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Where is the X1D ????

ddanois

Member
Not this time gents...B&H just confirmed that the camera arrived and is shipping out today for delivery tomorrow!
 
I'll try and do a wrap up of my weekend with the demo camera from the dealer. I've tried to take my time with the camera to give you all an unbiased view of the X1D. But I want to love this camera, so there may be a little bias in there. :eek: I'll give you a little background on what I expect to use it for and how it fits in with the other gear I have. For the past two years, I have not been shooting a lot of what I will be using this for. I've been working on a finishing a documentary film that I started 10 years ago about a baseball player that had a kidney transplant. It's been a special project and as we wrap up the post-production and look towards a release in April 2017, I will get back to shooting more. You can see the trailer for that here, https://vimeo.com/146931053. For the most part I will primarily be using it for portrait and beauty photography. Especially outside on location and when I travel. I have the Hassy H4X and IQ140, 100 2.2, 35-90, 1.7x, etc. that I have been using for most of that work. I love it, the true focus is amazing and in my opinion a must with only one focus point. But the whole setup is heavy and it's a CCD sensor, which in the studio is great, but it doesn't shoot well at the higher ISO's. My hit rate with the True focus is extremely high, most accurate camera I have used. But again, the whole setup is a beast and after an entire day of shooting, I'm physically exhausted. I also have neck and shoulder issues, as I'm sure a lot of photographers do, so a smaller, lighter option, with the same quality, is huge for me. I have not shot with the XF, but I've heard that the AF is great. But the size and weight of the camera is even larger, so for that reason, it's not for me. They have made great improvements and functionality and for a lot of people those have key features and the XF allows Phase to implement future improvements, which is GREAT. I also can't justify upgrading to an IQ150/250/350 for the price, to me the cost is just too much. Especially when you compare it to the cost of the X1D with the same sensor and wifi. I realize that it's not an apples to apples spec/feature comparison, but again this is from my perspective only. Other people's needs will be different.

I also have a Leica Q, which is more for fun and travel than work. This camera is a dream. Although, I can definitely use this as a behind the scenes camera and I could also see myself having this and the X1D together on a trip with a long lens on the X1D and the wide on the Leica Q. They'd both fit perfectly into my wife's purse!!!:ROTFL:

The other camera I use a ton is the Panasonic GH4. I shoot for some antique companies and while it's basic photography, it's steady money and the GH4 is great for that and the videos it produces are amazing quality. The stills while fine for the antiques aren't amazing for other photography. Hopefully the GH5 will improve on that end.

I did seriously think about getting the SL, but the lenses were too big and as great a camera as I think it is, I'd rather have the X1D with a lens for the same price or less. I also got a Leica S 006 to try out and while it's a great camera as well, I can't justify having two CCD sensor cameras. Onto the X1D!


While a lot of people will consider the phrase "Game Changer" marketing hype, I do think it is accurately used for this camera, when it's defined to the price point, size and weight of the camera. In my opinion, and it's a strong one on this topic, one of the main benefits of mirrorless cameras are the possibility of much reduced size and weight. My wife picked up the camera like it was no big deal and started taking pictures of our dog and then our friend took a few of us on new years. It's not this big, heavy, cumbersome, thing. It's an inviting camera to hold. This really can't be overstated enough. Because when traveling, it will be so much easier to take out all day, on hikes you will no longer be weighted down and exhausted form carrying around a heavy camera, huge lenses, and a heavy duty tripod. It has a trickle down effect of lightening everything you need. You could put this on a $10 mini tripod that they sell at the checkout at Adorama and it would support it, seriously I tried it last night.

The other is the having an EVF, which allows you to zoom into the image, at 100% and make sure focus is 100% accurate when you are shooting handheld. I would love an option to zoom in at 75% as well. And there also needs to be a digital focus scale, with infinity on one side and macro on the other, so you know which way you are going. It's very confusing when it's zoomed in, I assume you would get used to it over time. But it's so close that I went back and forth a bit. I would also like to be able to zoom in and use the AF. That was not an option right now.

