.
I don't think I can wait for delivery at Capture Integration in the Southwest 2017....
ken
When you get it, If you dont already have it in hand!!
I would love to hear/see a comparison with the 150mm 3.5 LSDon
Christopher
Active member
Just look at my comparison of both lenses in the other thread.
The 150/3.5 never was and still is just a ok lens... even the BR version isn't any better.
The 150/3.5 never was and still is just a ok lens... even the BR version isn't any better.
kdphotography
Well-known member
I think our standards must be getting higher or we just start demanding more with all these "new" lenses being released. And so with tongue in cheek, I put another blue rubber band on my Phase SK LS lenses....
My copy of the 150 LS 3.5 is sharp. Very sharp---and that's with the IQ3 100MP. So at least for me, with my copy of the 150mm LS with blue rubber band, is more than an "ok" lens. And sometimes in portraiture, there can be a point of being too sharp or sterile. But I also use the 150mm focal for other purposes. This may very well be a case of "ooh, shiny---I gotta have it" for me. :loco: I don't doubt that the new SK 150mm 2.8 LS is a better performer overall based on comments from Steve and Christopher. I look forward to trying it myself.
Biggest differences in my mind:
SK 150mm 2.8 LS: Big/heavy; 1/1000th flash sync; sharper lens
SK 150mm 3.5 LS: Compact; 1/1600th flash sync; replaceable blue rubber band :ROTFL:
I'll most likely sell my SK 150mm 3.5 LS, though I'm tempted to hold onto it only because of it's compact size relative to all these new "big lenses" in the line-up (and on my shelf). My 110mm LS would then be the smallest lens with all the rest being "big lenses." My Pelican cases are looking really small right now...
ken
My copy of the 150 LS 3.5 is sharp. Very sharp---and that's with the IQ3 100MP. So at least for me, with my copy of the 150mm LS with blue rubber band, is more than an "ok" lens. And sometimes in portraiture, there can be a point of being too sharp or sterile. But I also use the 150mm focal for other purposes. This may very well be a case of "ooh, shiny---I gotta have it" for me. :loco: I don't doubt that the new SK 150mm 2.8 LS is a better performer overall based on comments from Steve and Christopher. I look forward to trying it myself.
Biggest differences in my mind:
SK 150mm 2.8 LS: Big/heavy; 1/1000th flash sync; sharper lens
SK 150mm 3.5 LS: Compact; 1/1600th flash sync; replaceable blue rubber band :ROTFL:
I'll most likely sell my SK 150mm 3.5 LS, though I'm tempted to hold onto it only because of it's compact size relative to all these new "big lenses" in the line-up (and on my shelf). My 110mm LS would then be the smallest lens with all the rest being "big lenses." My Pelican cases are looking really small right now...
ken
Don Libby
Well-known member
About half my current lenses are now zoom. the 40-80 and 75-150 are better than anything I've used to date then again so is the 35 and 240 for primes. I still have an older 28 which I haven't tested on the new IQ1-100 however since I plan to use this solely for nightscape it should pose a problem. Going back to the question of the new zooms; the quality is stunning with a price of weight. The 40-80 is a beast but one I wouldn't give up anytime soon. The 75-150 is slightly better in weight.
I've got a rather long trip coming up next year to Hawaii and I plan to take just 2-lenses; both zooms. I'll be photographing from boats and helicopters as well as hiking. That's how much I think of these lenses.
Don
I think Ken should get the new 150 just so he can have it early next year...
I've got a rather long trip coming up next year to Hawaii and I plan to take just 2-lenses; both zooms. I'll be photographing from boats and helicopters as well as hiking. That's how much I think of these lenses.
Don
I think Ken should get the new 150 just so he can have it early next year...
Steve Hendrix
Well-known member
I know Doug, they're determined to take over the world by any means necessary.
But to be fair, of the 11 Blue Line lenses, Phase One has not emphasized any optical advantage for the the 8 versions thought to be the same optical formula as the previous non Blue Ring LS Lenses. And 5 of those 8 lenses experienced no price increase.
Steve Hendrix/CI
Craig Stocks
Well-known member
One thought on use is the different approach to controlling autofocus. I may be wrong but it looks like all of the BR lenses use the push-pull autofocus on/off method.
I personally find the rotating collar on the non BR lenses more convenient and sure. The push-pull on the BR lens has a wonderfull smooth feel but moves too easily for my taste. Since I use back button focus I prefer a way to securely set the lens to autofocus and forget about it like I can do with the non-BR lenses.
I personally find the rotating collar on the non BR lenses more convenient and sure. The push-pull on the BR lens has a wonderfull smooth feel but moves too easily for my taste. Since I use back button focus I prefer a way to securely set the lens to autofocus and forget about it like I can do with the non-BR lenses.
kdphotography
Well-known member
Craig is talking about the "other ring" on the barrel which sets the AF-MF lock. The ring on my 40-80 is pretty firm, but on other lenses it can be easy to accidentally switch settings, such as when taking the camera out or putting it back in the its case. It may also loosen up over time with use. I've also "accidentally" hit the switch on twist type locks, but I think the push-pull lock might be easier to trip accidentally. The focal length lock is new.
ken
ken
Chipcarterdc
New member
I've accidentally flipped that switch/pushed that ring myself on multiple occasions. Frustrating.
I don't particularly like the push-pull method of AF/MF switching in any event. I greatly prefer AF systems having full time MF override (like the Leica S lenses).
I don't particularly like the push-pull method of AF/MF switching in any event. I greatly prefer AF systems having full time MF override (like the Leica S lenses).