Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
Exactly than more will come no doubt
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The S2 is a huge opportunity - it's the adapters stupid
- Thread starter Woody Campbell
- Start date
carstenw
Active member
Wow, is it really that simple?
jdbfreeheel
Member
And this from Leaf America today...
So, Let the price wars begin...Phase One, yours is the next move.
I think the 54s with its speed and fantastic 22mp chip is a winner at that price.
-Josh
904-405D VALEO 22WI MAMIYA $4,445
904-415D VALEO 22WI UNIVERSAL $4,445
904-425D VALEO 22WI HASSELBLAD H1 $4,445
906-120D APTUS 22 HASSELBLAD H1 $6,669
906-201D APTUS 17 F/MAMIYA $4,445
906-210D APTUS 17 UNIVERSAL $4,445
906-220D APTUS 17 HASSELBLAD H1 $4,445
906-401D APTUS 75 F/MAMIYA $11,110
906-420D APTUS 75 F/HASSELBLAD H1 $11,110
906-105D APTUS 54S F/MAMIYA $6,669
906-115D APTUS 54S UNIVERSAL $6,669
906-125D APTUS 54S F/HASSELBLAD H1 $6,669
906-405D APTUS 75S F/MAMIYA $12,229
906-415D APTUS 75S UNIVERSAL $12,229
906-425D APTUS 75S F/HASSELBLAD H1 $12,229
906-142D LEAF AFI 5 $17,199
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Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
Just got that one too from Leaf
Crikies! They also dropped the price of the Aptus-II/10, 54 meg Pano back by $10,000. !!!!!
Hasselblad V mount.
yaya
Active member
56MP...
See the rest of the US promotions
We'll have a new page for European promotions shortly
Yair
OOPS! Sorry Yair, yeah ... 56MP.
Lacking a square format sensor larger than 36.6X36.6, the revolving 36 X 56 SensorFlex of the Aptus-II 10 would be great for a 6X6 like the Hasselblad V that doesn't offer a revolving back option ... and the preselected format crop option is also pretty cool. Love to see the Zeiss 40IF using that back on full 56. Love the tilt up screen, haven't seen that since my first digital back ... the original Kodak Pro Back.
I see that Lightroom 2.1 and Adobe Camera RAW 5.1 directly support Leaf files. Gotta tell you, that was a real plus when using my Aptus 75s. I used to open Leaf Capture AND Adobe Bridge and shoot tethered to a desktop folder using Bridge as the browser and the Capture window for full frame viewing ... fastest workflow ever! :thumbs:
Very innovative products IMO. What a rotten time to be tight on cash
Anyway, the maximizing of existing systems, (with more favorable pricing to come from all makers I'd bet), sort of illustrates what the S2 is up against IMO.
KeithL
Well-known member
Yair, I'd be grateful if you could post a link here.
I'm currently looking at all options...
yaya
Active member
Hello Keith, sure I will. In them meantime you can see some of the offers on Peartree's website
woodyspedden
New member
Wow, if the S2 accomplishes nothing more (and I know it will) it has driven the back manufacturers to go crazy with their prices in advance of the real launch.
Woody
Woody
Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
I agree tough times means some pricing decreases. Not the greatest thing in the world but if it can bring someone into the MF world that was sitting on the fence than i think it is a good thing. As long as we don't see more OEM's closing there doors . Now that is a bad thing for all.
I wouldn't give credit to the S2. Not only is it not out yet but it's expected to be (at best) a like-priced (to pre-yesterday values anyway) kit.
A far more likely scenario, especially given the current pricing curve on lower-MP-count MFDB systems, will see the S2 as a (hefty) premium system.
Given Leica's history, tendencies and economic size, not to mention the raft of R&D just spent (vs well behind H & P in that MP range), there is only so far Leica can lock-step down the 38-39MP pricing curve (as much as they intended to do so) before the S2 becomes economically undoable.
It puts Leica in a bind if things continue. They could the S2 HAVE to be priced (their pricing tendencies aside) at snack brackets that, upon the S2's release, have become 45-50MP territory for H, P and Leaf. You can also assume that upon the S2s release, promotions will be forthcoming to given even greater hesitation to any folks looking to jump.
The S2 will also be at the lower-end (never though I'd say this about 38-39MP kit) of the MP-count range -- going up against products like the H3DII-39 which looks to be starting to be pushed down the stack by Hassy (they really seem to be pushing it) to become their entry high-spec kit (probably not explaining what I mean well).
In short, the last thing Hassy et al have to worry about is Leica offering a top quality product (a given) at cut-rate prices (no way) to steal share.
If anything Leica needs to get the S2 out early and price it as aggressively as the spreadsheets will allow - even to the point of loosing margin on a per body basis and push the glass. That said, won't happen.
The current moves are Hassy trying to entice nervous Leaf-Sinar shooters after the F&H news and Leaf trying to re-assure/keep the same group - and maybe, just maybe, entice some shooters over to avoid sales stagnation as people hold fire to see how the Sinar situation plays out.
It would be an obvious conclusion that Phamiya will be next.