(copied from previous post so it's all in one place)
EVF- for me, I'm happy with it. It again, could be like the SL, but it's not. It's large and allows you to do what you need to do and is accurate in terms of exposure/focus accuracy. This is on the one that I have at least. We have to keep in mind that there could be slight variations between cameras, but I've tested another demo camera for 15 minutes and it seemed to be the same. I agree with his take that if you shoot with glasses that you may have a learning curve to figure out the best way to use the evf. I don't wear them and one of the benefits of the EVF/eyecup is that your eye is so deeply seated in it that you feel immersed in the viewfinder. You also fit your eye into it slightly on an angle. This is not something you would normally even notice, but this leads to the downside that if you need to wear glasses you can't get your eye in there far enough to have it on an angle, which leads to his comments about losing 1/8th of the viewfinder. I'm pretty sure he means horizontally and it's so large that it shouldn't affect you a lot. but I can see it being frustrating. I did shoot with sunglasses on, Oakleys, which do have a curve to the lens and I only lost about 3% of the viewfinder that way. So if your glass lenses are curved, it will be easier. It will heavily depend on each persons individual glasses. With all that being said, the eye cup is plastic and it does look like it should be able to be removed. I'm certainly not going to try icon the demo camera. But my guess is that there will be a pretty easy solution to this either directly from Hasselblad or from a third party or custom solution.

I also tried it with gloves on. I didn't have any issues with any of the buttons or front or back wheels. The only thing that I can see being a little tricky is the pop up dial that changes the camera setting Modes, M, S, A, etc. With gloves it tends to want to be pushed back down, instead of turning. It still turned, but it's a little tricky.

TTL seemed to work well with the SB-800 on the hotshoe. Just a note, if you turn the flash on in TTL before you turn the camera on, the flash will show an error message. If the camera is on, it works fine. I also tried it with the Profoto Air controller and Profoto B1 Air. It was a little inconsistent, BUT I probably need to update the firmware. I honestly have never used the flat that way, so some aperture changes it adjusted the strobe setting and sometimes it didn't. My guess is that since it worked with the Nikon flash with TTl this is a firmware issue with the Profoto transmitter, which again, I have never updated the firmware on. It sync'd fine and didn't misfire at all.

Long exposure notes
-If you scroll past 1/15th of a second towards longer exposures, you have the option of T, B, and at the very longest 1 hour 8 minutes.
YOU DON'T GET A BLACK FRAME AFTER A LONG EXPOSURE

Image Quality
Lenses
-The two lenses that I have to test, the 45 & 90 are both great. As I mentioned before I have a set of Hasselblad H lenses and accessories. So I plan on using this with those via the H/X adapter as well. That's why I tried the Leica S 006, because it took all my H lenses with the adapter. I still need to test the Hassy/X adapter when it comes out. I'm hoping the AF works well via the adapter, but I would be fine using my 100 2.2 in MF via the adapter if I had to. I may decide for the 30mm lens over the 45 if it doesn't have much distortion when shooting people full length. Because the 45 is just not wide enough when shooting any kind of cityscape of landscape. Ideally they come out with a zoom sometime in late 2017, but that may be wishful thinking. Or if the adapter works great with AF, I may get a used H 24 or 28 and go with the 45.

Other notes:

Another benefit of the small size is that this to many people may not look like a "professional camera" I've been stopped on Malibu beach before and asked if we had a permit with my other setup. This is so small, that I don't think that would happen or it would be easy to talk your way out of it.

I'm still trying to figure out the best settings for the EVF when shooting IN STUDIO with strobes in terms of white balance. By studio, I'm assuming you are shooting at something like f/11 and 1/400 at ISO 100. And ambient is nothing near that. So if you had the exposure simulation (WYSIWYG) on, the EVF would be pitch black. It does lighten up to AF though. The GH4 has a great feature for this in that it recognizes there is a flash in the hotshoe, or flash transmitter, and gives you the correct preview white balance and exposure so you can see the image correctly in the EVF and then it also marks tthe white balance as flash on the RAW images. So this should be an easy firmware fix if they want to implement this. AND ONE I WOULD HIGHLY RECOMMEND! Note, this is different that in TTL, where you are just filling in with the light, so I'd just leave the exposure simulation on in that case.

One thing that I think Hasselblad should explore on this camera is an electronic shutter. I'm not sure why they have not been able to do that yet. I believe that Phase has it with the same sensor and I believe the GFX will have one. I think it would allow other lenses to be used and probably add more functionality to their own, although I'm not sure if I really need a higher shutter speed than 1/2000th. This would probably help other people out more than me, as I'm happily locked in to the Hassy ecosystem with the H & X lenses, but I always like people getting the most out of technology.

The power up thing isn't an issue to me. The batteries are so light, that once it's on, you can have an extra or two and pretty much leave it on.

Delay/Communication
It's clear to me that Hasselblad did not intend to have this camera delayed this long. The lens comes with a certificate in the box that says to register your lens with your camera by December 31st, 2016 for an extra 1 year warranty. So they clearly expected us to get our cameras and lenses prior to the end of 2016. It's too bad that there wasn't a press release send out saying that they are working to make the camera perfect before it ships. Really that's all it would have taken. I'd rather them wait and have it to that point, than ship it before it's ready. With that said, after realizing that it's much faster shooting only Raw, I think it's very close to being production firmware. If you need to shoot jpg as well as RAW, as it is, it's on the fence of being usable for anything fast paced, that's not landscape or still life, in my opinion. It just takes too long to come back to take the next shot. My guess is that this will be fixed very quickly in the next firmware update. And I really need to confirm this on more than just one camera. It could be just mine, but I'm guessing it's not. I don't think it's a huge deal, most people don't buy a camera like this to shoot jpgs, but I did want to point out the plusses and minuses. It really seems like all the specs they listed on the site are there expect for the compressed RAW and writing to different cards.

I guess my bottom line is that after having it for the weekend, if my dealer called me today and said hey, you camera is here, do you want to buy it? I'd say hell yes, and where's my X/H adapter?! For me it fits nicely in between what I have and adds a more functional (high ISO/EVF) and mobile camera that I can use with new and my existing lenses. It also has video that I didn't really get to test in depth. But my guess is that it will be decent. They do need to add focus peaking though. It's also in a platform that they can continue to upgrade via the firmware. So it will continue to keep getting better. I see that we have one shipping out today from B&H, which is great news! Interested to see if it's the same firmware as the current demos.

Happy Shooting!
Josh
 

hcubell

Well-known member
Then the heavens parted, and the angels began to sing! May the kvetching now begin in earnest.
:ROTFL:
 

D&A

Well-known member
Not this time gents...B&H just confirmed that the camera arrived and is shipping out today for delivery tomorrow!
Congrats and hope the X1D turns out to be most everything you've hoped it would be. Enjoy! :)

Dave (D&A)
 

D&A

Well-known member
A big thank you Josh for your nice write-up of your experiences and observations with the X1D. It's impossible to cover everything in a single weekend of use, but it's provides a lot of useful information to build upon. Nice!:clap:
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
Not this time gents...B&H just confirmed that the camera arrived and is shipping out today for delivery tomorrow!
Good to hear it!
And thank you, Josh, for your summation as well.

This seems like a good start to 2017, eh?

G
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
One thing that I think Hasselblad should explore on this camera is an electronic shutter. I'm not sure why they have not been able to do that yet. I believe that Phase has it with the same sensor and I believe the GFX will have one. I think it would allow other lenses to be used and probably add more functionality to their own, although I'm not sure if I really need a higher shutter speed than 1/2000th.
Minor correction, Phase One developed an electronic shutter feature for the 100mp Full-Frame 645 sensor, not the 50mp crop-sensor. As far as I'm aware the 50mp sensor does not have the appropriate underlying technology to implement an electronic shutter. So maybe something that could be added to an X1D Mark 2 (X2D) or other future mirrorless medium format cameras, but not in the cards for this first generation.
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
There's definitely a business school case study that can come from Hasselblad's poor handling of this situation. Maybe not as bad as an Adam Osborne scenario but still a pretty good example of how not to pre-announce before truly ready and also how not to treat your customers and retail channel IMHO.