...Just some opinionated mutterings from the cheap seats ;>
A far more likely scenario, especially given the current pricing curve on lower-MP-count MFDB systems, will see the S2 as a (hefty) premium system.
Given Leica's history, tendencies and economic size, not to mention the raft of R&D just spent (vs well behind H & P in that MP range), there is only so far Leica can lock-step down the 38-39MP pricing curve (as much as they intended to do so) before the S2 becomes economically undoable.
It puts Leica in a bind if things continue. They could the S2 HAVE to be priced (their pricing tendencies aside) at snack brackets that, upon the S2's release, have become 45-50MP territory for H, P and Leaf. You can also assume that upon the S2s release, promotions will be forthcoming to given even greater hesitation to any folks looking to jump.
The S2 will also be at the lower-end (never though I'd say this about 38-39MP kit) of the MP-count range -- going up against products like the H3DII-39 which looks to be starting to be pushed down the stack by Hassy (they really seem to be pushing it) to become their entry high-spec kit (probably not explaining what I mean well).
In short, the last thing Hassy et al have to worry about is Leica offering a top quality product (a given) at cut-rate prices (no way) to steal share.
If anything Leica needs to get the S2 out early and price it as aggressively as the spreadsheets will allow - even to the point of loosing margin on a per body basis and push the glass. That said, won't happen.
The current moves are Hassy trying to entice nervous Leaf-Sinar shooters after the F&H news and Leaf trying to re-assure/keep the same group - and maybe, just maybe, entice some shooters over to avoid sales stagnation as people hold fire to see how the Sinar situation plays out.
It would be an obvious conclusion that Phamiya will be next.
...Just some opinionated mutterings from the cheap seats ;>
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ptomsu
Workshop Member
@ robmac et al.
I agree with most of your thoughts. If Leica does not aggressively price the S2 and try to get some money back from lens sales, they will be dead from the beginning.
Hasselblad seems to be currently the big Gorilla in the digital MF market and this gives them some power to use the weakness of competitors for their own advantage. Even if Dr. Kaufmann throws in some more millions of Euros he will not be able to bring the S2 up from ground against Hasselblad - if they decide to keep Leica off the playground. And I do not see any reasons why Hasselblad would not do their homework and try not to get another competitor.
The good side on this fight is, that it will bring overall price levels down.
The sad (bad) side is, that it shows how even a technically excellent product can be dead before it even gets market share, just because of economics.
The only chance would have been that Leica had the S System ready for shipment at last PK 2008, and this to attractive prices. Each month they take longer for market introduction, the prices decrease and the possibilities for S System success diminish significantly.
Who wants to bet? Lets talk about this again in 8 months
I agree with most of your thoughts. If Leica does not aggressively price the S2 and try to get some money back from lens sales, they will be dead from the beginning.
Hasselblad seems to be currently the big Gorilla in the digital MF market and this gives them some power to use the weakness of competitors for their own advantage. Even if Dr. Kaufmann throws in some more millions of Euros he will not be able to bring the S2 up from ground against Hasselblad - if they decide to keep Leica off the playground. And I do not see any reasons why Hasselblad would not do their homework and try not to get another competitor.
The good side on this fight is, that it will bring overall price levels down.
The sad (bad) side is, that it shows how even a technically excellent product can be dead before it even gets market share, just because of economics.
The only chance would have been that Leica had the S System ready for shipment at last PK 2008, and this to attractive prices. Each month they take longer for market introduction, the prices decrease and the possibilities for S System success diminish significantly.
Who wants to bet? Lets talk about this again in 8 months
stephengilbert
Active member
"Lets talk about this again in 8 months."
How likely is that? I think you mean "lets talk about this for eight months."
How likely is that? I think you mean "lets talk about this for eight months."
ptomsu
Workshop Member
As long as everybody plays well with others, we should talk about it - Leica is. ;>
You can't announce a product like the S2, say "here it is, here's our radical plan for it; here's how wonderful it is; here's the shows it's at - come see it (and hand it to LFI to talk-up); here's how easily it's going to steal Hassy & Phase's girlfriends, etc.; -- you just wait 8-10 months!" and NOT expect people to talk about it.
The S2's intended market segment, after years of stagnation, is now undergoing MASSIVE changes with every passing month. Accordingly, the inevitable new products, price lobotomies, Chapter 11s, mergers, etc., will get interested/opinionated/bored people with keyboards wondering how it will effect the S2's success.
Such is life in the WWW-age. The trick is to keep it at an adult level. So, far we're doing pretty well.
You can't announce a product like the S2, say "here it is, here's our radical plan for it; here's how wonderful it is; here's the shows it's at - come see it (and hand it to LFI to talk-up); here's how easily it's going to steal Hassy & Phase's girlfriends, etc.; -- you just wait 8-10 months!" and NOT expect people to talk about it.
The S2's intended market segment, after years of stagnation, is now undergoing MASSIVE changes with every passing month. Accordingly, the inevitable new products, price lobotomies, Chapter 11s, mergers, etc., will get interested/opinionated/bored people with keyboards wondering how it will effect the S2's success.
Such is life in the WWW-age. The trick is to keep it at an adult level. So, far we're doing pretty well.
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