Looking forward to seeing some real cameras taking real pictures! :thumbs:
 
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D&A

Well-known member
There's definitely a business school case study that can come from Hasselblad's poor handling of this situation. Maybe not as bad as an Adam Osbourne scenario but still a pretty good example of how not to pre-announce before truly ready and also how not to treat your customers and retail channel IMHO.

Looking forward to seeing some real cameras taking real pictures! :thumbs:
Wow, the "Osbourne Syndrome". Boy does that bring back memories. Can you imagine trying to download X1D files onto an Osbourne I? :ROTFL:

Dave (D&A)
 
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hcubell

Well-known member
Thanks, Josh, for this detailed report. Your analysis as to why the X1D is such a compelling choice for you is very similar to mine and that of many others who have either preordered the X1D or are waiting on the GFX. It's primarily about the form factor. However, I would add one other "feature" that is also critical to me: the weather proofing of the X1D and the lenses. Over the past 10 years, I have had to deal with a continuing succession of failures of medium format digital equipment in adverse conditions in remote areas. Hasselblad camera bodies and Phase One backs. These modular systems just aren't reliable if you have to deal with snow, rain, dust and sand. It's frustrating enough to have to deal with a 35 lb. pack of equipment, but the lack of reliability is just ridiculous.
I think the revolution is coming to medium format digital with the X1D and the GFX. I look at the size of the XF and the Blue Ring Schneider lenses and now, the V-Grip, and I just wonder what Phase has been thinking. And it's only going to get better as Hasselblad and Fuji refine these first generation products. Moreover, with the relatively high volume of sales that these cameras will produce, where do we think the money will go for state of the art sensor development by Sony in the future? For high volume products that use the cropped sensor, or for low volume products that use the full frame sensor?

One addendum about the delay in the shipment of X1Ds to end users. I do agree it is "unfortunate" and Hasselblad should have done a better job of managing expectations about the delays. However, we are talking about delays in the shipment of a new product. IMO, it is important to keep it in perspective. This is absolutely NOTHING compared to what I am reading about here and LuLa about the debacles involving the Leica S and the S lenses. The multiple delays with the X1D lead to disappointment and frustration that you can't get a really desirable new product as quickly as you were lead to believe you would get it. By comparison, Leica's problems with the S apparently involve serious defects in the lenses and the sensors that were actually sold to customers, the problems are widely known but not acknowledged by Leica, and Leica has a very poor service record in repairing or replacing cameras and lenses on a timely basis. This mess is a legitimate outrage.
 
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Happy to help, Looking forward to getting other people's perspectives as well!
How did you feel about the lenses and their relative slowness? You mentioned you would use it for portrait, which is what I want to use it for, but I am slightly concerned about achieving enough subject/background separation at the largest aperture on the 90mm (3.2).

Great little write-ups btw. Thanks for that :)
 

stephengilbert

Active member
Erik,

Is it you contention that Hassleblad has been shipping these cameras to many different people -- other than "friends and family" -- but that they're just not saying.

I guess the camera's so great that the thousands of happy customers are all out taking pictures and can't be bothered with posting.

You don't have to rebut every comment that is critical of Hasselblad. They can do so themselves. If they choose.

SG
 

D&A

Well-known member
I think for some time we are going to see mirrorless EVF MFD and conventional mirrored OVF MFD co-exist. Each has advantages and disadvantages in a number of key areas and of course personal preference by users. One is a more mature platform and the other will quickly grow and develop. This is no different that what exists with full frame 35mm Digital cameras currently of both types.

I don't know how accurate this is but someone on the Pentax forums mentioned that this first generation of Sony's 50mp 33x44mm cropped MF sensor, that a number of cameras now use such as in certain Phase and Hasselblad bodies as well as in Pentax and the upcoming Fuji GFX, has a readout time that is somewhat limiting for refresh rates of EVF's and that this readout rate also is involved and integrated with Af speed and it's associated sensors. This may be one of the reasons why Hasselblad had to go with the EVF currently used in the X1D and not something akin to the one used in the Leica SL (other than a possibility that its use is proprietary), since the SL uses a full frame 35mm sensor. Additionally this may be why the AF speed of these initial mirrorless MFD cameras appear somewhat slower than their conventional MFD counterparts.

If this is accurate, then a 2nd generation of the Sony 50mp MFD sensor may address these limitations and will accompany rapid development of the mirrorless MFD body and associated features/capabilities.

There were hints from Fuji that there was something "custom" about the sensor they will be using in the GFX and I wonder if that might be a modification that increases the sensors readout time and thus being able to take advantage of it? Just some food for thought.

Dave (D&A)
 
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algrove

Well-known member
Not this time gents...B&H just confirmed that the camera arrived and is shipping out today for delivery tomorrow!
Finally some positive news and you are close to me so I can see it in use perhaps.

Joe you should be next. I sure trust B&H got more than one since 12 December.
 
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Thanks, Josh, for this detailed report. Your analysis as to why the X1D is such a compelling choice for you is very similar to mine and that of many others who have either preordered the X1D or are waiting on the GFX. It's primarily about the form factor. However, I would add one other "feature" that is also critical to me: the weather proofing of the X1D and the lenses. Over the past 10 years, I have had to deal with a continuing succession of failures of medium format digital equipment in adverse conditions in remote areas. Hasselblad camera bodies and Phase One backs. These modular systems just aren't reliable if you have to deal with snow, rain, dust and sand. It's frustrating enough to have to deal with a 35 lb. pack of equipment, but the lack of reliability is just ridiculous.
I think the revolution is coming to medium format digital with the X1D and the GFX. I look at the size of the XF and the Blue Ring Schneider lenses and now, the V-Grip, and I just wonder what Phase has been thinking. And it's only going to get better as Hasselblad and Fuji refine these first generation products. Moreover, with the relatively high volume of sales that these cameras will produce, where do we think the money will go for state of the art sensor development by Sony in the future? For high volume products that use the cropped sensor, or for low volume products that use the full frame sensor?
Glad it helped describe the camera and that it seems to fit your needs. It does seem to be very weather proof. I don't know exactly how the buttons and wheels are protected, but by the looks of it, it is sealed. I can only assume that has been thought out. I obviously wasn't going to take the demo into the pouring rain this weekend, although there was plenty of rain to test it in! The lens fits very highly onto the camera,especially the 90, so it seems like it will be weather proof from that perspective. It's also very solidly made all the way around, both the camera and lens. Dust may be an issue because the sensor is literally at the lens mount, so it's not as protected as other cameras. But a quick blower will clean it easily. The battery compartment is even sealed and if you need to reset the camera you can pop the battery out a tiny bit without having to take it out completely.

Yes, I do think this is part of at the very least a major reshuffling, if not a full on revolution of medium format. I missed the Photo Expo, so I didn't get to see the Fuji in person. It's strange that they still haven't released the actual price yet. I would think that with the Hasselblad delays, they would have given a little more info, at the very least the price. But it still looks to me to be a larger camera than the X1D. But it may have some more functionality as well. It will be interesting to see them together once they are both released. And I think Hassy is crazy if they don't come to market eventually with the V1D concept and make that a hybrid still/cinema camera. :buggies: I wish there was a drool emoji...
 

D&A

Well-known member
Josh,

Fiji rumors says on Jan 19th, Fuji will be announcing details and probably pricing of the GFX. No doubt each system will have it's strengths but both I suspect will be extremely capable and desirable systems. Comparing the two will be of great interest.

Dave (D&A)

P.S. Louis, you're always one step ahead of me...LOL!
 
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